For Uranium

[Geminosity]

lol, I don't get personally insulted =3
I just feel sorry for the people who rant about this kinda stuff really.  I also have this misguided belief that somehow I might show them the other side of the arguement, but to be honest it's like expecting to convert someone from either side of a science vs religion debate; it's got almost zilch chance of happening -.-

One of the most depressing things is part of the human mental condition and something we're all subject to.  In order to survive in our environment we stick things in mental boxes for quick classification.  This is why if you stick your hand in fire and it hurts you're gonna have a hell of a time trying to make yourself do it again; fire just logged in the 'omgpain' box =P
Course, this extends futher from the physical world to everything in our lives and this is where it hurts things that go against our 'traditions' like anime.
In most western cultures we have our saturday morning cartoons as we go through childhood, they're fun, silly and full of amusement like samurai pizza cats, transformers, thundercats, Dungeons & Dragons, etc.
Problem is, all these are very much tailored towards kids and a lot of misguided people in society have this oddity of believing age means anything outside of laws and being 1 step closer to the end of your life.  Ask your parents to join in on a game and they'll mostly turn you down, why?  because they have the enforced belief 'theyre too old for that'.  It's the same misguided ideology behind kids trying to act older than they are, rushing to grow up and letting the precious experience of childhood slip from their grasp all the faster.
As a result, a lot of people can't accept anime; they have trouble letting themselves even watch it, letalone accept they can like it.  Cartoons are for kids and being a kid is baaaaad.  oh so bad... god forbid people remember how to have fun without the hollow gratifications they try to use to fill their 'adult void'.  Rather than play fun games with friends they go imbibe alcohol, smoke, experiment with drugs, sex and a host of other not-so-admirable activities; things that allow an escape.  Eventually a lot of people can no longer remember how to have true fun without them.  Course, this is a generalisation but that's what this thread is about right? ^~

Of course... there's other reasons not to like anime but when someone shouts 'grow up' it's usually one of the parts behind their reasoning, maybe even just on a subconsious level =P
Simpsons thrives because it's comedy by the way... cartoons are also allowed to be 'adult' entertainment if they're funny, almost forgot about that loophole in the classification law =3

Heck, I could write a small dissertation on why people might not 'get' anime from dislike of things they don't understand (japan's culture is very alien from the usual western ones we're all so used to) to social conditioning.  But I'm not one to just so easily fall into the human trap.  I'll make generalisations for arguements like these just because it suits my purposes but they're something I try and fight against tooth and nail otherwise, both in my self and in others.  Let's try to evolve our thinking a little for once huh? =P

I might be coming off as having thought about this too much or read into it too much but it's just another example of how people need to really broaden their scopes.  I'm guilty of this as much as anyone, I can't claim to be totally open-minded but damned if I'm not aware of what's going on and want to change it ^^;

If you don't understand something, learn about it.  If something repulses you, educate yourself on why.  If you can't see from the other side of the fence, use your imagination.  Ranting about other people's interests doesn't solve anything.
Oh... and always assume that you don't know enough about something.  The minute anyone claims to 'have seen enough' or 'know enough' or even 'know all' about anything is the minute they become truely ignorant.  You can talk from your own experiences, you can make educated guesses but you can never know 'enough' or 'all' of everything.

[Leaderz0rz]

he minute anyone claims to 'have seen enough' or 'know enough' or even 'know all' about anything is the minute they become truely ignorant.

i like that statement  

[Dubbilex]

*claps*  Very well said, Gem




You know, there's a point where there's just nothing to be said.  How 'bout we just drop this anime thang, allright?  

To uranium:  No need to get all Maddox-ey on us.  :huh:  

To leaderz0rz: No need fro you to get so defensive - Uranium can come on strong, but just don't sweat it  ^^

Oh yeah.  And for the record, Maddox totally sucks, uranium  




So Uhhh.....Janet Jackson's breast!  Discuss!  :p

[Hida Tsuzua]

Flashoxr!  

