Overly Chatty Penguins

The Ready Room => General => Topic started by: Lightning Blue on April 04, 2005, 03:14:27 PM

Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Lightning Blue on April 04, 2005, 03:14:27 PM
From March 15th until today.

Click here! (http://www.lunixmonster.org/mvastats.htm)

Discuss?
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Fewlio on April 04, 2005, 03:19:02 PM
This looks good to me, because it's not nearly as close to the 1.x alien rapeage :D. Aliens should do better in a "pub environment" due to the different skills of commanders and ability of marines to work as a team. The hera statistics are disappointing though.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: LowCrawler on April 04, 2005, 03:19:03 PM
aliens>marines
















seriously though this is alot worse than i thought it was... holy crap. Hopefully 3.02 will help
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Mr.Bill on April 04, 2005, 03:19:23 PM
we still need a average player count damn it!
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: GrayDuck on April 04, 2005, 03:21:48 PM
Maybe clear out the stats and see what this new update does.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: pardzh on April 04, 2005, 03:22:10 PM
Hera and Veil both surprised me. Only two maps I can ever seem to comm to a win. :blink:
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Niteowl on April 04, 2005, 03:32:18 PM
More Number Crunching for you viewing pleasure!
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: AzubahF on April 04, 2005, 03:33:19 PM
pretty sad if you ask me
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: fatty on April 04, 2005, 03:50:59 PM
there is clearly an inverse relationship between Fatty World of Warcraft Playing Time and Number of Marine Wins On Lunixmonster.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Niteowl on April 04, 2005, 04:03:18 PM
MORE PICTARS!
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: tankefugl (in a tent) on April 04, 2005, 04:12:44 PM
It'd be more interesting to view alien wins as a function of time since release.

It'll also be interesting to see the alien winratio after 3.02.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Necrosis on April 04, 2005, 04:41:43 PM
According to the pretty chart, percentages stack for aliens pretty uniformly.


Everything would need to be wiped to take into account 3.02, and also take into account the growing popularity of the Elec strat. Further still, I suggest restricting the sample to games when there's 60% or more reg players, in order to rule out poor play.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: 2_of_8 on April 04, 2005, 05:06:02 PM
Quote
Further still, I suggest restricting the sample to games when there's 60% or more reg players, in order to rule out poor play.
[snapback]45378[/snapback]

I like that.
Bad aliens vs bad marines = alien win, probably.
Good aliens vs good marines = that's what the game is about.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Isamil on April 04, 2005, 05:29:50 PM
Keep in mind the results aren't very valid, you need to get rid of games 5 vs 5 or below.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: duherman on April 04, 2005, 05:36:51 PM
5 vs 5 = aliens win
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: 2_of_8 on April 04, 2005, 05:49:17 PM
Quote
5 vs 5 = aliens win
[snapback]45398[/snapback]

As with 6vs6, quite likely. They say it's balanced for 6vs6 - yeah, that's when Marines have aimbot-level aim.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: SlickWill on April 04, 2005, 05:55:22 PM
Honestly didn't think it was that bad.  Makes me not feel so bad for my comming win/loss percentage.  It is certainly better than that average.  Sure, aliens are supposed to win, but that is a bit much.  35/65 or 40/60 is a healthy alien domination, not 13/87.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: 2_of_8 on April 04, 2005, 05:56:47 PM
If a comm can win on hera, then it's a good comm :)
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Manta on April 04, 2005, 06:02:48 PM
XD

Look at the ayumi stats. I mean, I know ayumi sucks, but jeez.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: LowCrawler on April 04, 2005, 06:31:48 PM
Quote
Honestly didn't think it was that bad.  Makes me not feel so bad for my comming win/loss percentage.  It is certainly better than that average.  Sure, aliens are supposed to win, but that is a bit much.  35/65 or 40/60 is a healthy alien domination, not 13/87.
[snapback]45408[/snapback]


should be more like 13/37 imo.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: rad4Christ on April 04, 2005, 07:35:15 PM
Well, less blaming you grunts, and more unbalanced gg....
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: 2_of_8 on April 04, 2005, 07:55:07 PM
Quote
Well, less blaming you grunts, and more unbalanced gg....
[snapback]45434[/snapback]

Who knows? Maybe the grunts always suck :D
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Mac on April 04, 2005, 08:03:56 PM
It usually seems for me that I'm on the team that loses. :) I don't think it has anything to do with me sucking at the game. :rolleyes:
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Goldy on April 04, 2005, 08:57:21 PM
It seems that teamkill favors aliens.. since marines shoot eachother more than aliens bite eachother, and aliens can attack their own hive to movement to it. Perhaps you ought to find or create a mod that doesn't let aliens attack their hive?

