Overly Chatty Penguins

The Ready Room => Off Topic => Topic started by: Reasa on September 26, 2005, 12:37:21 PM

Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: Reasa on September 26, 2005, 12:37:21 PM
It’s been weeks since the last update and I’m beginning to wonder if they are even going to bother to put the site back up.

If they want to move into the retail sector anytime soon they really need to get on the ball.

Anyone here know whats going on?
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: GrayDuck on September 26, 2005, 12:49:23 PM
Weeks?  Unless you're looking somewhere else it's approaching 2 months!
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: Malevolent on September 26, 2005, 02:42:02 PM
Hmm... (http://readyroom.org/)
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: Black Mage on September 26, 2005, 05:02:49 PM
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Hmm... (http://readyroom.org/)
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this is why you plug security holes with a band-aid and not a dremel tool
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: 2_of_8 on September 26, 2005, 05:44:57 PM
Meh, it'll be back up eventually. You can still play NS without the site... and judging by that interview, they're still working on it, at whatever speed. So give it time... lots of time...
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: Leaderz0rz on September 26, 2005, 06:14:20 PM
by the time they get it running no one will be around and no one will care. I've said it before and I will say it again they killed themselves and unless they go to HL2 they will continue to be dead.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: Fewlio on September 26, 2005, 08:24:55 PM
Well, if the next release is damn good people will come back. A lot of people I know still can't run hl2 and don't bother, everything on HL2 is either dumbed down or runs like pure ass. CS:S is the best example, all the real CS players stuck with CS, all the kiddies went to CS:S.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: 2_of_8 on September 26, 2005, 08:53:04 PM
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Well, if the next release is damn good people will come back. A lot of people I know still can't run hl2 and don't bother, everything on HL2 is either dumbed down or runs like pure ass. CS:S is the best example, all the real CS players stuck with CS, all the kiddies went to CS:S.
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Software is moving faster than hardware; more demands are placed on a gamer's PC, and not many are able to fulfill them.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: Black Mage on September 27, 2005, 12:24:36 AM
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Well, if the next release is damn good people will come back. A lot of people I know still can't run hl2 and don't bother, everything on HL2 is either dumbed down or runs like pure ass. CS:S is the best example, all the real CS players stuck with CS, all the kiddies went to CS:S.
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Software is moving faster than hardware; more demands are placed on a gamer's PC, and not many are able to fulfill them.
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either that or all the kiddies went "ohhhh shiney" and all the competative players went "ohhhhh better framerate"
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: Niteowl on September 27, 2005, 07:20:41 AM
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When they set deadlines they don't meet them, and when they don't set deadlines they fail to keep within timeframes reasonably expected of ostensible professionals or even dedicated amateurs. 
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Uhm, yeah, ok, getting people to work for FREE on an aging engine with irascible and caustic fans like yourself is no easy task.

And timeframes according to you, on a genre that's barely been touched, on an engine that keeps making them do hacks around it, with modders who have LIVES and need to find WORK.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: rad4Christ on September 27, 2005, 12:24:17 PM
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Blundering away the popularity of NS, which had the potential to become a blockbuster on the same level as Counter-strike, took an unprecedented level of sustained incompetency on their part, but eventually they pulled it off--it just took them a long time to do it, as with everything else they've never done.
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Fixed.  :D

Sorry, the whole it's a free mod by volunteers on their own time excuse is not working. If I were an investor, and looking at UWE, I'd take one look at NS development and secure my money in some safety deposit box in the world's strongest vault guarded by hyenas who are fed just enough to stay strong with automatic sentry turrets NOT developed by UWE that actually could hurth something and place a restraining order on Charlie "Flayra" Cleveland from even coming near my country.

Look at it this way. The hacking aside, the update schedule is non existent, the management/administration has never been professional, and the dedication has been sporadic. I'm not saying the developers that have assisted haven't cared, I'm saying the whole organizational structure, the PR machine, and Flayra's decisions of what to include in NS and priorities in updates has been total crap. 2.0 was so promising until it was released, then 3.0 and co_ only detered the game further from what made it amazing.

