The Truth

[Bogglesteinsky]

Ok this tread is weird ¿ and I love cold weather, was born in New jersey duringa winter month and now i'm living in Miami and I get happy when it's slighty cold.

There is a difference between "hot or cold" and "rainy or sunny" It can be cold and sunny, or hot and rainy.

[Geminosity]

so if I was of the opinion that the moon was made entirely of irish-recipe sausages my opinion wouldn't be wrong? o.O

[lolfighter]

The point is that you wouldn't be right either. :p

[Geminosity]

lol, sorry but opinions can be correct or incorrect.  The moon one obviously being incorrect.  =P

The only way the 'no right or wrong' matter can be applied to opinions is where there is  not or can not be any solid evidence to prove it either way.  That or if you're trying to look at it from the obtuse angle of 'having' an opinion being right or wrong in which case there's no real right or wrong outside of the boundaries of personal morality ~shrugs~

[CForrester]

so if I was of the opinion that the moon was made entirely of irish-recipe sausages my opinion wouldn't be wrong? o.O

Not unless you go there for yourself and lick a moon rock.

[Lito]

it is your right to have an opinion, even if its so blantantly wrong as the example you just gave.  The thing is: No one has the right to tell you if your opinion is right or wrong.  They may KNOW its right or wrong, but they can't tell you otherwise.  I'm not saying that opinions cannot be right or wrong, it just can't be acknowledged as so.  Facts are right or wrong.  If you're attaching "This is Right" or "This is Wrong" onto an opinion, it immediately becomes a fact.  An opinion is NOT a fact.

o·pin·ion
n.
A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.

fact
n.
Knowledge or information based on real occurrences


we all know that your opinion of the moon is blantantly wrong, but once i say that, it becomes a fact, which it is possible to classify as "right" or "wrong".

[Geminosity]

maybe but I just find that justification kinda overly pedantic =/

[lolfighter]

Being "opinionated" is viewed as a negative character trait for a reason.

A good examble is ethics. Take the ever-raging debate on abortion: Everybody has an opinion, and rarely do two people agree. Indeed, finding a solution that is optimal to all parts involved is regarded as unfeasible. To define "right" and "wrong" in this context is equally difficult.

A bad example, on the other hand, is maths. I may be of the opinion that 1+1=3.14 , but such a belief is based on ignorance, not thought, and can be clearly and certainly defined as false. I could claim that I am entitled to whatever opinion I see fit, but that's just stubbornness.

Another bad example is when my opinion differs from fact. Being of the opinion that I am free of debt doesn't save me from my creditors. And insisting in such an opinion is bad for my kneecaps.

[Grimm]

I'm surprised nobody has brought this up yet, so I am going to:

42

[Ulatoh]

the answer is simple, I have no right to tell you what you can or cannot do, that doesnt affect me, therefore, you should be free to do anything that doesnt affect me, If i think it is wrong, then I will choose not to do it, what you do is your own affair.

[devicenull]

I think my third eye thingy has been reprogrammed to accept the light from my computer as sunlight.. it makes perfect sense, Sitting at my computer always calms me

[SaltzBad]

A bad example, on the other hand, is maths. I may be of the opinion that 1+1=3.14 , but such a belief is based on ignorance, not thought, and can be clearly and certainly defined as false.

To me it indicates that you use a different numeric system, nothing else. There is no one "right" way of counting. For the sake of this argument, you should be able to see the difference between what is a norm for the functioning of our society and what is absolute truth.

Contrary to common perception, there is at any one time only one absolute truth - ironically the most subjective thing, your thoughts and feelings. These cannot be altered directly, and are the only reality you have. What you do with that is absolutely up to you, and noone can say that any one approach is incorrect simply because its less useful (to them). :p

[Legionnaired]

A bad example, on the other hand, is maths. I may be of the opinion that 1+1=3.14 , but such a belief is based on ignorance, not thought, and can be clearly and certainly defined as false.

To me it indicates that you use a different numeric system, nothing else. There is no one "right" way of counting. For the sake of this argument, you should be able to see the difference between what is a norm for the functioning of our society and what is absolute truth.

