Developer Outreach

[Magmatron]

Well, discussion in the channel turned to how bitter everyone who's played more than two years has become, etc. People started throwing around the usual generic "Onos sucks" comments. Well, folks, here's your chance to fix it! Sort of.

Post your well thought out ideas to fix whatever you think is broken with our fair mod in this thread. Drubo, who apparently does something for NS in some way, somehow, will get you past all that I&S garbage and straight to the people who can do something if your suggestion is worthy.

Do yourselves a favor and have the suggestion:

Detailed

Well written

Plausable

Family friendly

Not retarded

If people feel the need to discuss these ideas, make another thread for discussing. This thread is for posting suggestions only (Keeps it a bit clean). Keeping this stickied for now, since God knows NS needs some help.

P.S, I'm going to be making up for roughly 5 months of moderator inactivity by making sure this thread isn't derailed or ruined.

Edit: Ah, who was I kidding. Discuss away.

[SwiftSpear]

well I'll start this off.

Basicly the onos sucks...  The reason for this the way I see it is that it is built in such a way that it functions like a hit and run unit in the current build, yet it moves to slow to really be a hit and run unit.  Consequently, units like the fade become more powerful then the onos can possibly be in the hands of a skilled player, because they are units that properly fit thier role as hit and run units.  So although the onos works well at the low skill levels, compeditively and at the high skill levels the thing is just a joke because with the slow movement speed, a hit and run unit basicly has no learning curve at all, it just functions like a meatshield slowmotion fade.

The solution to the problem is simple... Either force the onos to no longer be a hit and run unit or create some method by which a high skill player can advance to higher levels of play with the onos as a hit and run unit.  Just to show that I have considered the issue fully, I will now disscuss the pro's and cons of both.

Onos is not hit and run:
Well first of all the obvious problem is how the heck can this be done?  Certainly abilities like devour and charge which only really serve to exaserbate the problem have to be removed.  Devour is problematic because it can be used in an instant to stop a marine from attacking the onos, but the onos must then stay alive for a fairly long period of time while the marine digests or else the whole point of the attack is rendered void.  This creates some intersting possibilites from the marines prespective, but from the onos prespective it pretty much just means that he has to get in and out as soon as possible.  Charge is just blatantly hit and run.  It takes away too much energy from the onos to allow it to really do much damage, and all it really does is speed up his movement.  Why bother even using it if you don't intend to hit and run?  In order to fix this, you would have to replace charge and devour with abilities that better compliments its roles as a base smasher and a tank.  What those replacements would be?  I really don't know, I haven't thought about it much because I don't particularly like this option too much, as I think it would require alot more balancing and playtesting then can be done in one version change, and I don't see a way that it can be done without breaking the ono's functionality in combat.

Onos learning curve is expanded:
This one is easy, but at the same time kind of hard.  In 2.0 the onos was great in the hands of a high skilled player against a bunch of low skilled players, and this was basicly due to the fact that most of the players who were shooting at the onos were missing compleatly because of the hitbox crappiness.  although many people would disagree with me, I maintain that the 2.0 onos was crap because if you knew where to shoot, you could kill the thing in just a single LMG and pistol clip combined.  How do we restore the "hard to hit" functionality without making the hitbox crappy again?  IMO the answer lies in damage variabled hitboxes, similar to how the head hitbox does more damage to the player in CS if hit in the head.  If you look at the onos hitbox in model viewer, you would knowtice that it has a huge fat hitbox on its head that covers most of the front of its body.  What I propose is just that we assign that hitbox to take 1/4 of the damage the normal hitboxes take, as well as decreading the damage that the leg hitboxes take.  Create a condition where a good onos can suck up insane ammounts of damage by aligning his playermodel skillfully and properly, while a good marine will still be able to feed an onos his butt by finding ways to flank the thing with high damage weapons.  In order to compesate for the seemingly insane buttet resistance we have just given a good onos, it should go without saying that his health and armor would have to be decreased to some degree, and perhaps his res cost could increase in NS mode and/or his point cost could increase in combat mode.

