Overly Chatty Penguins

The Ready Room => General => Topic started by: SwiftSpear on March 05, 2005, 04:11:38 PM

Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: SwiftSpear on March 05, 2005, 04:11:38 PM
So, what are your thoughts about 3.0 while the NS forums are down (and probably will be down for quite a while the way that usually works out)?
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: AzubahF on March 05, 2005, 04:18:44 PM
I'm looking forward to this next version very much.  I never bothered constie playtesting or whatever... I left that up to the smart people :D   ... but yeah, from the changelog it looks pretty nice.  There's a lot of things that I've thought should be a part of NS for a while, like free alien upgrades, gestating to skulk for free.  Nothing on the changelog looks like anything that's a bad idea to me.

I'm wondering about the innate alien regen though, whether it makes a sound like it does when you have the regen upgrade and/or are healing at DCs.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: moofree on March 05, 2005, 04:18:48 PM
Haven't played final yet, but played the playtest... only got like 5 full games in the many weeks I played it, but they were all...
Two words...
Freakin Awesome

I haven't had this much fun since 2.0

AzubahF: Innate regen is silent
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: SwiftSpear on March 05, 2005, 04:21:20 PM
Um... everyone knows that V3.0 is out already right?  I just played it and that is why I am curious as to what other people think...  We have been talking about the changelog for ever, now play the game and give me opinions on the REAL DEAL!

[edit] and the innate regen does not make a sound, it is silent.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: AzubahF on March 05, 2005, 04:22:14 PM
ah... that's pretty cool.  so you can still be a stealthy little skulk and heal a little.

edit:  oh hehe, no I didn't know it was out.  guess i've got some downloading to do
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: moofree on March 05, 2005, 04:22:32 PM
Dammit lemme get home from work first... 40 minutes.

AzubahF: Yeah it's great. Aliens have needed this for a long time.

It's a shame that there were problems with the new hitbox code... I was really looking forward to that.
Hear it's gonna be in 3.1 though

My favorite changes are 1)Sieges not dealing damage to players (especially with FF on) and 2)Turrets and OCs prioritizing players over buildings.
Those two things just got annoying.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: SwiftSpear on March 05, 2005, 04:23:37 PM
haha, sure.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Manta on March 05, 2005, 04:34:10 PM
Okay, I haven't gotten a chance to play a full ns_ game yet, so I'll just give my opinion on combat and the details:

I like the innate regen. It gives you that extra little chance to get away if you slip up. Also, it makes me feel like I'm playing a zerg. :>

I love that fades can finally blink off ladders. I like the pancaking limit, though it was fun to try that before. I think it's good that hives always show up now.

The missing resource bar kind of bugs me, but it's no big deal to me. I do like that reload animations finally show up. It was weird at first, but it's neat to see the marine reloading, giving you the opportunity to run in for the kill.

I don't think combat has been affected that much, but I hear that aliens are more powerful in classic.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: SwiftSpear on March 05, 2005, 04:39:08 PM
Quote
Okay, I haven't gotten a chance to play a full ns_ game yet, so I'll just give my opinion on combat and the details:

I like the innate regen. It gives you that extra little chance to get away if you slip up. Also, it makes me feel like I'm playing a zerg. :>

I love that fades can finally blink off ladders. I like the pancaking limit, though it was fun to try that before. I think it's good that hives always show up now.

The missing resource bar kind of bugs me, but it's no big deal to me. I do like that reload animations finally show up. It was weird at first, but it's neat to see the marine reloading, giving you the opportunity to run in for the kill.

I don't think combat has been affected that much, but I hear that aliens are more powerful in classic.
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IMO aliens are godly powerful in classic 3.0... but I don't know, we will see how things work when people settle into the game more... I'm sure there will be tricks.

And bah, I even forgot to use the alien flashlight all game when I was playing  >_<  >_<
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Hesitation on March 05, 2005, 04:43:29 PM
Lots of alien buffs, which I'm definatley enjoying. Free upgrades, free regen, and the flashlight are the headliners for this patch if you ask me.

The flashlight is friggin awesome. I took advanced hive sight so many times, and this new global incarnation rules.

What free upgrades REALLY means is skulks will actually get them! I mean honestly, nobody really upgrades skulks, but now I get them every single life. The difference is more than noticable (SoF/Cara/Silence=laffs). And it might just be me, but the upgrade gestation time seems faster.

