Some chatter about Onii

[SwiftSpear]

[Edit]just to prevent confusion, this thread was ripped from the center of another thread as some of us (sorry ) couldn't help but derail the topic once the subject of onos came up.  If you don't understand the context of the first couple posts, keep reading until you can catch the drift of the discussion. [/edit]

Meh, a single onos can't do anything, if you want someone to be mad at, get mad at the rest of the team.  I have seen hundreds of games where it comes to a one onos war of attrition.  All a single onos can realisticly do is get into MS for a second at a time, if the TF and IPs are a reasonable distance back, one onos can't touch a base.  It doesn't help when the marines weld and base camp ontop of structures either.  If the team would rush than maby the game would be over, but you definitely can't blame the onos.

[lolfighter]

That's true too. From what I've heard, a 3.x Onos alone is not the uber killing machine that it once was. In 2.x, a well-played Onos was almost invincible as long as he had two hives to back him up. Blame the rest of the team for not helping him.

[a civilian]

That's true too. From what I've heard, a 3.x Onos alone is not the uber killing machine that it once was. In 2.x, a well-played Onos was almost invincible as long as he had two hives to back him up. Blame the rest of the team for not helping him.

[snapback]26983[/snapback]

Not really.  In 2.x the Onos died in around 30 HMG bullets.  Admittedly it had a much smaller hitbox, but it still died much faster than the current Onos against marines who knew where to shoot.

[Grimm]

That's true too. From what I've heard, a 3.x Onos alone is not the uber killing machine that it once was. In 2.x, a well-played Onos was almost invincible as long as he had two hives to back him up. Blame the rest of the team for not helping him.

[snapback]26983[/snapback]

Not really.  In 2.x the Onos died in around 30 HMG bullets.  Admittedly it had a much smaller hitbox, but it still died much faster than the current Onos against marines who knew where to shoot.

[snapback]26998[/snapback]

That smaller hitbox was what made 2.x Onos invincible; The majority of players didn't know where exactly to shoot, so instead they sat around and griped about hitboxes for the rest of the game  :lol: . Granted, 2.x Onos is a lot easier to kill than a 1.x Onos, it was still quite powerful, and it wasn't too much of a problem adjusting to the new hit-and-run technique when it came to taking down Marine base; It could still take on a heavy/hmg train long enough to devour one and stomp-spam the rest to allow teammates to clean up, but if you weren't smart in taking Marine base you'd end up dead.

[SwiftSpear]

That's true too. From what I've heard, a 3.x Onos alone is not the uber killing machine that it once was. In 2.x, a well-played Onos was almost invincible as long as he had two hives to back him up. Blame the rest of the team for not helping him.

[snapback]26983[/snapback]

Not really.  In 2.x the Onos died in around 30 HMG bullets.  Admittedly it had a much smaller hitbox, but it still died much faster than the current Onos against marines who knew where to shoot.

[snapback]26998[/snapback]

That smaller hitbox was what made 2.x Onos invincible; The majority of players didn't know where exactly to shoot, so instead they sat around and griped about hitboxes for the rest of the game  :lol: . Granted, 2.x Onos is a lot easier to kill than a 1.x Onos, it was still quite powerful, and it wasn't too much of a problem adjusting to the new hit-and-run technique when it came to taking down Marine base; It could still take on a heavy/hmg train long enough to devour one and stomp-spam the rest to allow teammates to clean up, but if you weren't smart in taking Marine base you'd end up dead.

[snapback]27119[/snapback]

On the other hand, I would make 2 onos LMG kills and a onos knife kill a game in 2.x...  Really the only thing they had going for them was stomp as the player skill got more to the level you see on average in a server like LM...

[lolfighter]

We must've played different versions of 2.01. The hell if you'd knife me as an Onos back then. Either the skill level has risen to astronomic proportions since I've left LM, or I wasn't half bad.

[BobTheJanitor]

Yeah I'm not sure if we're remembering the same game. When I played 2.01, an onos beat the stuffing out of marines. TWO onos was game over for sure. Now in 3.0, even with its HP upped by so much, it can take four, five, even the whole team going onos to take down a turtle base. Maybe the hitbox is just too big now. Shrinking it a bit around the edges and making the onos a wee bit faster, since he's a sloth without celerity, might be a help.

[a civilian]

I can only assume you were fighting marines who didn't know where to shoot.

In any case, devour must be removed before the Onos can be strengthened.  Otherwise, it would become too powerful at hit-and-run tactics with devour.

[SwiftSpear]

We must've played different versions of 2.01. The hell if you'd knife me as an Onos back then. Either the skill level has risen to astronomic proportions since I've left LM, or I wasn't half bad.

[snapback]27190[/snapback]

When you put a full LMG magazine and pistol mag into an onos in 2.XX, a knife kill would come real easy on an onos.  The real trick was to wait a few seconds before you shot at the onos, so by the time you started doing damage, his hitbox was nice and big and shiny, I used to slay 2-3 onos on an HMG clip in that version, all 3.0 has done is made the onos a better hit and run unit by increasing its VS individual power at the expence of its VS team power.  I agree with A Civ, devour needs a nerf, but the onos also needs some more VS structure viability in a base full of turtled marines.  ATM all the onos does is makes it scary to expand, it really doesn't counter the marines in any other way, and any base it attacks is almost guarenteed to be pretty much fine afterwards.