Whatever is done, I still think something should be done with charge, because I have yet to find a use for it in any hive 3 situation, expecially since you still have to devour marines by the feet in the game; meaning unless you give the onos a devour crosshair, you don't have much chance of hitting a charge devour anyways.  Optimally charge would be replaced with something that facititates either reasonable numbers of marine kills fairly easily, which would balance well with the hive three weapon cost in combat, or something that facilitates the onos role as a base smasher in NS mode, since the marines don't really deserve to keep thier base for very long if they allow aliens to get hive 3 onos.

[Supernorn2000]

The onos, despite being the ultimate alien evolution, drops like a fly.  

It simply cannot enter a marine base without taking some serious damage, forcing the onos to be a "hit and run" lifeform. The only way to survive is to run into the room, do a bit of damage, and run out again without dieing.

What is the Onos supposed to counter?

Jetpacks can easily avoid the onos, despite its stomp ability. Heavy armour marines when working together, can almost instantly drop an Onos with their combined firepower. The devour ability is designed mainly as a counter to a Heavy armour train, but it depends on you managing to escape the other HA marines, or take out a HA who has fallen behind the main group.


How do we stop it dieing so quickly?

In previous versions, where turret farms were common, the onos was made partly-resistant to turret fire to combat the situation. The same could be done with marine weaponry, like the LMG or the Shotgun.  If you wanted to be really extreme, you could make the Onos partly-resistant to everything other than explosives. This would make those currently rather ignored handgrenade upgrades far more appealing, and meaning the onos would be far better able to take on heavy armour marines or join an assault on the marine base.

The charge ability, for a third hive weapon, also needs a serious upgrade. In 1.04 it was able to plough through several marines at a time, but right now the ability is rather useless unless you need to make a quick escape.

[That Annoying Kid]

[Onos learning curve is expanded:
  IMO the answer lies in damage variabled hitboxes, similar to how the head hitbox does more damage to the player in CS if hit in the head.  If you look at the onos hitbox in model viewer, you would knowtice that it has a huge fat hitbox on its head that covers most of the front of its body.  What I propose is just that we assign that hitbox to take 1/4 of the damage the normal hitboxes take, as well as decreading the damage that the leg hitboxes take.  Create a condition where a good onos can suck up insane ammounts of damage by aligning his playermodel skillfully and properly, while a good marine will still be able to feed an onos his butt by finding ways to flank the thing with high damage weapons.  In order to compesate for the seemingly insane buttet resistance we have just given a good onos, it should go without saying that his health and armor would have to be decreased to some degree, and perhaps his res cost could increase in NS mode and/or his point cost could increase in combat mode.

^^

Onos in 1.xx was an inane tank, it literally instilled ph34r into the other players when I would onos during the lan games at school, and then I could singlehandedly take down MS while dealing with a bunch of marines.

now you just get swatted with the quickness  :blink:

I remember when I thought the buffs to the onos health and armour around extreme, but now they look as if they really didn't help. The onos is slow and easily killable, it's not the tank that it was.

anyone remember the 1.0 changelog that discribes the onos as the "nice knowing you" lifeform.

shoot for something like that

[SwiftSpear]

[Onos learning curve is expanded:
  IMO the answer lies in damage variabled hitboxes, similar to how the head hitbox does more damage to the player in CS if hit in the head.  If you look at the onos hitbox in model viewer, you would knowtice that it has a huge fat hitbox on its head that covers most of the front of its body.  What I propose is just that we assign that hitbox to take 1/4 of the damage the normal hitboxes take, as well as decreading the damage that the leg hitboxes take.  Create a condition where a good onos can suck up insane ammounts of damage by aligning his playermodel skillfully and properly, while a good marine will still be able to feed an onos his butt by finding ways to flank the thing with high damage weapons.  In order to compesate for the seemingly insane buttet resistance we have just given a good onos, it should go without saying that his health and armor would have to be decreased to some degree, and perhaps his res cost could increase in NS mode and/or his point cost could increase in combat mode.