Then again aliens do seem to work as a team way more on this server than any other I have played on.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Diablus on April 04, 2005, 09:04:09 PM
ns_hera Marines:10 Aliens: 86... jesus
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: 2_of_8 on April 04, 2005, 09:04:50 PM
Quote
Perhaps you ought to find or create a mod that doesn't let aliens attack their hive?
[snapback]45446[/snapback]

Wow, that would severily underpower the aliens. MCing to hives, especially unbuilt, is one of the most valuable strategies used when Aliens go MC first, or second. Without this, the aliens would have to run between the hives, often taking ~30 seconds... The game isn't that unbalanced; I'd say that a few simple changes can fix it.
Well, for now at least. I'm not talking about broken hitboxes or other major problems here.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Eggman on April 04, 2005, 10:40:37 PM
Hmm... I don't know about that 2/8... the aliens are still plenty good without FF on to attack hives... you just have to scout and keep people near the building hives... that seems pretty normal to me.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Absinthe on April 05, 2005, 12:05:22 AM
The "new" hera is rather ridiculous though, noone should be surprised. You have to actually be INSIDE the hive to seige the damn thing for all 3 pretty much. In a pub, you need seige because people have a hard time shooting aliens / hive in an organized fashion.. so any map where they make that hard, it basically becomes hopeless for the comm.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: SwiftSpear on April 05, 2005, 05:07:05 AM
Quote
The "new" hera is rather ridiculous though, noone should be surprised. You have to actually be INSIDE the hive to seige the damn thing for all 3 pretty much. In a pub, you need seige because people have a hard time shooting aliens / hive in an organized fashion.. so any map where they make that hard, it basically becomes hopeless for the comm.
[snapback]45473[/snapback]
Seige from processing FTW!

Are we all ready to suck it up and realise that 3.0f isn't balanced yet?  This represents a fairly high level skill pub game, and our W/L is still quite stacked for aliens.  At the delta clan play level the alien win percentage was ~80%, and from what I here, low skill pubs tend to be stacked for aliens.  Teamwork is all fine and dandy, but a team shouldn't be dependent on teamwork to give them the slightest CHANCE at a win when the other team can counter them with teamwork just as effecively, and will most likely win the game anyways even if most of them use little or no teamwork.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Leaderz0rz on April 05, 2005, 05:51:35 AM
even if the stats arn't EXACT it still shows a very low marine win percent. Obviously somthing need to be done to boost the marines or nerf the aliens, everyone hopes for a 50/50 but thats not plausable. so if marine wins>alien wins on specfic maps and aliens>marine wins on specfic maps in a small percent, then its about as balanced as you can get it.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Doobie Dan on April 05, 2005, 06:08:14 AM
I'm noticing another disturbing trend...

Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: devicenull on April 05, 2005, 07:27:01 AM
Quote
we still need a average player count damn it!
[snapback]45363[/snapback]


I tried to keep the script that generates those at a bare minimum, because, as it is it takes a minute or two to run.. adding more processing might make php time it out.. even though I told php not to time it out, it still wants to do it.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: duherman on April 05, 2005, 07:56:36 AM
relocate to hera ms node ftw!
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Niteowl on April 05, 2005, 08:18:42 AM
Quote
I'm noticing another disturbing trend...
[snapback]45495[/snapback]
<3  <3



I was surprised to see that tanith is one of the WORST maps for rines to squeak out a win. Hera, i'm not surprised, tons of nasty ambush spots, that whole sieging thing, and LOTS and LOTS of vertical variation (vertical variation means rines have shoot more up and down==more rines become skulk scat).

In general, the only games where I've won in the cc has, IIRC, been somewhat stacked in rines favour, with rines not making ANY mistakes,and working in laser precision. AND with aliens making a few key errors.

I think a balanced NS game will actually see a bit more alien wins than rine wins. Since the number of competent comms out there is usually quite low. But certainly not 80%.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Mr.Bill on April 05, 2005, 08:58:31 AM
We also arnt taking into consideration how many games where you dont have a comm, or you do but its like 10 min in. A good team is hard to come by, a good comm right off the bat can be worst depending on the time of day
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: lolfighter on April 05, 2005, 08:59:36 AM
Quote
Wow, that would severily underpower the aliens. MCing to hives, especially unbuilt, is one of the most valuable strategies used when Aliens go MC first, or second. Without this, the aliens would have to run between the hives, often taking ~30 seconds... The game isn't that unbalanced; I'd say that a few simple changes can fix it.
Well, for now at least. I'm not talking about broken hitboxes or other major problems here.
[snapback]45449[/snapback]
Not at all. Most servers don't have friendly fire turned on at all. Friendly fire removes the reliance on marines to shoot the hive while it's building to MC to it (thus making the MC premium for the first chamber). Also, aliens don't tend to bite each other a lot on accident, while marines are almost guaranteed to put a few bullets into their teammates during a heated firefight, especially at close range.
Now, we may all love friendly fire, but the game was balanced without it (except for match play, but that's another matter entirely). If you ask me, we are in no position to judge the balance of the current version as long as friendly fire is on. Friendly fire is alien biased.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Doobie Dan on April 05, 2005, 10:21:02 AM
Friendly fire used to be one of the few things that dropped marine overpoweredness.  Now that we have the opposite situation in a big way, it might not be a bad idea to temporarily disable it.

