Author Topic: N64 vs GameCube  (Read 17030 times)

December 17, 2004, 02:10:49 PM
Reply #40

SwiftSpear

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ah we used to play 4 player goldeneye with remote mines or assault weapons for hours at a time.

then we went to perfect dark and the slayer "guide the rocket into their face from across the map" gun.  B)

i remember trying to see how many perfect sims i could take all vs me.

damn that was fun ^^.
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Goldeneye was a great game and perfect dark was an increadible pass of the torch (ask me about chinese breakout).  But I need more than two hands to count playstation titles that were absolutly amazing or more.  64 had some increadible material, I mean OoT, Conkers, Goldeneye, Mario, and definatly smash bro's but simply the fact that niether square nor capcom made them a single game instantly cursed the position of that console to infinately below what the SNES had been the generation before.  I must have beaten at least 20 golden SNES titles that I would feel less of a person having known they existed but never played them.  Playstation is at least an equal share in the goodness of gaming from the middle console period.

Console gaming is in a sickly state this day and age.  No doubt there is a few brilliant titles, Halo Series, Gran Tourismo 3, RE: Remake, and a few others.  But honestly the best thing about the PS2 is that it can play old playstation games, and the market is being continuously flooded with tech demo style games that forsake story and/or gameplay for the flashy things that can be done graphically, and a continuing stream of fancy looking surface deep sequals that don't hold a candle to thier predicessors that are honestly starting to make me belive that a good section of the game series out there have really outlived thier longevity.  It's tragic when it comes to the point that final fantacy feels definitively sold out, or the mario series can't claim innovation, and don't get me started on the pit the RE games have dug themself into with thier newfound gamecube love.  Even windwaker couldn't touch the original feel you got from LTTP and later OoT, and the Tekken games have stagnated beyond the point where they are still intersting.  This even runs to the depth of the lesser known series... I mean Front Mission Four had greatly improved graphics and some really nice gameplay innovations, but a story that was reminicint of pulling toenails!  Tragic to say the least!

The best games of this console generation can be counted on one hand per console, and then after that you are forced to settle for mounds of medicorly good, but certianly not great titles.  This is a far cry down from the status the last generation held with each console running close to at least 10 compleatly stellar titles, and a tragidy compared to the generation before, so flooded with quality console material that I literally forget half the absolutly increadible games when I try to list them.
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December 17, 2004, 05:14:41 PM
Reply #41

Reasa

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Sorry to burst your bubble Reasa, but the Playstation judiciously applied the SMAQ™ to the N64 with its PIMP HAND. There is simply no question about not only which system was more successful, but which system was, quite objectively, BETTER.

And don't get me started on the N64 controller and its "don't touch me! Don't even LOOK at me! I'll break!" analog stick.

I can only presume that you were kidding. Note: Sarcasm doesn't carry well over the internet.
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Oh I was being quite serious.

First off it has the better graphics of the two, which wouldn't mean anything if it's games sucked, but fortunately Nintendo wins hands down in the games category.
Sure Playstation wins in the quantity department but if you want quality look no further then the 64.
I could swear Playstation put out 3 games a day, each one more bland and crappy then the last, unlike Nintendo who just so happens to hold all the winning titles from that era of gaming. Where’s Playsation’s Golden eye or Perfect Dark?
Do they have anything that can match Mario 64 or Super Smash Brothers?
Hell even as the Game Cube was coming out they released one of their best games: Paper Mario.

Ack the Playsation controller felt like a dead 3 month old fetus in my hands, with two crappy joysticks stuck in it, not to mention the 17 stupid buttons in the back.
Worst. Controller. Ever. Maybe you had a bargain bin generic N64 controller because I still have my first one and the joystick works fine.

I know it's hard to admit that your favorite system was a miserable mistake that was horriblely schooled by a far superior one, but you must make the effort.

December 17, 2004, 05:18:00 PM
Reply #42

Isamil

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Archi, you missed Wind Waker, another fairly decent offering of Zelda goodness to the GC.

And no Isamil, i hated OoT, it was boring, didn't "feel" like Zelda and it looked like ass. By this time i was already hating my N64. Actually, by the time i was halfway through Mario 64 i was about ready to take the POS back and buy something decent.