^^

Onos in 1.xx was an inane tank, it literally instilled ph34r into the other players when I would onos during the lan games at school, and then I could singlehandedly take down MS while dealing with a bunch of marines.

now you just get swatted with the quickness  :blink:

I remember when I thought the buffs to the onos health and armour around extreme, but now they look as if they really didn't help. The onos is slow and easily killable, it's not the tank that it was.

anyone remember the 1.0 changelog that discribes the onos as the "nice knowing you" lifeform.

shoot for something like that

[snapback]42375[/snapback]

I would like to see a hive 3 onos go back in that direction, but since you don't need hive 3 to get the onos any more, I think an expanded learning curve is the best we can shoot for without giving the game to aliens as soon as they get onos every round.

Remember, in 1.x is was hard to simply get the onos, and once you did the game was basicly over.  3.0 doesn't really move in the same direction, but I think elements of that style of gameplay are returnable with proper weapons put in the hive 3 slot anyways.

[holy_devil]

there are quite a few issues, i'll put them in no paticular order. each section may be entirely different from the last, perhaps conflicting. hence different sections, different ideas.

note; basing this off of b5 play since i haven't played b6. but i doubt much of anything will be different, unless theres ninja nerfs.

as well, please note we base this game off of the supposed "top of the line" players, so skill isn't an issue, its expected, isn't it?

Hitboxes

As it stands, the hitboxes are the aliens saving grace. if the marines hit all the shots they fired at aliens, they would never stand a chance. Skulks die in less than 1 second vs a LMG, which you can see from time to time when the hitboxes don't crap out. other times, you'll unload the entire clip and hit nothing. hence, saving grace. if the devs were to fix the hitboxes, you would have to nerf the damage of the marines and increase health of basically every life form. onos is most noticeable when it comes to marine damage, due to the giant wall of a hitbox it has. hmgs solo onii with stupid ease, but have problems against fades blinking with celerity due to hitboxes. so, i'm kind of hoping hitboxes stay broken until the dev team realizes that marines are overpowered.


Marines In General

FAR. TOO. GOOD. sieges go up way too fast with more than 1 person building(its kind of slow with 1, but still very fast) for a no line-of-sight high-damage anti-structure freaking uber cannon of death. the fact that scanning allows the sieges to hit makes them way too powerful. most siege locations are very easy to hold, ala uturn. but actually going into the hive, the marines get destroyed. so they siege, and can't be touched. this isn't really fun for anyone. if its just the hive, its a "net loss" in res cost for marines(40 for hive vs 25 for tf + 15 per siege, assuming more than 1 siege, and a pg is there) but the 3 minute downtime and lack of an ability+chamber really, really hurts aliens. siege needs to really go. unless the marines overall utility gets nerfed, that is.

Marine's weapons are insane. drop an armory, you can drop shotguns. WHY. shotguns are INSANE for a no-upgrade weapon. they do better than the 15 res upgraded armory gls vs hives, which is supposed to be the structure counter weapon(right?). sgs deal hundreds of damage PER SHOT at close range, but "suck at range" so its "okay." no. aliens are pure melee, this counters their entire freaking existance. then they do full vs any structure, including hives. which allows marines to drop sgs, get a pg next to a hive, and drop it before the "hive under attack" message plays(literally). it also allows marines to drop onii very easily, as well. counters redemption entirely, on a 75 res lifeform, because of the threshold(has to be no armor, <~330h, sgs can do that like its a joke).

on top of it all, marines can get armor3 quickly. the base damage is beyond enough, and armor3 just makes it stupid. 4 hits is a LOT considering the DPS of marines. lerks take even more bites than that, and are already paper. spore needs to eat armor more, to make this strategy no where near as effective. as it stands, i've rushed armor3 in pubs and not lost without killing one fade, due to the fact that my marines DO NOT DIE. 4 hits is way too long for a fade to stick around vs any weapon.

overall, marines = far too much utility. they get the end of every counter chain, and have things that have no counter chain at all.

conclusion for me? marines = overpowered. way too much utility compared to aliens. aliens require hive2, marines are just good the entire game.


