Author Topic: Pressure Control  (Read 4863 times)

May 23, 2005, 11:32:15 AM
Read 4863 times

Decimator

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After a recent bout of spawncamping accusations in a game I commed, I was wondering how the rest of you would go about killing pressure control without spawncamping.
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May 23, 2005, 11:41:36 AM
Reply #1

Goldy

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You can't. Aliens spawn in that long hallway, which is the only place to siege from. And if you were walking in you'd have to kill em all anyway. They were probably wrong.
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May 23, 2005, 12:11:17 PM
Reply #2

Dead_Meat

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if the majority of your team is there trying to build while having to shoot the aliens that are spawning it is not spawn camping.

as long as there is an effort to build for siege or an effort to shoot down a hive.

and that doesnt mean 2 guys sitting there killing spawning aliens with lmgs while everynow and then in between killing a couple of spawners putting a bullet in the hive





May 23, 2005, 12:34:12 PM
Reply #3

Necrosis

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Could always JP shotty rush instead of siege, just be fast about it.
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May 23, 2005, 01:30:12 PM
Reply #4

lithium

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well if the alien team was smart they would keep you out of their hive so that you wouldn't be able to spawn camp. Really the question that should be asked is who allows the marines to spawn camp? I don't hear marines cry about skulks camping the ip, it's just a way of finishing the game. I mean how do you win this game, oh yeah you stop the other team from spawning.

May 23, 2005, 01:39:00 PM
Reply #5

Decimator

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Actually lithium, pressure is a problem because the marines don't have to be in the hive itself to spawncamp.  Not only that, but if the marines do go inside they'll likely die because of the hive layout.
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May 23, 2005, 02:28:06 PM
Reply #6

Tooky

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I always thought that hive room was too small, but yeah, I wouldn't judge that as spawncamping.

May 23, 2005, 02:29:28 PM
Reply #7

esuna

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well if the alien team was smart they would keep you out of their hive so that you wouldn't be able to spawn camp. Really the question that should be asked is who allows the marines to spawn camp? I don't hear marines cry about skulks camping the ip, it's just a way of finishing the game. I mean how do you win this game, oh yeah you stop the other team from spawning.
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Since you're new to the server, i'll just assume you don't know about the "no spawncamping" rule.

Yes, i'm sure in competetive games it's your own fault for letting it happen, but here, it's bannable, so it SHOULDN'T be happening.


But Deci, the complaints about spawn camping weren't for the ones building in the hall and such, it was people like Force who were sat inside the hive room itself killing spawning skulks.
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May 23, 2005, 03:15:49 PM
Reply #8

Decimator

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I am aware of that esuna.  I didn't particularly like Force myself; I'm just calling this hive to attention since I almost always hear spawncamping complaints about it.  I also recall sending my marines in then pulling them back and seiging when they started dying, though I don't remember whether Force was in there before or after I did that.
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May 23, 2005, 07:28:49 PM
Reply #9

Necrosis

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Well if its a map problem, why not make a thread asking for it to be taken out of the cycle? I mean, since its causing so much of a problem.
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May 23, 2005, 08:36:29 PM
Reply #10

CryForMe

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People need to understand what spawncamping is. Spawncamping is sitting in a hive, doing nothing but waxing every skulk that spawns in. Setting up a siege point in the hallway in Pressure isnt spawncamping. For the record, there are 3 exits to pressure. The direct route down the hall, and a vent to either side. A crafty skulk could charge down the middle and make it out clean. It's much easier to take the vents. However, I do have to agree with the fact that if aliens are DUMB enough to let rines start setting up a siege RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR ONLY HIVE, then they deserve whats coming to them.
But so long as the rines are doing their job and building like good boys and girls, its not spawncamping, no matter how much the alien team whines about it. Plain and simple.
Edit: seeing what esuna said about this Force guy, i'd have to say that's spawncamping. You cant sit in the hive and pop off every spawner while your team builds. You have to be back with the team, providing COVER. What force did constitutes spawncamping. If he had been near the TF and covering the builders, it wouldnt have been.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2005, 08:38:52 PM by CryForMe »
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May 23, 2005, 08:50:13 PM
Reply #11

Legionnaired

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People need to understand what spawncamping is. Spawncamping is sitting in a hive, doing nothing but waxing every skulk that spawns in. Setting up a siege point in the hallway in Pressure isnt spawncamping. For the record, there are 3 exits to pressure. The direct route down the hall, and a vent to either side. A crafty skulk could charge down the middle and make it out clean. It's much easier to take the vents. However, I do have to agree with the fact that if aliens are DUMB enough to let rines start setting up a siege RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR ONLY HIVE, then they deserve whats coming to them.
But so long as the rines are doing their job and building like good boys and girls, its not spawncamping, no matter how much the alien team whines about it. Plain and simple.
Edit: seeing what esuna said about this Force guy, i'd have to say that's spawncamping. You cant sit in the hive and pop off every spawner while your team builds. You have to be back with the team, providing COVER. What force did constitutes spawncamping. If he had been near the TF and covering the builders, it wouldnt have been.
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That's where you get into some gray area. Who says that with his field of fire, he wasn't covering the builders?

