Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?

[Reasa]

It's probably redundant, but given the state of NS now, I may as well say it.

I think we can all agree that the older versions of NS we're much more fun, unique, and enjoyable then the current version.

It seems with every release they aim to shoot themselves in the foot and their core supporters in the groin.

If NS had been first released in its current state I doubt it would have been even half as popular as it was.

The fact that it wasn't another bland run-and-gun watered down pro-CSer mod was what made it so popular, and you would think that the people who created it would be able to understand that.

[lolfighter]

I donated.


Bryan

[snapback]53866[/snapback]

Precisely. You donated. You didn't buy anything. Of course, you get more donations if you make a great game, and less if the game is poor. Therefore, NS falls under the same rule as commercial games: The better the game, the more money you make. But you can't buy NS. You get NS for free. And if you want to give some money as thanks, you're welcome. But if the developers were to say "hey, quit the whining. It's like we owe you anything," they would be completely right (and get hugely unpopular).

I'm not belittling your donation, I'm just calling a fish a fish. You didn't buy anything, you donated. If anything, you bought an ingame icon, a forum access and the privilege to beta test. But you didn't buy the game.

[Leaderz0rz]

You donate in hopes that it helps develope the game and keep it enjoyable for you. You want to support things you believe in. When they start destroying somthing you believed in and everything starts going down hill you second guess if you should of donated or not. They need to get on the ball and get the forums up and the website up and release media and such every 2 weeks or so for their next release. They need to give people a REASON to look at the website and to check the forums like they did way back when.

[lolfighter]

Can't disagree there.

[Necrosis]

I'm a constie and i didnt even play the new beta. I mean, whats the point, good or bad I'm playing it for the community. Without the community, there's nothing to enjoy.

So now its back to single player RTS games... saddening.

[SwiftSpear]

Meh, I still play when I can.  NS will stagnate for the time being, the game certianly isn't growing any more.  But there's still NSA to play on, and there's always a scrim somewhere.  I think it's a good thing that most of the pubbers are getting bored of the game.  The time between now and an NS:S release isn't going to be pleasant for those sticking through with this game.  It's probably best for all of us if people who don't like playing the game as it is right now just stop and come back in a year or two when the project has a new face and they can look on it with new eyes.

[Fewlio]

Swift makes a good point, except I think it will be more than a year or two.

[SwiftSpear]

Swift makes a good point, except I think it will be more than a year or two.

[snapback]53936[/snapback]

Depends on how much can be resused and how much needs to be generated from scratch...  Rumor over the grapevine is that at least one texture set has been rebuilt already, and some fun new models are halfway through being worked up...

[2_of_8]

Just because the forums are down, doesn't mean that the devs have abandoned NS and spent all your constie money on comic books. Do not assume that work is not going on unless you have reason to believe so.

[Fewlio]

Just because the forums are down, doesn't mean that the devs have abandoned NS and spent all your constie money on comic books. Do not assume that work is not going on unless you have reason to believe so.

[snapback]53941[/snapback]

Well it's more of a lack of communication, we feel like we are being left in the dark and that the developers don't care about the community anymore. Work being done doesn't matter if there is no one left to care or play.

[aeroripper]

Depends on how much can be resused and how much needs to be generated from scratch... Rumor over the grapevine is that at least one texture set has been rebuilt already, and some fun new models are halfway through being worked up...

What material has been started on for NS:S? Textures, maps, code?

We've got two player models in varying stages of competition, two sets of textures ported, and our mappers have not been idle, though there is not yet an organized drive in that area. We'll start serious codework once v3.1 is out of the way.

[TheAdj]

First, to those of you who think "vets" have all the input on the game, you are full of horse manure.  Competitive players make up a small portion of the PT team, and our voices are just a few of the many trying to have input on the game.  Some do influence certain areas of the game, I spent many hours with puzl working on lerk flight mechanics for example, however our voices are still just mixed into the cacophony of the others.  

Next, to those of you talking crap about UWE:  How many of you run a business?  How many of you have been managers and had to do something completely new that you knew little about?  It takes experience to do these things, and experience comes from time doing something plus learning from mistakes made while doing it.  I'm sure some of you are fed up with it, and if you are you probably don't belong in a game community being created by amateur-trying to turn pro-game developers.  I'll personally pick up NS again once I'm back from Asscrackistan and continue PTing it just like I did before because I enjoy the game, I see it's potential for expansion, and who knows, I might make a part time job out of PTing later games from UWE because I stuck with it.  

If you're willing to hang with it, do so, otherwise hop off the bandwagon so everyone else doesn't have to hear it.  While everyone is entitled to their opinion, no one wants to hear whiners, they drag everyone else down.  I understand this is a fairly civil open discussion, and while I also don't side with the "it's free so don't complain" people, bitching will not fix the problem.

