Author Topic: Bill Comm Strats  (Read 9770 times)

August 03, 2004, 10:35:01 AM
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Mr.Bill

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k, last night I had a game on hera and we relocated under the elevator in maintenance, we lost needless to say but we did good, had we actually got rts instead of mindless wandering I think we could won, so it gave me an idea.. a list of crazy relocates which no comm in their right mind would use in a seriouse game... and use those relocates and try to win with them. The list ill put down here will grow whenever I get an idea or someone has a good one, I wouldnt put them down on the list if I didnt think they were possible, so here they are.

ns_hera -

Under maintenance elevator =
Landing Platform = succeeded. - cant remember the specific comm,

Ns_Bast -

bottom of that pit of dewm, you know where =
observatory  =
in the water =
Ontop of pipes in feedwater =
Ontop of pipes in Furnace =

Ns_Ayumi

Ontop of pipes in pressure control =
Gorges hideout =
In the big vent exit =

If you have any ideas tell me and ill edit the list, and if you try one of these and succeed, tell me and ill put you on the list for doing it :)

list is small right now but ill get more, there's plenty.

 
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August 03, 2004, 11:02:42 AM
Reply #1

Doobie Dan

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I don't think you can build up top in Pressure Control - I've tried to relocate there.  :)

This list could go on for miles.

Ns_Tanith:
 - Vent room between Waste and the room below it - Succeeded  ^_^
 - The vents between Waste and Fusion

Ns_Agora:
 - Room above The Pit
 - Long hallway between Cargo and Pit (back entrance)

Ns_Lost:
 - On top of the Cargo Bay crates

Ns_Eclipse:
 - Vent near Station Access Alpha
 - Hallways between SAA and PSJ3 (doesn't seem so bad, but just think how many times you've died there as marine)

Ns_Bast:
 - Marine start
 - Siege vents by Engine room

Ns_Metal:
 - Room above Storage D

Ns_Origin:
 - Vent room between Biodome and Ventilation
 - Vent room near Marine start
 - On top of the box/ledges in Cargo
 - Upper ledge in furnace (might not be possible)
 - High beam in room outside Furnace (I've done this before, but it was an end game joke.  Probably requires JP to get there in the first place)
 - Lava bridge.  Be creative with building placement :)

Ns_Nancy
 - That useless room that they took out :(
 - Below the broken floor
 - On top of the engine in Port (might not be possible)

Ns_Mineshaft
 - Sewer access (big room between Sewer and Cafe)

Ns_Nothing
 - Edge of the pit in Foreboding
 - On top of the pipes in Ominous
 - Back entrance to Cargo: on top of the pipes (yes, you can get there without JPs)
 - Below the ladder in Miasma

I tried to keep out ones that require JPs.  There's a million awesome places to relocate to with jetpacks, but that kind of defeats the purpose of this exercise.  :)
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August 03, 2004, 11:40:54 AM
Reply #2

Isamil

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ns_bast
N-Corridor relocate.  N-Corridor can be reached by going into the vents on MS elevator, heading right, heading left, heading right, up the ladder and relocate there.

Its really cramped though.

August 03, 2004, 11:52:45 AM
Reply #3

Necrosis

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Let me think...





That greeny watery bit in Nancy is always good for suicidal falling.

Bast - the tiny space where you can barely drop a CC and an IP in the vent next to Feed hive.

The big lifts in Nothing.
Necrosis killed Holy_Devil with pistol
Holy_Devil: cheater

August 03, 2004, 12:04:16 PM
Reply #4

Kodiac

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ns_eclipse-  The vent next to power subjunction
               -  The Big part of ms/horseshoe vent

ns_agora  -vent(s)  outside cargo hive
                vent in tunnel(not the hive, the rt outside of it)
               

thats all i can think of
Kodiac teh Pirate Bear
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August 03, 2004, 12:36:42 PM
Reply #5

Mr.Bill

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looks like all us crazy comms will be busy :-D

oh and I wont bother editing the first post, becaus you guys did an awsome job for ordering them.. well least doobie did :)
« Last Edit: August 03, 2004, 12:37:17 PM by Mr.Bill »

 
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August 03, 2004, 12:53:11 PM
Reply #6

Isamil

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Whenever they make me comm this is my strat.

