Overly Chatty Penguins

The Ready Room => General => Topic started by: Lightning Blue on March 12, 2005, 02:53:57 AM

Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: Lightning Blue on March 12, 2005, 02:53:57 AM: Really.

(http://yanai.blackmage.org/pooflepwn.jpg)
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: Vinegar Ninja on March 12, 2005, 03:39:24 AM: my hero.
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: lolfighter on March 12, 2005, 06:28:44 AM: His Alter Ego must be Captain Obvious, sayer of all things that should be known by everyone. :D

Nothing we haven't heard before, but he put it into words quite well. The cookie will have chocolate bits.
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: 2_of_8 on March 12, 2005, 08:23:37 AM: Very nicely said, good job Poofle.
*gives him a really nice chocolate chip with strawberry bits and honey cookie*
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: holy_devil on March 12, 2005, 10:00:48 AM: love that post ^_^ just royally owns so many people.

maybe now they'll shut up? :rolleyes: :help:
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: LowCrawler on March 12, 2005, 10:12:58 AM: THANK YOU.

Now im not the only one with a bad taste in his mouth from clanners...
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: Necrosis on March 12, 2005, 10:15:24 AM: Perhaps I should baek him cookie.
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: LowCrawler on March 12, 2005, 10:16:35 AM: /me is now building a wooden cookie.
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: Rath on March 12, 2005, 10:18:06 AM: That is very much true.
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: lolfighter on March 12, 2005, 10:22:57 AM: Quote
love that post ^_^ just royally owns so many people.

maybe now they'll shut up? :rolleyes: :help:
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You don't actually believe that. That's not a question, it's a statement.
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: Zero7 on March 12, 2005, 10:24:06 AM: w00t! my screenshot was noticed. Teehee. <3
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: Malevolent on March 12, 2005, 11:23:45 AM: That was stated quite nicely.
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: spinviper on March 13, 2005, 04:45:51 AM: Quote
That was stated quite nicely.
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Agreed.
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: Mr.Ben on March 13, 2005, 04:51:33 AM: Two sides to every story.
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: Necrosis on March 13, 2005, 07:43:27 AM: Four sides.

Their side, your side, the devs side, and the truth.
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: Mr.Ben on March 13, 2005, 07:56:39 AM: There is no truth in this battle of the opinions.
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: Dark on March 13, 2005, 08:30:36 AM: it won't make them shut up about it because most of the vets who then got pt status still don't get it. banning for skill is not what is happening and really never was
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: UKchaos on March 13, 2005, 09:20:11 AM: Hehe funny post. I also laughed at Grendel's closing line.

Quote
If I deleted all the posts that made snide jabs at servers or groups in this thread, I'd be staring at a blue page saying "This thread does not exist".

Gotta love the Drama :rolleyes:
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: Dark on March 13, 2005, 12:47:29 PM: the drama is why i don't post on the ns boards that much since it seems every other thread says this server/group sucks for one reason or another
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: Absinthe on March 13, 2005, 05:33:01 PM: On the money..

Coming from a mainly CS CAL/pug/pub background I really find this applies more to that game than this one.. but still you can tell when people are getting too cocky for their own good. Most of the pubs I play on aren't like this (Thank God), and people work together and I don't get irritated! :D
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: Necrosis on March 13, 2005, 05:52:19 PM: Every thread on UWE descends into this.

Its pro/anti scripting, clanners v pubbers, server v server, or any combination thereof.
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: Manta on March 13, 2005, 06:00:05 PM: I agree with this guy that clanners can be arrogant. However, this does not only apply to clanners. Anyone can be an egotistic idiot.

It's when they show their arrogance, when their fragile egos are hurt, that it becomes a problem. To quote one person who shall remain unnamed, "Wtf, you're bs. I'm pro and I know you, you used to ba newb."

EDIT: Upon re-reading the post, it appears that he's not referring to clanners specifically. Just people with big egos.
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: Dark on March 13, 2005, 07:13:22 PM: as true as that is most of the people with the huge egos are ultimately clanners who think their cal whatever experience makes them god of ns or such

yes i know that a lot of them are that good but having their ego hurt then to see them go off on some other tangent is just ridiculous
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: That Annoying Kid on March 15, 2005, 12:27:54 PM: I really want to find the thread that post was in.

It sums up the main argument against competitive players very nicely.
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: Malevolent on March 15, 2005, 01:51:25 PM: Search for the user Poofle (or whatever his name was), and view all his posts. He doesn't have that many so it'll be easy to spot.
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: CorvusX on March 15, 2005, 05:47:59 PM: I will be doing a report for English class on competitive gaming, and it's effects on the player/community as a whole. For that, I will need interviews as a source.

Any who wish to contribute to it, just pm me in IRC or on forums, or email me, even.

I do agree with Poofle, and he does deserve a cookie. :p
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: JohnTheGarbageman on March 16, 2005, 05:10:51 AM: Not to overly victimize competitive players - but this perception stems mostly from a sore losers mindset, usually trying to find and point out fault. If you play a very average game, nobody will bust out a magnifying glass and analyse all the things you say and do with a gigantic negative predisposition. However, dominate a few rounds - and you can be saying nothing at all, you'll be perceived as insufferably arrogant.