Gem, very good post.  One thing I would like to add is that not everyone is going to like anime no matter how many shoots they give it.  Like all things hobby related, it's a taste.  And there have been black men in anime.  They are somewhat rare however (there was a black man in a Japanese camera/car commanical I saw the other day though).

[Uranium - 235]

in other news, you've watched more anime than most ppl, no, nix that, ANY person i know. you are clearly a closet japanophile uranium. stop trying to hide it.

Ha ha right The reason I've seen so much is so I can smack smacktards like leadz0rz down when they say 'you haven't seen any'.

BTW Lead, I never insulted anyone by saying 'you like anime you are stupid' until your whiney post came up. And I did it to you because you piss me off.

@ Gem:

Something something (too lazy to find original quote) educate yourself why, don't ranomdly rant on people's interests.

Every single point I brought up I had a reason for, and judging from the replies, I'm firmly believing either no one has actually read this whole thread, INCLUDING the topic, or there's a major problem with memory loss in the world.

I never said 'I hate anime because it's japanese'. I hate anime because it's usually a poorly done crappy job of writing, it's downright offensive to me that I'm supposed to be entertained by it. Okay, you want to do a show about a guy with a gun that hunts an alien, fine. I could work with that. But then they try to turn it into a ROMANCE STORY (Which in most anime's is 100% the same: Guy likes girl, girls likes other guy, first guy trys to be noticed, other guy is a psycho, first guy almost kills him but has cliche 'feelings' moment where he gasps a lot and has poorly drawn sweat rolling down his head, doesn't kill him, girl falls for first guy, the end). Or they try to put COMEDY in it (Way to go, Trigun, that might have been decent were it not for the 'comic relief' that wouldn't make a clown in an oxygen bar laugh).

The reason it IRRITATES me so much is that so many people actually like it. It's the same reason it pisses me off that people don't read books anymore. You try to have an intellectual moment with a guy that's never read 'Atlas Shrugged' or you try to have a conversation about movies with a girl that's completely mentally engrossed by flash-in-the-pan writing. Instead of a story that's drawn out, has plot twists, susense, and a great ending, anime has to appeal to short attention spans with crappy gimmicks, poorly done and badly placed jokes, and a watered down plot because most people are probably too stupid to undrestand the whole thing.

Let's compare Trigun to Big O (season 2... never saw season 1). I have actually watched the entire series of both (lies, actually most of it).

Trigun: Bad comedy, usually placed in such a way that it ruins the moment somehow, random tangent shows and moments, pointless 'plot hooks' that don't actually advance the story, and filled with plenty of 'this is :Ding STUPID' moments. Okay, so he can shoot really well. Well I always figured he was a cyborg or something. But he IS flesh and blood, he does need water to survive, and at the end of every episode, he walks through a desert for three years in a red trenchcoat with no food or water to the next town, or some crap. And how did it end? A DBZ-esque scenario where they fling power balls at each other and cancel them out. Vash kills brother. The end. That was no ending. It was pretty damn cliche you ask me. Good guy wins in the end. No final twists, no summarization of plot (or lack thereof), just *bang* he's dead, I win! Man I didn't see THAT coming...

Another thing, in every episode they tried to be cute and make some horrible 'cat thing' cameo. The cat wasn't cute. It was stupid. But ^^ty little jokes like that are classic of BAD WRITING (I know, because I've done it myself) They do it because the rest of the show sucks so much, they need to hang onto every shred of cohesive reason to continue the season they can. But people that like anime are so illiterate, they can't RECOGNIZE bad writing. No matter what the plot, no matter how badly it is done, it's good, it's great, it's your LIFE AND BLOOD, because it's ANIME!

Big O: Silly looking robots aside, this anime actually had a plot that was advanced every episode, or enough. The comedy, while not very common, was relatively weak, keeping with the noir feeling. I didn't get the plot (probably because I missed several episodes), but I don't actually consider this a bad anime.

If you ever wrote a book, in english, and published it, based on a slightly modified version of Inuyasha, it'd suck. No one would like it. The plot would change so god damn much, and go in so many stupid tangents, it'd look like a 14 year old remedial english student wrote it. But you make googly drawings by some guy with a name longer then a semi and instantly everyone likes it.