I'm a child of the Spectrum, NES and SNES, not these new fangled X-ey Boxeys or Game Squares, and whilst the elitist "Older is better" attitude may seem a bit annoying, it's also very true, well, in the case of the older console franchises like Mario, Zelda, Sonic, Contra, it's very true at least.
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"OoT looked like ass"
.....Right..sadly I don't think thats a joke

Yes esuna when you add another dimension to a game its going to be differant.  I'm not saying one is better then the other, but really, how can you say that OoT sucked when you liked the old ones.  It was an amazing game, I played through it twice(played through it once, it was my first time, the made another game and played it again) in one week.

LF for one remember the N64 joystick was new, it hadn't been done before.  The only problem I've had with the joystick is it sets its center as somewhere else, but restarting the N64 fixed that.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2004, 05:20:31 PM by Isamil »

December 17, 2004, 06:21:15 PM
Reply #43

Legionnaired

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You can also hit R L and start all at the same time to reset it too.

RTFM nub! :)
« Last Edit: December 17, 2004, 06:21:36 PM by Legionnaired »

December 18, 2004, 08:38:55 AM
Reply #44

Crispy

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Someone beat me to it :/

Going back to Zelda games what's been you're favourite moment?

I'd have to say stealing from the shop in Link's Awakening was the funniest thing ever, beaten only by returning the the shop when you'd completely forgotten about your stealing ways and seeing the reaction of the shopkeeper  ;)
A lovely thing to see:
through the paper window's hole,
the Galaxy.

December 18, 2004, 09:07:52 AM
Reply #45

lolfighter

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[...]I know it's hard to admit that your favorite system was a miserable mistake that was horriblely schooled by a far superior one, but you must make the effort.
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Indeed. So when will you own up and admit that the N64, by any measure that actually COUNTS, not by personal opinion, was a failure? The Playstation was not only the far more popular system of the two, it also sold far better. So much, in fact, that Nintendo had to save themselves from bankruptcy by shamelessly whoring the Pokemon franchise, something that they pulled off with great success. In fact, hadn't it been for "Gotta Catch 'em All!" in one million variants (and remember, you gotta catch all variants!), Nintendo would've either disappeared or been bought out.

In the age and day of increasing filesizes, Nintendo persisted in using the dated cartridge system. Cartridges, while allowing for blindingly fast/non-existant loading times and internal saving, were far more expensive to produce than CDs and had woefully little capacity. Especially the latter one severely hampered developers as they constantly fought against the 256 Mbit size limit (that's a meager 32 megabytes, folks. Compare that to a CD). Case example: FFVII. With I-don't-how-much-time of FMV, not to mention a very long game in full 3D, it would have been not only impossible, but unthinkable to fit it on a single 32 megabyte cartridge. It came on four CDs. You could've split it among several cartridges, but the manufacturing cost of all those cartridges (each far more expensive and substantially smaller than a CD) would have boosted the price of the game to astronomic heights. Try splitting four CDs among 32 MB cartridges. How big were CDs back then? 620 MB? 630 MB? Let's say 600 MB, for the benefit of a doubt. And furthermore, the fourth CD was probably not full. So let's say just three CDs. So, 600 x 3 / 32 = 56.25
Yep. FFVII for the N64 would have come on 56 cartridges. No wonder it was never ported.

The great games of the Playstation, off the top of my head, were definitely FFVII, VIII and IX. A franchise that nintendo, to their everlasting regret, allowed to slip out of their hands, if only for a while. But a few blockbusters a great system do not make, another shortcoming of the N64: It had a few great titles, but that's it. With the literally THOUSANDS of titles that the Playstation had, you were bound to find something that satisfied.

I know a few console enthusiasts myself, although I am not one. Even they agree that the N64 was not a very good system, although they of course all own one. In its time, the Playstation was quite simply the better investment for those that could only afford one console, just like the PS2 today (although it's beginning to show its age).


