This Is A Stick-up

[Satiagraha]

I'm trying to set up a basic map of NS, and I can't find a bunch of stuff.

Could someone please send me a complete RMF file so that I can study it?


BTW, I'm not new to mapping, I've made many intermediate to advanced maps for HL, HLDM, and TFC (all very fun to map with ^_^ )

If you can't upload it to the internet, you could send it to me through email at satiagraha@nc.rr.com

[Plaguebearer]

I would, but I don't use rmfs.  sorry.

[Satiagraha]

I would, but I don't use rmfs.  sorry.

Dang...

I know and love WorldCraft, It's what I've been using for many many years.  I remember finding out that it was also on my HL CD (version 2 )

Unfortunately, It's all I know











[size=8]I want RMFs...[/size]

[BobTheJanitor]

I don't have a complete rmf... I have about 1/4th of one. That wouldn't help you too much though.

[Satiagraha]

Hey Uranium, Don't you have an RMF for ns_desolate?

Mind if I take a look at it?

[BobTheJanitor]

I could tell you where to get complete RMFs for non-NS maps, but I don't know how well that will help you.

[Satiagraha]

yeah, I studied those a long time ago when I first learned WC, I have a good sense of how WC works and the basic entities of it, it's just parts of NS are much different from vanilla HL and other mods, so I just need to figure out the basics of those. I'd like to set up a basic ns_ map that works, the whole comm, hive, and resource system. Once I get those, I will be able to freely understand the rest

Just need to get my feet off the ground ^_^

[UPDATE] I found this website that kind of explains some of the new NS entities and NS mapping techniques.  It helps, but there are somethings I'd like to see in action.
http://www.natural-selection.org/Mapping_Guidelines.html [/UPDATE]

[BobTheJanitor]

I'm not sure what to tell you. Best thing to do is just jump right in really. It worked out okay for me anyway. If you have any questions I'll help as well as I can, and I'm sure Uranium would also be happy to. And if we don't know, I'm betting esuna would. Then there's the mapping help forum on ns.org and the nsmapping irc channel as well. So there's plenty of places to get help, it's just a matter of knowing the questions, which you won't until you just jump in.

Best thing I've found for trying things out is to make a test box map for whatever you're testing. Want to know how a (random example) res node works? Make a box, hollow it, texture it all with some random texture, slap a light and an info_player_start in it, and then a func_resource on the floor. Compile. Total time, about thirty seconds to a minute. Then if you want to see how something else works, delete the func_resource and replace it with, say, a team_command. That's what I had to do to puzzle my way through env_particles_custom (all the guides I could find on this dated back to the NSTR days).

So yeah, just jump in and see what happens.  

[Satiagraha]

Well, I've been messing with it all of today, and here's what I've gotten:

all the readyroom stuff, res nodes, CCs, comm views and stuff, locations, hives, player starts, env_mapinfo, env_gameplay, the buildings, seethroughs, general entities(like doors, and buttons, and targets and multimanagers), func_illusionary, lights, etc.

Here's what I don't get:

env_gamma (it seems to make things look like crap...), info_textlights, the env_particles_custom, why I don't get a scoreboard, and why I'm not frozen after joining a team, but before the round starts.

Care to explain? Please? :blink:

[BobTheJanitor]

Env_gamma is NS's cool overbrightening effect that, far from making things look like crap, makes some of the best maps look as cool as they do. For exactly WHAT it does, the technical details are more involved than I care to know, but for our purposes, what it does is make the shadows deeper and the lights brighter. Gives you that cool sci-fi look where a room can be dark and gloomy and yet still have piercing lights glowing through on consoles and such. It's also the reason every screenshot you take in NS comes out really dark, because in game it's got a gamma correction applied to it. It's sorta hard to explain, but when used right it's quite cool. Bast is probably the best map to look to for this. Notice how sharp the variations are between dark and light areas and how the colors almost seem to jump out at you. That's the overbrightening effect at work.

That long diatribe doesn't have much to do with the entity itself though, I just like to ramble. Basically you set it to a value between 1.0 (really dark) and 2.0 (horribly bright) and then see what it looks like in game. If it doesn't work for you, tweak and try again. It effects the gamma ramp across the whole map. You can change it in game if cheats are on with the command setgamma x in the console. Supposedly maps are supposed to be designed so that they're still playable with a gamma level of 1.0, but I'd like to see you manage that and not have the map also be hideously bright when people play it with their gamma cranked to the max (like most people do).

Info_texlights, from what I'm finding on it, isn't really worth worrying about unless you already understand texture lighting. And if you do understand texture lighting, just use that, it seems a lot easier than adding another entity to your maps for no reason... (I'm sure someone with more knowledge than I would be happy to counter that statement)

Env_particles_custom is a big one. It took me a while of messing with it to figure that one out. This article might help you out some, but it's also somewhat confusing and somewhat outdated. That's really a huge question that even I don't fully grasp the intricacies of, so instead I suggest reading that article and playing around with the entity for a while until you finally reach that moment of bliss when the damn thing actually blurts out some particles. Having them generated by an entity and effected by gravity is a lot easier, for starters. Not nearly as many numbers to mess with. There's some sample maps with the article that help.