You know, if you removed FF-MCing to hives, it would probably make every chamber equally powerful as a starting chamber in this version.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Lightning Blue on April 05, 2005, 10:56:40 AM
Quote
According to the pretty chart, percentages stack for aliens pretty uniformly.


Everything would need to be wiped to take into account 3.02, and also take into account the growing popularity of the Elec strat. Further still, I suggest restricting the sample to games when there's 60% or more reg players, in order to rule out poor play.
[snapback]45378[/snapback]




This script simply parses log files for the victory line, and that's it. Anything more complicated will likely kill the server.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: ebnar on April 05, 2005, 11:49:18 AM
http://www.brywright.co.uk/ns/stats/classi...f0475dc0c7c0965 (http://www.brywright.co.uk/ns/stats/classic/maplist.php?ps_sess_id=805c5442726fa3adff0475dc0c7c0965)
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: 2_of_8 on April 05, 2005, 12:27:47 PM
Quote
http://www.brywright.co.uk/ns/stats/classi...f0475dc0c7c0965 (http://www.brywright.co.uk/ns/stats/classic/maplist.php?ps_sess_id=805c5442726fa3adff0475dc0c7c0965)
[snapback]45550[/snapback]

Uhh? Parsed error. Are you trying to show what would happen when the server would use more analysis on its logs? :D
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Diablus on April 05, 2005, 01:04:30 PM
Quote
even if the stats arn't EXACT it still shows a very low marine win percent. Obviously somthing need to be done to boost the marines or nerf the aliens, everyone hopes for a 50/50 but thats not plausable. so if marine wins>alien wins on specfic maps and aliens>marine wins on specfic maps in a small percent, then its about as balanced as you can get it.
[snapback]45493[/snapback]


nerfing aliens would only cause an unbalance, you need to boost Marines.

whenever a dev team nerfs a team / weapon from gameplay instead of boosting one side to its level only causes a bigger unbalance to one side.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: JHunz on April 05, 2005, 01:55:20 PM
Keep in mind that tanith is our mapcycle's starting map, so a good number of those alien wins probably start as server crashes where only half the people come back.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Necrosis on April 05, 2005, 07:00:48 PM
Yeah detailed analysis would not only kill the server but also cause cranial explosions for whoever was doing the analysing.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: fatty on April 05, 2005, 11:33:20 PM
hmm ebnar's linked site also shows their ban list. that's not a bad idea.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: SgtFury on April 06, 2005, 02:10:47 AM
Fatty, Brys has always shown their ban list, I think they are proud of it :)


Should be interesting to see if version 3.0.2 alters the stats at all?
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: SuicidaL MonkeY on April 07, 2005, 01:04:45 AM
Thats it....Marines need a flamethrower.....
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: SwiftSpear on April 07, 2005, 03:42:23 AM
I'm too lazy to check... What is the playerslot size at brys?
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: ebnar on April 07, 2005, 01:07:56 PM
The serversize is 16. Note that marines win nearly as often as aliens do.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Mr.Ben on April 07, 2005, 01:38:26 PM
I don't think i've seen marines win once whilst i've been on LM and that's simply down to the lack of good commanders. I don't think i've ever got an unrequested medpack.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Necrosis on April 07, 2005, 02:32:54 PM
Actually in most games marines are losing, and don't have the res for meds as they're too busy saving for something else.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Mr.Ben on April 07, 2005, 02:41:54 PM
Meds pay for themselves. You med, people kill, you get rfk, you get map control, you pressure alien rts, you relieve pressure from your own rts, you put aliens on the back foot, you win. Yesterday the rfk i generated alone was enough for a AA and proto lab, there is no reason to never med (k thats a lie, there are plenty of scenarios to not med in, comms just don't med in ANY scenarios without a request though and that = GG).
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: 2_of_8 on April 07, 2005, 03:12:07 PM
Can we get some updated stats since 3.02? That'd be very nice.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: devicenull on April 07, 2005, 03:29:25 PM
Added a couple things... Average Marine and Alien player counts.. which were in the code, but somehow didn't get displayed..
and I cleaned up a lot of it, got rid of something which possibly doubled the time it took, and added this nice line:
Parsed 3259 logs (235.14 MB) in 1.56 minutes

:)

Whoever sets it up, grab the $logdir = line from the other one and replace the one in this one with it.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Necrosis on April 07, 2005, 08:01:40 PM

Problem is that your average non-reg team is going to be sucking up more meds than res. Second, your average non-reg team doesn't understand waypoints, orders, wolfpacking, or pressuring.

