Author Topic: Developer Outreach  (Read 18440 times)

March 05, 2005, 09:41:35 AM
Reply #20

holy_devil

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Until today (before I really put some thought into it) I wasn't a big proponent of the 'unchain the chambers' movement.  But maybe that's what needs to happen. :/
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likewise, but now thinking about it, i overlooked this. unchaining them coudl very well fix a lot of the aliens problems. they would be able to counter-tech marines, like marines can counter aliens. would be a STRATEGY(gasp) game, and still reliant on skill. beat the hell out of b5, and b6(doubt b6 is changing the game at all, sadly)

March 05, 2005, 10:21:50 AM
Reply #21

Necrosis

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MT knackers any ambush, but skulks can take cara and thus survive a bit of damage. They can parasite, so they know the rines are coming. MT is good for telling you "here be doggies" but its not going to help you aim at them.
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March 05, 2005, 01:37:53 PM
Reply #22

Hesitation

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I'm sorry, I don't see Carapace and a prayer as being the counter to Motion Tracking. Motion Tracking results in marines ambushing skulks! You know where he is, if he has any backup, and generally where he's going. Aim at the blip, fire when it comes around the corner.

If the marine is parasited, it's a little better. But then again, whenever I get para'd, I usually bait myself for 2 or 3 buddies.

Mainly, the probolem is that the marines can get MT in almost any situation, and then it works for free, for the entire team, for the rest of the game (barring obs takedowns).

The only real counter is Sensory chambers, and god forbid you have a chamber slot left for those.

On that note, I'm also a supporter of the unchained chambers idea. That way, when they get MT, you could drop sensories to *gasp* COUNTER marine tech! As it is, you can only do it if you 'sacrifice' a chamber slot for the all important hives.
A skulk on the roof is worth two on the ground!

March 05, 2005, 01:40:57 PM
Reply #23

2_of_8

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Here's a simple idea. How about making motion tracking
1) Tied to 1 observatory
2) If that observatory is taken down, MT is lost (despite having other obs - which don't have MT researched)
3) After an obs is rebuilt (or another one is selected), MT would have to be researched again.

Exactly like an advanced armoury.
Where lipstick is concerned, the important thing is not color, but to accept God's final word on where your lips end. - Jerry Seinfeld

March 05, 2005, 05:18:01 PM
Reply #24

SwiftSpear

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I was thinking about MT alot today, and I think I came up with an idea to fix it.  Currently motion tracking is just broken, because for the res it costs, it is a rediculously overpowered upgrade.  Not only does it make vanilla skulks much easier to kill, but it is the best counter for 3 alien upgrades, silence, cloaking, and scent of fear.  Instead of just trying to nerf the final wheight of motion tracking, why not make it like an armory upgrade instead? so that at the third level MT is as powerful as it is now, but at the early levels it is restricted to smaller radiuses around the obs and less sensitive to slow speed motion (IE at level one you have an SC type radius that picks up only running skulks, L2 you have a radius a bit larger then a siege that picks up anything with a movement speed, but not still or rotating lifeforms, and at L3 it covers a good 1/4 of the map and picks up any movement whatsoever)  Also the cost of the obs should be reduced so it can be more of a common map object, and in turn, becuase you have more obs, the cost of scan should be increased signifigantly, or possibly managed as a pool, where your maximum scan point # is determined by the # of obs you have.  In this way a commander would have much more options in terms of stratigic base construction, and motion tracking would no longer be a broken upgrade.

Looking over that idea, it looks like a lot of work to impliment... So I still say fix the frigging onos first.
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March 05, 2005, 05:25:32 PM
Reply #25

2_of_8

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Swift, that's a very good idea; have it like armour or weapons levels.
If that's still overpowered, maybe taking down the obs lab (:D) will reset the upgrades to 0, so that you have to restart researching from 0 to 1 -> 2 -> 3?
Where lipstick is concerned, the important thing is not color, but to accept God's final word on where your lips end. - Jerry Seinfeld

March 05, 2005, 06:24:30 PM
Reply #26

Hesitation

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I'll second that. A big issue with MT is time; build an obs, research it. Bam. Easily rushable.

If it were a series of upgrades, "level 3" MT would hit at a much more managable stage of the game.
A skulk on the roof is worth two on the ground!

