Author Topic: The Cool People  (Read 6602 times)

August 21, 2004, 10:40:26 PM
Reply #40

BobTheJanitor

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You know, the stacking problems sounds vaguely like a twisted version of the classic prisoner's dilemma. (Read that little article if you're not familiar with it, it's a neat concept to know about)

If the good players all stack one team, they're guaranteed a win, but not a very good one. If only one or two players choose the opposite team, they're guaranteed a loss, and a painful one. If all players work together to even the skill level, everyone's guaranteed a part in an enjoyable game, win or lose. So with the payoff being fun, it would go cooperation = fun, stacking = minimal fun, anti-stacking = negative fun.

I think this is where the problem comes from. Everyone's afraid so stack against the good team because they're taking a risk. If they're the only one that does it, they're guaranteed a payoff of a crappy game and wasted time with no fun to show for it. The guaranteed fun is to stack the team with the good players. The problem there is that it's only a minimal amount of fun. It's a decent game, but when the marines are stacked and the aliens never get a second hive and never evolve above skulks, it's not much fun at all. Then if people take the risks all around and try to keep the teams even, everyone is rewarded with a good game that lasts 20 - 30 minutes or more, with hard fighting on both sides. The payoff of great fun and games worth remembering. That's what everyone wants, in the end, but no one wants to risk themselves to have those games.
It is truly a dilemma.

Lunixmonster: Banning the NS community one smacktard at a time. -lolfighter
there are a lot of aaaa...mmmmm.... "HAPPY" pirates on this ship. -GrayDuck

August 22, 2004, 12:40:55 AM
Reply #41

FireWater

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I'll do my part, because every idea I suggest gets reverted back to either my competitive experience or CAL some how.

Tell you what, I'll play against stacked teams everytime I play on LM, I actually enjoy the challenge.
Bant!

August 22, 2004, 01:51:17 AM
Reply #42

Necrosis

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Meh if anything it's good practice, surely someday I'll figure out how to kill Eb.


I have to agree tho that its not fun being the only competent head on a team of smacktards... on aliens you only need 2 people with a brain to guarantee an interesting game, and on the marine side you need perhaps 3 (assuming a fool is in the chair) to guarantee a fun game for them too.

But such things are easily regulated by our little community... I mean if someone keeps picking the same stacked teams over and over, we're bound to start thinking they're a bit of an undesirable.



On the BoP issue, forcing random doesn't take care of skill stacking, because you've the same chance of all the skilled players ending up on the same team. Secondly, if you've to be FORCED into doing what most consider to be "the right thing" then are you really on the right server?
Necrosis killed Holy_Devil with pistol
Holy_Devil: cheater

August 22, 2004, 07:36:28 AM
Reply #43

Kodiac

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skill stacking? again?  ah well.....Yup, random.

But when teams are even.....just look at them.  If there is a skill stack, it should be apparent immediately.  And honestly, who actually enjoys crushing the other team completely?  I prefer the epic games that take an unholy amount of time and the balance swings between the teams many times.  I think its just your judgement, bottom line.

PS- It helps to ask which team wnats you.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2004, 07:39:29 AM by Kodiac »
Kodiac teh Pirate Bear
One part comm, one part cheerleader, 3 parts cuddly bear

August 22, 2004, 02:03:18 PM
Reply #44

Diablus

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May i say:

The only reason why Regs stack on one another is because Like me, everyone HATES to be the only one on the team building, and achieving the damn teams goal instead of caring only for myself. So many people are looking for leet scores and are caring less and less about "winning for the team" it's rediculous.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2004, 02:03:53 PM by Diablus »

August 22, 2004, 02:44:14 PM
Reply #45

Satiagraha

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I go randome regardless of who's on what team. If that sticks me on a stacked team, I usually don't even notice. Sorry guys, I go where the wind blows me :p

We are the shadow that comes in the night and says "ARRR!"
"yarrr I'm gaybeard the butt pirate, and I've come to plunder yer booty!" -TAK

August 22, 2004, 04:31:39 PM
Reply #46

Zek

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Bob has the right idea. That's exactly what the problem is. The thing about Random Team is that it's rarely random at all; it would be more accurately labelled "Join Smallest Team." Going Random(or just joining the smaller team yourself,  it's the same thing) is, simply put, a gamble. Not because you aren't sure which team you'll end up on, but because you aren't sure what everyone else is going to do. If the rest of the regulars decide to stick with the safer team, you and the poor newbs on your team are screwed. If a handful of them decide to leave the other team's portal and join yours, then maybe you'll actually get a good game. Unfortunately, most of the regulars don't like to take that sort of a gamble. They're afraid that if they go random and join the smaller team, another skilled regular is going to slip into the stacked one and the stacking will continue. Joining a stacked team may not be as much fun as an even game, but it beats the hell out of getting raped.

That's why BoP is the ideal solution. It makes teams truly random and gets rid of the mind games involved in choosing them.

Or, how about this; a plugin that makes it impossible to join teams for the first 10-15 seconds of the map, but if you join random it puts you in a queue. Once the time is up, everyone who went random is randomized simultaneously, and the rest can join as they see fit.