Why? Because the writings good? I asked this somewhere else and the reason I got for liking the writing is because it's "suspenseful..." "... funny..." "... entertaining..."

Imagine if Seinfeld was about a detective who solved murders. Okay, no, that would suck. But for some reason it would be okay because it's anime.

[Leaderz0rz]

auctaly Vash didn't kill Knives, he was still alive, he carried him away to take care of him becuase he believed he wasn't really bad in heart. So there you go, Its brother against brother, good vs evil, and in the end the good cared enough to try to save the evil, and Trigun is funny rather you find it that way or not, I don't find the Simpsons funny at all, but a ton of people do, does that mean the Simpsons is stupid and a bunch of crap becuase I don't find it funny? no it just means I don't like it.

nime has to appeal to short attention spans with crappy gimmicks, poorly done and badly placed jokes, and a watered down plot because most people are probably too stupid to undrestand the whole thing.

so most people are now to stupid to understand anime? Rurorini Kenshin is 96 episodes plus a movie and 3 ovas, it has a very interesting plot, its funny, it has romance, action, instead of sticking to one genre of entertainment it offers it all. And I don't know of anyone who didn't understand it. Maybe your the one who doesn't understand anime and in turn label it "stupid"

[BrianL03]

Uranium's just upset because someone else has the keys to his underwear drawer.

~_^

Leaderz0rz, you're doing a great job. Just hope you don't give up like I did long ago... Gem's got a point... arguing with Uranium about this topic is like trying to convince the rock to roll. (You just gotta push it off a cliff and hope no one dies in the process ~_^)

[Leaderz0rz]

i get a kick out of arguing with people, its jolly good fun

[Geminosity]

lol!!! wait! wait... this is funny XD

anime fans are illiterate fanatics with a short attention span?  You say that having got the ending of a series completely wrong therefore immediately missing the point of who the main character is, what he's about and his true plight?
Considering that the vast majority of anime fans prefer a good sub over a dub the 'illiterate' comment was totally out of place; even sticking it back in it's context illiteracy hasn't got poop to do with the ability to see the worth of a story.  Oh and concerning whether anything is 'good' or not is almost always a matter of perspective.  If you expect to take 1000 random people to movie and for them to all universally agree the film was crud or good you'll be horribly dissapointed =3

I go back to my old post and point to the 'dont understand it' part.  People often get really angry, mostly out of frustration, when a lot of people like something and they can't jump on the bandwagon.  In the end they just conclude that either because it's not for them or that they didn't find the right ones for them to enjoy it that the whole thing (Sticking it in one giant box again) is bad and those who like it are misguided.  You'll then take on the role of those you find in science vs religion arguements where you try and 'save' the people who don't agree with your viewpoint =P

Funnily enough, I still haven't seen you mention a studio ghibli title... Laputa: Castle in the sky, Nausicaa of the wind valley, Kiki's delivery service, Princess Monoke and a few others.
You might... you know, if it doesn't physically hurt you too much to watch anime =P  ...try patlabour.  It's deadly serious, takes a good attention span to truely appreciate and doesn't have anyone having 'unrealistic breakdowns'.  The romance element is pretty much missing too so no worries about love triangles for you ~rolls eyes~

I won't defend just anything because it's anime... unlike yourself I know that anime isn't just 1 all-encompassing thing.  Like I said so many posts ago it's just another form of media.  Ranting against anime is like trying to categorise all films in one pile from aliens to 9 angry men (black and white piece, takes place almost entirely in a jury room.  It might be an old film but the plot is interesting and the characters have some depth.  Makes for good watching =3 ).