As a finishing note, I'll briefly touch the Dreamcast, a system that should have schooled both Playstation and N64. It was, quite simply, the next console generation. It was a more powerful system. Chalk it up to bad marketing and the fact that it was the ONLY console of its generation, with the PS2 being one generation above, and severely outperforming it. The Dreamcast, unlike the N64, lost because of bad marketing (something that Sega has never been good at, a game they have ROUTINELY lost against their old arch-nemesis Nintendy), not because the opposition was better.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2004, 09:12:50 AM by lolfighter »

December 18, 2004, 02:11:51 PM
Reply #46

Malevolent

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[...]I know it's hard to admit that your favorite system was a miserable mistake that was horriblely schooled by a far superior one, but you must make the effort.
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Try splitting four CDs among 32 MB cartridges. How big were CDs back then? 620 MB? 630 MB? Let's say 600 MB, for the benefit of a doubt. And furthermore, the fourth CD was probably not full. So let's say just three CDs. So, 600 x 3 / 32 = 56.25
Yep. FFVII for the N64 would have come on 56 cartridges. No wonder it was never ported.
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Wewt, it would be 57 cartridges of goodness.
It's twice as clear as heaven and twice as loud as reason.

December 18, 2004, 07:37:21 PM
Reply #47

SwiftSpear

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As a finishing note, I'll briefly touch the Dreamcast, a system that should have schooled both Playstation and N64. It was, quite simply, the next console generation. It was a more powerful system. Chalk it up to bad marketing and the fact that it was the ONLY console of its generation, with the PS2 being one generation above, and severely outperforming it. The Dreamcast, unlike the N64, lost because of bad marketing (something that Sega has never been good at, a game they have ROUTINELY lost against their old arch-nemesis Nintendy), not because the opposition was better.
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Dream cast also was the only system of that generation that looked like one of the consoles of this generation...  Lots of eye candy but very few quality titles.
<------OOOooooOOOoo, Hyperlink!
Final Hope Faith, COME ONE COME ALL

December 19, 2004, 12:36:21 AM
Reply #48

@gentOrange

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Dream cast also was the only system of that generation that looked like one of the consoles of this generation...  Lots of eye candy but very few quality titles.
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Excuse me?

Sorry but the dreamcast had won many awards for it's "few quality titles" even after they stopped making the system. It put out good (:Ding GREAT) games faster than any of the current systems. Also the first to dabble in online play. While it wasn't great this so called crappy machine pushed microsoft to eventually create xbox live. So lets watch our dreamcast bashing k?
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December 19, 2004, 12:51:09 AM
Reply #49

duherman

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For me I look forward to the new Zelda game there working on and Starfox 2, also Mario Party 6 I'm gonna buy.

December 20, 2004, 02:00:01 AM
Reply #50

SwiftSpear

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Quote from: @gentOrange,Dec 19 2004, 01:36 AM
Dream cast also was the only system of that generation that looked like one of the consoles of this generation...  Lots of eye candy but very few quality titles.
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Excuse me?

Sorry but the dreamcast had won many awards for it's "few quality titles" even after they stopped making the system. It put out good (:Ding GREAT) games faster than any of the current systems. Also the first to dabble in online play. While it wasn't great this so called crappy machine pushed microsoft to eventually create xbox live. So lets watch our dreamcast bashing k?
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When I say 'quality title', I mean one that stands out in your memory for the rest of time... a title that leaves you guessing what will be next the whole way through, not criticizing what the developers could have done better.  Titles such as Mario 3, Chrono trigger, Final fantasy 7, or even games like Gran Tourismo, which just provide endless hours of stunning gameplay on a simple concept.  I realize my definition may be harsh, but that is where I stand.

Games are still winning awards today, but I haven't seen a game that I would call a quality title in todays console market since Final Fantasy X and RE:Remake generation of games came out, (with the possible exception of Halo2, which I haven't really played enough to judge fairly).  Graphics always win awards, but they very VERY rarely rectify bad gameplay or plot when you acctually put time into a game.

Argue that point and I may concede a few titles I have forgotten off the top of my head, but the point still stands, todays market is no where near as saturated as the PS/N64 market was.

I never actually had a Dreamcast... It is all entirely possible that there were several quality titles for it, the point stands however that N64 and PS were both flooded with increadible titles thier entire duration, and it is difficult to compeate in a market that claims dominance like that.

It's the same reason the genisis could never beat out the SNES, the developer roster that Nintendo had at that point was ironclad.
<------OOOooooOOOoo, Hyperlink!
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December 20, 2004, 08:30:46 AM
Reply #51

esuna

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I never actually had a Dreamcast... It is all entirely possible that there were several quality titles for it, the point stands however that N64 and PS were both flooded with increadible titles thier entire duration, and it is difficult to compeate in a market that claims dominance like that.
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Ahem.