Hive abils

hive 2 is great. bile bomb, metabolize, leap, umbra, stomp. great abilities, aliens absolutely need these to hold a candle to decent marines. problem is, marines can drop hive2 or completly shut it down very, very quickly. 3 minutes to get a hive up, and provided aliens do not get mcs, marines can shut the aliens out of the hive entirely. if aliens get mcs they stand a chance, if friendly fire is on. even at that, marines walk in and drop the hive in 3 seconds.

hive3 is considered complete crap, usually because the game is over by when you get it. its also impossible to hold 3 hives in any real game situation(one marine brings many with a pg). primal scream and web are by far the best alien weapons. sadly, they never really get much use due to the hive holding situation. scream is sometimes used to kill the ips of the marines at the end, yay?

hives need a fix overall. need to be stronger, and have a better way of defending it as far as the aliens go. aliens should be very strong in the hive location. marines can hold their base with distress beacon, why do aliens get nothing of that sort?

phasegates

yes, pgs get their own section. one marine can build a phasegate. why? its so easy for one person to get into a hive and get one of these up. they build so quickly. then the commander can just beacon, drop weapons, marines phase in, get ammo from comm there, hive is dead before aliens can turn around in the direction of the hive. is it the aliens fault for letting ONE MARINE get past? you can't seriously ask aliens to check every corner, i mean, aliens are supposed to be the ambushers, and marines use teamwork. i see no team work in one marine building a pg. thats literally rambo right there.

pgs also allow marines to hold any position on the map with ease. aliens get no such grace, they get MCs. which allows them to hold pre-set map positions, provided the hive is either active or under attack. oh the hive is dying, let me mc in! *use mc* *dies to sg before turning 45 degrees*

jetpacks

okay, these things are just stupid. they allow marines to chase down any life form and get anywhere on the map with stupid freaking speed. no, the weapons do not weigh marines down nearly enough. then they're STOMP IMMUNE? if the jp is ont he ground, he should be treated as a regular marine, because hes given up the jp advantage, or is finally out of fuel(which is when they should be regular marines, so aliens can hold a candle to jps). if a lerk wants to fight a jp thats a whole different story. first, they have to predict where the marine is going and hope to god he doesn't change directions. then, if he does, they have to turn and flap a ton to gain speed(current flight system is crpa, adj seems to be working towards a better one though) and its just overall crap for lerks vs jps. gorges are the only real counter to jps, with HIVE 3 WEBS. oh you don't have hive3? oh well.

motion tracking

remove this. no reason for this to be in, with the rest of what marines get. give obs mt in range, or something, at most. this is far too powerful. counters skulks entirely, and removes any chance of aliens getting any location held. the marines can get anywhere long before aliens. if you don't see why mt is overpowered, you aren't playing ns, honestly. it just counters the entire alien idea. allows marines to track and kill fades with such ease. same for onii, or any lifeform. then you can add this to jetpacks. or marine "ninjas" who get that phasegate in the hive(they can see where to hide based on where aliens are moving, etc)

my conclusion

marines are overpowered at a ridiculous level. their entire tech tree is insane. hitboxes are the aliens SAVING GRACE? WHAT THE HELL. winning should not be reliant on a netcode. marines can ninja, sgs deal full to hives. so many things wrong, so much time to fix them. so get to it, please. this game has so much potential to be fun, it can be balanced with effort. i haven't seen a balance change since 3.0.

Marines = need nerfs

Aliens   = need many, many boosts, or an extreme marine nerf to bring them to their level.



edits:

Shotguns

See: all other sections.

Fades

Fade is an interesting class. depending on luck, and the player, it can turn the game around. its absolutely needed to hold hive2, though. the "hit and run" unit of aliens. funny that every other alien has to do that too, though.

Onos

Hitbox is too large for marines dps compared to its HP. supposed to be able to take on a few marines, but it can't take on ONE HMG? needs a lot of work. sticking with my "nerf marines" theory, upping it at all would make it useful vs lmgs.

Distress Beacon

worst idea. ever. sorry, recalling the entire team to a specific spot for 15 res isn't fair for aliens. especially when it can be done from anywhere on the map. if aliens "lame it up", then yes, for 80+ res, you can hold it for a bit. but marines will overpower the ocs easily. then marines can phase instantly after being beaconed? need a no-phase timer in there somewhere.. should be used for getting a dead team alive, not rofl-owning a hive.