I still have a problem with the observatory in general, but whatever. Mostley good!
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: duherman on March 05, 2005, 04:44:25 PM
That new map ns_eon is HUGE!!!. I also like the new sound when you reload or shoot the lmg.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: 2_of_8 on March 05, 2005, 04:50:34 PM
Upgrade time is faster.

I think that at this moment, Aliens are stronger than Marines because the Marines haven't adapted yet. New strategies will have to form instead of the usual ones.

I like all the little fixes to game mechanics and whatnot; really helps.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Decimator on March 05, 2005, 05:34:54 PM
I really like ns_eon.  It just seems to be a wonderful map.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Manta on March 05, 2005, 05:37:57 PM
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That new map ns_eon is HUGE!!!. I also like the new sound when you reload or shoot the lmg.
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Yeah, that map really is big. I like it though. I just hope it doesn't go the way of the ns_altair.

The LMG shooting sound is old; it's the original from before b5. I do like the new sounds though, with the exception of the jetpack. It makes it sound like my sound is lagging or my sound card is melting. Argh.

The flashlight is useful, but I don't think it will help so much that it unbalances anything. I think aliens should be the ones who can ambush in the dark, anyway. It just kind of adds that ominous feeling you get in the ns_hera maintenance corridor, where it's all dark.

I think the reason people feel that aliens are overpowered is mainly because of the amount of small tweaks that go for the aliens. If there is one change that truly buffs the aliens, though, I'd say it goes to the free upgrades. Skulks with silence all the time? Carapace? Focus?

Question: Does partial cloaking (you know, 30% or whatever when you're moving quickly) show up on MT?
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Eggman on March 05, 2005, 07:53:22 PM
I guess I haven't posted here yet... but I will now. ^^

Eon has a cooler atmosphere than altair, IMO. Haven't gotten to play the new altair, though.
The LMG sounds like an old tommy gun or something to me... it'll grow on me though.
Oh, speaking of the maintenance corridor, there's a weld point now so it's not so dark down there. ^^ Not that you usually spend a lot of time in that little area, but hey.
I don't believe partial cloaking shows up on MT, though I haven't tried it.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Manta on March 05, 2005, 08:02:17 PM
I believe the LMG sound is the old one from before b5. I like it.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: A Boojum Snark on March 05, 2005, 09:44:08 PM
I've just redownloaded b5 to get some of the old files...

New LMG clip-out sound when reloading is horrible. It has this one spot that sounds like a parasite-hit, very very annoying.
Also, the new medpack model, although it looks nice, doesn't match the rest of the TSA stuff in any damn way. Would look better in a different game.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Necrosis on March 05, 2005, 10:13:34 PM
Aliens seem to be doing a bit better. The only thing is so far I've seen an awful lot of shotty pg rushes.


SC is definitely very viable right off the bat. Innate regen means you can chip away at most marine locations, as well as benefit from a nearby SC.

No siege damage to players is AWESOME. Gorges can healspam hives with impunity. The little hive icon that shows health of the hive is also useful for gauging how bad a threat is.. and is terrifying when you see it go from fine to red in half a second due to rampant shotty rushing.

All in all very happy with the new release!
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Dark on March 05, 2005, 11:19:28 PM
3.0 is great so far except for the fact that the map setup (default) is like constant combat  :wacko:
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Malevolent on March 05, 2005, 11:39:05 PM
Damn, I forgot it came out today. But I've been busy all day or out. Tomorrow I'll check it out.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: duherman on March 06, 2005, 12:54:36 AM
It also seems like the JP has much more power in it. As in more energy.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Iconoclast on March 06, 2005, 01:28:38 AM
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It also seems like the JP has much more power in it. As in more energy.
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Probably just a placebo effect..

The one thing that I really like is the new eclipse, I've been playing it alot in b5 recently and those doors have been driving me more and more crazy. All the RT movements on the map have made it alot more alien friendly too (especially the maint rt).
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Niteowl on March 06, 2005, 03:29:14 AM
I find it's about 5 times more frantic to comm now. And a ton more fun to skulk with free upgrades. Oh, and onos fallling sounds and pistol reloading sounds are choice! Seems to be aliens winning by a healthy margin, no?

