Messages

41

General / Awesome Game on Metal

« on: December 13, 2004, 03:10:00 PM »

What an awesome game that was.  I remember feeling absolutely drained towards the end, because it was such a slugfest.

Big thank you to Rad for putting up with our early node-swapping incompetencies, not to mention staying the whole 75min when others might have dropped in frustration.

Also, have to salute Adj for all the crazy hmg/jp work you did.  The dude just kept chasing down onos and fades, gunning them down.  What was that, like a dozen fades on your wall after that game?  What is it with you and flying, anyway man?  Unstoppable.

Thank you aliens for not hitting us quickly enough after the third hive, I can't remember the last time 'rines made it back from a three hive game without some crazy ninja/sg rush.

I think it boils down to Rad's slave-driver attitude towards res.  It was always, grab this node, save that node, kill this node.  He never let 'em go down.

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I stopped counting at 20 fades, several times I killed several in a row and couldn't keep a count.  Definitely killed more upper lifeforms than skulks however.  Aliens lasted so long because they constantly put more nodes up to replace the lost ones and generally kept us busy with basehits.  Aliens rarely do both of those constantly.

42

General / Awesome Game on Metal

« on: December 11, 2004, 08:02:28 PM »

No I'm often pissed off and yelling, it's just not constant.

43

General / Awesome Game on Metal

« on: December 11, 2004, 03:17:49 PM »

No I had mic gain set in windows and ingame, and the volume maxed on both.  Wonder how long it's been like that.

44

General / Awesome Game on Metal

« on: December 11, 2004, 02:44:15 PM »

Glad you said something necrosis, I checked the output and it was maxed.  Whoops.

45

General / Awesome Game on Metal

« on: December 10, 2004, 08:56:41 PM »

Actually he was pretty calm.  I joined at the 20 minute mark or so and proceeded to shred aliens with wreckless abandon, I had to have shot at least 50,000 bullets that game.  For a 15 minute stint I was literally empting HMG clips as fast as I could, with rad constantly ammoing me up.  Games like that are why NS is fun, both teams swung the game back and forth constantly, mainly because aliens hit RTs and put them back up right away, as well as CONSTANT base pressure that was relieved only by building stuff at two locations simultaneously while pressuing the hive.

46

General / REQUIRED READING FOR PLAYERS

« on: December 09, 2004, 11:12:09 AM »

So the spawncamping rule is there to patch up a problem brought in by yet another rule? :blink:

You can probably guess what my suggestion woulda been, but since they aint going to change that, I got nothing more to add.

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If your suggesting that they simply make a rule disallow stat whoring then your not thinking very clearly.  It is the hardest possible thing to prove a person is doing, and is even more suseptable to admin bias then any other rule I can possibly think of.

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I believe he is referring to the rule against concession of the game.

I simply haven't seen the constant premature concessions that some people claim they saw in the absence of a such a rule.  I played on a server for over a year-and-a-half that allowed F4'ing, and I found such incidences to be extremely rare.  Extremely rare as in occurring only once or twice in my entire time playing there.

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Every pub I've played in games end almost every time with the opposing team conceeding.  I realize that many players don't want to wait around to be obliterated and see it as a waste of time, and I support thier right to belive so.  But the fact reamains that I prefer to play a game as if the F4 function didn't exist, thus I am glad that there are at least some servers out there that do not allow premature consessions whatsoever.  The primary function of the no spawncamping rule is twofold to prevent jackass style drawing out of long games and also to prevent stat whoring...  The latter is probably the more problematic when it comes to translation of the spawncamping rule in my opinion...

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Most pub players have little clue how to end the game, especially on the alien team.  It takes 30 minutes to do something that should take about 5.  I've seen 5-6 onos just sit outside ms and devour marines that leave because they're too clueless to realize simply running into MS en masse will present so many hitpoints that the marines literally can't kill them fast enough.  In fact I would say most games end in a slow painful agony due to player incompetence.  Few servers quickly end games, and the ones that do are the ones I normally populate.  I know of another pub server that I generally consider the best because of it's competitive and common sense rules, yet the players aren't necessarily better than any other servers.  

Believe it or not I have a sense of what's fun and what isn't in a game.  I try to make the game enjoyable to everyone, alien and marine alike, regardless of what team I'm on and what I'm doing.  I don't think I've ever sent a marine into a hive to spawncamp, I almost always send them to kill the RT or something else in the hive.  My point in talking about spawncamping was there is a legitimate form that is to accomplish something and a form which is to simply delay the game.  2-3 marines sitting in the hive killing the RT isn't delaying the game, as they most likely have no ability to end the game by themselves.  They are merely carrying out a small objective in order to help win the game, and often they'll get punished for it.  If a spawncamping rule is going to be in place, at least make it very clear what is legitimate spawncamping and what isn't, there's a large difference.