[Decimator]

I think the onos would be much better off if it took considerably less damage on it's headplate.  Something like a tenth of normal damage would do it.  After doing that, the onos reverse speed would need to be lowered.  This would help kill the hit and run.  The onos would become a frontal assault unit behind which all the other aliens could swarm.  What could possibly also be done is have the headplate block 80% damage at hive 1, 90% damage at hive 2, and 100% damage at hive 3.  The onos would basically become a tank, having to watch it's backside, but being able to take incredible amounts of punishment from the front.  The abilities devour and stomp would also need to be changed, but I lack decent ideas for how to change those.

[A Boojum Snark]

Never really thought about sieges before, but HD's post gives me an idea:

Make sieges require two sightings (2 marines, or 1 marine + scan) before they will fire. Story explaination is easy too, the siege's need triangulation to acquire the target. If this is too harsh you could make them fire with only one sighting, but they would miss in said situation, and the epicenter of the blast would be placed randomly within X units from the intended target.

[Doobie Dan]

I think the onos would be much better off if it took considerably less damage on it's headplate.  Something like a tenth of normal damage would do it.  After doing that, the onos reverse speed would need to be lowered.  This would help kill the hit and run.  The onos would become a frontal assault unit behind which all the other aliens could swarm.  What could possibly also be done is have the headplate block 80% damage at hive 1, 90% damage at hive 2, and 100% damage at hive 3.  The onos would basically become a tank, having to watch it's backside, but being able to take incredible amounts of punishment from the front.  The abilities devour and stomp would also need to be changed, but I lack decent ideas for how to change those.

[snapback]42384[/snapback]

The lowered reverse speed thing is an excellent idea.  Making a lifeform not have to depend on hit-and-run is tricky, and I believe this is the best idea I've seen in a while to do it.  This particular one might require an onos-regen nerf.

[2_of_8]

HD, you make very good points, and I agree with all of them. However, you must realize that aliens must use teamwork as well; they cannot depend on one skilled fade/lerk/skulk/onos to win them the game, or even SEVERAL of these skilled lifeforms. They must work together, and I'm not saying that this is not being done - but it should be done more.

People expect Marines to cooperate to win, and Aliens to win by moving around alone and whatever. Not how it should be - teamwork should be essential as well.
Reminder, I'm not saying that it's not existent in aliens - but it's not present to a large enough extent.

I'll post more when I get home.

[SwiftSpear]

I personally still feel that the onos is the most broken part of NS ATM, but after a long talk with Zunni alot of other things came to mind.  He mentioned that he felt that MT was fairly problematic in the current build, and he also mentioned how he thought the hitboxes needed some major improvement.

If I could change one thing about NS all it would be would still be to add a damage resistant hitbox to the onos.  But still, what else what else do you think needs major improvement if not more improvement then the current onos

Opinions?

[holy_devil]

HD, you make very good points, and I agree with all of them. However, you must realize that aliens must use teamwork as well; they cannot depend on one skilled fade/lerk/skulk/onos to win them the game, or even SEVERAL of these skilled lifeforms. They must work together, and I'm not saying that this is not being done - but it should be done more.

People expect Marines to cooperate to win, and Aliens to win by moving around alone and whatever. Not how it should be - teamwork should be essential as well.
Reminder, I'm not saying that it's not existent in aliens - but it's not present to a large enough extent.

I'll post more when I get home.

[snapback]42391[/snapback]

sorry, this one is too easy do destroy. yes, aliens need teamwork too. but the fact is MARINES CAN SOLO EVERY LIFEFORM. 90% of the time if you get two fades trying to work together, they'll end up getting each other killed, since they collide so easily. sure, it works fine for when one does marines other does structures or something, but that really isn't compareable to marines focusing fire on a fade.

as well, team work for aliens is different from marines. this is something no one seems to grasp. for aliens, it means guarding the gorge building rts, having a scout skulk who parasites, and the fade trying to hold whatever needs to be held. as well, keeping the marines busy while not killing them so the onos can go take out the advanced armory. teamwork for aliens.. is team work, but it requires so much more effort, but they can get a lot more done, so its an effort=gain thing.