March 05, 2005, 06:40:00 PM
Reply #27

LowCrawler

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i thought of somethign just now as a counter to HD's pg problem

how about having it so that a commander had to set a pg as the "destination" before they would work?

heres how id have it go.

you set a pg as the destination, maybe free maybe not, and then all other pgs link to THAT pg. the destination stays active for a period of time... say.... 25 seconds. long enough for your marines to hear you and go through.

what this does is it keeps the marines from having an idle foothold on the entire map. There has to be a deliberate will to go to a certain point, no more just idly phasing through to places and using it as a godlike system of omnipresence

think about it.

March 05, 2005, 07:08:54 PM
Reply #28

2_of_8

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I'm not sure if I understand you properly, but this reminds me of a "transwarp gate" from Star Trek: Armada. The Borg could use their special technology, top-tier, to open up a wormhole to any place in the map, from their base. This wormhole would allow everyone to transverse through it, and it would be active for 30 seconds or so. 10 seconds before it would open or so, it would be announced to everyone that a transwarp gate has opened here at x and y.
Think about this system... not that I support it, just throwing out a suggestion.
Where lipstick is concerned, the important thing is not color, but to accept God's final word on where your lips end. - Jerry Seinfeld

March 05, 2005, 07:21:08 PM
Reply #29

duherman

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That would be hiliarious, trans warp gate detected at sector 10 of hallway 5.

March 05, 2005, 08:38:59 PM
Reply #30

Hesitation

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I like the 'activated' phase gate idea. Anti marine, no more randomly phasing all over the map for your entire team. Pro marine, no more phase time wasted at the wrong phase when you need your entire team somewhere pronto.

Most of the 'overpowering' things in my opinion come from the Observatory. I mean 'cmon: Motion Tracking, Phase Tech, Scan, and Beacon, not to mention auto-detection of enemy structures and auto-decloaking in it's radius?

Maybe an increase in Obs price, build time (and corresponding upg to HP), or just the individual powers that need tweaking.
A skulk on the roof is worth two on the ground!

March 05, 2005, 08:46:08 PM
Reply #31

holy_devil

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I like the 'activated' phase gate idea. Anti marine, no more randomly phasing all over the map for your entire team. Pro marine, no more phase time wasted at the wrong phase when you need your entire team somewhere pronto.

Most of the 'overpowering' things in my opinion come from the Observatory. I mean 'cmon: Motion Tracking, Phase Tech, Scan, and Beacon, not to mention auto-detection of enemy structures and auto-decloaking in it's radius?

Maybe an increase in Obs price, build time (and corresponding upg to HP), or just the individual powers that need tweaking.
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'tis a good point, marines rely on the obs royally. mt is the only real big problem, but mt rushing at the start leaves marines open against sensory focus, due to lack of a1, which is obviously a very bad thing.

i'm very happy people are finally going sens first >_< such a great and useful chamber. sof is required, its like having a marine team without mt until the game is over. focus just amplifies fades, and makes their survivability much greater. onos gets sof, again increasing survivability.

honestly i must admit i was very wrong about 3.0. lot of very nice changes in a simple form, didn't seem too helpful. shotguns are still very strong against hives, but the fact that people get sensory(and it gives sof across entire map) is GREAT. finally its a competition instead of multiplayer "Thief".


but alas, its required sensory to be any fun. seems wrong, and as someone suggested, is brought back to unchaining the chambers. that, honestly, would fix a lot of problems. the res cost itself would balance it, i'd think. uber cloaked walls of lame wouldn't matter, since you haev sieges + gls, and if aliens have the kind of res/time/are allowed to do that for the 30 minutes it takes.. =p costs half the res to siege it anyway.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2005, 08:50:15 PM by holy_devil »

March 05, 2005, 09:42:46 PM
Reply #32

2_of_8

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I think I am voting for the unchaining of chambers as well; would introduce more strategies, and would make the alien tech tree closer to the marine tech tree: both can research everything at once (d + m + s / a + w + mt + pt + etc).
Where lipstick is concerned, the important thing is not color, but to accept God's final word on where your lips end. - Jerry Seinfeld

March 06, 2005, 05:59:07 PM
Reply #33

Eggman

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Hmm... I have a suggestion for MT.
First off, I don't understand saying MT should just work in a radius of the obs. That already happens, and you don't even have to upgrade it.
Maybe MT should just show up on the minimap but not on the hud. So you can know if an alien is coming but not precisely. Or have it only update every 3 seconds (maybe more) or so, so a quick skulk can close the gap without you knowing it.
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March 06, 2005, 07:16:55 PM
Reply #34

