Author Topic: Lm Community Made Map  (Read 31191 times)

June 08, 2004, 01:07:42 PM
Reply #80

fatty

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all of the hives look like double nodes pretty much. maybe you want to spread the rts out more. ns_eclipse is the PERFECT example of rt placement in my opinion. as a gorge in the first 30 seconds to drop a quick node, you don't feel "safe" anywhere on eclipse, i like that.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2004, 11:20:58 PM by fatty »

June 08, 2004, 01:14:32 PM
Reply #81

Dubbilex

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Edit: (I haven't edited anything in a while) @ Dubb - it seems like with that maint access area  you've got some sort of level over level thing going on. Is that the case, or am I seeing it wrong? Remember that level over level is a big no-no except in very limited applications. You either can't drop stuff on the lower level or on the upper level. Have to make it small enough that you can move your view over to the side of the upper level and see the level below it or something similar.

Actually looking at you diagram it looks like the entrance is near the node but then sort of jumps off to one side. If that's the case then carry on, everything is fabulous.
Yep - as you can see in picture three, the entrance of the maintenance vent thing is right above the entrance to the RT platform.  But I made it veer off to the side and go around the outside of the room.  So yeah - there is that one little bit of the way that you can't actually drop anything, but it's both in a really bad place to drop anything and in a depressed area.  

What I'm saying is that basically, the only thing you'd be dropping there are medpacks and ammo anyways.  I realized this was a no-no but I really liked how the actual vent connected with everything, so I kept it.



And regarding the nodes - I want as few nodes as possible, myself.  To be perfectly honest, I think a double-node would be a bad thing, because those things just tend to speed up the game.  A good 9 or 8 nodes seems like a perfect amount to have (1 in the MS, 3 for the hives, and 4 or 5 around the actual map.  But then again, this isn't my decision - does anybody else have any interjections or suggestions?

June 08, 2004, 01:45:12 PM
Reply #82

BobTheJanitor

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@ fatteh: Bear in mind the first thing I pointed out. That is a connectivity layout ONLY. It does not indicate the actual hallways, only that you can get from one place to another. If you saw the same layout of eclipse, you'd probably think that all the hives looked like double nodes, but it's just not the case.

@ Dubb: I don't like lots of nodes either, it makes the game messy. The map as is only has 10, the requisite 4 for hives and MS and six scattered about the map. I think dropping the node out of the room north and west of the big room outside the middle hive would be a good choice, because that room is already a minor strategically important choke point. (I mentioned this earlier too) So that gives us only 9 nodes. The map with the fewest nodes (eclipse) has only 9 nodes. I don't think we'd be able to go any lower than that.

And there are NOT any double nodes. The number TWO was there to indicate the area for POINT TWO in my post. Are you people reading? AAAHHH!!!!!! I don't like double nodes, especially outside a hive, that'd just be ridiculous.  :help:

Lunixmonster: Banning the NS community one smacktard at a time. -lolfighter
there are a lot of aaaa...mmmmm.... "HAPPY" pirates on this ship. -GrayDuck

June 08, 2004, 01:49:46 PM
Reply #83

Niteowl

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GIMME MORE NODES!!!
« Last Edit: June 08, 2004, 01:50:05 PM by Niteowl »
"I don't have to know an answer, I don't feel frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in a mysterious universe without any purpose, which is the way it really is as far as I can tell. It doesn't frighten me."
-Richard Feynman

June 08, 2004, 02:18:36 PM
Reply #84

BobTheJanitor

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BAH!  You'll get no more nodes! You'll probably get FEWER nodes. So there!!!

And yeah, that's intended to be a major choke point. But it's also two levels with a catwalk on the upper level. The upper level has the only access to the hive, the lower level has the only access to the north-western room (which is also chokey) and the two areas may not be connected by any sort of ladder or stairs at ALL... maybe. Some PTing will be needed to figure that out. But yeah, probably only 9 res nodes. SO THERE.

Lunixmonster: Banning the NS community one smacktard at a time. -lolfighter
there are a lot of aaaa...mmmmm.... "HAPPY" pirates on this ship. -GrayDuck

June 08, 2004, 02:48:06 PM
Reply #85

Niteowl

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for more analysis, i need better info on the rooms, an dwell, lets face it kids, MORE FREAKING NODES, YA DECK SWABBING MOP LOVING CUSTODIAL ENGINEER!!!!!!
"I don't have to know an answer, I don't feel frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in a mysterious universe without any purpose, which is the way it really is as far as I can tell. It doesn't frighten me."
-Richard Feynman

June 08, 2004, 02:48:25 PM
Reply #86

Dubbilex

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... But yeah, probably only 9 res nodes. SO THERE.
GUD

See, my comlaints about many nodes is the fact that more nodes speeds the game up dramatically, only contributing the the "slippery slope" problem.  The less nodes, the less res will come in, and therefore the games will be longer and harder-fought.  Basically I can tell you this from simple experience - basically every new NS map (Ayumi, Agora, etc) has too many nodes, so half of the actual map isn't even used (rather, whoever caps the nodes firsat just skips through the map killing whatever they desire.).

So in conclusion, I'm much more of a fan of old-school style maps that are more focused on actual gameplay than they are on resources.  SO THERE.

*EDIT*Oh yeah - I'm gonna try to get some demos of my little part, just to run through everything and make sure everyone knows how it's gonna fit together.  But later.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2004, 02:52:41 PM by Dubb »

June 08, 2004, 04:19:15 PM
Reply #87

BobTheJanitor

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NARRR no more nodes. I think nine is perfect. All the good maps are in that exact range. Eclipse has 9. Veil has ten, two of which are a double node. Tanith has ten, again, with a double node. Lost has eleven, one of which must be welded in to. Nothing has ten. Pretty much all the maps that people would agree are well balanced have a smaller number of nodes which are positioned so that none of them are very safe for anyone to grab and hold on to reliably. That makes for the fun games.

