Author Topic: 3.0 opinions  (Read 12349 times)

March 10, 2005, 04:03:25 AM
Reply #60

SwiftSpear

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Last I checked the marine win/loss from LM is still dropping dramatically, and many of the regs are frustrated with the marine game to the point that if they are forced rine by random they will just fudge the game.  Eject spamming has trippled in occurance, and pit suicides seem to be on the rize as well.  Its really annoying as for the marines to have any chance of winning at all they need EVERY player on thier team at full effort, thus the game is screwed for everyone if one player decides to pit jump the whole round.

the alternitive isn't much better however, where every reg just stacks alien every game because it is funner.
<------OOOooooOOOoo, Hyperlink!
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March 10, 2005, 11:46:59 AM
Reply #61

Necrosis

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I alien every round unless I know at least 4 regs on the marine team.

I don't see this as unfair, rather more like ruthless practicality. You need a decent comm and 3 other decent players in order to get decent odds.
Necrosis killed Holy_Devil with pistol
Holy_Devil: cheater

March 10, 2005, 02:40:22 PM
Reply #62

confused!

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i dont think it is quite as bad as you all seem to think. The marine game has changed. the days of ninja phase gates to hives are over.  


Now, the game is all about map control.  

the marines need to realize that instead of the old way on teching up and falling back, one has to cordon off map sectons and fortify them.  A single alien chomping rts can is a problem as the aliens all climb the tech tree faster now and with out rts teh marines are getting out teched. The marines on the ground need to be aware of this. The single skulk who has gotten past the blockade can cause havok just like a crazed horde of mongols.

unless the marines can achieve rapid decisive victory they have to contain the aliens ability to tech. Instead of laughing as the fades own rts the marines need to realize that the only way to achieve parity is to take alien rts down and the ge theirs up.

if you loose a game try to figure out what went wrong.

Even with the skulk problems i alluded to in my previous post, the marines still are expanding during the early game. nodes are being capped and the tech tree is being climbed.  The marines take a hive or two and then they are rolled back.  

the alines genrally do this with seeming ease. However, the alien team is very vulneralbe during this period. many games are decided during this window between 3 and 7 minutes.

my expericen is that during this time the teams that ultimately lose are inactive.  they take a low agresssion approach  and try to hold and tech. the problem is that the weak links in their defenses are found and exploited.

this is teh time the fades are coming out, the second hive is going down and the first hmgs  are entering play. the marines need to use their advantage in firepower to prevent the first two.  nodes, hives, and alien players need to die during this time. this is the single most important period in the game. if the marines can continue agressively the game is theirs.

as tehy say the best defense is a good offense. remember that.

and now a shower, i smell like a bagel.
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March 10, 2005, 07:49:57 PM
Reply #63

Rath

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I go rine every round (lag makes skulking evil) and today I saw a couple interesting things.

On certain maps there are some very long corridors.  If a couple good rines sit at a couple of them and camp, skulks have a very tough time getting past.  It has to be done early game when they dont have leap of course and wont work if theres sensory.  

Another thing I saw work earlier was building a turret factory at a central res node really early.  I got kicked in the middle of a game, but when I came back, the rines were about to win.
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March 11, 2005, 08:00:15 AM
Reply #64

Mr.Bill

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time to turrent farm off stratigicly important rts in the map!

 
Hows my comming? PM!

For the win

March 11, 2005, 10:30:52 AM
Reply #65

Niteowl

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The game is, ironically, must be played both faster (rines must move out QUICKLY and dominate the ground) and slower (turrets to contain the aliens and hold position).

I think I'll start using farms more now, unfortunately :S
"I don't have to know an answer, I don't feel frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in a mysterious universe without any purpose, which is the way it really is as far as I can tell. It doesn't frighten me."
-Richard Feynman

March 11, 2005, 10:36:50 AM
Reply #66

lolfighter

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Yah. Skulks can't hold a candle to turrets if there are no blind spots on the tf. What can take down a turret farm is a coordinated skulk rush or a Fade, only the latter of which is common. A PG more than doubles the usefulness of a turret farm, too.

Also, a turret farm of four or five turrets is almost impossible to get past alive for a skulk. If placed in a chokepoint, you effectively deny skulks access to that part of the map. Gorges sometimes lame up chokepoints, and it works rather well.
For example, one of the more successful (pub) tactics on tanith back in the days of b5:
OCs with gorge support in central access tunnels. This would completely cut off the most popular route to cargo, forcing marines to go through chemical transport and acidic resolution instead. Either that, or mount a coordinated assault on central access, one that would often fail anyway because the gorge would cry for help. Even a few skulks were able to wreak havoc on marines busy with OCs.

It's also much harder to get the alien team organised to take down a turret farm in a chokepoint, if that chokepoint is not in or directly outside a hive. Getting aliens to respond to a possible siege or to clear out a turret farmed hive is not that hard, but try to convince your team that the turret farm in a chokepoint somewhere is a priority, and you'll see how sluggish the alien warmachine sometimes reacts.

All this has to be backed up by PGs, though. Any turret farm can be taken down by attrition if there's nobody near to weld damaged structures and replace destroyed turrets, and you cannot rely on marines getting there on foot alive. There's no guarantee that they'll make it.

I believe that confused is right: The game is all about map control now. Inherently the marines are at a disadvantage because they cannot use the same shortcuts (i.e. vents) as the aliens and move slower. The marines have to compensate this through a phase network. Some of the strongest marine games I've seen in b6 relied on a good phase network. Marines were able to get almost anywhere in twenty seconds or less by taking a phase to a nearby location. Not having to walk the map as much also greatly reduces the chance of getting ambushed. In games where aliens go sensory first, this can be combined with a network of observatories, to greatly reduce the advantages of cloaking, especially the SCs cloaking radius, which is extremely potent in combination with sof or focus.

I realise that commanding just got harder, and that I'm asking of the commanders what I could never do myself, but please: Don't give up. And know that I have the utmost respect for a good commander.

March 11, 2005, 11:36:42 AM
Reply #67

Niteowl

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And know that I have the utmost respect for a good commander.
[snapback]43000[/snapback]
Dang.. so close!:(
"I don't have to know an answer, I don't feel frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in a mysterious universe without any purpose, which is the way it really is as far as I can tell. It doesn't frighten me."
-Richard Feynman

March 11, 2005, 03:35:51 PM
Reply #68

JohnTheGarbageman

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Guys, if you cant hit the skulks check your configs. By default, your rates have been reset. Fix them.  For my freaking sanity. Please.
[snapback]42904[/snapback]

Its a server problem. I've got different demos of B6 just going live and of servers that have been running a few hours - on one you'll see clean hit registry (well as clean as it was in Beta5), on the other you can merrily observe every single kill being about ~2 seconds late and all sorts of weirdness, with the precise same rate settings.

As far as 3.0 Final is concerned, alot of the changes are just silly. Most marine wins we see stem from really, really bad alien teamplay lacking in the essentials. Sure its nice for the ole ego to take credit for those wins, but the build itself is still unbalanced.

March 11, 2005, 04:23:11 PM
Reply #69

Necrosis

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Thats those banana bullets that go round corners.
Necrosis killed Holy_Devil with pistol
Holy_Devil: cheater