2_of_8

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...
Or have it only update every 3 seconds (maybe more) or so, so a quick skulk can close the gap without you knowing it.
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That sounds like the best idea I've heard. Simply, decrease the refresh rate. 3 seconds or whatever, combined with the other ideas as to levels, etc.
Maybe also have the refresh rate decrease with distance from obs. So let's say observatory is in MS; refresh rate RIGHT by the obs would be a minimum 1 second or whatever. It would increase, maybe even exponentially, so that at a hive location it would be 30 seconds, unless a Marine is nearby. If Marines are there, then the refresh rate would be higher (3 seconds?).
Recap: close to obs = high refresh rate
far away from obs and marines = very low refresh rate
close to marines = average refresh rate
Mmm?
Where lipstick is concerned, the important thing is not color, but to accept God's final word on where your lips end. - Jerry Seinfeld

March 06, 2005, 08:23:35 PM
Reply #35

LowCrawler

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i think mt should work in the minimap in the corner of the screen, but not on the HUD or the big map when you hold down C key.

and comms cant see it.


this would promote teamworkhax and disallow someone to track the fade/onos thru the whole game and render him useless.

March 06, 2005, 11:20:49 PM
Reply #36

SwiftSpear

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I think I am voting for the unchaining of chambers as well; would introduce more strategies, and would make the alien tech tree closer to the marine tech tree: both can research everything at once (d + m + s / a + w + mt + pt + etc).
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Bah, unchaining chambers IMO is going to far.  The alien and marine teams shouldn't have similar tech trees, they shoudn't be clonelike whatsoever.  The game is better if they stay as different as possible, but still allow both teams as much options as possible.
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March 07, 2005, 04:30:00 AM
Reply #37

Necrosis

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I agree with Swifty. Unchaining only makes them more marine like, and will inevitably lead to the "optimal build" where every server just uses the same set of chambers.

With the current system there's a good bit of variation, moreso with the new beta.
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March 07, 2005, 10:30:51 AM
Reply #38

Malevolent

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I think I am voting for the unchaining of chambers as well; would introduce more strategies, and would make the alien tech tree closer to the marine tech tree: both can research everything at once (d + m + s / a + w + mt + pt + etc).
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Bah, unchaining chambers IMO is going to far.  The alien and marine teams shouldn't have similar tech trees, they shoudn't be clonelike whatsoever.  The game is better if they stay as different as possible, but still allow both teams as much options as possible.
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Yeah, Swift does has a point.

It kind of reminds me about Warhammer for PC. A lot of the races are too similar.

Aliens should not be close to the marines at all.
It's twice as clear as heaven and twice as loud as reason.

March 08, 2005, 01:57:52 AM
Reply #39

Mr.Ben

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Allowing a ninja PG to go is a total failure by the alien team. On public you obviously lack co-ordination and communication like that of clan play, however that is no excuse for laziness. Firstly, you have an amazing tool called 'parasite,' i'm sure some of you have heard of this though most neglect to use it (the number of times i've just camped somewhere and frag whored without getting pare'd once is shocking). You parasite every marine you see and there should be 7 yellow dots on your screen at all times.

You then need to use another tool called 'the minimap' and need to learn to read and understand NS gameplay. Saying you can't scout one hive because you're defending the other, and then losing the hive you didn't scout is just retarded. Have your mini map up, see where your team, see the open routes, check them yourself. It's just laziness to not do it, especially if you can bunnyhop and the only person to blame if the hive goes down is yourself.

I know in clanplay, if we get ninja pg'ed then we've done something wrong and didn't do our job. It happened the other day on ns_veil, we were totally dominating and we missed a marine sneak out WSL side and get a PG up. That was a failure on the player(s) we had scouting WSL, not the game. Don't play the blame game with your failures, learn from them. We won't get ninja pg'ed like that again (i hope!)

Aliens have recieved a serious buff this patch. If you don't believe me then watch #lessthanthree play #knife on ns_veil in b5 and see marine domination both ways. Watch it on b6 and see alien domination. Unchaining the chambers would just be a step too far.

MT is an overpowering upgrade, yes. But it's 35 res and 2 minutes worth of research time, if you rush it you can't get early a1 and you probably forfeit getting an advanced armoury too. I think removing MT from the hud and having it just on the minimap would be the best way forward. Either that, keep it on the hud but allow walking skulks to not show up, and turning skulks shouldn't be on there either. Removing it entirely though just limits the options available to marines and narrows the tech tree.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2005, 02:04:19 AM by Mr.Ben »

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