REQUIRED READING FOR PLAYERS

[Niteowl]

It's like all the energies of the NS.org forum have been concentrated on this one thread.  What a brutally long thread. And honestly, it's because of this length that no one who can change stuff is going to read it. LB has certain stances on certain things that just won't change, not in my experience, anyhoo.

[Crispy]

Well if that's anything to go by I look forward to seeing the fruits of Archi and this community's labour...

If I'd been given an admin position by a server and had enough time to do it I'd have no complaint in fishing through what's been said to make a summary of the main points raised and the main arguments for and against them. Hell I'll even do it for you if needs be.

[Legionnaired]

*ahem*

Scooter, I trust most of the admins, I honestly don't think it's going to be a problem.

[Mr.Ben]

You know some rounds are extended by people NOT spawn camping and ending it.

[SwiftSpear]

My 2 second defintion for spawncamping.  Killing spawning skulks before they have a chance to defend themselfs (weather that means getting behind the hive or attacking the offending marine) with no short term intention OR ability to destroy hive resourses.

Therefore: you aren't spawncamping you are running throught the hive
and shoot one skulk to death because you have not killed spawning skulkS

you aren't spawncamping if are nearly finished building a PG in hive when you defend yourself getting attacked

you aren't spawncamping sighting for sieges in any case

you aren't spawncamping killing spawnings skulks to cover you two buddies with SG's laying waste to hive (if there is an onos or fade in hive than it is his faulth that skulks are getting wasted, he should be killing the attacking marines)

you aren't spawncamping kinfing DC's in the hive, unless you buckle down and start shooting skulks before you have a reasonable chance of acctually killing the DC's

You are spawncamping defending a building PG at two red lines in hiveroom (unless there are 1-2 other marines there building it)

You are spawncamping peaking out behind corners and shooting spawning skulks from a distance

You are spawncamping putting pistol shots into the hive one by one just so you can shoot more skulks there

You are spawncamping if you run in shooting spawning skulks, start knifing something getting off two slashes before each new skulk spawns to you can immediately kill them

[TheAdj]

So the spawncamping rule is there to patch up a problem brought in by yet another rule? :blink:

You can probably guess what my suggestion woulda been, but since they aint going to change that, I got nothing more to add.

[snapback]35498[/snapback]

If your suggesting that they simply make a rule disallow stat whoring then your not thinking very clearly.  It is the hardest possible thing to prove a person is doing, and is even more suseptable to admin bias then any other rule I can possibly think of.

[snapback]35499[/snapback]

I believe he is referring to the rule against concession of the game.

I simply haven't seen the constant premature concessions that some people claim they saw in the absence of a such a rule.  I played on a server for over a year-and-a-half that allowed F4'ing, and I found such incidences to be extremely rare.  Extremely rare as in occurring only once or twice in my entire time playing there.

[snapback]35502[/snapback]

Every pub I've played in games end almost every time with the opposing team conceeding.  I realize that many players don't want to wait around to be obliterated and see it as a waste of time, and I support thier right to belive so.  But the fact reamains that I prefer to play a game as if the F4 function didn't exist, thus I am glad that there are at least some servers out there that do not allow premature consessions whatsoever.  The primary function of the no spawncamping rule is twofold to prevent jackass style drawing out of long games and also to prevent stat whoring...  The latter is probably the more problematic when it comes to translation of the spawncamping rule in my opinion...

[snapback]35503[/snapback]

Most pub players have little clue how to end the game, especially on the alien team.  It takes 30 minutes to do something that should take about 5.  I've seen 5-6 onos just sit outside ms and devour marines that leave because they're too clueless to realize simply running into MS en masse will present so many hitpoints that the marines literally can't kill them fast enough.  In fact I would say most games end in a slow painful agony due to player incompetence.  Few servers quickly end games, and the ones that do are the ones I normally populate.  I know of another pub server that I generally consider the best because of it's competitive and common sense rules, yet the players aren't necessarily better than any other servers.  

Believe it or not I have a sense of what's fun and what isn't in a game.  I try to make the game enjoyable to everyone, alien and marine alike, regardless of what team I'm on and what I'm doing.  I don't think I've ever sent a marine into a hive to spawncamp, I almost always send them to kill the RT or something else in the hive.  My point in talking about spawncamping was there is a legitimate form that is to accomplish something and a form which is to simply delay the game.  2-3 marines sitting in the hive killing the RT isn't delaying the game, as they most likely have no ability to end the game by themselves.  They are merely carrying out a small objective in order to help win the game, and often they'll get punished for it.  If a spawncamping rule is going to be in place, at least make it very clear what is legitimate spawncamping and what isn't, there's a large difference.