47

General / REQUIRED READING FOR PLAYERS

« on: December 06, 2004, 09:56:46 PM »

You know Necrosis you're always quick to say "You need to understand this" and talk about something.  Well understand this:  Owning a server does not give you the ability to treat the people like trash, nor does adminning it.  When you have a community like LM does, the community at large should decide how things are run and the rules, it's not up the an admin's whim to decide what is good and what is evil.  Poor accountability leads to corruption and inefficiency, and that's what's happening here.  People feel like they can kick whoever they want just because of something they don't like.  

Being a good player isn't a shield.  My point is that people are being singled out for punishment BECAUSE they are good players, and since no one is "banned for skill" most aren't outright banned, an admin nitpicks and finds a reason to do so eventually.  I wasn't pancaking when I was banned, I was simply decimating the entire marine team because literally 2 people on the team could track a skulk, much less a celerity lerk.  "OH NOES PANCAKING LERK, HE MUST BE PANCAKING TO KILL THAT MANY MARINES", banned.  If you're going to ban for skill just do it and put that as the reason, don't ban people and give some lame excuse.  Be held responsible for your actions, state why someone was banned with pride, because as a good community oriented admin, you should want everyone to know why someone is banned, so that it reinforces what is desired and what isn't on the server.  Don't ban someone then use the silent treatment to cover up why you banned someone.  

When you're just running a server with yourself and a few others as admins, sure it's fine to run the server as you want to.  But when there's a large community on a server and supporting it, it's generally in the bests interests of those running the server to listen to the community.  Every single time you talk about this you use outlandish examples that are similar to the scum in the ns.org I&S forums.  "OGM LASER GUNS AND BUGGIES WITH SIEGE CANNONS LOLOLO", same garbage examples that you're using.  When there is large community support for something that isn't outrageous or not within the scope of the community's design, it's probably a good idea to listen and at least understand why they want something done or undone.

In your reply you state that nodes should be used to delay the other team.  How is killing the alien's hive node not using nodes to delay them?  They spawn, they try to kill you, you kill them, you kill the RT, it's that simple.  The point is this:  Aliens should be keeping marines out of the hive, allowing them in is a grave decision to make, since they can not only spawncamp, but destroy the RT and possibly the hive itself given time.  You as 1 marine can probably slow the aliens down with your mere prescence near the hive.  If aliens are dumb enough to rush at you 1 by 1, then they really do truly deserve to lose.  

Necrosis you're something called a Yes Man.  You sit behind the de facto standard, the status quo, and simply reinforce it by repeating the same thing over and over again without really saying anything.  Simply going along with what other people do without asking questions or attempting to alter something you think is wrong is how the most horrible things in the history of the world have occurred, while some of the best and most epic feats in history have occurred because some had the want to ask "Why?" instead of just going along with it.  Which ideology do you think is more effective in advancing whatever it's used in?  If you think stagnation and acquiescing to other's demands is progress, then I guess your way wins 100%.  In reality, asking questions and refusing to accept things simply because they're put to you as law is a far superiour method of improvement.

48

General / REQUIRED READING FOR PLAYERS

« on: December 06, 2004, 07:10:51 PM »

"Not being fun" doesn't disqualify something from being effective and a valid tactic.  I bet many people would say it's not fun to face me as lerk but that doesn't mean I should be banned from lerking, does it?  Of course not, which is why "not being fun" shouldn't be an automatic reason to ban spawncamping.

49

General / REQUIRED READING FOR PLAYERS

« on: December 06, 2004, 04:26:13 PM »

Second, if someone spawncamps you in an rts, would you not say you find it mildly annoying that he's in the position to end the game but has instead decided to whittle your peon units while he builds a Tactical Fusion Cube/Dreadnought Army/Battlecruiser fleet in order to end the game in a humiliation win?

Wouldn't you rather they just roll in and finish it?


I've said it before, NS is not a game where 2 skilled players camp the hive with med/ammo spam in order to allow the other players to cap every node, get HA, and train into the hive. Yes, it can be done, but its not meant to be done.

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Team Starcraft games often devolve to this:  You mass units with teammates and focus on one enemy player.  You blow through easy defenses and bypass anything else, get straight to his peon line, and wipe it out, preferrably while killing the central structure (Hive, CC, Nexus).  This slows them down significantly, if not putting them out of the game.  In NS this translates into 2 things:  Hitting RTs or cutting a hive down in fast fashion.  The way the spawncamping rules are set up you can be banned for doing either or these.  I completely ignore built hives as a marine on LM because I know some admin who doesn't like me much will take notice and relieve me of my slot on the server, even if I'm not doing anything.  