Er what else, oh, OT, ns_orbital is a pretty sweet balanced map.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: SlickWill on March 06, 2005, 04:16:32 AM
Overall, I am extremely excited about this new patch.  The free upgrades are the equilizer.  Rines always get free upgrades, once they are paid for, why shouldn't the aliens?  I also love the new sounds.  Most exciting to me though are the new maps, (not CO, i HATE CO) which seem to be truly well thought out and balanced, (have only played....eon i think it is).  The best patch so far EVER.  So when are they fixing the hit boxes with the next one???  :p
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: SwiftSpear on March 06, 2005, 06:44:56 AM
Quote
I find it's about 5 times more frantic to comm now. And a ton more fun to skulk with free upgrades. Oh, and onos fallling sounds and pistol reloading sounds are choice! Seems to be aliens winning by a healthy margin, no?

Er what else, oh, OT, ns_orbital is a pretty sweet balanced map.
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I know what you mean...  Seems you need to really get your rines butts in gear to have any chance of winning now.  I lost a game where I got HMG within the first 5 mins, had full armor/weapons ups and held about 5 nozzles until the last half of the game, just because when I dropped shotties and JP my team all flew off and ramboed alone, getting themselfs killed with all my equipment and not killing any hives  :angry:

SWIFTCOM ANGRY!
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: UKchaos on March 06, 2005, 08:11:40 AM
I appear to be getting much better reg as a skulk. Fewer BS-moments where im pressed right up againt the marine but not hitting. Although im not sure if the netcode or hitboxes have been improved or not, so it could just be that i had a good run of games :)
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: lolfighter on March 06, 2005, 08:21:15 AM
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[...]Oh, and onos fallling sounds[...]
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A heavy thud, probably? Can't wait to try it out tonight.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Necrosis on March 06, 2005, 08:48:03 AM
It goes a bit Jurassic Park-y.... whoomph........ whoomph.... whoomph.... as the Onos drops closer and closer.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Dubbilex on March 06, 2005, 08:59:02 AM
it's like a nuclear bomb.

Actually I've heard that those are quite silent, so it's probably something more like a car crash.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: 2_of_8 on March 06, 2005, 08:59:16 AM
That sounds extremely cool. I haven't played as/against onos yet, but I hope I will soon :)
I don't like the LMG reloading sound either; maybe someone can make a soundpack of good custom files for NS? Or maybe there is one already.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Manta on March 06, 2005, 10:55:02 AM
Am I the only one who likes those sounds? I think the only sound I don't like is the new jetpack, although it's still better than the HooverPack.

If you search around on sites like t2k or NSArmslab, you can find plenty of sounds.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Necrosis on March 06, 2005, 05:08:37 PM
The reload ping is worryingly like the..........er.... Garand? from Medal of Honour. The one with the ping! reload obviously.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Manta on March 06, 2005, 06:26:07 PM
Yeah, I believe that's the Garand. Haha, space Marines go back in time to get special ammunition from the WWII era.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Necrosis on March 06, 2005, 08:13:51 PM
I shall be changing that sound in the near future. Just need a reload ping from, say, an M16.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Niteowl on March 06, 2005, 10:39:35 PM
I love all the new sounds, personally. And every alien has a special dro psound now.

Oh, and I seem to have noticed that the context specific waypoints (weld target, at waypoint!)  seem to work A TON better now!

The free upgrades also really seem to lead to alot of back and forth and *gasp* epicish games! :D
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: SwiftSpear on March 06, 2005, 11:24:16 PM
Complain about the sounds you don't like in the developer outreach thread.  They sound ok to me, but I am not much of a gun nut.  If they could be improved, let someone who can do something about it know how.  Maby even bug maxx about it on IRC, he idles #NS a fair bit.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Iconoclast on March 06, 2005, 11:32:26 PM
Quote
Complain about the sounds you don't like in the developer outreach thread.  They sound ok to me, but I am not much of a gun nut.  If they could be improved, let someone who can do something about it know how.  Maby even bug maxx about it on IRC, he idles #NS a fair bit.
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Don't know if any commanders have ran into this problem..but the last 3 rounds in our scrims our comm has been hearing our rines reload shotguns at full volume even he wasnt centered in on our radius.

