well if the alien team was smart they would keep you out of their hive so that you wouldn't be able to spawn camp. Really the question that should be asked is who allows the marines to spawn camp? I don't hear marines cry about skulks camping the ip, it's just a way of finishing the game. I mean how do you win this game, oh yeah you stop the other team from spawning.
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Since you're new to the server, i'll just assume you don't know about the "no spawncamping" rule.
Yes, i'm sure in competetive games it's your own fault for letting it happen, but here, it's bannable, so it SHOULDN'T be happening.
But Deci, the complaints about spawn camping weren't for the ones building in the hall and such, it was people like Force who were sat inside the hive room itself killing spawning skulks.
People need to understand what spawncamping is. Spawncamping is sitting in a hive, doing nothing but waxing every skulk that spawns in. Setting up a siege point in the hallway in Pressure isnt spawncamping. For the record, there are 3 exits to pressure. The direct route down the hall, and a vent to either side. A crafty skulk could charge down the middle and make it out clean. It's much easier to take the vents. However, I do have to agree with the fact that if aliens are DUMB enough to let rines start setting up a siege RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR ONLY HIVE, then they deserve whats coming to them.
But so long as the rines are doing their job and building like good boys and girls, its not spawncamping, no matter how much the alien team whines about it. Plain and simple.
Edit: seeing what esuna said about this Force guy, i'd have to say that's spawncamping. You cant sit in the hive and pop off every spawner while your team builds. You have to be back with the team, providing COVER. What force did constitutes spawncamping. If he had been near the TF and covering the builders, it wouldnt have been.
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That's where you get into some gray area. Who says that with his field of fire, he wasn't covering the builders?
IMO, if you being in the hive room serves a purpose other than just getting random kills and jamming their spawn Queue, all the more power to you. If you're there with your team, I should think that the lesser evil of capping spawners would overshadow the greater one of denying a marine team of a victory well-played because of an arbitrary rule, or perhaps even just prolonging the game.
People need to understand what spawncamping is. Spawncamping is sitting in a hive, doing nothing but waxing every skulk that spawns in. Setting up a siege point in the hallway in Pressure isnt spawncamping. For the record, there are 3 exits to pressure. The direct route down the hall, and a vent to either side. A crafty skulk could charge down the middle and make it out clean. It's much easier to take the vents. However, I do have to agree with the fact that if aliens are DUMB enough to let rines start setting up a siege RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR ONLY HIVE, then they deserve whats coming to them.
But so long as the rines are doing their job and building like good boys and girls, its not spawncamping, no matter how much the alien team whines about it. Plain and simple.
Edit: seeing what esuna said about this Force guy, i'd have to say that's spawncamping. You cant sit in the hive and pop off every spawner while your team builds. You have to be back with the team, providing COVER. What force did constitutes spawncamping. If he had been near the TF and covering the builders, it wouldnt have been.
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That's where you get into some gray area. Who says that with his field of fire, he wasn't covering the builders?
IMO, if you being in the hive room serves a purpose other than just getting random kills and jamming their spawn Queue, all the more power to you. If you're there with your team, I should think that the lesser evil of capping spawners would overshadow the greater one of denying a marine team of a victory well-played because of an arbitrary rule, or perhaps even just prolonging the game.
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I dont see it as gray area though. If youre looking at an overhead view of the PC Hive, you see that theres only one place that would provide the opportunity for a player to "cover the builders" building in the hallway and not have his back exposed to attack (allowing him to effectively spawncamp), and thats behind the Box on the floor in the middle of the hive. Now, the problem with being in this position is the fact that you cant see if skulks come at you from the left or right, thus making it ineffective for spawncamping. Being on top of the box would leave you open from the back of whichever direction you were facing, so, this isnt a valid spot either. The most plausible spots are either on top of the broken pipes, or to the left of the hive as you're looking in (in the nook where aliens frequently drop chambers). But neither of those spots provide cover. They simply allow someone to gun down skulks without being in a dangerous position. This means that someone in the hive is either exposed to a rear attack (which means he wouldnt be spawncamping for long if you had 1-2 decent skulks), or hes NOT covering his team.
There is no gray area about covering the team. Either you're providing close cover by gunning down skulks that are rushing toward the build location, or you're camping the hive and waxing skulks before they have a chance to move more than a foot.
And furthermore, "the greater one of denying a marine team of a victory well-played because of an arbitrary rule, or perhaps even just prolonging the game"? Yes, im confused. How is aliens fighting back against a last hive siege a bigger problem than spawncamping? How is it a problem at all? That statement makes no sense. Aliens have every right to fight back, just as marines do when they turtle in Marine Spawn. You cant expect a team to just say "oh, look theyre setting up a siege outside our last hive, lets just sit here and die so we dont prolong the game." Thats absurd. Thats like having rines who are just gonna stand in MS and let a team of skulks kill everything without firing a shot because they happened to be able to rush that far without dying.