Yes, I'm anal about this. yes, I've said my peace about this game more than I care to, but it astounds me the stupidity that has been displayed and ataking a potential break away blockbuster of a game and creating a mounding pile of rhino pewp, all the while being heeded by many players in the NS universe trying to help the developers by giving feedback on the direction of the game, only to see those opinions ignored.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: Diablus on September 27, 2005, 12:47:15 PM
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Sorry, the whole it's a free mod by volunteers on their own time excuse is not working. If I were an investor, and looking at UWE, I'd take one look at NS development and secure my money in some safety deposit box in the world's strongest vault guarded by hyenas who are fed just enough to stay strong with automatic sentry turrets NOT developed by UWE that actually could hurth something and place a restraining order on Charlie "Flayra" Cleveland from even coming near my country.

Look at it this way. The hacking aside, the update schedule is non existent, the management/administration has never been professional, and the dedication has been sporadic. I'm not saying the developers that have assisted haven't cared, I'm saying the whole organizational structure, the PR machine, and Flayra's decisions of what to include in NS and priorities in updates has been total crap. 2.0 was so promising until it was released, then 3.0 and co_ only detered the game further from what made it amazing.

Yes, I'm anal about this. yes, I've said my peace about this game more than I care to, but it astounds me the stupidity that has been displayed and ataking a potential break away blockbuster of a game and creating a mounding pile of rhino pewp, all the while being heeded by many players in the NS universe trying to help the developers by giving feedback on the direction of the game, only to see those opinions ignored.
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Well said
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: Reasa on September 27, 2005, 04:50:00 PM
If I knew the forums we're going to be down this long (read: indefinitely) I would have called Marik a douche bag for suspending me and probably made some not so vague reference to his small penis and him over compensating for it by pretending to be offended by my mildly off beat comments.

Seriously though I couldn’t agree more with the above comments. The NS team created such a mind blowingly awesome game with such an outdated engine and you have to respect them for that. Unfortunately they have the business sense of a drunken coke addict. I mean are we not supposed to get pissed off when they miss (or ignore) self-imposed deadlines by weeks sometimes even months.

I loved the NS community and I would still if it still had one, but this game has sunk faster then the Lusitania.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: Fewlio on September 27, 2005, 08:36:59 PM
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If I knew the forums we're going to be down this long (read: indefinitely) I would have called Marik a douche bag for suspending me and probably made some not so vague reference to his small penis and him over compensating for it by pretending to be offended by my mildly off beat comments.
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Hey! Marik is good people.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: Lightning Blue on September 27, 2005, 11:13:58 PM
Well said Rad.

NS peaked for me in 1.04 with NG's "mods" and then the very unmodded 2.01 Lunixmonster and then started to go downhill after beta build C of 3.0.

I will say the build of combat in build C was SO AWESOME. Then all the vets complained and 45 builds later we had...3.0. This combined with quite a few other things (the site outage of 2004 anyone?) led to me pretty much hanging up my NS hat.

Then hanging up my HL1 hat for good.

HL2 dissapointed me, on a decent machine the load times are horrible.

Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: That Annoying Kid on September 28, 2005, 09:00:02 AM
NS was the first game I ever played online outside of UT on LAN at school with the "homies" and I still enjoy NS, even thought the population has skyrocketed with n00bs and CSplayers. Flayra is still trying to make a living of making video games, his first project is/was 3/4 most popular HL mod.

For his first stab at making a game NS has by far exceeded expectations, especially with the engine it's on.


As far as I see it, the illuminati campaing to kill NS is in full swing, they've been sekretly delaying releases, and they hacked the site when people who had just came to the mod or had been around for a while were starting to get fed up, thus furthering the loathing for NS.


1.05 FTW eh LB?
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: lolfighter on September 28, 2005, 10:33:20 AM
I know I've asked this before, but indulge me: What was the awesome about Combat build C?
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: aeroripper on September 28, 2005, 12:07:47 PM
This sums up my feelings pretty clearly about the whole situation on the readroom forums (a few days before the interview was released)

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(TychoCelchuuu @ Sep 19 2005, 08:26 PM)
I know the reason, and trust me, it's perfectly benign and appropriate. Don't worry about it; when The Readyroom comes back you'll know too.

That's all the community ever hears is "something very exciting is coming!" or "we can't tell you what it is yet, but trust us it will be worth it". Just keep dangling the carrot then dragging it on for months and months and angering fans to leave the game.

It's pretty unprofessional for UWE to keep missing these dates when they promise them, seeing as how they have 2-3 permanent employees. What kind of confidence would that give a potential investor giving a large amount of money for people who can't even keep a simple deadline? Or is this just part of the "blue ocean" business paradise that charlie speaks so fondly of?