*edit* -btw map was eon.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: SgtFury on March 07, 2005, 05:04:01 AM
One sound that is really annoying is the shotgun reload...... not as a grunt though as a comm, hand out shottys and if you are anywhere near the marines thats all you can hear!!!
   :angry:
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: lolfighter on March 07, 2005, 06:42:12 AM
Yeah, I keep hearing shotgun reload sounds all over - as an alien though.
Otherwise, things look good. Free upgrades make skulking a ton more fun, and maybe we'll see the SC get more use again. The MC just got even more powerful too, thanks to silent or celerity skulks. Let's see if we can manage to push the DC back to the third hive, eh? :D
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Doobie Dan on March 07, 2005, 10:18:22 AM
I just played 3 full games in a row last night as alien, where we went SC first all 3 times and just dominated.  SC first is definitely good, as long as you have people watching the red haloes and giving warnings.  It's kind of fun to sit in Powersilo hive, see some far off haloes, check the map to see where the appropriate sense chamber is and line up your field of view... "MARINES IN OMINOUS KISMET!"   :D

Yes, we got DC last one time.  Innate regen and godly skulks made up for it.

Why no love for Agora?  It's far from my favorite map, but I didn't mind having it in the cycle.  More is always better.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: 2_of_8 on March 07, 2005, 03:11:26 PM
Quote
Quote
it's like a nuclear bomb.

Actually I've heard that those are quite silent, so it's probably something more like a car crash.
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If a tree falls in a forest, and squashes all witnesses, does it make a sound? :p
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Yes, while squashing them :)
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Loke The Sleek Peruvian on March 07, 2005, 07:06:17 PM
Quote
Quote
Quote
it's like a nuclear bomb.

Actually I've heard that those are quite silent, so it's probably something more like a car crash.
[snapback]42577[/snapback]

If a tree falls in a forest, and squashes all witnesses, does it make a sound? :p
[snapback]42677[/snapback]

Yes, while squashing them :)
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Wrong, the witnesses make the sound :p
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Malevolent on March 07, 2005, 08:16:19 PM
Well I finally got to play 3.0 today with a somewhat decent ping (it lagged really bad the first day it came out for some reason). All I can say is that it is fun being aliens again, ns_altair is really purple, free alien upgrades are awesome, and sensory owns.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Squats on March 07, 2005, 10:09:25 PM
I really love being able to upgrade my skulk and not feel like I'm wasting res. That fact alone will be huge for my play style as alien (rush, save res, drop hive or some other stuff, re-skulk, rush some more, repeat ad infinitum). and the sof from the senses is awesome! :) Now I can almost play my focus/celerity/cara skulk from co in ns.


Hmmm I played 4 games as marines so far, and I haven't noticed anything so different except sounds. guess I'll have to look at the changelog...


Thanks ABS  :D  for making me realize that that parasite hit I kept hearing when there were no skulks around was part of the damn reload.   :angry:

Squats
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: SwiftSpear on March 08, 2005, 04:51:00 AM
Quote
I really love being able to upgrade my skulk and not feel like I'm wasting res. That fact alone will be huge for my play style as alien (rush, save res, drop hive or some other stuff, re-skulk, rush some more, repeat ad infinitum). and the sof from the senses is awesome! :) Now I can almost play my focus/celerity/cara skulk from co in ns.


Hmmm I played 4 games as marines so far, and I haven't noticed anything so different except sounds. guess I'll have to look at the changelog...


Thanks ABS  :D  for making me realize that that parasite hit I kept hearing when there were no skulks around was part of the damn reload.   :angry:

Squats
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Sieges don't do damage to alien lifeforms anymore... not that you would knowtice being that the sieges suck so terribly that no comm would consider dropping them now...

Also, look for "-marines no longer win unstacked games" in the changelog... it's there somewhere...
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Necrosis on March 08, 2005, 07:03:56 AM
Actually the sieges are good for a softener. You just need to send men in to mop up. I like this more than the regular format of "drop sieges, sight for sieges, victory JPs in MS".
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: SlickWill on March 08, 2005, 07:12:49 AM
I have seen sieges work, just need like 6, instead of 3 last time.  Not very cost effective unless it is truly impossible to get in hive.  Depending on hive location, sg/hmg rush seems to work the best.  Tfs elec with many turrets much better strat.  Although, I have commed 3 games and every time I have no resnode until 5 minute mark.....or my whole team leapt into pit. >_<
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: lolfighter on March 08, 2005, 10:13:07 AM
The sieges didn't get weaker, there's just a gorge healing the hive. Send some guys in to kill the gorge and the hive goes down.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Mr.Ben on March 08, 2005, 11:53:31 AM
Gorges can heal but you can ping more.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: SlickWill on March 08, 2005, 01:11:09 PM
I take back anything tha I have said previosly.  