AHAHA*snip*

The PSX was, yes, but to claim that the N64 did is probably one of the funniest jokes i've ever heard. I'm gonna tell that joke to my friends tonight, we'll have a great time laughing about it together!

I would say the N64 died on it's feet, but it didn't, only with titles like Goldeneye, OoT and Mario 64 did it even manage to raise it's head out of the gutter for a brief period. The N64 just stopped selling, the games weren't selling, and they just weren't making quality games that appealled to the market. The PSX offered games for any and all tastes and ages, and the games were bigger, brighter, longer and boasted much higher quality than the N64 could ever offer, due to previously mentioned hardware and media limitations. Stop looking at the console with rose tinted glasses, it was technologically retarded and had a mere handful of half-decent titles.

The Dreamcast, on the other hand, was a pity. It is, without a doubt, one of the best consoles ever created. I'm talking right up there with the SNES. It was cheap, had a wide range of games (similar to the PSX's lineup), it was technically superior to anything else at the time (internet play supported, etc), and it was, on the whole, an excellent console. It just didn't sell. I'm not sure if it was because of the Saturn which came before it, but it really just didn't sell, and that was a massive shame. In all respects, the Dreamcast SHOULD have sold, it just didn't.



And finally, yes, OoT did look like ass. It lost all the style of previous Zelda games, it was also very flat, very boring looking, and was generally a huge let down. It's taken until Wind Waker for them to actually get anywhere near back to where they used to be with Zelda. In regards to both visuals and story, everything between Wind Waker and Link To The Past has been a huge disappointment to me.

And finally finally, if you never played Zelda 1-4 (Zelda 1-2, Link To The Past, Link's Awakening), your opinion on zelda is null and void. To be honest, you don't deserve an opinion on Zelda without playing any of the best games in the series. :)
« Last Edit: December 21, 2004, 06:22:13 AM by lolfighter »
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December 21, 2004, 03:56:28 AM
Reply #52

Geminosity

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I'll agree Link to the past was the best but I quite enjoyed OoT as well... I even kind of enjoyed Majora's mask though it left a funny taste in my mouth overall.

The dreamcast is as close as I can see to having been the next snes with some titles probably being responsible for more sleep deprivation and dropped university grades than I'd like XD
I still amn't majorly impressed by anything on the PS2 really and much the same with the GC; I really wish the poor old DC had done better but it was rather fragile with most breaking after 2 years of reasonable play (I have 3 to prove it).

The N64 was good for a giggle and it does feature a few whacking great titles that really should've been remade for the Gamecube (dear heck do I miss Jet Force Gemini), but I guess we should count ourselves lucky we got Smash Bros on that account.
I still find myself wishing F-Zero GX was more like X or the original because it feels strangely flat for some reason =o

December 21, 2004, 06:55:09 AM
Reply #53

SgtFury

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Sounds like a Betamax vs VHS argument going on here  :D


December 21, 2004, 07:09:17 AM
Reply #54

lolfighter

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As most of you know, the Dreamcast uses a unique type of disk called the GD-ROM. Although CD-ROM drives can't read it, you can connect the Dreamcast to your PC and copy the game like that. Since the GD-ROM holds more than a CD-ROM, games had to be cut down to fit on a CD, but this could be done easily (i.e. removing audio). The Utopia Boot CD is a CD to let you play pirate games on your Dreamcast. Self-boot, is the ability to just put a pirate game in th Dreamcast and play it.

The Dreamcast allowed you to play games on CDs as well as GDs (although the laser wasn't designed for it, and repeated use of CDs can strain the laser). which opened it up to easy piracy.
Quoted from here.
Sooooo... Repeated use of CDs in a DC causes strain on the laser. And CDs were the prime medium for pirated games. And you, Gem, complain that your DCs kept breaking... Nah, I don't see no connection. Nawh.


:p

December 21, 2004, 07:39:04 AM
Reply #55

Geminosity

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lol cheeky ^^

One of my friends had a lot of pirates and his DC broke before mine admittedly; the laser went kabewm on his.  Mine on the other hand never had any naughty stuff in it and the laser is fine... it just randomly resets itself making playing games impossible; especially when it decides to do it about 5 seconds after being turned on repeatedly =o

December 22, 2004, 08:52:39 AM
Reply #56

lolfighter

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[...]One of my friends had a lot of pirates and his DC broke before mine admittedly[...]
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This just REEKS of justice.