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I joined as a constie about a week before the announcement of constie testing. The Forums go down. I didn't have time to add my Steam ID before they did and now I'm missing out on glorious Constie testing.

Did you all forget that you were in the middle of a public (constie) beta test? I know the consties arn't essential to the testing (and more of a privledge) but at least try to communicate a little to the community to have a place to talk about it. Maybe you could have created a thread here saying "constie 3.1 suggestions" or something small like that. Either give us a way to give suggestions\improvments or cancel the test entirely. Just don't leave us in the dark for nearing two months. And although you were nicer about it crispy you have the same complaint. So i'm not the only one who thinks the constie tests matter.

Now lets look at how the original vision\game for NS has changed almost COMPLETELY. What ever happened to the story of the game, the dark corridors, the much slower and appropriate gameplay? Whatever happened to listening to the "newbies" of the game, rather than the elite of the game that want it to turn it into their own CS mod. Make this hallway wider, these ridges slow my walking down so we need to make them flat and smooth etc etc... It seems like now whenever you try to play a game with skilled people its nothing but a clan match. What's the point of playing a game where a whole group of amazingly skilled marines just sit in the hive spawn camping until they can get the guns to finish it.

How is it that instead of fostering gameplay that rewards players for new strategies, you keep changing numbers here and there trying to find a true balance that will never be accomplished when it really comes down to which team has the better skill stack. That is a whole 'nother issue, one of the main reasons i havn't been playing ns... but maybe that is partly the community as a whole to blame.

This game should not be entirely based on skill and individual accomplishments, it should be based on one whole team against another whole team. The individual should not be able to keep an entire alien team at bay. I could go on forever but it really doesn't matter because the clanners say its all good.

Sometimes it seems flayra should have stuck with what he had going in the early versions and just fix the bugs and work from there. This game is nothing novel anymore, its become CS in space with buildings, and all the ***hole players that come with it. But don't worry, i'm sure that mirage called nexus will be appearing any time now and solve all of the games problems...

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Stop complaining. You don't have a right to play NS.

Isn't it just typical this is the response you get when you have some well thought out issues and complaints?  Sometimes i wish UWE would take at least a few hints from valve and make things more accessible and centered around new people rather than listening to vets the whole time.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: devicenull on September 28, 2005, 12:39:34 PM
Hell, if they had wanted to contiune the constie playtest, they could have set up private forums, protected by A) Apaches built in security, B) only user accounts for consties.  A) denies you access unless you have a valid user name/pass, and is not something that is easy (possibly impossible) to comprimise.


It's annoying, and its killed the mod.  That whole story about a corrupt database? Who doesn't backup the database on a major site before attempting to do a major upgrade.  I'm sure the documents telling how to convert from 1.x to 2.x tell you to back up multiple times.

Even if the database was corrupt, get the forums back up.. even if they are empty.   If you have empty forums and you still have people, they will fill back up.  Forums with lots of posts and no people are pointless.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: Black Mage on September 28, 2005, 05:09:28 PM
to their credit, they are selling out to valve

... and it shows
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: Fewlio on September 28, 2005, 07:32:40 PM
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Sometimes i wish UWE would take at least a few hints from valve and make things more accessible and centered around new people rather than listening to vets the whole time.
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Valve's track record isn't that great...
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: aeroripper on September 28, 2005, 10:33:52 PM
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Valve's track record isn't that great...

Well as far as making their games "easier to pickup".  Like with the hints that popup on weapons and such and what things are in the level etc...

Yea nemesis said they'll go back to the "soul" of NS, i doubt it will ever be what it was but we'll hafta see.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: Lightning Blue on September 29, 2005, 01:28:26 AM
LF: It was a 10 min timer, everything was just like NS almost, simple killing, was fun. I hardly remember but think SIMPLE.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: holy_devil on September 29, 2005, 02:47:45 AM
bms post (http://www.lunixmonster.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=3479&view=findpost&p=53740)

 framerate >>>>>> shiny. sorry. if you can retain shiny while having frameS per second then thats great. a frame per second, or frame per minute, is just horrible. i dont really care about how realistic the bullet holes in the wall behind me(go hl2 hitboxes) are, or how the blood flies off my head when recoil decides to randomly give a headshot. i care about having it playable. hl2 seems to be doing slightly better than when it was released, im having less problems etc, but its still a really heavy engine =\ more possibilities, sure, but you need options to totally destroy the graphics.