i always liked the suggestion that a solo marine has sof on him. it should be that way- teamwork to get anything done as marines. but atm, a good jper or ha can solo any lifeform. except onos vs ha, depending on if the ha gets hit by stomp etc. but literally,  hmgs + multiple marines = INSTANT DEAD TARGET. throw catpacks in, and its just freaking sad. lifeforms drop entirely too fast. then you'll say get a few in at once? no, it does not work.. skulks drop too fast, everything just owns them. lerks are purely support when it comes to them not being solo or its late game, they just can't handle the damage. umbra is a nice thing, but requires a lot of adren to keep it up, which is rare to have. then you can just waltz up and kill the lerk thats doing the umbra and its gone. then everything is cake to kill.


so yes, aliens need team work. but its not marine team work. alien life forms need to be able to live for more than one second. hives need to live for more than 2. then work from there. a fps/rts should not be THAT fast paced. everything needs a damage nerf imo, its more fun to have a fight take a while than to have everything die instantly.

I personally still feel that the onos is the most broken part of NS ATM, but after a long talk with Zunni alot of other things came to mind. He mentioned that he felt that MT was fairly problematic in the current build, and he also mentioned how he thought the hitboxes needed some major improvement.

If I could change one thing about NS all it would be would still be to add a damage resistant hitbox to the onos. But still, what else what else do you think needs major improvement if not more improvement then the current onos

Opinions?

as for that, onos just shows how much damage the marines can do. check its hp, it dies fast even with cara vs hmgs or shotguns. imagine that on every lifeform. thats how it is with fixed hitboxes, i'd imagine. damage needs to be nerfed badly, and hitboxes improved, before we can see what onos needs, imo.

[Necrosis]

I'm just going to go straight for the throat, basically lvl 3 weapons are dire for the alien team, and do nothing to break down endgame locks.

Rarely if ever do I see CHARGE used, and even then its mostly as a way to move faster and escape from an area. I thought thats what celerity was for. Charge doesn't shift marines, doesn't shift turrets, and if anything can make an Onos even easier to trap. Kind of hard to reconcile with the design concept of a battering ram.

I would suggest a severe tweaking of damage for charge v turrets and LA rines. That lets the onos blatter through underpowered marines, making endgames feasible. Essentially the marines will lame up somewhere, 2 onos will go in and flatten the turrets and anything lightarmoured with charge, then the rest of the boys can weigh in with Xeno or coordinated hits on upgrade buildings.


I'm happy enough with Onos getting reamed versus L3 weapons - after all, L3 weapons generally means a winning rine team. Its depressing when L1 weapons are creaming an onos because he's limited to goring, devour hit and runs, or stomp spam to help his team. Boosting charge would make the onos truly terrifying and worthy of endgame activity. He's not invulnerable, so HA and L3 weaps will still dice him, but it means LA and turrets will no longer eke out an endgame.

[Mr.Bill]

I got one, that would could possibly kill pg rushs from a distance, plus any form of ninjaing... and guess what? IT WONT KILL THE MARINES.

Give aliens hive sight, make the hive show all marines within a certain distance (seige distance maybe?) that way missing that 1 marine wouldn't be so easy, that +sensories, which if used properly would be everywhere ANYWAY you got alien motion hacks, to balance marines motion h4x.

I think this is a better move towards a better balanced game then "OMG NERF ALL MARINES SPECIALS CAUSE THEIR LAME!". I don't know about you, but I agree with hd, but find his methods... extreme in the worst possible way thinkable.

 Hive sighting would be counter a lot of the big marine bonus's, without making it IMPOSSIBLE for the marines too loose unless the aliens are nub.

[2_of_8]

I don't understand why you people are so against PG rushes.
It takes a while for anyone to get from MS to the hive and build a phase gate there. Just have SOME activity around these areas at all times - even 1 gorge moving around, or a lerk flying in and out every few minutes, maybe a skulk spawning and checking for any marines in the vicinity. Scouting is not hard; and sure, there ARE times when ninja rines can succesfully build a phase gate, but guess what, **** happens.
Some scouting fixes any problems you might have with ninja phase gates.