August 23, 2004, 05:01:00 AM
Reply #47

lolfighter

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Quote
You know, the stacking problems sounds vaguely like a twisted version of the classic prisoner's dilemma.[...]
[snapback]27033[/snapback]

Damn good observation, mon. The worst thing about the prisoner's dilemma is that nobody has yet been able to come up with a good solution to it. The only way for it to work is to have one side make a leap of faith and risk their neck and hope that the other side chooses NOT to screw 'em over. Truly a dilemma.

August 24, 2004, 11:07:53 PM
Reply #48

Asal

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I generally have to follow kodiac around, because he talks loudly enough for me to hear when I play.....so that means I kinda end up cheating if I play against him (I have spies?)  In any case, it makes it VERY hard when he comms.....
Asal 'The Unforgiving'
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"I will live to be immortal...or die trying!"

August 25, 2004, 09:41:27 AM
Reply #49

Niteowl

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STOP MAKING THIS COOL PEOPLE THREAD A BLOODY NS I&S forum you GITS!!!!

this is about being cool!!!! evening the skill (obviously, some ppl are better at evening the skill than me, read, all).

i'm SOO going to split this crazy meandering thread!
"I don't have to know an answer, I don't feel frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in a mysterious universe without any purpose, which is the way it really is as far as I can tell. It doesn't frighten me."
-Richard Feynman

August 25, 2004, 10:04:48 AM
Reply #50

Asal

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Quote
STOP MAKING THIS COOL PEOPLE THREAD A BLOODY NS I&S forum you GITS!!!!

this is about being cool!!!! evening the skill (obviously, some ppl are better at evening the skill than me, read, all).

i'm SOO going to split this crazy meandering thread!
[snapback]27333[/snapback]

NOES! NOT ZE THREADZPLIT!
Asal 'The Unforgiving'
Fedaykin, Warrior of the Desert Mouse

"I will live to be immortal...or die trying!"

August 25, 2004, 07:31:45 PM
Reply #51

SwiftSpear

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Sorry Nite :(

I wonder if maby I should be joining the stacked team more often...  God knows, I certainly can't help the other team too much  <_<
<------OOOooooOOOoo, Hyperlink!
Final Hope Faith, COME ONE COME ALL

November 09, 2004, 12:17:07 PM
Reply #52

Niteowl

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Currently, and as far as I can remember, the COOLEST person in the LM community is..






HOLY DEVIL!

yeah, you know it! he's always on the OTHER side of the penguins. BE COOL you damnable stacking booger heads!!!!! YAR!
"I don't have to know an answer, I don't feel frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in a mysterious universe without any purpose, which is the way it really is as far as I can tell. It doesn't frighten me."
-Richard Feynman

November 09, 2004, 12:49:15 PM
Reply #53

rad4Christ

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ACK, thread necromancy. Admin_slay!!!
tim
Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important. CS Lewis

SheenaYanai
: why do i have to be a stone? i dont want to be a stone... i want to do some harm.... can i be a exploding stone at least?

November 09, 2004, 01:45:42 PM
Reply #54

Niteowl

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threadromancy only because it's STILL HAPPENING!! :o
"I don't have to know an answer, I don't feel frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in a mysterious universe without any purpose, which is the way it really is as far as I can tell. It doesn't frighten me."
-Richard Feynman

November 09, 2004, 01:58:22 PM
Reply #55

Malevolent

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Yes it is still cool to be cool. Besides HD was cool because of his burning ban hammer icon (although a lot of newcomers think it's a cross :p).
It's twice as clear as heaven and twice as loud as reason.

November 09, 2004, 02:54:55 PM
Reply #56

rad4Christ

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Hey, I'll have you know I almost always random, unless:

(A) I want to play marine or alien specifically, in which case I join usually first, or

(B) I join late, then I try to join the one with least kills (not that I'm great in that dept)


And I have to give ebnar props. We were on Tanith, and the marines were pretty skill stacked. Ebnar was about the 3rd one to join marines, and I voiced my concern on the skill distribution, and he promptly changed teams. I know that probably sucks that he didn't get top play marines if you wanted to, but the game turned out to be very good. Thanks ebnar, you Norwegian knucklehead, you.
tim
Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important. CS Lewis

SheenaYanai
: why do i have to be a stone? i dont want to be a stone... i want to do some harm.... can i be a exploding stone at least?

November 09, 2004, 03:06:34 PM
Reply #57

ebnar

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No problem, rad. Was glad to:] Went on to be a pretty good game as well. gg


November 09, 2004, 11:28:58 PM
Reply #58

a civilian

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I was told that switching teams to even the skill was not allowed.  :/

November 09, 2004, 11:38:55 PM
Reply #59

EmperorPenguin

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I think movements have been made to try and reduce skill stacking, I don't see it happen as much as it used too (though I wouldn't say it's gone).  Sometimes it's hard to avoid a stax when you get noobs that rush Marines.  I think this has increased, because now we're seeing some Alien stacks instead of just Marine ones like we used to.  I guess any change is good change  :p

I would encourage you to check the teams before rushing random though.  While Random is great when lots of regs and resslotters are on, but when most of the players are new you may well get random-stacked.  I never thought it would happen but I keep seeing it.  Stupid marine rush.

At any rate, if we can count on anyone to keep the games fair, we can count on the LM regs.  I mean, I try my best, but when you're an exceedingly average player like me you really can't claim to be affecting the balance all that much.

"What is it that makes a complete stranger dive into an icy river to save a solid gold baby?  Maybe we'll never know."