[That Annoying Kid]

My 2 second defintion for spawncamping.  Killing spawning skulks before they have a chance to defend themselfs (weather that means getting behind the hive or attacking the offending marine) with no short term intention OR ability to destroy hive resourses.

Therefore: you aren't spawncamping you are running throught the hive
and shoot one skulk to death because you have not killed spawning skulkS

you aren't spawncamping if are nearly finished building a PG in hive when you defend yourself getting attacked

you aren't spawncamping sighting for sieges in any case

you aren't spawncamping killing spawnings skulks to cover you two buddies with SG's laying waste to hive (if there is an onos or fade in hive than it is his faulth that skulks are getting wasted, he should be killing the attacking marines)

you aren't spawncamping kinfing DC's in the hive, unless you buckle down and start shooting skulks before you have a reasonable chance of acctually killing the DC's

You are spawncamping defending a building PG at two red lines in hiveroom (unless there are 1-2 other marines there building it)

You are spawncamping peaking out behind corners and shooting spawning skulks from a distance

You are spawncamping putting pistol shots into the hive one by one just so you can shoot more skulks there

You are spawncamping if you run in shooting spawning skulks, start knifing something getting off two slashes before each new skulk spawns to you can immediately kill them

[snapback]35604[/snapback]

decent, but what if you went to the hive to kill there RT, and someone kills a skulk in the field, and then it respawns next to you... I can't kill that skulk, even if I was there first? I should just let it come and kill me or what?

also Adj, I agree with the vast majority of what you said.

[JohnTheGarbageman]

Its an advertising issue. Boo hoo if its part of anyone's tag. I don't think anyone can realistically construct an argument that would allow their tag to break the rules. I mean, I could go out tomorrow and start the *insert profanity here* clan and then throw a fit when I get banned from LM for obscenity in my tag. Tags don't mean that rules selectively apply. Its a big step away from naming everyone NSplayer by the way. It just means no adverts. Other people have adjusted by dropping the # sign, its not killing anyone to remove it. The rules say no adverts, so what the problem? You can't really complain about being punished for rule breaking.. its a ridiculous concept.

[snapback]35478[/snapback]

He said he changed it to "POUNDcri.nner", so he did in fact remove the poundsign. He's complaining about not being allowed to follow the rules with the slightest shred of humour.

[SwiftSpear]

My 2 second defintion for spawncamping.  Killing spawning skulks before they have a chance to defend themselfs (weather that means getting behind the hive or attacking the offending marine) with no short term intention OR ability to destroy hive resourses.

Therefore: you aren't spawncamping you are running throught the hive
and shoot one skulk to death because you have not killed spawning skulkS

you aren't spawncamping if are nearly finished building a PG in hive when you defend yourself getting attacked

you aren't spawncamping sighting for sieges in any case

you aren't spawncamping killing spawnings skulks to cover you two buddies with SG's laying waste to hive (if there is an onos or fade in hive than it is his faulth that skulks are getting wasted, he should be killing the attacking marines)

you aren't spawncamping kinfing DC's in the hive, unless you buckle down and start shooting skulks before you have a reasonable chance of acctually killing the DC's

You are spawncamping defending a building PG at two red lines in hiveroom (unless there are 1-2 other marines there building it)

You are spawncamping peaking out behind corners and shooting spawning skulks from a distance

You are spawncamping putting pistol shots into the hive one by one just so you can shoot more skulks there

You are spawncamping if you run in shooting spawning skulks, start knifing something getting off two slashes before each new skulk spawns to you can immediately kill them

[snapback]35604[/snapback]

decent, but what if you went to the hive to kill there RT, and someone kills a skulk in the field, and then it respawns next to you... I can't kill that skulk, even if I was there first? I should just let it come and kill me or what?

also Adj, I agree with the vast majority of what you said.

[snapback]35653[/snapback]

Yes you can kill that skulk, because you haven't yet killed any skulkS...  Also you have the intention of destroying hive resourses.  After killing the first skulk however you should pull out (since you know he will be respawning repeditively) unless you have knifed down the RT to the point where you actually have a good chance of killing it before you are killed (probably it would at least have to be in red to justify that point)...  You should really pull out even if you expect other marines to follow you in, since you don't have an immediate intention of destroying hive resourses (you need to WAIT for other marines, thus your intention is not immediate)

Like I have been saying the whole time... It is complicated enough however you define it that it needs to be an issue up to admin decernment.  And because it is a complicated issue up to admin decernment, the admins should be understanding to the fact that people will sometimes see the issue differently then them, or take a few times to really get what they mean in thier definition.