Also, I've noticed that Reasa hasn't posted in here since I handed him the proverbial smackdown. Reasa, I'm sorry for shattering your world, but life goes on after N64. Now get out of bed and pull yourself together. Crying into your pillow isn't going to help.

Let's see if such cruel taunts won't beat a little fighting spirit back into that man.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2004, 08:55:25 AM by lolfighter »

December 22, 2004, 07:40:03 PM
Reply #57

Reasa

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Also, I've noticed that Reasa hasn't posted in here since I handed him the proverbial smackdown. Reasa, I'm sorry for shattering your world, but life goes on after N64. Now get out of bed and pull yourself together. Crying into your pillow isn't going to help.

Let's see if such cruel taunts won't beat a little fighting spirit back into that man.
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Well I was just going to ignore that lunatic rant you so ignorantly labeled as a "smack down", however I am now forced to show you the error of you ways, although I doubt I can do little to lift the veil of inanity from your eyes.

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In the age and day of increasing filesizes, Nintendo persisted in using the dated cartridge system. Cartridges, while allowing for blindingly fast/non-existant loading times and internal saving, were far more expensive to produce than CDs and had woefully little capacity. Especially the latter one severely hampered developers as they constantly fought against the 256 Mbit size limit (that's a meager 32 megabytes, folks. Compare that to a CD). Case example: FFVII. With I-don't-how-much-time of FMV, not to mention a very long game in full 3D, it would have been not only impossible, but unthinkable to fit it on a single 32 megabyte cartridge. It came on four CDs. You could've split it among several cartridges, but the manufacturing cost of all those cartridges (each far more expensive and substantially smaller than a CD) would have boosted the price of the game to astronomic heights. Try splitting four CDs among 32 MB cartridges. How big were CDs back then? 620 MB? 630 MB? Let's say 600 MB, for the benefit of a doubt. And furthermore, the fourth CD was probably not full. So let's say just three CDs. So, 600 x 3 / 32 = 56.25
Yep. FFVII for the N64 would have come on 56 cartridges. No wonder it was never ported.

You should be giving them credit for those cartridges after you finished belittling their capabilities. You seem to forget that all the best console games of the era on crammed onto those outdated cartridges. Maybe if Playstation hadn't been cranking out games quicker then the Bush family makes kids they could put up a few pegs on the winners section. I won't argue that the CD's were certainly more efficient and definitely the wave of the future, but N64 wasn't meant to work into the future it was meant to be retired and replaced by a new system that could compete with all the other new systems, as it was. Makes me wonder, with all this extra space and capabilities, why do so many of the games for Playstation look like they were thrown together in a basement by a crack addict looking for some quick cash?

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The great games of the Playstation, off the top of my head, were definitely FFVII, VIII and IX. A franchise that nintendo, to their everlasting regret, allowed to slip out of their hands, if only for a while. But a few blockbusters a great system do not make, another shortcoming of the N64: It had a few great titles, but that's it. With the literally THOUSANDS of titles that the Playstation had, you were bound to find something that satisfied.

Funny how you say that Playstation had thousands of titles but I haven’t seen you mention a game that doesn’t have the words Final or Fantasy and some Roman numerals. Personally I found those games to be not allot of fun and rather boring, and I wish someone would just put a bullet in the damn thing already before they hit XVI. Certainly there are just as many, if not more, of these Final Fantasy games as their are Pokemon, of course because Nintendo also puts the same genius into its advertising as it does into its games,  so we know how successful that was.

I'll give you that the Playstation is the better system...on paper, and perhaps a smarter much more creative company could have worked wonders with it, but as things stand it remains nothing more then a small stain on the N64's golden era.

[size=8]You started it. :p [/size]

December 22, 2004, 07:44:29 PM
Reply #58

esuna

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but as things stand it remains nothing more then a small stain on the N64's 5 minutes of (semi-)fame.
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Edited for accuracy.
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December 22, 2004, 07:49:02 PM
Reply #59

Jefe

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No one has mentioned Pilotwings 64 and that makes me sad.

*DISCLAIMER*  Do not take the above post seriously.