Like I mentioned, I think getting a BASIC playable version of the map is important first, and then PTing it. It won't be very pretty without all the nice looking details, but it should be functional. Then we can start screaming over how well it plays with a certain number of nodes and so forth.

Lunixmonster: Banning the NS community one smacktard at a time. -lolfighter
there are a lot of aaaa...mmmmm.... "HAPPY" pirates on this ship. -GrayDuck

June 08, 2004, 06:06:33 PM
Reply #88

devicenull

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Heres one without the two vents running parallel to each other o.O

June 08, 2004, 06:13:10 PM
Reply #89

BobTheJanitor

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ARGH! I'm going to put you in a vent and weld you inside, sir.

I'll put vents in between the three hives. Actually, probably vents to just outside each of the three hives, to allow travel across the alien side of the map. You should never be able to move from one hive to any other hive or to MS without having to step in a hallway once or twice or more. All the vent layouts so far have been WAY too venty. And confusing too. No ns_nancy style vents!

Lunixmonster: Banning the NS community one smacktard at a time. -lolfighter
there are a lot of aaaa...mmmmm.... "HAPPY" pirates on this ship. -GrayDuck

June 08, 2004, 06:44:26 PM
Reply #90

devicenull

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What's wrong with nancys vents?
Vents = GOOD!
We do need a vent from one hallway in MS to the other
And you need vents that go to the obvious chokepoints

June 08, 2004, 07:15:44 PM
Reply #91

Dubbilex

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And you need vents that go to the obvious chokepoints
Wait - isn't that the exact opposite of what we want?  :blink:

June 08, 2004, 07:23:55 PM
Reply #92

BobTheJanitor

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Well, no. Vents that actually go into the choke points are fine. They make for even bigger battles. Like temp control on ns_lost, probably the most defining choke point in any NS map. Quick access to two hives, and not terribly far from the third, plus it's got an RT, plus easy access to most of the RTs on the map. The routes from anywhere to anywhere else go through that room. And there are two vents that lead into that room. There are also multiple leves, to keep it interesting. If it was a flat room, it would be marine ownage. It's also huge, as if it were a tiny room it would be alien ownage. That room is a paragon of the mapper's craft!

/rant off

Lunixmonster: Banning the NS community one smacktard at a time. -lolfighter
there are a lot of aaaa...mmmmm.... "HAPPY" pirates on this ship. -GrayDuck

June 09, 2004, 06:25:07 AM
Reply #93

lolfighter

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You know, you have an excellent point there. Temp control made for some awesome battles in 2.01, I guess that ain't much different in 3.x. Chokepoints for the win! Also, nodes should really be a no-brainer I think: NS shows a tendency towards faster and faster rounds, the scales tip even sooner than ever before, etc. But I think we agree that we don't like this on LM. We like the long, epic games, right? Well, more res leads to shorter games, and to the scales tipping sooner. If the game stays 5-2 nodes for just a minute or two, it's basically over. Thus less nodes = longer games. YAY!

June 09, 2004, 04:24:52 PM
Reply #94

devicenull

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I like vents for the very reason that I usually manage to run into a rambo like 20ft away from where i want to be, which angers me because I have to run across the entire map again.

Vents = WIN

I don't see what you have against a good vent system..
Nancy's was a bit confusing, because it was multi-leveled.. but the one I layed out is fairly simple, moreso with the minimap

June 09, 2004, 04:27:37 PM
Reply #95

BobTheJanitor

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Oh blah. Go back and read one of the ten posts I've made on the subject. Vents should not be replacements for hallways, basically. It makes for lack of conflict. No action makes a map rather dull.  :(

Lunixmonster: Banning the NS community one smacktard at a time. -lolfighter
there are a lot of aaaa...mmmmm.... "HAPPY" pirates on this ship. -GrayDuck

June 09, 2004, 09:20:02 PM
Reply #96

blasify wagiity

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I'm up for helping out on this map when the design is finished...  At least once flaytona is done with and I don't have any more maps to work on there =P

June 10, 2004, 04:35:36 AM
Reply #97

Dubbilex

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Oh blah. Go back and read one of the ten posts I've made on the subject. Vents should not be replacements for hallways, basically. It makes for lack of conflict. No action makes a map rather dull.  :(
I have an idea - how about an official poll?  This is a community map - lets get the rest of the community's stance on the thing :)

June 10, 2004, 06:42:44 AM
Reply #98

lolfighter

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I guess that Bob's point is that vents should be a means to get TO a chokepoint quickly - not around it. Not having to go through a chokepoint means that it's no longer a chokepoint. Chokepoints are good. Vents that bypass them are not.

June 10, 2004, 09:15:03 AM
Reply #99

Niteowl

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Oh blah. Go back and read one of the ten posts I've made on the subject. Vents should not be replacements for hallways, basically. It makes for lack of conflict. No action makes a map rather dull.  :(
I have an idea - how about an official poll?  This is a community map - lets get the rest of the community's stance on the thing :)
i'd prefer to see this as a totatarian regime for the map making, after all, they are doing hte ACTUAL map making :)
"I don't have to know an answer, I don't feel frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in a mysterious universe without any purpose, which is the way it really is as far as I can tell. It doesn't frighten me."
-Richard Feynman