New thought:

I hate it.  For aliens to win all they must do is have 2 rts and just not get a two hive lockdown.  Nothing else.  In the process get chambers.  That's it.  Not that hard.  For rines, they must do everything correctly.  I mean everything.  Keep alien res down, keep theirs up, keep base alive, work together (hard concept even on LM), tech and TWO hive lockdown must be had or you lose.  Sure it happens once in a blue moon...but it's not fun to play.  At least in B5 you had some chance to come back.   In this version, it seems that the game gets decided at a point, which is evident clearly while in game and it's a long slow death from there.   It's not fun dominating so much and neither is it fun to be dominated all the time.  

That said, I do like the changes which have been made, but not the way the whole balance has gotten skewed.  Perhaps making fades/onos more expensive would be a solution.  Maybe even just un-nerfing seiges.  Just my two cents.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Necrosis on March 08, 2005, 01:32:00 PM
The game gets decided and usually its a very rapid rush to the finish.

I don't think its necessarily harder on comms, just on passive tech-rush comms. If you've always pursued an aggressive play style then you don't need to changes as much.

Sadly the previous betas heavily favoured a two hive lock, or siege rush, followed by lurking in base until there was res for heavies. Thats not going to work as easily now. Marines can still screw up on occassion, its just that your screw up needs to be cheaper. Screwing up by fluffing a pg siege rush is a big mistake now. Screwing up cheaply is pretty ok.

The strats I've seen work have been dirt cheap. PG, shotties, medspam. No HA needed. Sneak 2 rines to 2 hives, drop 2 pgs, whichever gets built gets rushed. GG.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: That Annoying Kid on March 08, 2005, 01:46:33 PM
I have yet to play 3.0, but the flashlight change is awesome. I used to get advanced hive sight simply for the fact that I could see marines in my dark monitor

Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: lolfighter on March 08, 2005, 02:24:26 PM
/me starts the "get TAK a new display"-fund

I'm still holding off my final verdict. The current pattern, as far as I can discern it, is "the better team wins." That's the way it should be. Good aliens can still be raped by better marines, and vice versa. There may be a slight imbalance favouring the aliens, but it's too early to tell at any rate, and it's nowhere near as big as some people claim.

But yes, marines need to stay on the offense. No picking lint out of your bellybutton in MS any longer. MOVE TO YOUR WAYPOINT SOLDIER!
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Niteowl on March 09, 2005, 10:52:24 AM
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I don't think its necessarily harder on comms, just on passive tech-rush comms. If you've always pursued an aggressive play style then you don't need to changes as much.
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I find it HELLA harder, and I'm not a passive tech comm. And when I say hella, i mean HELLA harder.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Doobie Dan on March 09, 2005, 10:57:05 AM
Agreed.  And if you have only half the team listening to you and going to their exact waypoints, you're basically screwed.  This needs a level of marine teamwork never before seen to win against a good alien team.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Necrosis on March 09, 2005, 12:46:06 PM
Well thats the rub, isnt it. Marines are meant to be a coordinated team, its about time they played like it.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: confused! on March 09, 2005, 05:08:05 PM
I have a question: What happened to marines being able to kill skulks?

I know its possible. It is exceedingly frustrating to lose a hive with 3 marines, a tf, and 2 turrets to a single skulk.

I recognize that new cloaking makes aliens harder to see. I recognize that focus makes things harder. at teh same time I'm sick of seeing groups of mairnes die to single skulks.   Even single marines to one skulk is bad enough.

Guys, if you cant hit the skulks check your configs. By default, your rates have been reset. Fix them.  For my freaking sanity. Please.

That's my biggest problem.


Secondly, when they get sensory, don't wander off. Pver.  Period.
SOF is everywhere. The aliens arent as dumb as rocks you wandering the level are the freaking neon "eat at joe's"  sign.  Also, your team is now down one guy ina critical area.  

Finally, use your motion tracking, your calls and your brain . The comm is now in anutter panic the entire game. He has to be in 35 places at once. Try to give him as much help as you can.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Niteowl on March 09, 2005, 05:58:57 PM
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The aliens arent as dumb as rocks you wandering the level are the freaking neon "eat at joe's"  sign.  Also, your team is now down one guy ina critical area. 

