More Is Better

[Tombomb]

I was wondering do the admins limit the server to 16 people for a reason because there are so many people now that i think we could get an 18 or 20 people server.  I also know that like a 10 skulk rush on a base would be harsh same with a 10 rine lmg rush to a hive.  so what you guys think? more is better?

[Diablus]

more players = more aliens = less res for aliens = aliens lews more and more often.

thus: More players is bad.

[Leaderz0rz]

7vs7 is equal res for aliens and marines,thus its even

[Niteowl]

10v10 or 9v9 is a very unbalanced rine game. you don't want to see it. believe me.

[Dark]

8 players a side is just fine though the occasional map playtest we have makes one team have 9 but that doesn't really matter.  as it stands right now i enjoy the 8v8 games

[Tombomb]

ok dokes just wondering cuz that way we would have less res kicks    o_O

[Grimm]

We need to get some good 16 vs 16 games going.  :lol:

[Seth]

i think it'd be a good idea to up the player count and there by slowing the alien res flow because lets face it marines only win due to stupid aliens spending res in the wrong places...

what it boils down to is the 3min fades, 5 min onos, it ruins the game

marines dont have enough time to tech up enough to properly challenge a fade/onos in that time, this problem is compounded when teams are small and alien res flow is even faster.


as it stands now marines (even if you tech right off the start) have only enough time to get A1, W1 and then either W2 or A2 when the first fades start to pop up, not to mension spending that res on the upgrades leaves nothing for shotgun drops and meds/ammo

as we all know healing for aliens is free, for marines it cost the whole team.

[Slink]

please, think of the lag...



Cuz dialup makes baby gorgies cry.

[Satiagraha]

more players = more aliens = less res for aliens = aliens lews more and more often.

thus: More players is bad.

Yeah, Aliens' res economy = crap

I've played in 2v3 games (2 aliens, 3 rines) and the aliens win because one gorge gets 3 res per tick and spams chambers, while the other reaches fade at 2:00

I think that 7v7 is a very balanced size

[Fewlio]

Well seth, you have to take into account the "good players". As in, a single good player can turn the tide of the game. Take for example a civ fading on aliens, even if the marines are quite good and the aliens are a bit lost, it will still be a tough game. I don't think you need a marine example, mainly because I want to go play NS right now ^_^ and I'm too tired to remember any marine examples.

[Seth]

thats because simply there are no marine examples, this just outlines what i've been saying for so long... and my god i've been saying for a long time.

1 good player ie aciv for example can change the output of a game, BUT it takes at least 3 to 4 good marines to take down 1 good alien.

we all know this game is bias'ed to aliens, and if you dont you should be shot.

simple fact, aliens have more HP, a single onos can win a game, while it takes 4 shotgunners to take out one onos with regen and a good know how of the map.

(edit, oh and i wont even begin to discuse how a crappy commander severly handicaps his team by not giving weapons and supples to the correct soldiers, while the aliens have no command structure to worry about... can we say biased!)


this is a most one sided game i've ever played, and quite frankly i only stay around for the command chair, but i still play marine just for the challenge.

i'd be the first to vote for alien head hit boxes, ie, aim for the onos eye, close range = insta gib.

[JHunz]

as we all know healing for aliens is free, for marines it cost the whole team.

healing close to base only costs an armory, which most comms build anyway

Oh, and an onos dies like paper already to even multiple LMGs.  You want to be able to instagib a 75 res investment?

[Dirty Harry Potter]

i'd say Keyser is a pretty good marine example, at least on our server. Also I doubt that LB is going to change the player count, since, NS is in the beta stages, and it's supposedly balanced for around 6-8 players per team, this is sorta the same as Combat time limit.

simple fact, aliens have more HP, a single onos can win a game, while it takes 4 shotgunners to take out one onos with regen and a good know how of the map.

first of all it doesn't take 4 shotgunners to take down an onos, secondly 4 shotties are cheaper than an onos, thirdly if the onos dies, he loses his lifeform while the shotties can be reused, forthly if the onos can reonos after you've killed him, you haven't put enough pressure on their nodes.

[Grimm]

First of, I'd like to recommend to Seth a simple thing called punctuation (and not just a comma here or there between massive run-on sentences). It clarifies your statements more and makes reading your posts less of a headache. Please.

Secondly, you must not have played on the Lunixmonster recently Seth. Nearly every game I've been getting in, the Marines have won. Granted, each of those games it was the regulars stacking 'rines, it still shows that it isn't too hard to defeat the Kharaa. Every fade out there isn't a civilian, Fades are not instant alien wins. Granted, a good Fade can make it a tough battle, it still doesn't turn the tides unless the other aliens are taking down marine res nodes, putting up their own, and expanding into new hives. It takes a lot of work for the aliens to win against people who know what they're doing, and we have plenty of people who know what they're doing on the Lunixmonster. Now, other servers might be a different story, but the last thing we need for the game is instant one-shot kills against an Onos. Hell, the last thing the game needs is to give the Marines any more of an advantage. Either way, the Onos is still terribly underpowered compared to what it used to be.