And as far as not getting a scoreboard, that's probably because you're just going to console and typing map whatever. That just plops you down on the map, doesn't really start a real game. If your rounds are actually starting (the countdown ping etc.) then you've got sv_cheats 1 enabled, and that's why you can move around before round start.

This was supposed to be a quick note before bed. And now I'm up late. BLAH.

Nite!

[Uranium - 235]

Light entities (without names or are targeted, which is pretty much all of mine) don't add to the entity limit. Almost all my lighting uses entity lights, but 'bar lighting' (the stairs down, for example) uses texturelights, because entity lights are POINTlights, not AREAlights.

[BobTheJanitor]

An info_texlight entity isn't actually a light. It's an entity that contains texture lighting information. Pretty much the equivalent of putting your lights.rad file into your map. I'm honestly not sure if that adds to the entity count or not. It seems sensible that it would not. However, this is still the half life engine we're talking about. The way it handles entity code is already very stupid, so I can't make any assumptions.

[Satiagraha]

Hmm... still no scoreboard, and I don't freeze in the beginning, and no, i'm not using the map command, i'm using WC 3.5 and starting the server using it's run game command at the end of compiling. I'm running steam.exe with the following parameters: -applaunch 70 -game nsp -dev -console +map $file
any suggestions?

[confused!]

the reason for this horrible behavior is becuase sv_cheats defaults to 1. you can change it by editing listenserver.cfg(it might be server.cfg i cant recall). or typing sv_cheats 0 in console





info_textlights: i find that a .rad file works better for me just a style thing. also, i assume this entity is removed at runtime as it is desigend to pas information to the compiler during rad.

env_particles_custom:i have heard that in game particle system editing is back in but i am unsure, i know it wasn't in the private 3 betas. ns particle system tutorial if it doesnt work as adveritzed i have cunningly hosted teh NSTR2.0 installer which does allow in game particel system editing.  if you need it you can get it from here : http://maps.confusionville.net/files/nstr2_install.exe


i appologize for spelling its late here

[BobTheJanitor]

Ingame particle editing isn't doing jack as of beta 3. Typing editps [whatever] in the console just does nothing. My best suggestion is to build your PS in a tiny test map so you can recompile until it's perfect, then put it in your main map.

[Satiagraha]

I'm not getting any particles...

env_particles_custom
Name: testparticles
Generation entity:
Generation shape: Point
Generation shape parms:
Generation rate: 50
Particle sprite: sprites/hack.spr
Animation frames in sprite: 1
Maximum particles: 50
Particle size: 1
System lifetime: -1
Particle lifetime: -1
Starting velocity shape: Point
Starting velocity params: 10,10,10,0,0,0,0,0
Scale particle over lifetime: 1
Particle max alpha: 1
Render mode: Additive
Generate system on collision:
Animation speed: 1

Flags
start on
particle density
collide

 :huh:

Perhaps bob, with his infinite wisdom, could point out an attribute which is erroraneous that I seem to miss?  Or to explain how to get particles? I read through the tutorial that confused! posted, and I understand all the concepts of the particle system, but I mainly learn by example







[EDIT]ok, I feel dumb, I just found NSTR... I'm taking a look at it right now[/EDIT]

[Satiagraha]

Horray! I got particles!

...playing around with the entity for a while until you finally reach that moment of bliss when the damn thing actually blurts out some particles.

I know what you mean.

I got particles to come out of an invisible func_illusionary.  The shape is set to box. I couldn't get it to come out of the center of the env_particles_custom entity though, I have use an entity for generation.



Particles!! ^_^

[zerwalter]

Oh em gee that is the coolest thing I have seen all week! *downloads valve hammer* *realizes this computer won't run HL* *sits dejectedly back in chair* *kicks "ergonomic" keyboard* haf

[BobTheJanitor]

Yeah to have it generated by the actual entity, from what I've gotten so far, you have to set the generation shape to 'point'. Which it seems you did... The velocity shape... hell, I can't even remember now. Getting them to be generated by another entity is pretty easy, as you can just set the flag for them to be affected by gravity instead of worrying about the velocity shape, and make a big nulled out func_illusionary brush for them to generate from. But then that's not very cool for anything beyond drip effects. Meh, I had a working one once... let's see... (checks old test map)

Yeah, velocity shape 'box' and starting velocity paramaters '-25,-25,-25,25,25,25,0,0' which is basically a 50x50x50 box for them to spawn towards in random directions. Also it doesn't seem to like certain sprites for some reason, but I got it to work with flare3.spr, which is the same one res nodes use. For useful particle effects, like steam vents and so on, I think we'll need to harass esuna into coming to help.

[confused!]

well, lets see
 if you are doing a point entity the params line is initial velocity in each axis, of course i can't really recall which ones are which axis right now  as i dont used env_particles _custom too much recently.    if you se it to 0,0,0,0,0,0, however many there are it will just float in space.  but im not sure if thts what you are lloking for when in doubt play with nstr and you can figure it our. nstr availbe in pervious post by me. anyway, yeah.