Find hive.
Relocate outside.
Usually I never even pull off the relocate part.

August 04, 2004, 05:22:52 AM
Reply #7

tankefugl (in a tent)

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Pff, you all forgot the best relocate:

ns_eclipse: keyhole

However, relocates are commanding concepts of the past. They do make for interesting games, though, and might "balance" the game to compencate for the early marine power.

August 04, 2004, 06:17:54 AM
Reply #8

lolfighter

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Keep this to a minimum please. If you relocate to some impossible location every single time you comm, you're holding the game hostage. You're denying everyone a normal game because you think it should be screwing around time. If we see this happening too often and people start to complain about it, you force us to make rules against it, making our ruleset even more complex and creating more work for the admins. Please remember that LM is not your personal playgroud. Yes, we want you to have fun, but we want everyone else to have fun as well. If your definition of fun goes contrary to the rest of the server's, you'll have to yield.

August 04, 2004, 05:50:03 PM
Reply #9

Mr.Bill

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ns_origine

Vent outside of double on top of the bigger elevator going to furnace = win, myself thanks to ym team.

To lava catwalk = win, DHP for that one :)

 
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August 04, 2004, 09:05:44 PM
Reply #10

EmperorPenguin

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Yes, that lava catwalk relocate really worked out well.  So well, in fact, that I don't know if it qualifies as a crazy location anymore.  At the time though, we felt like it was.

Bill, I expect to see a bunch of these happen in the next few days...
"What is it that makes a complete stranger dive into an icy river to save a solid gold baby?  Maybe we'll never know."

August 05, 2004, 08:57:24 AM
Reply #11

devicenull

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marines.relocate(map.rndPosition())

:)
Thats what I do..
lets see. can't remember the map name..
Next to double, between generator and vent, theres a nice little square area.. Your close to 2 hives and double, doesnt get much better

August 05, 2004, 10:09:05 AM
Reply #12

Mr.Ben

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*MrBen goes alien*

:D:D:D:D:D

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August 05, 2004, 10:09:47 AM
Reply #13

BobTheJanitor

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Alright, here's some real relocation theory to help you out. Everyone likes a giggle every once in a while for the 'relocate inside the kooky crazy vent TEEHEEHEHE!' but there are strategically viable and worthwhile relocates that can help win the game for you. Since we're discussing relocation, lets not forget those useful places to move to.

The basic relocs will be either for area control, or for res control. It all depends on what type of strat you're going to use. If you want to lock down a hive or two and hopefully keep the aliens from expanding so that you can take out their hive quickly before they lifeform up, you'll want a good area control relocate. Examples of this type would be relocating to main aft on bast (well, at least until the b5 bast comes out and main aft becomes less important) or a reloc to temp control on lost (hard to pull off, but if you can do it, you now have two hives controlled)

The second type of relocate is for res control. This is not quite as good as the first, honestly, because it's a bit more risky. Basically you move wherever there's the most res nearby. All relocates to double res nodes are of this type. The problem with these types of relocates is that, depending on the map, you may not have much in the way of area control. For example: a big mistake people make on bast is taking the res control reloc (atmos) over the area control reloc (main aft). Sure, atmos gives you the double node and probably feedwater. But you're completely giving up marine start, main aft, and engine. They're simply too inconvenient to get to from double if the aliens put any effort into controlling them. You can't send one marine over to recap them, it won't happen. It has to be a whole team assault. Whereas with the main aft reloc, you get to control engine and refinery, and the majority of the nodes on that side of the map. Some maps though, double is a control area, because it's centrally located (caged, tanith). But if you're going for res control, that means you're also allowing the aliens to build up territory, res, and hives, so you have to USE your res control. Keep upgrades flowing and be prepared to deal with higher lifeforms and take down multiple hives with this type of game.

When picking your relocate position, consider a few factors:

1. Is there ANY res nearby? If it comes down to a crunch, there should be at least one res node within view of your base so you still have something pumping res even if you've lost all the rest of the map after a big hive assault.