IMO, if you being in the hive room serves a purpose other than just getting random kills and jamming their spawn Queue, all the more power to you. If you're there with your team, I should think that the lesser evil of capping spawners would overshadow the greater one of denying a marine team of a victory well-played because of an arbitrary rule, or perhaps even just prolonging the game.

May 23, 2005, 09:25:16 PM
Reply #12

mhawk

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Recycle base and relocate as close to the hive as you think you can get with 6 ip's , dont build an armory and tell your boys that their lives mean nothing, your only purpose is to empty your one clip into the hive.

May 23, 2005, 09:52:06 PM
Reply #13

CryForMe

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People need to understand what spawncamping is. Spawncamping is sitting in a hive, doing nothing but waxing every skulk that spawns in. Setting up a siege point in the hallway in Pressure isnt spawncamping. For the record, there are 3 exits to pressure. The direct route down the hall, and a vent to either side. A crafty skulk could charge down the middle and make it out clean. It's much easier to take the vents. However, I do have to agree with the fact that if aliens are DUMB enough to let rines start setting up a siege RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR ONLY HIVE, then they deserve whats coming to them.
But so long as the rines are doing their job and building like good boys and girls, its not spawncamping, no matter how much the alien team whines about it. Plain and simple.
Edit: seeing what esuna said about this Force guy, i'd have to say that's spawncamping. You cant sit in the hive and pop off every spawner while your team builds. You have to be back with the team, providing COVER. What force did constitutes spawncamping. If he had been near the TF and covering the builders, it wouldnt have been.
[snapback]49307[/snapback]

That's where you get into some gray area. Who says that with his field of fire, he wasn't covering the builders?

IMO, if you being in the hive room serves a purpose other than just getting random kills and jamming their spawn Queue, all the more power to you. If you're there with your team, I should think that the lesser evil of capping spawners would overshadow the greater one of denying a marine team of a victory well-played because of an arbitrary rule, or perhaps even just prolonging the game.
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I dont see it as gray area though. If youre looking at an overhead view of the PC Hive, you see that theres only one place that would provide the opportunity for a player to "cover the builders" building in the hallway and not have his back exposed to attack (allowing him to effectively spawncamp), and thats behind the Box on the floor in the middle of the hive.  Now, the problem with being in this position is the fact that you cant see if skulks come at you from the left or right, thus making it ineffective for spawncamping. Being on top of the box would leave you open from the back of whichever direction you were facing, so, this isnt a valid spot either. The most plausible spots are either on top of the broken pipes, or to the left of the hive as you're looking in (in the nook where aliens frequently drop chambers). But neither of those spots provide cover. They simply allow someone to gun down skulks without being in a dangerous position. This means that someone in the hive is either exposed to a rear attack (which means he wouldnt be spawncamping for long if you had 1-2 decent skulks), or hes NOT covering his team.
There is no gray area about covering the team. Either you're providing close cover by gunning down skulks that are rushing toward the build location, or you're camping the hive and waxing skulks before they have a chance to move more than a foot.
And furthermore, "the greater one of denying a marine team of a victory well-played because of an arbitrary rule, or perhaps even just prolonging the game"? Yes, im confused. How is aliens fighting back against a last hive siege a bigger problem than spawncamping? How is it a problem at all? That statement makes no sense. Aliens have every right to fight back, just as marines do when they turtle in Marine Spawn. You cant expect a team to just say "oh, look theyre setting up a siege outside our last hive, lets just sit here and die so we dont prolong the game." Thats absurd. Thats like having rines who are just gonna stand in MS and let a team of skulks kill everything without firing a shot because they happened to be able to rush that far without dying.
And if you think spawncamping is such an arbitrary rule, i'd like to see your take on it when you're playing rines, down to nothing but IP's and an onos sits in MS, not destroying the IP's, but devouring or killing every rine that spawns for a nice long while.  Then we'll see how arbitrary it is, or how fast you summon the powers of admindom to get rid of the rule-breaker.
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May 24, 2005, 02:05:42 AM
Reply #14

Guenhwyvar

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Although there are three exits from that hive, the problem is that a marine in the hallway looking into the hive with the RT at his back will have lots of chances to kill spawning skulks.  It has been mentioned that alens do spawn in that hallway, thus making that hallway in question part of the hive. Most aliens who spawn there with pretty much zero chance of survival against a marine in that hallway with semi decent aim.