If you truely want to see bad plotlines, gimmicks and cruddy romance just try the following... Deep impact.  My my... it's a film =o
Bad anime?  once again, it's only personal opinion but I'd put down riding bean as one I didn't really enjoy much at all and definitely not one I'd be inclined to see again.  Genocyber wasn't very good either from what i remember ^^;
I guess one of my problems is that I can't say an anime is outright bad.  Why? because if I don't like the plot I can usually sit back and admire the animation, the artwork.  I'm not a photographer so in real-films camera-angles and stuff are just something i take for granted.  But in animation, when there's nothing else to focus on I can usually take the time to appreciate the drawing style and character design.  Therefore from even the worst anime's I can still draw some fun =3

Actually... there IS one anime I would say is downright awful but I'd probably be skinned alive by it's followers and it was kinda redeemed by it's more recent incarnation.  Vampire Hunter D.  The first one had some truely cruddy art and the plot had me sitting in disinterest for the most part, but Vampire Hunter D bloodlust is great!  Can't win them all huh? =P

Just to correct you where you messed up, vash doesn't usually take 3 years between episodes and in your vehement hate of anime you might've missed that vash is carrying a huge tank thing on his back which probably contains water and food scavenged from the last town he was in.
Trigun also features plot-twists (wolfwood for just one easy example) and doesn't have a summary because they figure you were intelligent enough to work out what happened and paid enough attention during the series to round it off (funnily enough, in most anime they assume the audience has an IQ and don't explain everything down to the finest detail with big neon signs like many western films I won't even begin to mention).

oh and 'atlas shrugged'... I tend more towards horror and fantasy books so I've never read it buuuut if you're looking for intellectual discussion you shouldn't need a book to do it around.  The sign of true intelligence is insight that has foundation in experience and personal thought.  Not that there's anything wrong with reading 'omg deep' books but don't use them as the defining point of 'intellectual discussion' huh?  And if you're trying to talk to girls who aren't into the same kind of story structures as yourself I hark back again to one of the posts I already did in this thread mentioning about looking for the right things in the right places... you don't go see romance movies if you don't like romance so why try to start conversations on movies with someone who's tastes differ so radically from your own that it offends you? =3
You seem to be riding some high and mighty horse where everything should be 'omgintelligencehaxor!' or 'omgmaturityhaxor!'.  I suggest getting out of the saddle and putting your feet on the ground ^^;
Ultimately, if you want to be truely intelligent or wise about anything you have to be able to see both sides of a situation.
Notice how I'm not just sitting here saying 'omg you are so stupid and stuff that isn't anime sucks'?  I'm well aware that just because something is anime or japanese it isn't always good, unfortunately you seem to have went and based your own view on anime (see, I'm not mentioning the japanese part here, I do read your posts =P ) in what problems you can find in a few titles (you've mention 3-5 titles in all in this thread so far... that's hardly extensive =3 ).

Instead of getting angry, try one of two simple things...

a) decide that anime is just not for you.  Others might like it but that's not important... you don't like it therefore whenever anime comes into a conversation you can gracefully depart, wait patiently while the conversation takes it's natural course eventually coming to something different or try to change the subject without going into a raging rant =3

b) decide that perhaps you've judged it on titles you would never really have watched if you'd known what you were looking for.  You're the second 'omg anime is not serious enough' person I've seen and they admitted that they did infact enjoy some of the studio ghibli works and patlabour.  If you go into a restraunt and keep on ordering the chicken dishes but you hate chicken are you honestly going to think the food is good or even have a good, rounded understanding of the tastes the cuisine of the place has to offer?


When you think about it really... life isn't that hard or complex at all, it's just people who make it that way ^~

[lolfighter]

What have I done...

Considering the results, I'm not sure I'd have opened this thread if I'd known. Oh well, can't be helped now. Carry on, but keep the peace.

Mmm, Deep Impact...
Have to see that one some day. Utterly cruddy movies have a tendency towards being interesting in their own way.

[Leaderz0rz]

:high fives gem: You go girl!/guy! You said alot of things i've been meaning to say, but just don't put them into text.

[Geminosity]

lol leador silly =3

anyways, that '9 angry men' I mentioned... um... wrong number it's 12 lol.  Still a great old film though ^^

[Dubbilex]

^^

I was wondering what the crap you were talking about, gem.   :rolleyes:

[esuna]

[INFINITIUM] "Patlabor", never "Patlabour" [/INFINITIUM]

[Ulatoh]

all the name calling...

ignorant, stupid, blah blah blah....