[holy_devil]

I don't understand why you people are so against PG rushes.
It takes a while for anyone to get from MS to the hive and build a phase gate there. Just have SOME activity around these areas at all times - even 1 gorge moving around, or a lerk flying in and out every few minutes, maybe a skulk spawning and checking for any marines in the vicinity. Scouting is not hard; and sure, there ARE times when ninja rines can succesfully build a phase gate, but guess what, **** happens.
Some scouting fixes any problems you might have with ninja phase gates.

[snapback]42428[/snapback]

can't ask for scouting when the majority of the marine team is setting up siege at one hive, meanwhile one gets a pg up in the other hive, and voila you're screwed.

[Hesitation]

My only huge problem is Motion Tracking.

From my understanding, skulk's main power is the ambush attack. I mean, skulk vs. marine in any flat competition, the marine will win 90% of the time before the skulk gets within 10 feet. Skulks have to wait, listen, and hamstring them before they can get a shot off when they walk by/underneath.

In my opinion, not only does MT wall hack the entire map for all your players, it totally nullifies skulks. In any kind of competitive game, how many skulk kills will you get after MT hits the table? You're basically forced to either evolve into an expensive lifeform, or tag along with one.

I'd compare it to an alien chamber that causes every LMG on the map to jam ;p

My favorite fix I heard, aside from completely removing MT altogether, was that it only funcitons within 'range' of an obs. It just gives the marines insane confidance, totatally removing the fear or worry of being suprised alone. I think it just encourages rambo'ing all the more for that reason.

EDIT! And my other idea... why not have some structures require more than one player to build? Eh? EH? 2 marines required to build a phase gate? 2 marines for proto etc?

[devicenull]

Onos:
Double or triple its HP/armor.  That or make it not take damage from the front like someone else said.  It dies way, way too fast.

HMG:
Increase the reload time.  There is no way to breach a base held down with a ton of HMG's, they are too strong.

[StoneToad]

I really like the idea of the ranged MT on observatories.  We were supposed to have a reason to have more then one other then letting the comm pingspam more.  Now if aliens get sens, then sure obs tend to go up, but any decent marine can kill an alien just by using the MT circle and gessing where they're hiding.   And if you ever open up the map they even show up as red dots showing their *exact* location.

Additionaly it would enfasize the MT as a defencive tool more then an offencive one.  You'd know about aliens incoming into your base, so it would help the base defender(s) but when you moved out, you'd have to rely on your teamates to cover you.

One of the big issues for aliens is that they have to pick *at the start* which chamber they want.  The whole team has to cooperate and pick the best chamber for the playstyle they're going to us, and the situation they're in.  That's right, aliens are screwed if a gorge pics the wrong upgrade.  This is why DMS order has been standard for so long, based on games I've seen latly it's changing to MDS to counter phase-beacon rushes.  And what about the special abilities of the chambers?  If you pick motion, you can't get a heal outside the hive room w/o a gorge.  (yes I know about inate regen, 2% isnt really a combat speed heal)

The marines on the other had have no issues like this.  Every upgrade can be gotten at the same time.  And there's no problem with having to pick say getting seiges OR phasegates.  Just think of how nerfed marines would be if they had to pick one or two of their stuctures to be able to build at the start of the game and then have to hold specific locations to get more and then lose the ability to build them if they lost that location.

On the other had if you allowed aliens to build all chambers all the time it would avoid this.  You might even finaly see people use chambers for their secondary effects.

As a gorge, DCs are just about required if you want to have any decent hope of holding off more then one marine with OCs.  But if you dont' have MCs you can't get to the hive fast enought to deal with a good phase rush vs the 2nd hive (since half the time you spawn in the wrong hive)  And without SCs you're horribly vulnerable to stealth phasegates and other rambo attacks.  This just compounds the whole weekness of single hive aliens that *no* amount of res can make up for.

[Plaguebearer]

Until today (before I really put some thought into it) I wasn't a big proponent of the 'unchain the chambers' movement.  But maybe that's what needs to happen. :/