Mind you, reg teams aren't perfect either, but at least with regs you can be pretty sure of some RFK rolling in.

If you happen to be the only decent player on a team of nubs, then don't expect to get meds. Effectively you're a rambo because you're the only man at a waypoint, or living long enough to need meds. Even if the comm meds you, you're going to die shortly afterward because you've no backup. So it makes more sense to do researching, or save res for getting you a bigger gun, as opposed to dropping meds for no real effect.

Thats just the way it goes, sadly.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: ebnar on April 08, 2005, 06:50:03 AM
It comes down to a lack of good commanders, yeah.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Dark on April 08, 2005, 07:02:05 AM
yes the numbers are shocking but that is just how 3.0 has panned out since going final.  the teamwork level on the aliens has gone up for sure though i've yet to see it on the marines
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Necrosis on April 08, 2005, 01:39:14 PM
Its not just teamwork. Aliens just haven't required a major strategy change.

Marines, on the other hand, have had to cope with the imminent death of the phase rush. In earlier versions marines could afford a bit of slacking, 1 or 2 bad players, that sort of thing. In the current version you cant slack. You can't pull off a PG rush because of the lunch portal phenomenon, and I'm sure free upgrades has certainly made more people take advantage of them.


Is the problem a lack of decent commanders? I've seen people comm very well up until the point where they've tried to take a hive by PG. It fails, they lame up in base, and it becomes a long endgame of aliens vs 3/3 marines. Games like that make me hesitant to put all the blame on bad comms.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Mr.Ben on April 09, 2005, 03:39:32 AM
Being able to tech to weapons 3 doesn't make you a good commander.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: SwiftSpear on April 09, 2005, 08:53:32 AM
I have to agree with ebnar and ben here.  You get Rad or HD in the chair, or to a lesser extent Nooblet, newborn, or me, and the marine chance at a win goes from ~15% to ~50%.

Although I have to credit it a bit to the aliens refusal to adapt to our styles in any way shape or form.  I still elec rush for half my wins, and rad two hive lockdown's every game.  Both are very counterable, yet we somehow still get them to work much of the time.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Necrosis on April 09, 2005, 07:29:49 PM
Living long enough to get 3/3 means you've done something right at some point. I'm not talking a pure weapons rush btw, I'm talking about full ups, HA or JPs, all the trimming, and borking it at the final phase.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: SlickWill on April 09, 2005, 07:54:59 PM
The server lacks in good commanders.  There is a small group of competent comanders, but not really skilled commanders.  The skilled ones don't comm that often either.  I agree with ebnar.  More skilled comms = more rine wins.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Condizzle on April 10, 2005, 08:21:48 AM
I think I see the TRUE problem here!
(I am sorry for stealing your graph [size=8](not really)[/size] but I was too lazy to make my own)
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Niteowl on April 11, 2005, 11:12:33 AM
Quote
Being able to tech to weapons 3 doesn't make you a good commander.
[snapback]45881[/snapback]
Damnit!
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: SwiftSpear on April 11, 2005, 01:14:05 PM
Quote
I think I see the TRUE problem here!
(I am sorry for stealing your graph [size=8](not really)[/size] but I was too lazy to make my own)
[snapback]45937[/snapback]
Irony
My anti condizzle
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: RangerAlpha on April 20, 2005, 03:58:31 PM
I can command any server but this one.  This server is a ton harder to command, cuz there are aliens everywhere!
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: RangerAlpha on April 20, 2005, 04:05:51 PM
Oh, one of my final projects is on that data, i thought that would amuse you all :p
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Prof.Chaos on April 27, 2005, 07:29:31 PM
I hate to say it, because I love MC rushing a hive as much as the next person, but turning FF off for a brief time, as an experiment, might not be a bad idea.  A single skulk jumping into a group of rines can cause half of them to kill the other half which, while amusing for the skulk, makes it a bit difficult for the marines. It would be nice to see the overall W/L stats for a short time of no FF, see if it makes much of a difference.
Title: Current MvA Win/Loss stats
Post by: Diablus on April 27, 2005, 08:24:02 PM
Quote
A single skulk jumping into a group of rines can cause half of them to kill the other half which, while amusing for the skulk, makes it a bit difficult for the marines.
[snapback]47246[/snapback]


Yes especially now it seems hitboxes are harder to hit because they dont match up with the model and apparently lag behind them a tad. Thus causing Marines doing more damage to themselves then the skulk has XD