The last time I checked NS is a RTS based game played out with FPS units, it still has strategy involved.  Completely cutting off the enemy team's resflow is catastrohpic to their morale and their ability to wage war, and constant base pressure is a classic RTS strategy to prevent expansion and prevent attacks.  If you remove that suddenly aliens have a free space that they can be in and expect little to no retaliation.  So what you're starting to do is limit the marine team's options even more than they are already limited.  

A spawncamp just to delay the game is ridiculous (when it's clearly over and they simply won't kill the hive when they have the ability to do so) and should be punished.  A spawncamp with an objective in mind that help's secure a marine team victory should not be punished by server admins.  Often spawncamps delay the alien team so more marines can arrive, or so they can complete an objective.  Aliens can hit marine start and force the marine team to either come back to base or beacon, why can't marines do the same?  It's a tactic that while annoying to the person being spawncamped, will 1) Teach them the importance of scouting out and preventing people from reaching the hive to begin with (critical for stopping shotgun rushes) and 2) Make people think of the big picture of how the game is going, and what they should be doing to help the team.  Keeping marines from going into the hiveroom enforces poor gameplay in this way.

50

General / REQUIRED READING FOR PLAYERS

« on: December 06, 2004, 04:05:39 PM »

Archi told me to add my points here since I wasn't talked to for the large text file.  I see several issues with LM, the main one of which is unilateral decisions and interpretations of rules by certain admins.  Many of the admins are quite fine, and I have no problems with strict rules, even if I find them ridiculous (I'll clearly state my opinion, doesn't mean I won't follow them to the best of my abilities).  The problem is when an admin takes a disliking to someone or a group of people and singles them out for speccing, harassing, and eventually kicking/banning.  I pubbed on LM for about 3 months using a smurf name and auth disabled, and not ONCE was I ever spoken to by an admin for anything I was doing.  I played just like I always do, except my name was different.  The first time I pubbed on LM with my normal name and my exigent tag on, I got harassed.  I didn't even have a vet icon, I had a consti, and people still bothered me.  Then I got a Guide icon, and I still got harassed.  Then I got a PT icon, and it really got poured on.  Here's an example of a game that lead up to my thread in the PR Forum.

Small 10-14 player game on ns_veil, I'm on Marines.  Good commander in the chair, obviously either a pub allstar or a competitive player smurfing, he's giving me meds and stuff as I need them.  I have text binds enabled so that when I hit keys that give impulses, they put text on the screen so the commander understands me.  My mic cable was severed (gg steel case door) so I was micless and unable to verbally communicate.  As the comm told me to do something I would hit my "Ackowledged" key which put ((.Yes/Ok/Thanks.)) on the screen.  I did not spam the key, I only used it in direct response to my commander's questions or orders.  Ammo/Meds/Orders also had the same layout as the previous bind.  Throughout a 15 minute game I used all of them a total of maybe 20 times.  About 6-7 minutes in I see a warning on the screen from Lightning_Blue that says "no spamming".  I had multiple teammates muted, so I simply assumed some of them were incessantly yapping, which is why I had them muted in the first place.  Nowhere was I named specifically.  Pipeline hive starts going up, and the comm dropped me a JP/Shotty and sent me in there.  I kill a fade on the way and several skulks, then get to the hive and meet another fade.  I had 9 shells total at this point and 80 HP, so I called for ammo and a med.  I get kicked halfway through soloing the hive with a message of "Text Spamming".  I rejoin, am forced on aliens because of teams, and have to now turn the game back around.  I apologize to the commander because I know that just threw the game, and he quits well before the game is over, most likely in frustration.  The game ends and the map changes to Ayumi.  The server was nearly full at one point, but once people started getting kicked it slowly lost players until we were around 10 at the mapchange.

Next game Vinnie is on the server speccing while lb is playing aliens.  I'm on marines, starting hive is Pressure (top of the map) on ns_ayumi.  A couple minutes into the game lb slays the entire team for spawncamping when the commander drops an armory at the pressure rt and exlicitely tells us on voicecomm "hurry up and build so I can drop shotties, hit the RT".  The RT I was building isnt' completed when I die, and is destroyed before I can get back.  We also lost 2 other RTs once the marines that were pushing ahead of them were slain.  Once Hamasaki is going up we get a PG up nearby and push in with Shotties and possibly a HMG (I really don't remember, I had a shotty which is why I knew some were out).  I pushed into ham and killed probably 2-3 skulks on the way.  I killed lb just outside the hiveroom itself, and pushed in to nail a gorge I heard.  As I was shooting the gorge I suddenly got kicked out of the game.  No reason was given.  I post on the PR Forums, I get magically unbanned but no reason was ever given.  