Uranium, make your argument without namecalling, and without generalizations



And because this is all a matter of opinion, your opinion can be summed up in 4 words.

"I don't like anime."

Thats really all you have to say on the topic, everything else is jsut a more detailed look at your opinion

[Hida Tsuzua]

U-235 does have good points though.  While anime is a nice genre, it is nowhere the be-all of entainment or animation in general and that's something everyone needs to keep in mind.

[Smoke Nova]

Of course, hating it blindly is something he should not partake of.


Ever watch Family Guy? Futurama?  Simpsons? RoadRunner? BugsBunny?

All anime.  Not neccesarily Japanese in origin, but still anime.




And for a plot-heavy anime, try Hellsing or .Hack//Sign.

[Hida Tsuzua]

Of course, hating it blindly is something he should not partake of.


Ever watch Family Guy? Futurama?  Simpsons? RoadRunner? BugsBunny?

All anime.  Not neccesarily Japanese in origin, but still anime.

I'm going to have to agrue with that.  While they along with anime fall under the term Cartoons (underneth "Moving Pictures"),  they are not themselves anime.  There is little doubt that there are anime influences in the later cartoons mentioned, I would not call them anime due to both origin and sylistic reasons (especially with the Merry Melodies examples).

[BrianL03]

I'm going to say something that might confuse some people, especially if they've read my prior posts.

I partially agree with the comic on the first page.



Now that I've given you all a chance to let that sink in, let me explain why:

What I hate is the insane popularization of it, how it's becoming basically a "pop culture" type deal. Where if something has anime, the clueless consumer goes out and buys it regardless of what it's actually like.

Two examples:

T-Mobile anime-inspired ads for their messaging celly.

Cartoon Network's "Teen Titans".



Now, the first, I was kind of actually interested in, because of a) the animation of the ad, and b) how anime had actually became something of a popular enough thing that business was now using it as a way of advertising products.

But the more I thought about reason B, the more I realized how much I didn't like the ad. They were using the appeal of anime to try and lure in consumers who are just interested in the anime aspect of it. They were using one of my pasttimes as a marketing ploy (I know the reason sounds stupid, but that's my opinion of why I didn't like it. Feel free to put up tons of more examples, asking why I don't agree with those. Chances are I actually will, but for now, whatever. This is an anime thread).

For "Teen Titans", I just saw the show last night, and dear GOD I was disturbed out of my mind. Now, I did some research, and I found out that the producer of this show was actually Japanese, and was inspired by anime to do it, but I think WB might have been egging him on to over-anime-ize it. In no anime have I seen (and that's a fair deal, young children's cartoons included) have so many anime-type gimmicks (the anime smilies, blushing, sweatdrops, bubbles around the mouth for sickness, etc etc) occured in such a bloody hecking short time! I'm talking seconds here! In the anime I remember watching, they might have something like that every other minute or so... but not second! >_<



Honestly, I make it a point to know about the anime series, either through personal prior viewings, or through reliable friend's comments about the series, before I go out and purchase stuff from it (unless it's a gift for someone else who I know enjoys the stuff I'm buying).

For instance, there's no way in hell I'd buy anything "Goldenboy" or "Ping Pong Club" related, same with "Dragonball Z". I've seen all those, and was seriously disturbed (even though they're anime. Not every anime fan have to like all aspects of it, nor does every Japan-hater have to hate it all). I won't touch those with a 50 and a half foot long pole.

I guess you couldn't technically call me an otaku, per se, and I'm not fanatically loyal to all anime. I mean, I will support it on measures, but if I see someone who's going ga-ga over any little Japanese-related thing, I'll back away slowly, and then run.

[Smoke Nova]

Hida, my local video store classifies Family Guy as anime.

They have it under the entire Animated section, along with Patlabor, Hellsing, Perfect Blue and The Mind's Eye.