rads post (http://www.lunixmonster.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=3479&view=findpost&p=53752)

well said rad :) the newer versions, when i started playing, were either "wow bad" or "hey thats fun", but shortly after that its "sup linear gameplay". being able to predict exactly whats going to happen just gets old =\ sometimes i run across the entire map since i know someone is doing whatever over by some hive or something.

aerorippers essay (http://www.lunixmonster.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=3479&view=findpost&p=53772)

no kidding. i've been both sides of the issue now, the elitist and the pubber. i was elitist when i played tfc, wanted everything to be a match. not sure why, i didnt even enjoy matches really. guess i just wanted the order, instead of anarchy. as a pubber i want the game playable partially by skill and partially not. certain situations skill should overcome, and some it shouldnt. example is onos vs hmg. "onos can take multiple lolz!" says the onos as it dies to one hmger. can list on and on with complaints, but nothing has ever really been done balance wise for marines. just cost changes. </marine_rant> so yea conclusion is; aim for pubbers. add skill things, but make it possible to play even if you aren't perfect.

and yes, i know im still elitist about everything =\ hard to drop it sometimes. i'm trying, though.

another thing i wanted to touch on is slower gameplay. that is definatly needed. its a lot more fun, although it sounds bad on paper. instagibs are no fun for anyone. the differences between say, heavy and light, should be more noticeable. no bhop or wallstrafe stuff. heavy should retain its disadvantage, lack of speed, and gain armor, immunity to spores. fades and lerks...are entirely too fast. the giant skill divide there, aim vs sensitivity 80(skill is being able to not fly into walls 24/7), is really large. it just seems silly. slow it down, we aren't in a rush here. if it "takes too long to get somewhere", good. shouldnt be a short thing to be able to get to a key location. they need to be fought over, not "we're here, we're turtled, bye bye 4 rts."

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Hell, if they had wanted to contiune the constie playtest, they could have set up private forums, protected by A) Apaches built in security, B) only user accounts for consties.  A) denies you access unless you have a valid user name/pass, and is not something that is easy (possibly impossible) to comprimise.

It's annoying, and its killed the mod.  That whole story about a corrupt database? Who doesn't backup the database on a major site before attempting to do a major upgrade.  I'm sure the documents telling how to convert from 1.x to 2.x tell you to back up multiple times.

Even if the database was corrupt, get the forums back up.. even if they are empty.   If you have empty forums and you still have people, they will fill back up.  Forums with lots of posts and no people are pointless.
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(quoted since its short)

indeed =\ its quite obvious they don't care at all. they just dont want to appear to be abandoning something they've worked on for so long, i guess. "bad pr"! .. hi welcome to the past 13959135 versions of ns.

so what have we learned? playability first, graphics last. also, if you're making the game, you're only so good at it. you're one person. dont listen to the clanners, they rarely know what to change. no offense to them, but i was one(diff mod but same idea really), and it just gets silly if you do all of the changes they want. shouldn't have to rely on rates to be able to live, imho.


disclaimer; i dont mean to switch this into a balance discussion, since i know i probably did somewhere above. i was just using some examples that people may be able to relate to. if you want i can use tfc ones next time. but dont take any of it as my final opinion, theres different situations to everything, and the examples can't apply to everything.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: Fewlio on September 29, 2005, 04:52:16 PM
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add skill things, but make it possible to play even if you aren't perfect.
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Does CS popularity finally make sense? I mean spray and then people die of headshots keeps the nubs playing, then there's shooting right and always getting a headshot which keeps the hermits coming back.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: holy_devil on September 29, 2005, 05:31:45 PM
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add skill things, but make it possible to play even if you aren't perfect.
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Does CS popularity finally make sense? I mean spray and then people die of headshots keeps the nubs playing, then there's shooting right and always getting a headshot which keeps the hermits coming back.
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yea it does now. other mods have my interest now, but yea thats a good point =\ the main problem is the lack of immaturity(in general), i believe, for the community. lot of really childish people, but if you can find a good server i'm sure its fun.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: rad4Christ on September 29, 2005, 06:03:37 PM
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the main problem is the lack of immaturity(in general), i believe, for the community.

There is certainly no lack of immaturity in the online community...


I'm begininning to think copious amounts of testosterone and immaturity go hand in hand.


Poor Shina.


 :ph34r:
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: A Boojum Snark on October 02, 2005, 06:56:38 PM
They put up another post... Once again saying it's close, even though it's been a month since the last post about being close.

