Author Topic: Idea!  (Read 12826 times)

October 16, 2004, 03:14:33 AM
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Slink

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All right.  As i think everyone knows, the hand grenade upgrade sucks.  It's hardly ever used, and it's pretty much redundant.  So here's my idea.

Incendiary hand grenades.

You remember when you first played NS, and you no doubt though to yourself, "gee, a flamethrower would be awesome here."  The idea of a flamethrow is on the "do not suggest" list in the I&S because it's so cool.

Now, if i recall correctly, the reason that a flamethrower isn't in NS is because they couldn't make one that was both good looking, effected by the area around it, AND easy on the processor.  When i say effected by the area around it, i mean that in a big room, the flame spreads out, and doesn't last as long.  In a small area, such as a vent, the flame would project much more, and and keep burning longer.

I don't have a whole lot of programming knowledge so please correct me if i'm wrong here.  If you are shooting a stream of fire, and you want it to alter it's behavior according to it's surroundings, then it has to re-calculate it's rate of expansion constantly, throughout the entire stream.  That would be very processor intensive, and it's understandable that a flamethrower isn't in the halflife engine.

But, if you had a hand grenade spew fire everywhere, it'd only have to calculate once.  That'd take a lot less resources.  Then it would satisfy all conditions set by the NS team, since it'd look good, be "real-time" fire, and be low-usage.

And really, would you miss the current hand grenade?  When is the last time you used one, anyway?  The gl does the same job, except it's better.  True, hand grenades are sooner on the tech tree, but only if your resources aren't tight, and you aren't researching an advanced armory.  In early game, before you have an advance armory, your res is tight, and if you're not upgrading you armory then you should be.



Okay, so those are all the reasons for changing hand grenades to incendiary hand grenades.  I'm suggesting this here, instead of the I&S, for two reasons.  First, meaning no disrespect to the forum mods, but i think the community here is much better.  Second, i remember a thread about a new idea for the fade's blink.  I also remember a lot of feedback on that thread, because there was a mod of it, a clear example.  Since i don't have the programming knowledge or tools to make an incendiary grenade, i thought i might throw the idea out, and see if someone can whip up an example, THEN we take it over to the I&S and hold it up for all to see (just to prove how cool TLM is.)



Plus, how cool would it be to should "BURN, FATTY!!! and throw your fire grenade onto the gorge hiding behind the oc's.  Then you'd get to watch him scream in agony, as his life withers away before his very eyes.  Poor gorgie.
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October 16, 2004, 03:30:37 AM
Reply #1

Grimm

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It certainly is a nice idea, although personally I wouldn't want to see it implimented because the marines are strong enough as it is; giving them another easy way of killing off smaller things, like gorges, is overkill.

October 16, 2004, 09:08:58 AM
Reply #2

Malevolent

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That's an interesting idea. But if you put it in, you wouldn't feel like you accomplished as much when you kill a skulk with one. They are so effing hard to aim with.
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October 16, 2004, 09:10:54 AM
Reply #3

Dark

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it is a lot better than the flamethrower idea; however, i do have to side with grim on this since the rines are getting stronger every new build whereas teh aliens get nothing v_v
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er.. which doohickey is the capacitor? and not a FLUX capacitor right?!? cuz then i'd have to put it in my Dolorian..
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October 16, 2004, 12:03:33 PM
Reply #4

tankefugl (in a tent)

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Take it to the I&S forum anyway. You'll be sure that the Zunni reads it there -- he goes through everything.

October 16, 2004, 12:12:31 PM
Reply #5

holy_devil

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give marines that imo, make it the early structure counter. instead of shotguns the counter everything i win button, be nice to not have hives drop in < 3 seconds :help:

October 17, 2004, 06:55:29 PM
Reply #6

E-Fonzarelli

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hand grens are just weak....  they can't do much against a WOL, or much else.  If you are lucky, and come across a nub skulk, you might kill it, but otherwise its just useless.

It would be a good idea when researched, to have 3 grens per life, instead of one.

October 17, 2004, 09:42:46 PM
Reply #7

Satiagraha

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It would be a good idea when researched, to have 3 grens per life, instead of one.
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I like that Idea. And/or make them more powerful.

We are the shadow that comes in the night and says "ARRR!"
"yarrr I'm gaybeard the butt pirate, and I've come to plunder yer booty!" -TAK

October 18, 2004, 04:19:04 AM
Reply #8

Malevolent

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I always thought one hand grenade wasn't enough, too.
It's twice as clear as heaven and twice as loud as reason.

