Author Topic: Ns 3.0 Thoughts  (Read 26407 times)

January 27, 2004, 07:07:44 AM
Reply #40

Malevolent

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I agree a little with Ven too, although the problems should be fixed. It is his game, but I think that Flayra will realize eventually that he'll need to listen to actually go somewhere with his company (especially to start off). The only thing I cannot stand at all is the lag (when combined with my high ping already; then it gets really bad sometimes). I also find it somewhat amusing that you guys complain about a 200+ ping when I play with it all the time (but that's off-topic).

Another thing Ven mentioned was that you need to adapt to the new version. This is very true for regular NS. If you're in a group of skuks, you can take out marines easy -- the same is true for Combat (although still not as effective).

Now back to Flayra; he receives all these donations, and I'm sure that he doesn't just use it to by things he wants. If he has any business sense (which I'm sure he does), he'll use it to further NS.

Lastly, this is a beta, and all the quirks will eventually get pretty much worked out. And of course, not everyone will be happy with the end result, but then a lot of people will be. We just need to be somewhat optimistic.
It's twice as clear as heaven and twice as loud as reason.

January 27, 2004, 08:11:15 AM
Reply #41

BobTheJanitor

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The 'it's HIS game' thing is starting to get a little tiring. Take away the whole community, tomorrow. Everyone that ever played NS suddenly starts playing medal of honor instead and never looks back. Flayra is the ONLY ONE left with HIS GAME... Now how long do you think he is going to continue to feverishly develop it?

Exactly.

He's developing the game for people to play. It's a multiplayer game; ever tried to play NS by yourself? Wheee, fun, right? I realize that he created the game, but now that the game has a following in the tens of thousands that support it and even donate their hard earned money to furthering its development, I do believe that he owes the community his respect. Considering and at least responding to requests that are made by hundreds of people won't hurt anything. Reasonable arguments, besides 'TEH NS SI MAI GAME OLOLO!' are always good. The community supports 'his game' and we have made it 'our game'. If he desperately wants to keep it HIS game, he can keep ignoring the community, and eventually it'll start to fall apart.

Edit: Also: Aliens = individual powerhouse, marines = teamwork
3.0? Aliens = teamwork, marines = individual powerhouse

An onos shouldn't need an entourage of a lerk for umbra, a gorge for healspray, a fade for distracting enemies, and a skulk to actually bite people for him. An onos should be able to PWN on his own. An onos attacking a fully upgraded marine base should need help, not an onos attacking a few heavies. That's what the onos are around for.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2004, 08:14:07 AM by BobTheJanitor »

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there are a lot of aaaa...mmmmm.... "HAPPY" pirates on this ship. -GrayDuck

January 27, 2004, 10:24:10 AM
Reply #42

LaYkE

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- Combat: I love it. I usually go Damage 1 - Shotty - HMG - Armor 1 - Armor 2 - HA - Resupply, and I almost always end with the most kills. However, jetpacks in combat are horrifyingly unbalanced, as the marines just fly past you and blow the hell out of your hive. Die, repeat. Though all the reserved slot holders being able to vote maps means every game is combat, it's beginning to piss me off.

 - NS 3.0:

1) Skulks are way too weak. I went through a game with 6 deaths and about 40 kills because they're so easy to kill. Most of em couldn't even get close.

2) Electricity is WAY overpowered. I could put a TFac in Engine Room on Tanith and it'd launch a bolt of lightning across the map and up an onos' ass in Feedwater hive.

3) Stomp was "fixed" by making it only 1 second. However, Flayra actually managed to skate around the whole fact that the reason it's overpowered is that a stomp is longer then most hallways.

4) Hand grenades are neat, but overpowered. A lot. They're like handheld siege cannons. Just whip 'em at an OC and it gets blown halfway to hell.

5) I've almost never seen an alien win. In co_ or ns_.
Iv'e played combat quite a bit alright, but like yourself Bob I am absolutly sick of it. Every map all the time combat (not just on LM). Flayra has said that the NS team will be concentrating on NS classic much more the combat for the moment which i'm overjoyed to hear.
I eventually removed peoples right to execute votemap as it was CO, CO, CO, Ns for 1 min(votmap the  comes into play), CO, CO, CO. Fair nuff it's new, it's enjoyable for a change* and I play it but.. call me old fashioned i'm an NS classic man. Also Combat is MUCH more attractive to nubs as it's simpler to comprehend and has a much more straight forward goal. Thus as soon as the nubs discover votemap your going to be playing quite a lot.

1)I dissagree, Skulks are far from weak. Cloaking + Focus = V unhappy marines(or the famed xeno runs). IMO they are only really useful at the start of the game when marines are faily light armour.

