Natural Selection:Source

[duherman]

This is just an idea but in NS:S the maps are gonna be much bigger, cause of the source engine. So to use all this extra room they should add in a 3rd race, I would like to see what you guys think of this.

[Isamil]

NO

[Legionnaired]

Maps will probably have to stay the same size, because if it were any bigger the aliens would dominate no matter what. Eg. Old Hera.

But yeah, no third race.

[2_of_8]

Not a third race, but definitely bigger maps.
And yes, with bigger maps, there will be major, major changes to NS. But it'll be interesting!

[@gentOrange]

A 3rd race would ROCK!

Provided they were space pirates who gained health from drinking astro grog and eating interstellar nachos!

[GrayDuck]

:blink: Am I missing something?  How would NS:S = Bigger maps?

And yeah, NS is complex enough.  Definately NO third race.

[Dark]

i am not for a third race at all and plus as of yet to my knowledge NS:S has not even been confirmed.  i'ld love to see NS:S but well it really isn't up to us or is it  

[A Boojum Snark]

I HIGHLY doubt NS will ever be ported to the source engine. Their time is much better spent finishing up NS and working on NS2. I also think that NS:S would be a waste of time as the engine really has nothing to offer other than increased visuals, and perhaps with the physics you could have a slug that carries the hive and then rolls the hive down a hill after the marines..... ^___________^

[Mr.Ben]

It'll be interesting to see what happens, it really depends on the ease of porting content (a process i'm not familiar with given i dont own HL2 yet) and how much, if any they'd add to the game. NS:S wouldn't have too much issue recruiting talented people, be it modellers or animators and given that Flayra is the only one involved with UWE it's not totally out of the question he could take even more of a backseat role to allow it to happen.

Only time will tell.

[duherman]

:blink: Am I missing something?  How would NS:S = Bigger maps?

And yeah, NS is complex enough.  definitely NO third race.

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The "Source" engine allows larger maps then the current engine right now. Thus that equals Larger Maps.

[Isamil]

Allows
Doesn't meen you have to use it, NS maps are big enough as it is.  Most of the HL2 maps don't take up anywhere near the max allowed size.

[A Boojum Snark]

Do you realise just HOW big we are talking? max_map_planes errors aside (which you would have trying to make a map as detailed as NS maps are on a large scale), a NS style map making full use of the x/y area available could possibly take ten, twelve, or more minutes or more to get from one corner of the map to another. Whole games sometimes finish in that amount of time now.
(directed at IR, not isa)

[Malevolent]

Maps will probably have to stay the same size, because if it were any bigger the aliens would dominate no matter what. Eg. Old Hera.

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Actually, look at ns_hydrosity. Marines dominate on that map because of the fact that it is large. Marines have phase tech so they can go anywhere they want instantly; just build a pg. Marines will put pgs in key places all over large maps. Aliens on the other hand, cannot defend a second hive easily unless they have movement chambers or their RTs for that matter.

[Mr.Bill]

Once your map gets big enough, you get as ABS said, Map Max plane error (hit it today, damn shame). You also have to consider how big the maps would be, in mb. Cranefight? not that big, it's 17mb big. Lockdown is 10mb, so unless they get better compiling tools (Oh, I hope so, it's nessesary) Ns maps themsevles would easily be bigger then 20, 30 mb. 30mb per map, well damn, that will be a huge ass download, and downloading custom maps from the server is practically out of the question.

EDIT: Mind you, once cranefight was zipped, it went form 17mb to 5mb, So  theres deffinently improvment for compiling, Im sure

[Legionnaired]

Is the max planes limit upped in Source?

There was a fix for it in HL1, I don't see why it isn't possible for another hack to be coded in to optimize the planes.

[duherman]

I just realised. You guys got a point there. That's the point of this thread. To say what you feel about this idea.

[TheAdj]

NS:S talk aside (Don't ask, because no one knows), use some common sense and logic to figure out some things.  

1) Just because something can happen does not mean it will happen.  Flayra could announce NS2 tomorrow, doesn't mean it will happen.  Apply that same logic to "Maps can be bigger, so they will be".  

2) Marines win on larger maps when travel time isn't very high across the map and/or they have easy access to RTs and/or aliens don't have easy access.  Aliens win on large maps when the travel time around the map is high and/or aliens have easy access to a lot of RTs and/or marines don't have easy access.  

If marines can easily move around, they have a much higher chance of winning.  Marines win hera often, but they don't win nothing anywhere close to as often.  Why, you ask?  Because on Hera I can cap 5 RTs in less than two minutes and on nothing I'm lucky to get more than 2, and it takes 3 minutes to walk to the "good" hive on nothing (viaduct).  On hera it's much easier to get into all of the hives (less than 2 minutes, usually less than that).

3) Do not assume NS:S would be a 100% direct port, or that it's more than just similar to NS.  To list quite a few things that would be quite possible using Source compared to the bastardized Quake 1 engine we're using now:
 -Realistic flight physics on the lerk (Yes, it would absolutely rape.  Divebombing ftw)
 -A general revampment of the movement aspect of aliens that wouldn't be a hack
 -A revamped marine weapons system that was Homeworld2 fighter style
 -Additional marine tech lines that added not only depth, but branches
 -A totally different resource system
 -A different alien tech tree that had more chambers AND more hives

A combination of these would make the game similar to NS, but a totally different game.  Anyone that played Homeworld and Homeworld 2 understands the real type of difference an engine jump can do for a game that was simply a next step for the game world.  All of this would add far more complexity than simply "adding a 3rd race" (which is lol right out of I&S btw, I needed the laugh, thanks).

[lolfighter]

There is ONE very simple reason why a third race is out of the question: Balance. The devs can't even get TWO races balanced out, because they are so radically different. A third race won't exactly make it easier.

Nevermind the problem you run into when you have three sides fighting on one map: It's inevitable that two of them will gang up on the third first, giving them no chance to win at all.

[A Boojum Snark]

Actually LF it could possibly make it easier, as you could move more towards the rock-papper-scissors approch. Not completely but that general idea. Although the bit of ease gained in balancing would likely be loss in the rise of complexity in playing the game itself.

[lolfighter]

Hmm, that's a possibility. However, rock-paper-scissors means that you pretty much have to chuck all the old maps out of the window, since ALL maps will need all three sides on them. Otherwise, if we have a "rock and scissors" map, nobody will want to play scissors. Not to mention that all competitive matches would have to be threesomes. A third race has some allure, but I don't see it happening in NS.