Even if you aren't showing the definition of "spawncamping" publicly, I think there should be an in depth definition accessable to the admins somewhere to prevent the phenomina that scooter blue made so clear was happening...  Different admins ban hammering with compleatly differenet perceptions of the issue.  Such actions not only confuse and threaten players, but they create bitterness among admins, expecially when someone trys to enact dicipline, and the player just turns around and quotes the actions of other admins pressing the belife that because other admins allowed their actions, they should be allowed to tow the line.

[Necrosis]

He said he changed it to "POUNDcri.nner", so he did in fact remove the poundsign. He's complaining about not being allowed to follow the rules with the slightest shred of humour

There are ways of changing your name and there are ways of changing your name. I can give you an alternate scenario where someone would change their name to "POUNDwhat.ever" and it would have been done with an attitude.

Its fun to speculate, were either of us there though?

[Niteowl]

He said he changed it to "POUNDcri.nner", so he did in fact remove the poundsign. He's complaining about not being allowed to follow the rules with the slightest shred of humour.

[snapback]35666[/snapback]

After the admins have experienced a bit of... less than sportsmanship like behaviour from folks who have broken the rules, the whole 'humour while following the rules but skirting it' is kinda tiresome. Just follow the rules and play.

[SwiftSpear]

Why do you guys make a big deal about clan tags anyways?  They have been around the internet for SOOO long, and I have never heard of anyone complaining about them as advertizing devices before.  Sure they CAN be considered advertizing, but that is only a small part of the reason that they are used...  Its almost like not allowing military officials to call themselfs "Sergent John" or "Priviate Joe" because it is advertizing the army...  Its just a proclimation of status.

Sure you may not be impressed by the proclimation of status, but to make a big deal about it is just immature.  Let people feel good about themselfs because they are proud of thier clan.  What is so wrong about that?

I'm advertizing other websites in my sig, why am I allowed to say whatever I want, within reason, there when my ingame name can't be whatever I want, within reason?

[Mr.Ben]

The thing is, you don't need a # to advertise something, the # is immaterial and people have things in their name which advertise servers or learning programs but of course they're allowed. The guides having an icon that advertises their program, everytime someone asks "what's that icon?" and they reply "i'm a guide" it advertises NSguides but of course that's perfectly fine by the rules.

If the # is part of your tag then i don't think it should be removed because it's part of a IRC channel. That's like me adding www. to the start of my name and an admin saying well www. is part of a website and should be removed even though i'm advertising nothing.

[Necrosis]

Creating such a rule will only mean people will insert swearwords before their name and then claim immunity because "ogm mah tag, j00 are discriminating, ololbbq!!11".

[Mr.Bill]

this should be the rule.

"No marines may enter the hive during any point of the game because to many damn peope keep bitching about the damn thing instead of just enjoying the game."

THERE. I think THAT will fix it.

[devicenull]

The thing is, you don't need a # to advertise something, the # is immaterial and people have things in their name which advertise servers or learning programs but of course they're allowed. The guides having an icon that advertises their program, everytime someone asks "what's that icon?" and they reply "i'm a guide" it advertises NSguides but of course that's perfectly fine by the rules.

If the # is part of your tag then i don't think it should be removed because it's part of a IRC channel. That's like me adding www. to the start of my name and an admin saying well www. is part of a website and should be removed even though i'm advertising nothing.

[snapback]35878[/snapback]

No #'s is not because of no advertising. The no # rule is there because the # in names screws up the server logs.

[Grillkohle]

I agree with Mr. Ben.

By the way, whatever happened to giving slotters the ability to cast map/kickvotes ?
I know it was taken away because someONE abused it, does that mean everyone has to be taken away the right because someone can't deal with the privilege ?
So much for that, I'm going back to WoW for now.

[a civilian]

No #'s is not because of no advertising. The no # rule is there because the # in names screws up the server logs.

[snapback]35920[/snapback]

Then why doesn't anyone say so when this is being enforced, and why was MrGunner punished for changing his name to POUNDcri.nner?

Creating such a rule will only mean people will insert swearwords before their name and then claim immunity because "ogm mah tag, j00 are discriminating, ololbbq!!11".

Yes.  Just like people will change their names to swear words if we allow them to choose their own names.

...

[Niteowl]

this should be the rule.

"No marines may enter the hive during any point of the game because to many damn peope keep bitching about the damn thing instead of just enjoying the game."

THERE. I think THAT will fix it.

[snapback]35908[/snapback]

Elegant solution!

[That Annoying Kid]

this should be the rule.

"No marines may enter the hive during any point of the game because to many damn peope keep bitching about the damn thing instead of just enjoying the game."

THERE. I think THAT will fix it.

[snapback]35908[/snapback]

Elegant solution!

[snapback]35989[/snapback]

LM will become seige only, no rushing!

VIVA LA REVOLUTION


niteowl can be the leader of the puppet seige only government!