[Fewlio]

thats because simply there are no marine examples, this just outlines what i've been saying for so long... and my god i've been saying for a long time.

1 good player ie aciv for example can change the output of a game, BUT it takes at least 3 to 4 good marines to take down 1 good alien.

we all know this game is bias'ed to aliens, and if you dont you should be shot.

simple fact, aliens have more HP, a single onos can win a game, while it takes 4 shotgunners to take out one onos with regen and a good know how of the map.

(edit, oh and i wont even begin to discuse how a crappy commander severly handicaps his team by not giving weapons and supples to the correct soldiers, while the aliens have no command structure to worry about... can we say biased!)


this is a most one sided game i've ever played, and quite frankly i only stay around for the command chair, but i still play marine just for the challenge.

i'd be the first to vote for alien head hit boxes, ie, aim for the onos eye, close range = insta gib.

Romano.

I say romano because he I absolutely know is very good, don't want to say someone else who's skill has changed .

If you have romano and a commander who medspams romano on one team, versus a team of average aliens as in, not a civ, then the marines will *never* lose.

But god damn seth, how the hell can you say "THERE IS NO MARINE EXAMPLE!" I mean the only reason I didn't give an example is because I haven't played on LM much recently, so I don't know who the current crack-shot is who if they go marines they tend to win.

A single onos can NOT win a game, two people can take down an onos *easily*. Unless 3 hives, then it takes 4 people thanks to charge speed bonus.

The reason why it is such a hard game to balance is because its :Ding melee vs. range. Now melee should have more health considering they have to run up to the person shooting them and attempt to hit them. A lot of people tend to be bad at aliens, hence why I find it quite easy to play marines. More people know how to aim down a hallway than sneak up on the guy shooting down the hallway and wait for them.

The game is all fades right now, but if you block the doorway the fade cannot escape  thanks to the fact that fades are hit and run hrmmm.
 
Oh yeah I forgot to say, do you have any idea how hard it is to play fade like civ? I mean he played fade every game for months on end! I can't even run into most marine starts blink around then blink out, I die in the doorway.

I also played skulk nearly every game back in 1.x, and I played every day. Now I can barely kill bad marines at hive 1 without dying a lot, hence why I stick to gorge. I still love skulking though .

I don't understand how you can say that aliens are too strong considering we are all pubbers here, I mean when the server fills up with regs we have hour long games, just for the marines to win.

[Seth]

it appears i have hit a touchy subject, i could be wrong and probably are but most games i've been in the marines are terrible shots most times killing each other let alone killing a lone skulk.

the reason i say there is no marine example is because there is none, due to fools changing their names every round i cant keep track of the "good" players anyways.

all i see on LM is lmg's dying to lone skulks then at about 5 mins 4 or 5 fades pop up, how is this fun?

it boils down to crapy marines i know that, but a antibhop=adren loss would solve half the problems then a head hit box for fades and onos would solve the other half...

they should have more HP because they have to charge in says you? you are so wrong, with headbox's they'd be forced to ambush like they are ment to be, and anything short of 2 - 3 onos couldnt take over a MS and ontop of all that redemtion would have a use once again.

i'm not saying headshots would be total instagib i meant something like +2 dmg compaired to just hitting him in the butt.




PS, dont complain about my speling most of these are patched together under heavily medicated/alcohol enduced states, your lucky its not all cuss words and bad grammer.  

[lolfighter]

But the general consensus is that marines are stronger than the aliens, as long as they know what they're doing. As Nemesis Zero once said: Unfortunately we can only balance the game, not the players. If you view the aliens as too strong while everyone else views them as too weak, then it's the player balance there's something wrong with in the games you play. Nerfing aliens is no solution when most people view them as too weak already.

[Grimm]

Seth, it would help to actually listen to the rest of us, and not make up random 'facts' about the game. You say that 4 or 5 fades show up 5 minutes into the game, when in all actuallity this is nearly impossible; even on an 8 vs 8 game, nobody would be able to save up enough res to Fade 5 minutes into the game if only 3 people put up resource towers. Not to mention that, in order to be strong fades that deal some damage to the marine's game, they would need at least three defense chambers, and hive 2 would eventually be needed to get movement chambers and the extra ability. It just isn't a feasable plan, and listing random "fixes" like "alien head hitboxes" isn't going to help anything. And I'd like to get one thing clear about the Kharaa: Yes, some of the life forms like the Skulk and maybe the Fade are meant for sneaking and ambushing, but the Onos is the tank of the team, it's supposed to be somewhat the equivalent of a heavy armor. It's impossible for something that big to be able to sneak around and ambush anything, especially with how much stomping around it does. Also, it already takes more than 2 or 3 Onos to take down marine start. So, if you please: Listen to other people, think about how the game is actually played and what is actually feasible, and stop suggesting random, inane ideas that will only unbalance the game even more.

[Diablus]

yea yea lolfighter, I tend to go a bit overboard when someone calls aliens extemely overpowered and they need anymore nero_oe in the most idiot suggesting ways.