October 18, 2004, 11:27:08 PM
Reply #9

EmperorPenguin

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They are handy for getting aliens out of vents without having to hand out GLs, and for destroying stuff around corners.  I think increasing quantity would definitely make sense, and hopefully bring them back into the game!  I miss having grenades, but I dare not ask the comm to research unless we're swimming in res.
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October 19, 2004, 02:26:20 AM
Reply #10

DynamicPerformance

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Heh  >:D  skulks burn  >:D

I like, actually, i don't think marines are that overbalanced.  I find that unless the commander is god, we lose.

So often now people just goof off... sigh...


Dynamicman out...
Sorry, but while the dimensions on your sig are just right, it's a little big. See if you can compress it a little to get below the 22kb limit. -lolfighter

October 20, 2004, 02:23:05 PM
Reply #11

Squats

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I like the idea too. And the idea of giving 3 instead of one too. And the idea of moving shotties to advanced armory too. Taken all three together it seems like it would balance fine. You don't really NEED shotties before you can have an upgraded armory, and an early shotty rush with a good marine team seems to almost always be the win, so making them wait about as long as the aliens need to for hive #2 seems fair, if they can research these new grenades early for countering early skulk/gorge attacks.

I think maybe these new 'nades could work by making an area of fire about the size of an average hallway's width that lasts for like 10 secs and does about 20/sec damage, it would be effective for skulk/gorge control by denying them area to be in but not be horribly overpowered. And if the fire works much like electrified stuff, meaning that you only take damage for being "in" the flames and that it doesn't actually set things on fire, it shouldn't be too hard to code, I think...

I'd offer to help code, but I'm way too busy and would have to learn hl mod coding from scratch....

Good luck...

Squats
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October 26, 2004, 07:33:19 PM
Reply #12

Grimm

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20 damage per second is definitely too much, and if each marine had three grenades, they'd be able to cut through gorges and skulks like a hot knife through butter. Not like they don't with shotguns, but that's already being discussed. You would also have to take into consideration if the damage would stack if more than one grenade went off in the same area, because surely a marine could throw a second and probably the third into an area before the first one ran out. Plus, I wouldn't imagine the marines using it as an area deterrent; I see them all rushing and throwing the grenades directly onto the gorges, and we all know how quickly gorges die to rambos anyway if they don't have any kind of cover or defense through multiple offense chambers.

Three grenades per marine doesn't sound too bad, but including a long-duration, heavy-damage effect like that is too much. 20 damage per second is more than a deterrent; it's a major damage dealer. I know I shouldn't compare different games, but not even the napalm grenades in TFC do that much damage. The idea definitely needs more tweaknig before it could be considered seriously.

October 26, 2004, 10:27:40 PM
Reply #13

EmperorPenguin

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I've noticed comms are starting to research hand grenades again on LM, at least on occasion (which is up from never).  I for one am quite happy about it, like I've said earlier I think they're underrated.

I mean incendiary grenades would be cool, but the regular ones are just more practical.
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October 27, 2004, 06:37:01 PM
Reply #14

Kodiac

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I dont know about you guys, but i try to research nades before my armory advances, as with a good team that knows how to use them NOTHING hides in vents anymore.  I'd be willing to try this idea, maybe even help.  But i dont know anything aobut pragramming/coding/anyhting else, so all i'd do is pting.  so yup, i keep checking in on this to see if it goes anywhere.
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October 27, 2004, 08:13:29 PM
Reply #15

Seth

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whoever said moving shotguns to advanced armory only is the stupidest thing i've ever heard. shotgun is the only defence vs a early fade right now.

whereas handgrens should be equil to or comparable strong as a seige cannon.

ie. 1 HG will do about 65% to a oc

i'd say no more then 2 per life also, dont want this into a omg lets get HG and SPAM them to death game.
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October 28, 2004, 09:43:11 AM
Reply #16

Grimm

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Offense chambers die quickly enough as it is without a single-shot über-seige, giving the marines such a grenade would really screw any possible alien structural defenses.

October 30, 2004, 04:00:04 PM
Reply #17

fatty

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how about we give marines nukes and take out bite, its so overpowered.

please no more ideas that only help marines...

November 02, 2004, 02:10:01 PM
Reply #18

Satiagraha

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how about we give marines nukes and take out bite, its so overpowered.

please no more ideas that only help marines...
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yes, please. But I really do like the idea of multiple handgrenades. The perfect matching adjustment is an early counter, carapace.

We are the shadow that comes in the night and says "ARRR!"
"yarrr I'm gaybeard the butt pirate, and I've come to plunder yer booty!" -TAK

November 02, 2004, 06:02:25 PM
Reply #19

Malibu Stacey

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yes, please. But I really do like the idea of multiple handgrenades. The perfect matching adjustment is an early counter, carapace.
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which again forces Defence Chambers as first upgrade, something a lot of people want to get away from.