May 24, 2005, 04:51:52 AM
Reply #15

SlickWill

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Well if its a map problem, why not make a thread asking for it to be taken out of the cycle? I mean, since its causing so much of a problem.
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Hahahahahahaha.  If that was the solution to all the problems we wouldn't have any maps to play in.  I second that notion.  Lets remove all maps from map cycle that have some sort of problem.  I will start vote with ns_tanith, because in fusion hive it is too easy for guy to get on the diagonal barrier and spawn camp.

May 24, 2005, 05:18:59 AM
Reply #16

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Well if its a map problem, why not make a thread asking for it to be taken out of the cycle? I mean, since its causing so much of a problem.
[snapback]49299[/snapback]

Hahahahahahaha.  If that was the solution to all the problems we wouldn't have any maps to play in.  I second that notion.  Lets remove all maps from map cycle that have some sort of problem.  I will start vote with ns_tanith, because in fusion hive it is too easy for guy to get on the diagonal barrier and spawn camp.
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So? fusion is still seigeable without spawncamping...  The issue here is weather or not X map works on LM, not weather or not X map has a minor bug that is annoying to play with.
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May 24, 2005, 12:37:39 PM
Reply #17

Goldy

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If marines are in that hallway just to kill aliens, then they are spawn camping. If their teammates are killing any very nearby structure (especially the hive), then they have a reason to be there. Even if the TF is right around the corner, marines need to cover that hallway. It's extremely difficult to hold a TF from BEHIND it.
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May 24, 2005, 09:50:22 PM
Reply #18

Leaderz0rz

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if you are sieging then its an attack on the hive and not really spawn camping, if you have 1 or 2 marine in a hive with no other marine around then its spawn camping

May 25, 2005, 03:58:54 PM
Reply #19

Absinthe

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Had I seen this yesterday I would’ve responded earlier. I was present during that game, so the accusations you claim were brought against you Dec were probably made by me. I’m not blaming you personally since comms can’t force players to anything. But nothing ticks me off more than double standards, in particular, rules that I’m forced to follow and yet other people apparently aren’t. Just to set the record straight, I’d have no problem if the spawn camping rule wasn’t in effect; it’d be no different than when I play on other servers where it’s allowed (encouraged even). I can’t remember everyone playing in that particular game: Decimator was comm. for the marine team, and the two players in question at the time were FORCE and [ICECREAM]Jerry (I think it was jerry, icecream tag for sure). On the alien side I can’t really remember (me, DHP, others), but that’s irrelevant.

Our main (and only) hive at the time was Pressure, although during this scenario a gorge that was outside near coldturn eventually dropped Hama. Both force / icecream had pretty decent aim, of course we only had skulks at the time and were fighting hmgs. Once our spawn cue started to get clogged up, about 5 of us were dropping in one at a time. Marines had maybe 2-4 guys outside in the hallway. Icecream went right inside the hive, made a left and hugged the wall, then proceeded to spawn camp our whole team with his HMG for what seemed like at least 2 minutes. I’m sure anyone who was on the alien team can verify this information. There was really no point in trying to do anything, his score was at least 26-5 at this point. His teammates spent about a minute or two setting up turrets outside the hive which faced the hallway moving in. So even if you didn’t spawn on Icecream’s screen to die, you were probably right in the hall way and lasted 2 seconds before the turrets insta-killed you. Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t recall anything at all ever attacking the hive with the exception of an occasional stray bullet all this while being spawn camped. After every player on our team had been spawn killed twice I basically gave up and began typing in all_say asking why Decimator didn’t warn his team about spawn camping our hive, as I’m sure he is well aware of the rules and here we are with this post. Maybe he did warn them and they didn’t listen; only their team would know. DHP was also being spawn killed, but for some reason did nothing to resolve the issue, I thought he went afk or something. No one was warned/kicked/banned and the hive eventually went down when the rest of the marines moved in and our team had given up. If you don’t think my complaint was justified, please speak up.

What’s the solution to that problem you ask? I really couldn’t tell you because with the rules in place nothing is clear cut. No matter how you look at it there IS gray area. I can wax spawning skulks and still say I’m covering my team, it’s quite possible as Guen described the exact scenario. The hive CAN in theory be sieged from outside around the bend, but if no one is facing the hallway entering the hive you’ve got little chance to stop an onslaught of skulks that will spawn and come straight for you while your team builds. If you cover the hallway without shooting the hive (I don’t think it’s possible if you’re out by the RT) and kill someone who spawns there, you’re effectively spawn camping are you not? I won’t even question entering the hive and killing spawners because that’s just obvious. But are we to assume spawn camping is legal in this scenario? How about 4-5 guys spawn camping while 1 guy builds pg / tf / turrets / waits for siege upgrade / siege cannons? That’d be ‘an active attempt to siege the hive’ (albeit at a turtles pace) would it not, and thus clear all 4-5 guys of the spawn camping infraction correct? I’d just like some clarification so I can stop worrying and start playing the game.
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