The Third Hive

[SaltzBad]

Ah okay. We can still boost Xenocide, just because right? :p

[BobTheJanitor]

Xeno does 200 damage if you're suckered onto the marine's face like a starfish on glass. Otherwise the most you can hope to get is about 180, because the blast radius of Xeno is quite small and the marines usually don't give you time to carefully attach yourself like a plastique explosive, they prefer to shoot you when you leap in screaming. I'd like it to have a larger 'ground zero' for starters, and then also have it's damage upped to 230, the equivalent of an a2 now, going by civ's data. That should make those pesky a1's die at least.

[Ulatoh]

web should soooooo be a 2nd hive ability, and give it to lerks, give primal to gorgs, just fer kicks

[That Annoying Kid]

Hm.. I think i bant the third hive awhile ago.. that might be a problem

thers no real reason for it, unless the marines have a huge turret farm

or the marines are starting to work on HA trains, xenociding does damage to everyone around you, so it is usefull in keeping HA trains disoriented, esp when MC's can take you to the hive that is being attacked allowing for 3 reins at a time [three hives] and xenocide

[Sancho]

Is it just me or are webs buggy in 3.0?

*Sancho takes out welder and walks towards webs whilst welding*

*Sancho gets caught in webs anyway*

Also, I thought Flayra said welders were supposed to unweb other marines.  I've tried this and it doesn't work.

[Ulatoh]

webs should hold just as long as they do, and damage the armor

[Geminosity]

webs should be monofiliment that slices marines in half XD

[Satiagraha]

webs should be monofiliment that slices marines in half XD

kind of like those lasers in Resident Evil the movie!  :lol:

seriously, I hate most of the 3rd abilities, many times I wish that I could've traded them in for extra hitpoints/armor or speed or something.

[SaltzBad]

Hm.. I think i bant the third hive awhile ago.. that might be a problem

thers no real reason for it, unless the marines have a huge turret farm

or the marines are starting to work on HA trains, xenociding does damage to everyone around you, so it is usefull in keeping HA trains disoriented, esp when MC's can take you to the hive that is being attacked allowing for 3 reins at a time [three hives] and xenocide

Wow, a lightly disorienting hive three ability. I'm phearing.

[Black Mage]

if they brought foco-xeno back, trust me ... hive three would be pheared

[Cold-NiTe]

if they brought foco-xeno back, trust me ... hive three would be pheared

Does focus work with Xeno at all?

[a civilian]

Only first-slot abilities are affected by focus.

[Cold-NiTe]

Only first-slot abilities are affected by focus.

That is just plain stupid.  Acid Rocket would be somewhat more tolerable with focus....

[lolfighter]

Focusxeno was rendering Combat unplayable though. And you know how Combat is so holy that they'd rather throw Classic out and alienate the community than DARE touch Combat. Different stats for each gametype? BLASPHEMY! TO THE STAKE WITH HIM! CLEANSE HIM BY THE FLAME!

[a civilian]

I believe it is best that focus only affect first-slot abilities.  It avoids much confusion about which abilities are affected and in what way by focus.  It also avoids balance problems that focused high-energy-cost abilities would bring (it essentially functions as adrenaline does).

Also, the ability to focus one's xenocides would be a problem in classic NS.  Third hive should be powerful, certainly, but it should not so powerful as to allow the lowest alien to eradicate entire groups of marines with ease.

[SaltzBad]

Why would it be a problem in classic? You can barely get Hive3 up in under ~10 minutes or so, and that'd probably mean you'll need two dedicated people for hiving. Add in that you'll need to hold down those 3 locations, and getting 3 hives is pretty tricky - certainly if an Alien team can get there, the effect should be similiarly strong to say getting a HA train.

And Focus-Xeno would do what, kill LA marines quickly? Thats not sooooo aweful.

[Geminosity]

it might be the lowest alien but it's the highest tech (without upgrades) of it.  Like an LA with lvl 3 armour and weapons =P

I'd say that's more than fair enough considering the xeno makes the skulk have to sit out for a bit after the attack... just make it xenofocus has double rein time or something ~shrugs~

[Cold-NiTe]

it might be the lowest alien but it's the highest tech (without upgrades) of it.  Like an LA with lvl 3 armour and weapons =P

I'd say that's more than fair enough considering the xeno makes the skulk have to sit out for a bit after the attack... just make it xenofocus has double rein time or something ~shrugs~

Like Gem said above, and Saltzbad before him/her, it is the Highest TIER of the lowest class.  Considering how long it takes to get a hive, its worth it.

[a civilian]

Why would it be a problem in classic? You can barely get Hive3 up in under ~10 minutes or so, and that'd probably mean you'll need two dedicated people for hiving. Add in that you'll need to hold down those 3 locations, and getting 3 hives is pretty tricky - certainly if an Alien team can get there, the effect should be similiarly strong to say getting a HA train.

Third hive should be strong, true, but it should not automatically mean the game is over.  If the marines are winning the resource war they should retain a reasonable chance of winning.  Doubled damage for xenocide, as with focus, would be extremely powerful, and if used well it would invariably render the game unwinnable for the marines.

You cannot truly compare a long-term investment such as a hive to a short-term investment such as a heavy armor train.  The heavy armor train may be more powerful at first, but in the long run the hive is ultimately more powerful.

And Focus-Xeno would do what, kill LA marines quickly? Thats not sooooo aweful.

I certainly see it as a problem.  Why should the fully upgraded base tech of one team render the fully upgraded base tech of the other team obsolete?  Furthermore, the power of focused xenocide would not be limited to light marines.  A single focused xenocide would inflict severe damage on even heavily armored marines.

it might be the lowest alien but it's the highest tech (without upgrades) of it.  Like an LA with lvl 3 armour and weapons =P

Therefore it should be similar in strength to a fully upgraded light marine, rather than far surpassing it as it would if it could use focus with xenocide.

I'd say that's more than fair enough considering the xeno makes the skulk have to sit out for a bit after the attack... just make it xenofocus has double rein time or something ~shrugs~

The fact that xenocide kills the Skulk is largely irrelevant considering that Skulks generally die regardless of whether or not they use xenocide.  Also, I doubt an additional 7 seconds spent in the spawn queue would matter.  More than that might matter; however, forcing players to spend much time out of the game is not something I have any great desire to do.

[DiscoZombie]

I think Saltz makes a compelling argument... beef up Xeno, maybe put in a penalty... like, slower spawn in combat, or perhaps a res cost in classic... 2 to 7 res per xeno or something...

3rd hive really does seem frivolous most of the time... it gets thrown up if someone has nothing better to do, but that's rarely the case...

maybe the abilities shouldn't be touched but hives should go up faster, so that it's possible to get the 3rd up earlier?  that would make a kind of 'hive rush' more feasable... and marines would actually have to be nervous about early xeno and stuff...

...not that the marines don't have enough to worry about already...