One thing...
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Another thing we decided to improve during the downtime was our handle/forum naming rules. We've relaxed the rules considerably, and now allow names with any number of capital letters and numbers (though we are removing spaces).

 v_v I knew they should've thought through the stupidity of the original changes more.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: Fewlio on October 02, 2005, 07:11:44 PM
Yes now I can be FeWlIoOoOoOoO on there!
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: Reasa on October 02, 2005, 09:35:32 PM
I wonder how many people are going to come back if they ever get the forums back up.

They we're still hurting from the last 3-4 month outage, I can't see more than 100 or so people coming back...if that.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: 2_of_8 on October 02, 2005, 09:37:13 PM
NS:Source will be their renewal... or could be, depends.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: Fewlio on October 02, 2005, 09:57:50 PM
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NS:Source will be their renewal... or could be, depends.
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After two more years of development.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: aeroripper on October 02, 2005, 10:02:52 PM
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NS:Source will be their renewal... or could be, depends.

agreed, sounds like they want to release a stripped down version to play before adding more stuff incrementally... so maybe we'll see a version by the end of the year hopefully.


Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: lolfighter on October 03, 2005, 04:03:09 AM
It was two months the last time, not three or four. After the forums had been down for three weeks this time, people were complaining how they had been gone for months. I wish people wouldn't exaggerate so much.
Either way, it's not like they owe us anything. We haven't actually paid them anything for NS.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: Bryan on October 03, 2005, 04:54:27 AM
I donated.


Bryan
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: Diablus on October 03, 2005, 09:41:46 AM
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NS:Source will be their renewal... or could be, depends.
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After two more years of development.
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you also forgot the other 8 months of Beta testing by vets who will complain if the game doesnt fit their "vision" of how a game should be played. And that "vision" being unatmospheric utter crap team competative DM that NS is currently.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: That Annoying Kid on October 03, 2005, 10:41:30 AM
I'll go back, keep in mind I haven't had a chance to get on NS in a long time, the outtage is a non factor to me

<-- still a fan
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: Torgo on October 03, 2005, 11:07:39 AM
I completely agree with everything rad4christ has said. That is all.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: Leaderz0rz on October 03, 2005, 11:17:44 AM
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I donated.


Bryan
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we know how awsome the consti program was we have a forum with 2000 pages of concearns and ideas and they never once read any of them to the point it become an off topic forum.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: aeroripper on October 03, 2005, 11:50:39 AM
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you also forgot the other 8 months of Beta testing by vets who will complain if the game doesnt fit their "vision" of how a game should be played. And that "vision" being unatmospheric utter crap team competative DM that NS is currently.

Hit the nail on the head :-/

From what nemesis said their thinking of going back to the "soul" of NS but i doubt it'll go back to what it was when it was released, that is continuing to listen to all the vet players as far as gameplay goes.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: Reasa on October 03, 2005, 07:15:16 PM
It's probably redundant, but given the state of NS now, I may as well say it.

I think we can all agree that the older versions of NS we're much more fun, unique, and enjoyable then the current version.

It seems with every release they aim to shoot themselves in the foot and their core supporters in the groin.

If NS had been first released in its current state I doubt it would have been even half as popular as it was.

The fact that it wasn't another bland run-and-gun watered down pro-CSer mod was what made it so popular, and you would think that the people who created it would be able to understand that.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: lolfighter on October 04, 2005, 11:24:57 AM
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I donated.


Bryan
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Precisely. You donated. You didn't buy anything. Of course, you get more donations if you make a great game, and less if the game is poor. Therefore, NS falls under the same rule as commercial games: The better the game, the more money you make. But you can't buy NS. You get NS for free. And if you want to give some money as thanks, you're welcome. But if the developers were to say "hey, quit the whining. It's like we owe you anything," they would be completely right (and get hugely unpopular).

I'm not belittling your donation, I'm just calling a fish a fish. You didn't buy anything, you donated. If anything, you bought an ingame icon, a forum access and the privilege to beta test. But you didn't buy the game.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: Leaderz0rz on October 04, 2005, 11:51:09 AM
You donate in hopes that it helps develope the game and keep it enjoyable for you. You want to support things you believe in. When they start destroying somthing you believed in and everything starts going down hill you second guess if you should of donated or not. They need to get on the ball and get the forums up and the website up and release media and such every 2 weeks or so for their next release. They need to give people a REASON to look at the website and to check the forums like they did way back when.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: lolfighter on October 04, 2005, 08:02:00 PM
Can't disagree there.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: Necrosis on October 06, 2005, 12:24:55 PM
I'm a constie and i didnt even play the new beta. I mean, whats the point, good or bad I'm playing it for the community. Without the community, there's nothing to enjoy.