[Necrosis]

I dont see how you could nerf devour, other than perhaps more of a speed hit when you've eaten someone. It IS still meant to be the HA counter...

[Legionnaired]

What about, stomp shifts marine movements for 3 seconds (Pushing +forward might make you strafe left), and they drop their guns.

So, not only are they totally unable to dodge attacks with any degree of grace, but they also are disarmed until they can maneuver themselves back on top of their weapons.

Adds more effectiveness against whole squads, because a marine team would simply be confused after a stomp, and would have to take a few seconds to regather arms.

[Grimm]

Yea, I don't know what you guys are talking about, the 2.x Onos was still very very strong, even if you did know where to shoot. I recall easily taking squads of lmg marines, and being able to survive squads of shotgun marines without too much comlpication. Also, a civilian: Devour was implimented with the idea that the Onos would become a hit-and-run aggressor. Without stomp and devour, the aliens have a very tough time taking down heavy trains.

I agree with Bob on the idea of reducing the Onos' hitboxes a tad. At the moment, I could be around a corner, out of general site of marines, yet they'll still be able to hit anywhere just in front of my face if they see my horn since the hitbox doesn't align with the model exactly. Also, if any part of the Onos is sticking through a wall or door, like between cargo and marine start on ns_hera, the marines can hit the Onos through the wall.

Legionnaired: As for thinking of new things to do with the abilities, I'd say give it a rest; Nothing we think of will be implimented, especially since it's not like anybody important has listened to the players in a while.

[SwiftSpear]

Yea, I don't know what you guys are talking about, the 2.x Onos was still very very strong, even if you did know where to shoot. I recall easily taking squads of lmg marines, and being able to survive squads of shotgun marines without too much comlpication. Also, a civilian: Devour was implimented with the idea that the Onos would become a hit-and-run aggressor. Without stomp and devour, the aliens have a very tough time taking down heavy trains.

I agree with Bob on the idea of reducing the Onos' hitboxes a tad. At the moment, I could be around a corner, out of general site of marines, yet they'll still be able to hit anywhere just in front of my face if they see my horn since the hitbox doesn't align with the model exactly. Also, if any part of the Onos is sticking through a wall or door, like between cargo and marine start on ns_hera, the marines can hit the Onos through the wall.

Legionnaired: As for thinking of new things to do with the abilities, I'd say give it a rest; Nothing we think of will be implimented, especially since it's not like anybody important has listened to the players in a while.

[snapback]27298[/snapback]

Put a CSesk shield that absorbs 50% damage at the front of the onos (and possibly one that absorbs a smaller percentage at the sides), really force the marines to work for thier onos kills, not because the onos hitbox is deceptively small, but rather becasue you NEED to get around the back or sides to do any decent amount of damage.  At very least the onos wouldn't think twice so much about rushing into a base to assault the TF, and you somewhat resimulate the smaller hitbox in 2.0X, except that the groups of marines doing good damage is switched from marines who were standing close to the onos (2.0X damage cones, more shots hit a closer onos) to marines who position themselfs behind the onos.

[Doobie Dan]

Put a CSesk shield that absorbs 50% damage at the front of the onos (and possibly one that absorbs a smaller percentage at the sides), really force the marines to work for thier onos kills, not because the onos hitbox is deceptively small, but rather becasue you NEED to get around the back or sides to do any decent amount of damage.  At very least the onos wouldn't think twice so much about rushing into a base to assault the TF, and you somewhat resimulate the smaller hitbox in 2.0X, except that the groups of marines doing good damage is switched from marines who were standing close to the onos (2.0X damage cones, more shots hit a closer onos) to marines who position themselfs behind the onos.

[snapback]27322[/snapback]

That certainly seems to have been the intention of the modeler/skinner for LEVEL 5 ALIEN.

[JimRaynor]

It certainly makes sense that the onos would be able to take frontal hits better, again, not like it will ever get implimented since not many people in the dev team bother listening to the 'peons' in the community. It is completely viable because it would allow onos to have a better chance when rushing and make them more team oriented since a fade could rush in and protect their retreat.

[Diablus]

That's true too. From what I've heard, a 3.x Onos alone is not the uber killing machine that it once was. In 2.x, a well-played Onos was almost invincible as long as he had two hives to back him up. Blame the rest of the team for not helping him.

[snapback]26983[/snapback]

Not really.  In 2.x the Onos died in around 30 HMG bullets.  Admittedly it had a much smaller hitbox, but it still died much faster than the current Onos against marines who knew where to shoot.