Things like this should not happen.  While LB does operate the server and makes the rules, you can't just randomly enforce your will like that and expect people to accept it and deal with it.  I've talked to multiple regulars, res slotters, and even admins who  don't like to play with LB on the server.  When you slay random players or even teams, TK them, and make the game not fun for others, who wants to stick around.  I remember the time I was banned for "pancaking" (lol) he slew the entire marine team multiple times and TK'd most of the game.  Do you really think that's fun for the other marines?  I refreshed the server the next game and it had like 10 people on, and by the time I was unbanned the server was empty.  I guess everyone enjoys being slain repeatedly during a game.  Kicking people for inane things like "text spam" (Which is most certainly was not) will make people not want to play on LM.  Taking Necrosis' normal "You don't have to play here" argument into consideration, he's 100% right.  I don't have to play on LM, and neither does anyone else.  That's the point, plenty of people are saying enough is enough and just not playing at all, or at least not playing when certain admins/res slotters/regulars are on.  Personal ideas, past grudges or experience, all that shouldn't factor into admin decisions.  The rules and the spirit of them are what should be used.  If someone is being a wanker, take care of them.  Kicking people using ill-defined or non-existent rules is preposterous and will cause people tired of the bull^^ to stop playing.  Saying "We don't ban for skill" then kicking people who are skilled for other ill-given reasons is the same as banning them for skill, you're simply doing it by proxy.  If I were a poor lerk would I have been banned for pancaking, an exploit that rests on technicalities in Beta5 (BTW, I did the work to help test and give ideas on the lerk flight mechanics, you'll see some of my handiwork in Beta6.  Rest assured that I'm not all Pro-Lerk exploits)?  I most certainly would not have been.  Would Lerklift still be on the server if I didn't fly around like a gork of doom with fatty for a couple of days last month?  It most certainly would be.  You can't say one thing and actually do another, actions speak far louder than words.

51

General / Shotguns

« on: November 23, 2004, 12:39:15 PM »

When a hive dies to a shotgun rush in a scrim or a match, the entire team says the same thing at the same time:  gg piss-poor scouting.  Rushes are all about PREVENTION, not REACTION.  You can't let a PG go up in a hive, lose the hive to a rush, then cry about the shotgun being overpowered.  Prevention is key on alien side, and the reason aliens lose so much is terrible scouting and not getting the units needed when they're needed (all of this is horrible communication).  

Imagine if the comm never dropped stuff when it was needed, it was always 5 minutes late.  I know some of you have had comms like this, they take 2 minutes and 50 text messages to drop a single RT.  This is exactly how most alien teams function, and it's ridiculous.  Aliens have to actively keep tabs on the trouble areas and not REACT to marines being in an area, but PREVENT them from being in those areas.  When you're saying "marines are in double" you're already reacting, you should have kept them OUT of double.  This requires some intelligence and actually having the right units at the scene when they're needed.

The shotgun requires a ridiculous amount of skill to use.  If you go by pure numbers one shotgunner could down the entire alien team, yet almost always 2-3 skulks will take one down.  Use a little bit of phychology, intelligence, and common sense, and it's entirely possible to take down a shotgunner or even a HMGer as skulk with little effort.  By the time shotguns and such are out marines stop even glancing at ambush spots because NO ONE uses them after that initial gambit.  If skulks actually ambushed from smart spots they'd kill a lot of marines.  No, above the doorway isn't smart.  That little cranny that no one checks is the spot you want, or somewhere totally unexpected (Above RTs is always a good spot).  

Rushing marines is pretty damn stupid and most people complain when they ran't run at a marine and kill him (and when that works it's either due to hitbox anomalies because about 85% of the skulks in the game don't hold down crouch OR horrible aim).  About the only time marines should be rushed head on is when they're out of ammo or there is no other choice (Cargo on veil anyone?).  This is why the shotgun seems overpowered, people just run headlong into mass shotgunners and wonder why they die instantly, especially fades and such.

52

General / Demo Of That Game On Hera

« on: November 03, 2004, 11:24:16 PM »

Once your marines have gear ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS drop yourself gear.  I personally give myself any proto-tech and a HMG, because nothing can stand up to the might of a surprise Heavy Machinegun chewing on it.  You shouldn't call for help for skulks in base once a PG is up, get out and shoot it yourself.  If you can't aim well you should really learn to, being able to jump out and nub some skulks is a key thing as comm.  Just know your limits as to what you can handle.