So now its back to single player RTS games... saddening.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: SwiftSpear on October 09, 2005, 05:32:01 AM
Meh, I still play when I can.  NS will stagnate for the time being, the game certianly isn't growing any more.  But there's still NSA to play on, and there's always a scrim somewhere.  I think it's a good thing that most of the pubbers are getting bored of the game.  The time between now and an NS:S release isn't going to be pleasant for those sticking through with this game.  It's probably best for all of us if people who don't like playing the game as it is right now just stop and come back in a year or two when the project has a new face and they can look on it with new eyes.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: Fewlio on October 09, 2005, 11:39:03 AM
Swift makes a good point, except I think it will be more than a year or two.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: SwiftSpear on October 09, 2005, 03:28:59 PM
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Swift makes a good point, except I think it will be more than a year or two.
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Depends on how much can be resused and how much needs to be generated from scratch...  Rumor over the grapevine is that at least one texture set has been rebuilt already, and some fun new models are halfway through being worked up...
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: 2_of_8 on October 09, 2005, 03:53:26 PM
Just because the forums are down, doesn't mean that the devs have abandoned NS and spent all your constie money on comic books. Do not assume that work is not going on unless you have reason to believe so.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: Fewlio on October 09, 2005, 05:28:41 PM
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Just because the forums are down, doesn't mean that the devs have abandoned NS and spent all your constie money on comic books. Do not assume that work is not going on unless you have reason to believe so.
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Well it's more of a lack of communication, we feel like we are being left in the dark and that the developers don't care about the community anymore. Work being done doesn't matter if there is no one left to care or play.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: aeroripper on October 09, 2005, 07:49:46 PM
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Depends on how much can be resused and how much needs to be generated from scratch... Rumor over the grapevine is that at least one texture set has been rebuilt already, and some fun new models are halfway through being worked up...


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What material has been started on for NS:S? Textures, maps, code?

We've got two player models in varying stages of competition, two sets of textures ported, and our mappers have not been idle, though there is not yet an organized drive in that area. We'll start serious codework once v3.1 is out of the way.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: TheAdj on October 11, 2005, 02:34:26 AM
First, to those of you who think "vets" have all the input on the game, you are full of horse manure.  Competitive players make up a small portion of the PT team, and our voices are just a few of the many trying to have input on the game.  Some do influence certain areas of the game, I spent many hours with puzl working on lerk flight mechanics for example, however our voices are still just mixed into the cacophony of the others.  

Next, to those of you talking crap about UWE:  How many of you run a business?  How many of you have been managers and had to do something completely new that you knew little about?  It takes experience to do these things, and experience comes from time doing something plus learning from mistakes made while doing it.  I'm sure some of you are fed up with it, and if you are you probably don't belong in a game community being created by amateur-trying to turn pro-game developers.  I'll personally pick up NS again once I'm back from Asscrackistan and continue PTing it just like I did before because I enjoy the game, I see it's potential for expansion, and who knows, I might make a part time job out of PTing later games from UWE because I stuck with it.  

If you're willing to hang with it, do so, otherwise hop off the bandwagon so everyone else doesn't have to hear it.  While everyone is entitled to their opinion, no one wants to hear whiners, they drag everyone else down.  I understand this is a fairly civil open discussion, and while I also don't side with the "it's free so don't complain" people, bitching will not fix the problem.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: SwiftSpear on October 11, 2005, 04:00:56 AM
How much longer are you out adj?  I thought I remembered the date in your sig being some time soon...
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: Reasa on October 11, 2005, 05:34:13 PM
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Next, to those of you talking crap about UWE:  How many of you run a business?  How many of you have been managers and had to do something completely new that you knew little about?  It takes experience to do these things, and experience comes from time doing something plus learning from mistakes made while doing it.  I'm sure some of you are fed up with it, and if you are you probably don't belong in a game community being created by amateur-trying to turn pro-game developers.  I'll personally pick up NS again once I'm back from Asscrackistan and continue PTing it just like I did before because I enjoy the game, I see it's potential for expansion, and who knows, I might make a part time job out of PTing later games from UWE because I stuck with it. 