2)Yeh elecy is way overpowered for skulks & Lerks. Not so much fades and Onos. I have many a time sat comfortably in between a wall and a tf and smashed it up without being shocked to death.

3)Stomp... I like and dislike the whole stomp thing. Idealy (in my mind) it should knock marines back or down rather then stun them. It IS the only thing that keeps Onos alive imo. How many times have we seen a 1 hive Onos attempt to take down 2 or 3 heavies, it doesn't happen tbh, Onos goes in without Stomp does sweet F.A and either is running away after 2 seconds

4)Yeh they are a bit powerful alright but I think they should have the power of a grenade from a gren launcher. Also Marines really need them to clear out OC's and such. Ideal with less power.

5)Iv'e seen Aliens win lots. Although I know what you mean about the JP rushes it's VERY annoying when you know they are going to lose, next thing JP's zip by and it's game over. Also in the earlier versions Gorges used to web EVERYTHING and game over for marines. Gorges were subsiquently removed from the game after this.

January 27, 2004, 10:24:32 AM
Reply #43

Niteowl

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i read through this entire thread just to see if there was more delectable Uranium goodness. that post he made wwwaaaay back on page one was pure, unadulterated, refined 10 times, filtered twice through swiss mountain streams, cleaned 100 times by virgin nuns, GOLD!!!!!!!


so gold.
"I don't have to know an answer, I don't feel frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in a mysterious universe without any purpose, which is the way it really is as far as I can tell. It doesn't frighten me."
-Richard Feynman

January 27, 2004, 10:38:44 AM
Reply #44

Leaderz0rz

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blame the costies for this version? we had atleast 4 good different ideas to fix every problem in the game, and flayra didn't  even take notice,

January 27, 2004, 11:27:03 AM
Reply #45

Uranium - 235

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i read through this entire thread just to see if there was more delectable Uranium goodness. that post he made wwwaaaay back on page one was pure, unadulterated, refined 10 times, filtered twice through swiss mountain streams, cleaned 100 times by virgin nuns, GOLD!!!!!!!


so gold.
You think that'd be worth some sort of title, wouldn't you...

January 27, 2004, 12:23:16 PM
Reply #46

BobTheJanitor

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You think that'd be worth some sort of title, wouldn't you...
My vote is for 'so cute when he's angry'.

Lunixmonster: Banning the NS community one smacktard at a time. -lolfighter
there are a lot of aaaa...mmmmm.... "HAPPY" pirates on this ship. -GrayDuck

January 27, 2004, 02:05:05 PM
Reply #47

Diablus

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3)Stomp... I like and dislike the whole stomp thing. Idealy (in my mind) it should knock marines back or down rather then stun them. It IS the only thing that keeps Onos alive imo. How many times have we seen a 1 hive Onos attempt to take down 2 or 3 heavies, it doesn't happen tbh, Onos goes in without Stomp does sweet F.A and either is running away after 2 seconds


even  WITH stomp the onos does nothing. The supposidly "tank" of aliens is being killed by 3 LA marines with level 2-3 weapons. better off dropping 7 chambers then wasting 75 on something that if marines have heavies WONT counter it, i tried to counter 5 marines guarding a siege area with 3 turrets to help them, not only did i make it out with 50 hp, i only hit one of them once and they spread out thus, stomp is one second. i stomp one they shoot i try to stomp the other one the other huy who i stomped is shooting at me. and with fixed hitboxes onos seem more of a joke then something to be worried about. now 2 HA is something aliens should worry about even at hive 2 in 3.0

btw bob, i do agree with u how alien are the ones requiring teamwork. all marines need is 1 guy to sit in base, 2-3 to goto a node area to cap it and the rest go off doing whatever they want early game. while aleins need 1 person to save for the hive, 1 to drop chambers and the REST to drop 1 node or more. now in a pub do u actually think people are going to listen? No. thats why marines are winning, but playing in SunnyD aliens have been winning too. but barly, the only time ive seen total ownage is when holy is on our team and puts mariens behind in tech from his rush then a 3 min hive
« Last Edit: January 27, 2004, 02:07:19 PM by Diablus »

January 27, 2004, 02:27:15 PM
Reply #48

Niteowl

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Quote
i read through this entire thread just to see if there was more delectable Uranium goodness. that post he made wwwaaaay back on page one was pure, unadulterated, refined 10 times, filtered twice through swiss mountain streams, cleaned 100 times by virgin nuns, GOLD!!!!!!!


so gold.
You think that'd be worth some sort of title, wouldn't you...
gah! okok, i'm off to craft you one from the bowels of the deepest Sig Mines!!
"I don't have to know an answer, I don't feel frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in a mysterious universe without any purpose, which is the way it really is as far as I can tell. It doesn't frighten me."
-Richard Feynman

January 27, 2004, 03:08:36 PM
Reply #49

a civilian

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...and the REST to drop 1 node or more.
I'd imagine that that's part of the reason why they're losing so badly.  Because of philosophies like this one, and because players who save for an early higher lifeform are typically despised and referred to as "resource whores."  As a result of this, higher lifeforms rarely appear at the time when they can make the biggest difference to the outcome of the game.