53

General / Pancaking, The Definitive Guide

« on: October 30, 2004, 06:40:09 PM »

That's how a lot of us feel about most ns pubbers, it's just the legacy left behind by vets that prevents that from being acceptable while vet-bashing is.

54

General / Pancaking, The Definitive Guide

« on: October 30, 2004, 09:18:21 AM »

Who said anything about killing structures using lerklift, we were killing marines :p

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General / Pancaking, The Definitive Guide

« on: October 29, 2004, 05:52:39 PM »

Add a power gorge + lerk lift and its all over.

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Yar, I've started lerk lifting gorges and pretty much being unkillable, hspray+cara+cel=gg

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General / Pancaking, The Definitive Guide

« on: October 27, 2004, 01:49:52 PM »

I didn't know being banned from servers meant that you did something.

If I was the type of person who had a sig...

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Do you pub anywhere else?  If you have any skill whatsoever it's entirely possible to be banned simply for being better than the admins on a server.  I've been banned from voogru, g4b2s, and numerous pub clan's servers for things such as "aimbotting" or "scripting" merely because I pretty much destroyed the other team by myself because they were pretty much totally incapable of playing the game at anything but their own level.  Do you think I aimbot?  Because using your logic being banned from another server means that I must aimbot.  Remember Necrosis, I'm one of the few clan players that would actually have a logical argument with you, drop the attitude with me please.

57

General / Pancaking, The Definitive Guide

« on: October 27, 2004, 10:48:59 AM »

The point is I'm not intentionally exploiting the lack of a speed cap, I'm exploiting the fact that most people can't track a small object moving at 750+ units flying in crazy patterns around a small room.  It's a fact that people can track horizontally moving targets easy, they can't track horizontal+vertically moving targets.  It has nothing to do with laggy hitboxes or insanely fast speed.  Probably the only time I ever seriously break the speed cap is diving at people in larger rooms, which when the vertical speed is fixed will still exist so it makes more sense (It makes logical sense to gain speed when going down, but not when going up).  Pancaking is far more abusable with adrenaline than it is with celerity, because you have a serious lack of adrenaline with celerity, adrenaline is pretty much unlimited.

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General / Pancaking, The Definitive Guide

« on: October 26, 2004, 06:29:43 PM »

I didn't know being banned from servers meant that you did something.  Many players get banned from servers for "aimbotting" after they kill about 30 skulks that run in a straight line, doesn't mean they aimbot.  Saying I've been banned from other servers for doing something isn't an admission of guilt.  In fact when they find a server that doesn't automatically ban them for having a good score, they most likely will play there a lot.  People don't like to be outskilled, and where it's "hacks" "cheats" "exploits" or what-have-you, people make up reasons to get rid of anyone better than them.  That clearly isn't the case here.  Seriously, I'm not doing anything wrong, I just want to play and have a good time.  I'm sorry if you get frustrated that I can't easily be killed, make a challenge out of it.  A lot of players I know from outside LM that also play here gang up and try to kill me, and we have loads of fun.  

Note most servers don't even know what pancaking is, much less ban for it.  I usually get banned for "scripts" or "lerk cheats" or some other random crap.  That was simply my way of saying I like playing here because I've been treated fairly in the past by several admins, namely DHP, Wither, Bob, HD, and Redford.

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General / Pancaking, The Definitive Guide

« on: October 26, 2004, 02:27:05 PM »

funny how he WAS warned before, and MULTIPLE admins said its pancaking.
I saw it, and I say its pancaking. and you also ADMITTED to pancaking. so dont come in here and say you wernt when you SAID YOURSELF YOU DO IT!

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This is a discussion on pancaking itself, not on whether I do or not (Nor would I admit to doing so, because pancaking is a blatant exploit of which I have no need to do).  I'd love to see a quote in which I said I did such, because it doesn't exist.  I'm attempting to define pancaking here so I stop hearing "OGM PANCAKER" every time I nail a HMGer that managed to land 2 out of 45 bullets on me.  Flying up and down != pancaking, despite what you may think.  I recorded a couple of demos while redford and grayduck were speccing me that I'll link to later.

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General / Pancaking, The Definitive Guide

« on: October 26, 2004, 11:27:07 AM »

Arg, that was harsh and wasn't what I was trying to say, edited.

I'll record some demos during play on LM, I used to do it all the time because of constant "OGM PANCAKER" cries, but I stopped recently because no one harassed me.  I'll make a few today.