Contrary to common perception, there is at any one time only one absolute truth - ironically the most subjective thing, your thoughts and feelings. These cannot be altered directly, and are the only reality you have. What you do with that is absolutely up to you, and noone can say that any one approach is incorrect simply because its less useful (to them). :p

Agreed. There is a single absolute truth, we only have our own impressions of it.

If we have logically more basis or evidence for our supposition of that absolute truth, I see no reason why that supposition cannot be shared. For example, if I know that 1 +1 is in fact equal to 2, there is no harm in attempting to correct someone who thinks that 1+1=3. In fact, I think this should be encouraged.

I have no right to tell you what you can or cannot do, that doesnt affect me, therefore, you should be free to do anything that doesnt affect me

I most certainly have the right to tell you not to kill yourself, don't I? To try and coax you out of self-destructive behavior?

[SaltzBad]

Depends, I think its rather narrow minded of you to assume that a different numerical system, in which 1+1 = pi is unworkable. Who knows - maybe its the solution to being able to quantify circular shapes without rounding (hehe, thats silly as a circular shape is just an abstraction and can never be truely without rounding error by its very definition - but still).

Furthermore, the only good argument you can make against someone killing themselves is that mankind wouldn't really survive with his train of thought - wether you consider it everyones responsibility to contribute to that survival and to what extent or not is just personal bias. No other argument you can possibly make for any sort of behaviour does not negate itself - but usually when discussing truths, we take self-preservance for granted. If we're already going to talk about the abstract that is supposedly the truth, then we'd also have to remove that last bit of unfounded assumption.

And, to top the irony off, that line of thinking has a small benefit in itself : Too often we presume because one way has preserved within reason, there is no other way or other ways are entirely untrue. The least controversial example being a numerical system of your own - any fellow geek here would realize how utterly stupid "1+1 cannot equal 3.14" sounds when I tell them "1+1 = 11", and I doubt they will contest that

We create truths, because its a tool to perceive and manipulate our reality - we make it a truth that things will fall to the ground, we call it gravity. We expand on that - but its still important to realize its just a method of comprehension, not an un-alterable absolute. Hence yes, truth is entirely bendable :p

Bored yet?

I most certainly have the right to tell you not to kill yourself, don't I? To try and coax you out of self-destructive behavior?

Once we ignore legal systems, as much right as you'd have to kill me yourself. All the right in the world :p

[Legionnaired]

Depends, I think its rather narrow minded of you to assume that a different numerical system, in which 1+1 = pi is unworkable. Who knows - maybe its the solution to being able to quantify circular shapes without rounding (hehe, thats silly as a circular shape is just an abstraction and can never be truely without rounding error by its very definition - but still).

Furthermore, the only good argument you can make against someone killing themselves is that mankind wouldn't really survive with his train of thought - wether you consider it everyones responsibility to contribute to that survival and to what extent or not is just personal bias. No other argument you can possibly make for any sort of behaviour does not negate itself - but usually when discussing truths, we take self-preservance for granted. If we're already going to talk about the abstract that is supposedly the truth, then we'd also have to remove that last bit of unfounded assumption.

And, to top the irony off, that line of thinking has a small benefit in itself : Too often we presume because one way has preserved within reason, there is no other way or other ways are entirely untrue. The least controversial example being a numerical system of your own - any fellow geek here would realize how utterly stupid "1+1 cannot equal 3.14" sounds when I tell them "1+1 = 11", and I doubt they will contest that

We create truths, because its a tool to perceive and manipulate our reality - we make it a truth that things will fall to the ground, we call it gravity. We expand on that - but its still important to realize its just a method of comprehension, not an un-alterable absolute. Hence yes, truth is entirely bendable :p

Bored yet?

I most certainly have the right to tell you not to kill yourself, don't I? To try and coax you out of self-destructive behavior?

Once we ignore legal systems, as much right as you'd have to kill me yourself. All the right in the world :p

Hmm, if that's the definition you choose to attach to truth, our comprehension, then yes, it is alterable and still might be correct.

However, there is one and only one reality, and there can be only one of those.

And, as I said before, If my view of reality more logically fits the evidence of that reality than yours, why should I not attempt to change your perception of reality?

For example, I know for a fact that a ceramic pot is hot. You don't see it as being hot, so you assume you can pick it up with your bare hands. Would it not be sadistic of me to allow you to try and pick it up?