And if you think spawncamping is such an arbitrary rule, i'd like to see your take on it when you're playing rines, down to nothing but IP's and an onos sits in MS, not destroying the IP's, but devouring or killing every rine that spawns for a nice long while. Then we'll see how arbitrary it is, or how fast you summon the powers of admindom to get rid of the rule-breaker.
Well if its a map problem, why not make a thread asking for it to be taken out of the cycle? I mean, since its causing so much of a problem.
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Hahahahahahaha. If that was the solution to all the problems we wouldn't have any maps to play in. I second that notion. Lets remove all maps from map cycle that have some sort of problem. I will start vote with ns_tanith, because in fusion hive it is too easy for guy to get on the diagonal barrier and spawn camp.
Well if its a map problem, why not make a thread asking for it to be taken out of the cycle? I mean, since its causing so much of a problem.
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Hahahahahahaha. If that was the solution to all the problems we wouldn't have any maps to play in. I second that notion. Lets remove all maps from map cycle that have some sort of problem. I will start vote with ns_tanith, because in fusion hive it is too easy for guy to get on the diagonal barrier and spawn camp.
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So? fusion is still seigeable without spawncamping... The issue here is weather or not X map works on LM, not weather or not X map has a minor bug that is annoying to play with.
The issue with spawncamping has always been twofold:
Llama spawncamping (as we like to call it), where a vastly superior team just keeps killing spawning players without ever touching the IP or hive. It's completely unnecessary prolonging of the game. Doesn't serve any purpose at all - it's just the winning team lording it over the losing, which is very poor sportsmanship. CryForMe has a very good example of llama spawncamping in the post above mine.
On the other hand is spawncamping in small numbers, which is more of an issue when marines spawncamp the aliens than the other way around. A single marine with good aim and resupply from the commander can spawncamp skulks indefinitely. The skulk is unlikely to spawn right next to the rine (particularly if the rine knows the spawn spots), and the rine has the range advantage. So the rine can spawncamp the aliens effectively, yet at the same time a single rine can't both spawncamp AND take down the hive at the same (or only VERY slowly). This leads to very boring games in which a single marine keeps the entire alien team in the spawn queue while the rest gets their act together to take down the hive, which can take several minutes and is a very agonizing process if you just have to watch it from the spawn queue.
That's why we have the rule against spawncamping, and that's how we enforce it. It would be pretty set in stone too if everybody would abide by the spirit of the law instead of the letter, but there are always some that try to bend the rules, so we have to interpret them accordingly. Altruism is not dead - it never really lived at all. We're not flawless, and it'd be unfair to demand that of us, and mistakes have been made in the past and will be made in the future, but we're doing our best here, we really are.
And finally, spawncamping for a clear, realistic objective has always been allowed. Spawncamping is a necessary part of taking down a hive or IP (unless nobody is spawning from it), that's just how it is. So spawncamping is fine as long as the spawning device is going down in a timely fashion.
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Ok, we've strayed from the original post of Pressure hive to this other Veil story which although it's similar, are two totally different circumstances. The game on pressure was not as simple as "they could've shot the hive and taken it down before 2 skulks spawned". That was more of a "had they not spawn camped, we'd have probably wiped out their 'siege attempt'." I had enough res to go Lerk at least, might have changed the tide of the game who knows. The point is, spawncamping gave them the advantage they needed to win that game.
Regardless of that, ICECREAM could've said he was spawncamping for a realistic objective, in fact he was. Since when is killing enemy units to minimize the oppositions strength and gaining res for your team not an objective? Based on your post lolfighter, and I assume you're speaking on behalf of all admins, I'm under the impression that everything he did was legal (as lame as it seemed at the time).
I'm trying not to seem like an stuborn jackass here and that's hard. Getting clarification on these issues requires that I pretty much have to pester an admin for each questionable situation that arises. I'm sure this isn't the last time it will come up either. And all that spirit and letter crap aside, there are people (like myself) who want/need to know that fine line between legal and illegal. Not because we want to walk that line and test it from time to time (although that happens with any rule), but because arbitrary rules like these can hinder a competent players performance. For example, the only reason I said that ICECREAM's action was lame was because of my understanding of the server rules at that time. Now that you've cleared up those misconceptions, I'm quite fine with it and relieved to know what I can do in a situation like that. Nothing is worse than gray area in the heat of the moment, especially when it could mean being banned from the server.
Well if its a map problem, why not make a thread asking for it to be taken out of the cycle? I mean, since its causing so much of a problem.
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Or even better, I'd assume since you guys are having such an issue with it, others are as well.. How about a "please fix this portion of the map" thread on ns.com that way it gets fixed , the mapper gets some much needed feedback and you don't have to remove the map at all :)