[SwiftSpear]

How much longer are you out adj?  I thought I remembered the date in your sig being some time soon...

[Reasa]

Next, to those of you talking crap about UWE:  How many of you run a business?  How many of you have been managers and had to do something completely new that you knew little about?  It takes experience to do these things, and experience comes from time doing something plus learning from mistakes made while doing it.  I'm sure some of you are fed up with it, and if you are you probably don't belong in a game community being created by amateur-trying to turn pro-game developers.  I'll personally pick up NS again once I'm back from Asscrackistan and continue PTing it just like I did before because I enjoy the game, I see it's potential for expansion, and who knows, I might make a part time job out of PTing later games from UWE because I stuck with it. 

If you're willing to hang with it, do so, otherwise hop off the bandwagon so everyone else doesn't have to hear it.  While everyone is entitled to their opinion, no one wants to hear whiners, they drag everyone else down.  I understand this is a fairly civil open discussion, and while I also don't side with the "it's free so don't complain" people, bitching will not fix the problem.

[snapback]53957[/snapback]

Its precisely because I so much enjoyed this game and its unique community that I am so disappointed with what has been happening as of late.

Certainly bitching doesn’t accomplish much, but nether does flushing away a large part of your fan base because you can't take the time to make a simple update every few days.

Lets face it Capitalism is a rather unforgiving system, you ether have what it takes to run a business or you don't. Does UWE seem like the kind of business you would want to invest a large amount of money in? Their like that kid in high-school who was incredibly talented and creative, but lacked common sense and any type of work ethic. What happens to that kid once he/she leaves high-school and enters the real world?

Someone looking to invest $20,000 isn't going to say "OMG lookzs whatz you guyzz did with teh HL1 engine OMG!!!!1" They are going to notice the poor management, the consistently missed self-set deadlines, and the general decline of a highly marketable commodity.

I don't want to hear any whining ether, but if we all just keep our mouths shut and join the ever lessening rank and file, nothing is going to change. There isn't anything wrong with constructive criticism.

If they ever manage to get there act together I’ll gladly hop right back into what’s left of the community. I just hope that time comes soon enough.

[Lightning Blue]

Someone looking to invest $20,000 isn't going to say "OMG lookzs whatz you guyzz did with teh HL1 engine OMG!!!!1" They are going to notice the poor management, the consistently missed self-set deadlines, and the general decline of a highly marketable commodity.

I don't want to hear any whining ether, but if we all just keep our mouths shut and join the ever lessening rank and file, nothing is going to change. There isn't anything wrong with constructive criticism.

If they ever manage to get there act together I’ll gladly hop right back into what’s left of the community. I just hope that time comes soon enough.

[snapback]53970[/snapback]

Quoted.

[tankefugl (in a tent)]

But who are you talking to, if this is constructive criticism? I sure ain't a part of UWE, and I doublt Flayra visits this forum often.

There are some things I agree with in this thread, and some things that are very far off from the reality. I'm not going to attempt to defend it, as it serves no real purpose.

I will instead attempt to shed some light on what the reality UWE and the NS Team has to live with.

TheAdj is very correct when he speaks of the issues of starting your own thing. I've been there myself, and I know it's demanding and takes a lot of work seemingly for nothing.

The main issue with UWE is that it has to make money to live. And that's totally legit. If that means paying less attention to the current NS, so be it. They don't earn money on it, and any potential earnings from loyal customers is way too far ahead to consider.

Investors don't pay attention to missed deadlines, they pay attention to its ability to earn money, and maintaining a free game is not something an investor will benefit from. Investors are there for one thing only, to get more money back than they put in.

So what does UWE have to do? They have to take contract work, form their buisness plan, possibly make a prototype of the game (see Charlie's blog), get contacts and talents, and form something they can actually get investors to look at and get interested in.

Of course, all your gripes aren't with UWE, some are with the NS Team itself, which consist of volunteers (me including). So, what is our pay in this? What's our interest? To have fun -- if we can't have fun maintaining the game, we have nothing here to do. You might claim we have a responsibility to the community or the game, but we actually do not. We have a responsibility to ourselves to have fun with what we do.

However, UWE is tied to NS in such a way that we can't do anything unless UWE backs us up. For example the website, which is handled by UWE alone. In that way, we actually become indirectly tied to UWEs day-by-day financial situation. UWE also controls the direction NS takes, and have an absolute veto to any proposal or change.

I hope this was helpful.

(Btw, I know some will complain to me about it, but I don't run anything here and I am not going to attempt to defend the situation as it is not something I have decided. This is purely informational.)

[Necrosis]

For the record, as much as I've found it hard to get playing NS, and as unhappy as I am with the site's outage, I still don't think its a game I can bring myself to abandon. Because really, for any of its flaws, there's the deep satisfaction of racebased classbased team objective play.

Which is something I can't really get to the same degree elsewhere, hahaha.