---

The aliens rarely produce higher lifeforms in the early game.  Additionally, the ones they do get are usually inexperienced or downright newbie.  Also, they rarely work together like the marines do, or like they did in 1.04.  They are not utilizing their power.  Is it really such a surprise that they are losing so consistently?  In 2.0x, the aliens could get away with not fully utilizing their power, simply because they were overpowered.  Now, in 3.0, they no longer can.

That said, I do agree that the balance is off.  I only disagree as to the extent.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2004, 03:17:15 PM by a civilian »

January 27, 2004, 04:08:48 PM
Reply #50

Legionnaired

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3.0 Has some balance issues, verily. However, they can be corrected with a few simple fixes:

Electricity covers just the turret factory or node, and costs only 10 res to implement.

Cat-Packs fixed.

Focus makes your first attack a hold-down deal. Hold down the button for 3 seconds, and when releasing, the attack has a 300% boost (Enough for a skulk to take out a LA with armor 3 in one hit, and enough for an onos to obliterate a heavy in a single gore.) However, for however long the button is held down, that same ammount of time is required before the attack can begin charging again.


Extra ideas:

Give the commander the ability to drop extra packs of grenades. 3 Grenades for 5 res, with the Upgraded armory and the grenade upgrade.

Beef up the fade armor and health / Decrease the drain from blink. This will give it the ability to stand up to one HMG or 2 Shotguns.

Add a "freelook" feature to the lerk, where when holding down control, the lerk still drifts in it's original direction, but can move it's view. This gives it the ability to make strafing runs without having to dive down into an electrified turret base. This makes it slightly less like a F22 and more like a commanche. Also, upon releasing the key, lerk automatically turns in the direction the head is pointed, giving the ability to do awesome 90 degree turns.

On a side note: I love the new lerk, and am going to focus on being the scariest damn lerk evar.

January 27, 2004, 04:26:15 PM
Reply #51

DumbMarine

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About focus and 1 hit kills, 1 hit kills are bad. Focus does need  some sort of advantage to using, but 1 hit kills? Especially at armor 3...

I think a better idea would be to use an armory to get grenades back. Although this would probably result in nade spam at some point...

I think  they were actively trying to nerf blink in 3.0...



Wow, when I get NS 3.0 working on my comp, I'll complain about it more. The only thing I can say is, why is my pistol firing so slow?!?

January 27, 2004, 04:49:36 PM
Reply #52

Legionnaired

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About focus and 1 hit kills, 1 hit kills are bad. Focus does need  some sort of advantage to using, but 1 hit kills? Especially at armor 3...

I think a better idea would be to use an armory to get grenades back. Although this would probably result in nade spam at some point...

I think  they were actively trying to nerf blink in 3.0...



Wow, when I get NS 3.0 working on my comp, I'll complain about it more. The only thing I can say is, why is my pistol firing so slow?!?
I suppose you're right, but focus should do at least something against armor 3.

January 27, 2004, 05:55:55 PM
Reply #53

Lito

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Focus makes your first attack a hold-down deal. Hold down the button for 3 seconds, and when releasing, the attack has a 300% boost (Enough for a skulk to take out a LA with armor 3 in one hit, and enough for an onos to obliterate a heavy in a single gore.) However, for however long the button is held down, that same ammount of time is required before the attack can begin charging again.


Extra ideas:

Give the commander the ability to drop extra packs of grenades. 3 Grenades for 5 res, with the Upgraded armory and the grenade upgrade.
focus idea: Not bad, however if i were an onos, i could easily take out a whole squad of marines:

charge up gore and take out one HA,
eat another HA,
stomp the rest for your support to take down.

of course, if the charge-up delay affects the rest of the abilities, focus would be unused because it leaves you defenseless after you attack with it, and if you make the delay too short, then you can take out all that HA in 10 seconds.

grenade idea:  will just lead to grenade spam.  Imagine you have two - three marines at a hive, you give them a couple grenade packs each and they'll jsut spam grenades at the hive, and it'll drop before many could get to a movement chamber/the hive
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January 27, 2004, 08:23:03 PM
Reply #54