Finally, use your motion tracking, your calls and your brain . The comm is now in anutter panic the entire game. He has to be in 35 places at once. Try to give him as much help as you can.
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HAHHA!! FUNNY! YET truer words were never spoken!!  Remeber in 1.0, when marines were scared to get out of base by themselves? Well, it' that way again.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Rath on March 09, 2005, 06:57:38 PM
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Finally, use your motion tracking, your calls and your brain . The comm is now in anutter panic the entire game. He has to be in 35 places at once. Try to give him as much help as you can.
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Yea I check the map every ten seconds when I'm a rine unless I suspect there are aliens around.  It worked really well before when I could always hear then coming, but now silence and cloaking skulks come get me by surprise while I'm looking at the map.  But still quite often I see something on my map and report it right away.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: 2_of_8 on March 09, 2005, 07:24:38 PM
Quote
I take back anything tha I have said previosly. 

New thought:

I hate it.  For aliens to win all they must do is have 2 rts and just not get a two hive lockdown.  Nothing else.  In the process get chambers.  That's it.  Not that hard.  For rines, they must do everything correctly.  I mean everything.  Keep alien res down, keep theirs up, keep base alive, work together (hard concept even on LM), tech and TWO hive lockdown must be had or you lose.  Sure it happens once in a blue moon...but it's not fun to play.  At least in B5 you had some chance to come back.   In this version, it seems that the game gets decided at a point, which is evident clearly while in game and it's a long slow death from there.   It's not fun dominating so much and neither is it fun to be dominated all the time. 
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I actually agree now, after having played a bit more. Here's a summary of something I posted a while back on the NS forums:
Aliens might win if they don't use teamwork. Aliens probably will if they use teamwork.
Marines will not, under any circumstances, win if they don't use teamwork. Marines might win if they use teamwork.

Problem = lack for utter need to cooperate, i.e. full-out Marine-level teamwork. That means if you go alone, you probably will die, etc.

[edit to clarify]
No, I'm not saying Aliens don't need teamwork right now. Just not enough.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: SwiftSpear on March 10, 2005, 04:03:25 AM
Last I checked the marine win/loss from LM is still dropping dramatically, and many of the regs are frustrated with the marine game to the point that if they are forced rine by random they will just fudge the game.  Eject spamming has trippled in occurance, and pit suicides seem to be on the rize as well.  Its really annoying as for the marines to have any chance of winning at all they need EVERY player on thier team at full effort, thus the game is screwed for everyone if one player decides to pit jump the whole round.

the alternitive isn't much better however, where every reg just stacks alien every game because it is funner.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Necrosis on March 10, 2005, 11:46:59 AM
I alien every round unless I know at least 4 regs on the marine team.

I don't see this as unfair, rather more like ruthless practicality. You need a decent comm and 3 other decent players in order to get decent odds.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: confused! on March 10, 2005, 02:40:22 PM
i dont think it is quite as bad as you all seem to think. The marine game has changed. the days of ninja phase gates to hives are over.  


Now, the game is all about map control.  

the marines need to realize that instead of the old way on teching up and falling back, one has to cordon off map sectons and fortify them.  A single alien chomping rts can is a problem as the aliens all climb the tech tree faster now and with out rts teh marines are getting out teched. The marines on the ground need to be aware of this. The single skulk who has gotten past the blockade can cause havok just like a crazed horde of mongols.

unless the marines can achieve rapid decisive victory they have to contain the aliens ability to tech. Instead of laughing as the fades own rts the marines need to realize that the only way to achieve parity is to take alien rts down and the ge theirs up.

if you loose a game try to figure out what went wrong.

Even with the skulk problems i alluded to in my previous post, the marines still are expanding during the early game. nodes are being capped and the tech tree is being climbed.  The marines take a hive or two and then they are rolled back.  

the alines genrally do this with seeming ease. However, the alien team is very vulneralbe during this period. many games are decided during this window between 3 and 7 minutes.

my expericen is that during this time the teams that ultimately lose are inactive.  they take a low agresssion approach  and try to hold and tech. the problem is that the weak links in their defenses are found and exploited.

this is teh time the fades are coming out, the second hive is going down and the first hmgs  are entering play. the marines need to use their advantage in firepower to prevent the first two.  nodes, hives, and alien players need to die during this time. this is the single most important period in the game. if the marines can continue agressively the game is theirs.

as tehy say the best defense is a good offense. remember that.

and now a shower, i smell like a bagel.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Rath on March 10, 2005, 07:49:57 PM
I go rine every round (lag makes skulking evil) and today I saw a couple interesting things.