If you're willing to hang with it, do so, otherwise hop off the bandwagon so everyone else doesn't have to hear it.  While everyone is entitled to their opinion, no one wants to hear whiners, they drag everyone else down.  I understand this is a fairly civil open discussion, and while I also don't side with the "it's free so don't complain" people, bitching will not fix the problem.
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Its precisely because I so much enjoyed this game and its unique community that I am so disappointed with what has been happening as of late.

Certainly bitching doesn’t accomplish much, but nether does flushing away a large part of your fan base because you can't take the time to make a simple update every few days.

Lets face it Capitalism is a rather unforgiving system, you ether have what it takes to run a business or you don't. Does UWE seem like the kind of business you would want to invest a large amount of money in? Their like that kid in high-school who was incredibly talented and creative, but lacked common sense and any type of work ethic. What happens to that kid once he/she leaves high-school and enters the real world?

Someone looking to invest $20,000 isn't going to say "OMG lookzs whatz you guyzz did with teh HL1 engine OMG!!!!1" They are going to notice the poor management, the consistently missed self-set deadlines, and the general decline of a highly marketable commodity.

I don't want to hear any whining ether, but if we all just keep our mouths shut and join the ever lessening rank and file, nothing is going to change. There isn't anything wrong with constructive criticism.

If they ever manage to get there act together I’ll gladly hop right back into what’s left of the community. I just hope that time comes soon enough.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: Lightning Blue on October 11, 2005, 06:44:35 PM
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Someone looking to invest $20,000 isn't going to say "OMG lookzs whatz you guyzz did with teh HL1 engine OMG!!!!1" They are going to notice the poor management, the consistently missed self-set deadlines, and the general decline of a highly marketable commodity.

I don't want to hear any whining ether, but if we all just keep our mouths shut and join the ever lessening rank and file, nothing is going to change. There isn't anything wrong with constructive criticism.

If they ever manage to get there act together I’ll gladly hop right back into what’s left of the community. I just hope that time comes soon enough.
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Quoted.
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: tankefugl (in a tent) on October 11, 2005, 07:22:20 PM
But who are you talking to, if this is constructive criticism? I sure ain't a part of UWE, and I doublt Flayra visits this forum often.

There are some things I agree with in this thread, and some things that are very far off from the reality. I'm not going to attempt to defend it, as it serves no real purpose.

I will instead attempt to shed some light on what the reality UWE and the NS Team has to live with.

TheAdj is very correct when he speaks of the issues of starting your own thing. I've been there myself, and I know it's demanding and takes a lot of work seemingly for nothing.

The main issue with UWE is that it has to make money to live. And that's totally legit. If that means paying less attention to the current NS, so be it. They don't earn money on it, and any potential earnings from loyal customers is way too far ahead to consider.

Investors don't pay attention to missed deadlines, they pay attention to its ability to earn money, and maintaining a free game is not something an investor will benefit from. Investors are there for one thing only, to get more money back than they put in.

So what does UWE have to do? They have to take contract work, form their buisness plan, possibly make a prototype of the game (see Charlie's blog), get contacts and talents, and form something they can actually get investors to look at and get interested in.

Of course, all your gripes aren't with UWE, some are with the NS Team itself, which consist of volunteers (me including). So, what is our pay in this? What's our interest? To have fun -- if we can't have fun maintaining the game, we have nothing here to do. You might claim we have a responsibility to the community or the game, but we actually do not. We have a responsibility to ourselves to have fun with what we do.

However, UWE is tied to NS in such a way that we can't do anything unless UWE backs us up. For example the website, which is handled by UWE alone. In that way, we actually become indirectly tied to UWEs day-by-day financial situation. UWE also controls the direction NS takes, and have an absolute veto to any proposal or change.

I hope this was helpful.

(Btw, I know some will complain to me about it, but I don't run anything here and I am not going to attempt to defend the situation as it is not something I have decided. This is purely informational.)
Title: Could Unknown Worlds be any more unprofessional?
Post by: Necrosis on October 12, 2005, 06:05:31 PM
For the record, as much as I've found it hard to get playing NS, and as unhappy as I am with the site's outage, I still don't think its a game I can bring myself to abandon. Because really, for any of its flaws, there's the deep satisfaction of racebased classbased team objective play.

Which is something I can't really get to the same degree elsewhere, hahaha.