DumbMarine

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Yes, focus should actually matter aganst armor 3, maybe have it only require 2 bites to kill instead of 4. I've seen focus, and unless I lagged on my own server, the delay of attack went up by 300%? That's madness... I thought it would be a negligent thing, like 25% speed reduction, not "Now you must wait  2 seconds before biting." Cmon, be fair :(


Onos have charge. I hear from the logs that this is now a 'one touch kill non heavies' and a 'three touch kill heavies' or something like that. THAT is pretty scary :\


And as for grenades, although yeah, grenade spam would be a problem, grenades do not fall under the category of mines, you get them as you spawn. Why should  I have to type 'kill' just to get another grenade? Maybe make it so it takes 15 seconds 'reloading' the grenade... or somethng

January 27, 2004, 09:12:32 PM
Reply #55

a civilian

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Focus, in my opinion, should never have been added.  It is a nice upgrade, assuredly, but it does little to improve the viability of the sensory chamber.  The sensory chamber lacks versatility.  All of its upgrades, along with its effect, are generally geared toward the same tactics: ambushing, and hit-and-run strikes.  Focus is no different.  Because of this, once the marines counter these tactics, the sensory chamber becomes for the most part worthless.  The sensory chamber needs more versatility if it is to become a viable choice.


[edit]
Quote
And as for grenades, although yeah, grenade spam would be a problem, grenades do not fall under the category of mines, you get them as you spawn. Why should  I have to type 'kill' just to get another grenade? Maybe make it so it takes 15 seconds 'reloading' the grenade... or somethng
Agreed.  It makes no sense and is completely unbelievable that a marine who spent his grenade would want to suicide so that a replacement who has a grenade would be sent.
[/edit]
« Last Edit: January 27, 2004, 09:44:51 PM by a civilian »

January 27, 2004, 10:01:02 PM
Reply #56

BobTheJanitor

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On the nades: It's the old gameplay > realism thing. Sure, it doesn't make sense to only get one and no more until you die. But they're so freaking strong that if you could load up on them then just about any alien chamber would be worthless, falling to nadespam. That's why the GL has a higher cost, and makes the wielder pretty vulnerable, unless they want to GL their feet to take out skulks.

On the focus: Yes, now that the novelty is wearing off, I begin to realize that it's about worthless. Against a lone marine, sure it's fun to run up behind him and chomp him in one hit... but if you can't kill a lone armor 0 marine from behind anyway, there's a problem. And when chomping buildings... it should AT LEAST do an equal amount of damage over time as unfocused biting, if not more. It's like focus is the counter for itself... everything good it gives you, it gives something bad back in return. This is the ability that will save sensory from being the last ridiculed chamber?

And as far as res whores/res hoarders/whatever you call them: It's the many and obvious bad people who have given the few good ones a bad name here. When someone jumps in, drops no RTs, doesn't save for hive, doesn't even drop a chamber, goes fade/onos ASAP and then whines that no one will drop him DCs/MCs, only to die thirty seconds later and then LEAVE THE GAME... well, that's where the animosity comes from, and it happens far too often. If someone says right off 'guys, I'm a very good fade, if I fade early I'll probably last for the rest of the game, and I'll keep marines distracted and take out elec'ed RTs' and so forth, THAT'S GREAT. Hoard that res buddy, you'll be helping the team.

This is why civilian always has an open pass to save for fade, or why LB gets to save for onos without complaints (preemptive: it's not just because it's his server olo bant omg). They're just really GOOD at it, and they help the team a lot.

Lunixmonster: Banning the NS community one smacktard at a time. -lolfighter
there are a lot of aaaa...mmmmm.... "HAPPY" pirates on this ship. -GrayDuck

January 28, 2004, 12:06:52 AM
Reply #57

Leaderz0rz

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they were weak, and semi usful verses ocs and such, then flayra upped the damage and made it explode on contact, then the next day said he was releasing 3.0 so it never got tested. and eletricity was brought up every day almost, and never got changed.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2004, 12:07:25 AM by Leaderz0rz »

January 28, 2004, 12:45:29 AM
Reply #58

BobTheJanitor

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This sums up the problems with electricity better than anything else.

OUR HIVE IS UNDER ATTACK!

Lunixmonster: Banning the NS community one smacktard at a time. -lolfighter
there are a lot of aaaa...mmmmm.... "HAPPY" pirates on this ship. -GrayDuck

January 28, 2004, 01:10:35 AM
Reply #59

@gentOrange

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OMG that's insane! I knew it was upped a bit but wowza!
Sig size too big, 22kb is the max size, yours is 28kb - DHP