2. Is base in the middle of a main thoroughfare? You want it to be. Find the main road of the map that you're on and park your base right in the middle of it. That's the importance of choke points. That's the reason that a reloc to cargo on tanith is 100 times better than a reloc to west access. The only reason to go to west access is to get a node. It's useless as far as map control. But cargo is a hugely important point. Several paths are squeezed through it, and it allows control of fusion hive and two res nodes (cargo, fusion) with another two in easy access distance (acidic, chem), and it keeps the aliens from getting from one hive to another without having to squeeze through vents or take the long way around.

3. How are the lines of fire? There's something in most comm's heads that says that a base is more 'safe' if it's tucked away in a tiny corner. No. Tight corners are good for aliens, they're death for marines. Marines want to be in large open areas (but with low ceilings if possible; make those fades and lerks attack in two dimensions instead of three). Long hallways are nice. Long distances to the nearest cover are also nice. Assaulting aliens will have a good chance of getting blasted in the back as they run out to heal. Always remember that marines are at the advantage with distance.

So, good relocates:

Bast - main aft.
Tanith - cargo (reactor is decent, but you better end the game before they get fades, reactor is a fade playground)
Nothing - generator for map control, but don't get slowed down... gen is way too easy to assault with big lifeforums; cargo for res control with two nodes and decent access to gen, plus a hive block
Veil - double is good for res control and for denial of cargo, but it's also somewhat easy to assault - try the long hallway between double and subsector for res control + map control + area control + good lines of fire - the only disadvantage is no res node in sight, but if you can hold double you'll do okay.
Ayumi - cold turn - blocks hama hive, has two nodes close by and eastern just down the hall. Easy access to both other hives. Very hard to pull off if the hive IS hamasaki. Can also be harassed to no end by a lerk sporing from the long hall that leads towards pressure control
Nancy - mess hall - of course... actually putting most of your base in the tunnel just outside mess is preferable, just keep it towards the aux gen end of the tunnel or a bb gorge in the vent up above could really ruin your day


Relocates I'd be curious to try:
Agora - analysis lab - decent for res control and more strategically located than MS. Has the advantage of big annoying BUTTON OPERATED doors. Pretty much a free kill for any big lifeform that comes in.
Nancy - cargo - just because I wonder if it's at all possible for marines to GET here without dying at game start... maybe with a really bad alien team it would be possible, but otherwise I strongly doubt it. Would be a nice area control relocate, with res nearby in a few areas, but it's mostly theoretical.

That was a lot of typing, and I should really pretend to work some now. Feel free to add your (good, not goofy) relocate ideas as well.

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August 05, 2004, 10:42:29 AM
Reply #14

Doobie Dan

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Well, I was purposely leaving out any relocates with strategic value.  :)  That's a whole different list.

Great post Bob, I like the area control vs. res control theory.

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Tanith - cargo (reactor is decent, but you better end the game before they get fades, reactor is a fade playground)
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Reactor is only good if you build in the corner near the ramp - never EVER build your base by the nodes.
In my experience, Cargo is a better place to lock down than to actually relocate to.  If you DO relocate here, place all your buildings near the wall towards Fusion and put turrets in the main open space.  The reason Cargo is so good for marines is that it's so open - it loses that quality when you give the aliens lots of cover with your own buildings.
Chemical Transport is a pretty good relocate too - only because Cargo is very risky considering how long it takes to get there.
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Ayumi - cold turn - blocks hama hive, has two nodes close by and eastern just down the hall. Easy access to both other hives. Very hard to pull off if the hive IS hamasaki. Can also be harassed to no end by a lerk sporing from the long hall that leads towards pressure control
Oh man, what a great place.  We've relocated there together a few times and dominated.  The only thing to mention about this place is building placement, as it can kill you if you don't do it right.  Check out Rad's siege guide to get a start - TF on the inside corner, RT electrified, a couple turrets outside, armory on the outside hallway corner.  Tell your team to ignore the lerk.  Scan Hama from time to time to make sure they're not trying to pull a fast one on you.
Btw, I've relocated here when they've had Hama before.  Thanks to sieges, that was a short game.  :)
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Nancy - mess hall - of course... actually putting most of your base in the tunnel just outside mess is preferable, just keep it towards the aux gen end of the tunnel or a bb gorge in the vent up above could really ruin your day
Good lord, watch out for that vent.  Really REALLY ruin your day.
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Agora - analysis lab - decent for res control and more strategically located than MS. Has the advantage of big annoying BUTTON OPERATED doors. Pretty much a free kill for any big lifeform that comes in.
Those same doors can turn into a bad situation when it becomes a free kill for any marine trying to get out.  Relocates to this area are good unless you managed to get trapped in by fades, then you're screwed.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2004, 10:43:58 AM by Doobie Dan »
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August 05, 2004, 12:50:17 PM
Reply #15