On certain maps there are some very long corridors.  If a couple good rines sit at a couple of them and camp, skulks have a very tough time getting past.  It has to be done early game when they dont have leap of course and wont work if theres sensory.  

Another thing I saw work earlier was building a turret factory at a central res node really early.  I got kicked in the middle of a game, but when I came back, the rines were about to win.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Mr.Bill on March 11, 2005, 08:00:15 AM
time to turrent farm off stratigicly important rts in the map!
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Niteowl on March 11, 2005, 10:30:52 AM
The game is, ironically, must be played both faster (rines must move out QUICKLY and dominate the ground) and slower (turrets to contain the aliens and hold position).

I think I'll start using farms more now, unfortunately :S
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: lolfighter on March 11, 2005, 10:36:50 AM
Yah. Skulks can't hold a candle to turrets if there are no blind spots on the tf. What can take down a turret farm is a coordinated skulk rush or a Fade, only the latter of which is common. A PG more than doubles the usefulness of a turret farm, too.

Also, a turret farm of four or five turrets is almost impossible to get past alive for a skulk. If placed in a chokepoint, you effectively deny skulks access to that part of the map. Gorges sometimes lame up chokepoints, and it works rather well.
For example, one of the more successful (pub) tactics on tanith back in the days of b5:
OCs with gorge support in central access tunnels. This would completely cut off the most popular route to cargo, forcing marines to go through chemical transport and acidic resolution instead. Either that, or mount a coordinated assault on central access, one that would often fail anyway because the gorge would cry for help. Even a few skulks were able to wreak havoc on marines busy with OCs.

It's also much harder to get the alien team organised to take down a turret farm in a chokepoint, if that chokepoint is not in or directly outside a hive. Getting aliens to respond to a possible siege or to clear out a turret farmed hive is not that hard, but try to convince your team that the turret farm in a chokepoint somewhere is a priority, and you'll see how sluggish the alien warmachine sometimes reacts.

All this has to be backed up by PGs, though. Any turret farm can be taken down by attrition if there's nobody near to weld damaged structures and replace destroyed turrets, and you cannot rely on marines getting there on foot alive. There's no guarantee that they'll make it.

I believe that confused is right: The game is all about map control now. Inherently the marines are at a disadvantage because they cannot use the same shortcuts (i.e. vents) as the aliens and move slower. The marines have to compensate this through a phase network. Some of the strongest marine games I've seen in b6 relied on a good phase network. Marines were able to get almost anywhere in twenty seconds or less by taking a phase to a nearby location. Not having to walk the map as much also greatly reduces the chance of getting ambushed. In games where aliens go sensory first, this can be combined with a network of observatories, to greatly reduce the advantages of cloaking, especially the SCs cloaking radius, which is extremely potent in combination with sof or focus.

I realise that commanding just got harder, and that I'm asking of the commanders what I could never do myself, but please: Don't give up. And know that I have the utmost respect for a good commander.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Niteowl on March 11, 2005, 11:36:42 AM
Quote
And know that I have the utmost respect for a good commander.
[snapback]43000[/snapback]
Dang.. so close!:(
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: JohnTheGarbageman on March 11, 2005, 03:35:51 PM
Quote

Guys, if you cant hit the skulks check your configs. By default, your rates have been reset. Fix them.  For my freaking sanity. Please.
[snapback]42904[/snapback]

Its a server problem. I've got different demos of B6 just going live and of servers that have been running a few hours - on one you'll see clean hit registry (well as clean as it was in Beta5), on the other you can merrily observe every single kill being about ~2 seconds late and all sorts of weirdness, with the precise same rate settings.

As far as 3.0 Final is concerned, alot of the changes are just silly. Most marine wins we see stem from really, really bad alien teamplay lacking in the essentials. Sure its nice for the ole ego to take credit for those wins, but the build itself is still unbalanced.
Title: 3.0 opinions
Post by: Necrosis on March 11, 2005, 04:23:11 PM
Thats those banana bullets that go round corners.