[snapback]26998[/snapback]

Yes, but now they die fast to people who Marines who Dont know how to shoot <_<  Let alone people who know how to shoot..... :angry:


But I have to slightly have to disagree with Swiftspear's argument. A good Onos *cough * can take on a Team of Marines, and keep them in thier base to prevent them from expanding and cut the gorges a break and not rush them to expand.
(this is at 2 hives of course, hive 1 Onos's name should be changed to "waste of your res" or "free kill".)

THOUGH most of the work is done from the Fades, who basically are the Only real match against upgraded Marines. The Onos is kindve like, a "security wall"when you think about it. Just incase the fade(s) die Aliens still have something decent backing them up.

[Malibu Stacey]

I agree with Bob on the idea of reducing the Onos' hitboxes a tad. At the moment, I could be around a corner, out of general site of marines, yet they'll still be able to hit anywhere just in front of my face if they see my horn since the hitbox doesn't align with the model exactly. Also, if any part of the Onos is sticking through a wall or door, like between cargo and marine start on ns_hera, the marines can hit the Onos through the wall.

[snapback]27298[/snapback]

This has a lot to do with where your viewpoint is in relation to the model you represent in the world. It appears that your viewpoint is the dead centre of the model on all 3 axis. This isn't so bad on normal vertical standing models like marines and fades as it will appear that your vision is coming from mid chest height which isn't too far off the head however with models like the skulk, gorge & onos it causes a lot of problems. How often have you hid somewhere as skulk & still got shot while it looks on your screen like the bullets are hitting the air infront of you? This is because the viewpoint is in the midriff of the skulk (makes the skulk viewmodel look a lot nicer than it could be, imagine trying to bite marines looking through the skulks intestines instead of its mouth!).

If anyone has the power, add this to the bugtracker (I know some of you people are NSGuides and/or Playtesters).

[SwiftSpear]

That's true too. From what I've heard, a 3.x Onos alone is not the uber killing machine that it once was. In 2.x, a well-played Onos was almost invincible as long as he had two hives to back him up. Blame the rest of the team for not helping him.

[snapback]26983[/snapback]

Not really.  In 2.x the Onos died in around 30 HMG bullets.  Admittedly it had a much smaller hitbox, but it still died much faster than the current Onos against marines who knew where to shoot.

[snapback]26998[/snapback]

Yes, but now they die fast to people who Marines who Dont know how to shoot <_<  Let alone people who know how to shoot..... :angry:


But I have to slightly have to disagree with Swiftspear's argument. A good Onos *cough * can take on a Team of Marines, and keep them in thier base to prevent them from expanding and cut the gorges a break and not rush them to expand.
(this is at 2 hives of course, hive 1 Onos's name should be changed to "waste of your res" or "free kill".)

THOUGH most of the work is done from the Fades, who basically are the Only real match against upgraded Marines. The Onos is kindve like, a "security wall"when you think about it. Just incase the fade(s) die Aliens still have something decent backing them up.

[snapback]27364[/snapback]

Sorry person who's thread we derailed

Diab, I think I need to clarify that I said that in response to someone complaining about an onos who was dragging out a game by not attacking the marine base.  A single onos is an extreamly potent counter to all forms of marine expansion, but can do little or nothing to acctually damage a well established marine base, expecially with marines camping it.  My point was that you can't blame a single onos for prolonging a game, it is the fault of his team who isn't giving him enough backup, or going onos themselfs, that the game isn't ending.

[Doobie Dan]

This has a lot to do with where your viewpoint is in relation to the model you represent in the world. It appears that your viewpoint is the dead centre of the model on all 3 axis. This isn't so bad on normal vertical standing models like marines and fades as it will appear that your vision is coming from mid chest height which isn't too far off the head however with models like the skulk, gorge & onos it causes a lot of problems. How often have you hid somewhere as skulk & still got shot while it looks on your screen like the bullets are hitting the air infront of you? This is because the viewpoint is in the midriff of the skulk (makes the skulk viewmodel look a lot nicer than it could be, imagine trying to bite marines looking through the skulks intestines instead of its mouth!).

If anyone has the power, add this to the bugtracker (I know some of you people are NSGuides and/or Playtesters).

[snapback]27400[/snapback]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the viewpoint comes from the edge of the hull.  For an onos, this is smaller than his model, therefore your hitbox is smaller than your hull, hence the getting shot through doors when your model sticks through.  If you crouch, it's even more noticable, because a crouched onos' hull gets smaller in all 3 directions (exactly same size as marine/fade).

[Malibu Stacey]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the viewpoint comes from the edge of the hull.  For an onos, this is smaller than his model, therefore your hitbox is smaller than your hull, hence the getting shot through doors when your model sticks through.  If you crouch, it's even more noticable, because a crouched onos' hull gets smaller in all 3 directions (exactly same size as marine/fade).

[snapback]27460[/snapback]

You're wrong.
AFAIK the HL engine can handle 3 hulls. First one is normal gordon (read biped IE marines and fades) size the 2nd is crouched gordon size which is used for skulks, gorges, lerks & crouched marines & fades and the 3rd is Onos however I have no idea which is used for a crouched onos however I expect it would be the first.
Again AFAIK hulls & hitboxes are unconnected to viewpoint orientation in the HL engine.