Necrosis

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If we're talking decent relocates then its definitely all about patrol range and defensive ability. Not unlike dropping bases in X Com.

In a nutshell, you want to cover as much res in your patrol range as possible, while at the same time being in a room that's easy to defend. Patrol range is basically what your marines can get to on foot. I find this handy not only for relocates but also for PG minibases.

For hive relocates, try not to be IN the hive, but rather CLOSE to the hive and somewhere you can defend. Remember hives are EASY to get into - if it weren't true, then marines would never win. If you lame up IN the hive, you're going to get pinned down and quickly squashed. Very few hives are favourable for defensive strats. If you're NEAR a hive, in a good room, then you force the aliens to fight on your terms. As long as you're in siege range, you can lame up your minibase and promptly siege the poo out of your target hive.

The other good thing about vacant hives is that aliens will quite frequently run in and attempt to drop it, assuming that the hive is empty and clear of rines. If you're two corridors away then you merely need to run in and trigger your sieges to instantly end the ninja hive. If you'd had your base IN the hive then you'd have been fighting a full fledged alien force dedicated to wiping everything out. If you're near the hive, then there's less drive on the alien team to wipe you out, and if you're really lucky the aliens will split up and you'll face maybe only a fade or two, as opposed to a fade or two AND a whole team.

Being near a hive also allows you to cover a lot more res - if you're IN a hive you'll find it hard to get out if the aliens are outside, and as a rule most hives are close to only 2 nodes at most. If you leave a hive, you can easily put yourself in a position to cover 4 nodes within walking distance, as well as a base that aliens will find hard to enter.




Hope that helps as a few pointers, imho some comms fall into the trap of thinking a hive lockdown means being IN the hive.
Necrosis killed Holy_Devil with pistol
Holy_Devil: cheater

August 05, 2004, 02:03:51 PM
Reply #16

Mr.Ben

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You realise how big a play ground reactor is because of it's size but you say cargo is fine?! You're crazy :p

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August 05, 2004, 02:42:34 PM
Reply #17

BobTheJanitor

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You realise how big a play ground reactor is because of it's size but you say cargo is fine?! You're crazy :p

1. Yes, I am crazy.  :help:

2. Ah, but the idea is that cargo is a map control reloc. Meaning you're going for the fast game -- denying access to the second hive and teching to rush the first hive ASAP. Reactor is a res control reloc. It's MUCH harder to deny the second hive from here, so you will very likely have to deal with two hive fades, even if your strategy is executed perfectly. You're just supposed to have enough res to be ready to deal with them when they show up.

Lunixmonster: Banning the NS community one smacktard at a time. -lolfighter
there are a lot of aaaa...mmmmm.... "HAPPY" pirates on this ship. -GrayDuck

August 05, 2004, 07:14:09 PM
Reply #18

Kodiac

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i have a question.

If i move most of the team to a location (say....EM drill shaft) but keep a small base in MS..is it a relocate?

If so, then if you are really lucky, yoyu dont have to worry about deciding between res relocates and area relocates.  Put a base at each one, and the aliens will be all like OMG HAXBBQ and nnot be able to decide what to kill first.

anyway, tthats the strat im working on....doulbe base FTW!
Kodiac teh Pirate Bear
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August 05, 2004, 08:06:51 PM
Reply #19

Mr.Bill

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I've had 3 in the same room once... worked out kinda well for a while.

 
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