But polemic arguments like these and sweeping generalizations based on under-analysed perceptions are after all what keeps that healthy friction between communitys going, so who am I to complain about it?

The worst thing you could maybe say about every competitive player without being incorrect is that playing above an average skill-level would be impolite. But thats hard to change - not like playing Chess with your little brother, where you can just lose to make him feel better ;)
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: Necrosis on March 16, 2005, 10:19:05 AM: I've come across far too many hypocritical clans to have time for the scene anymore.

When I was back playing TIE Fighter, it interested me because it meant teamplay. When I started playing AvP and AvP2 online heavily, I just saw tards. When I finally dug out my copy of halflife and started trying TFC, Firearms, etc, it was just a vocal minority who claimed to know better than every other player.

Its not one large leap, its little steps... the next thing you know you're on two different continents.
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: Keyser59 on March 16, 2005, 01:56:11 PM: I'm pretty sure that thread existed for the clanners that got banned from servers without saying a word. Yeah, there the few who go on a server and light up the place with their trashtalking, but then there are those who don't

Believe me, you don't have to act like a smacktard to be banned.
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: Necrosis on March 16, 2005, 04:53:42 PM: If I was harassing a server by wiping the floor with all players, all the time, then to be honest I'd probably deserve a ban.

Those people have just as much right to a game as I do. Thats why when I last went to my old old "whenever LM is slotting me" server, I lasted long enough to top the scoreboard, then left. No challenge at all, and challenge is why I play online. I have a PS2 and a variety of old PC games for when I just want to spin my wheels mass murdering people.

EDIT -

Yes, I would ban for skill. When I was running tabletop games I tried to keep it fair for all concerned, noone likes an arrogant git coming in and thrashing people just to improve his perception of his genitalia.

I have had to say to people "these are kids, they don't understand the game as well, and you're just ruining it for them". By the same standard, I would ask someone not to come back to a server if they were seriously disrupting play.

We have good players on LM, and thankfully they're all mortal, or decent enough to tinker with other roles than "butt kicker". Asshats however just come on to pwn the noobs and get a good K:D. I call it griefing, I would kick them off the server if they didn't tone it down, and I'd be perfectly public about it.

If a person's only way to feel good is to bully others, they need to find another way to cope. Smashing up people smaller than you isnt smart and its not fun either.
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: Manta on March 16, 2005, 04:56:18 PM: You make a good point in that post, but it's debatable as to whether that is truly deserving of a ban. However, I agree that if you aren't being challenged at all, there's no point in staying in the game except to make it less enjoyable to others.
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: SwiftSpear on March 17, 2005, 01:37:01 AM: Well teppla and his .txt cronies have succeeded in getting banned from many servers for "skill" without ever saying a word. Athough they aren't technically clanners, and they do do other annoying things like comm spam and teamstack.
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: Necrosis on March 17, 2005, 12:01:30 PM: I don't think there's anything wrong with banning for skill if you're completely open about it.

Again, I speak from experience as I had to do it for a job. You have to keep the skilled players from griefing the new players, and you've to stop the new players from griefing the older ones.

Whats bad about being banned for skill anyway? It effectively says "you are good enough at the game to disrupt its enjoyment for others.". Sounds like a compliment.

Furthermore, I would only do it as a server owner/administrator. As a mere admin, you enforce the will of the owner. In essence then you should be saying "thank goodness you don't own a server".

At the end of the day you have to assess the needs of the regular players. If one guy keeps disrupting the game to the point of unplayability, then that person needs to be removed from the server. I have long been of the opinion that top tier players should be forming top tier servers so that they don't have to cope with crap marine teams, and so normal players don't have to cope with some asshat whose idea of fun is to singlehandedly destroy a game as fade.

Thankfully on LM our players are mortal enough that this is not a problem, and when there's enough regs on its impossible for any one player to imbalance the game. I am discussing hypotheticals. Banning for disruptive skill is completely legit. I would ban someone from disrupting a game for being too good, and also for being terrible.

As an addendum, I would ban as a last resort. When there's enough regs on, most servers can handle most skilled players by weight of number. So generally if it was all nubs, I'd kick the skill guy and tell him to come back later. If he persists in laming it with nubs, then he'd get banned for disruption. Hey, my server, my rules.

People should be actively measuring their own skill against the other players. If you're thrashing them all and not dying in return, then chances are you're being a llama. Most players will recognise this and use pub games for practising other classes/roles, tinkering with upgrades, or unwinding a little after a game.

There does however remain a small hard core of people who play clan standard game after game, regardless of opponent skill. If it disrupted regular play then its effectively disrupting other players enjoyment, and comes under llama behaviour.

I wouldn't play my tabletop games against a kid because I'm pretty good at what I do. I got banned from playing tabletop games using a certain race at my local store PURELY BECAUSE noone could beat me when I used that race. Ever. Even if they used that race against me. At first I thought it was unfair, and that I was being discriminated against... but when maturity kicked in I realised how unfair it was on the people I was thrashing. I was teaching them nothing, and they were only getting annoyed with me.

So I kept to playing skilled players, and whenever I was in the store I'd experiment with a new race or unit. I was happy, the store was happy, and the other players were happy.

Same thing for servers. If someone's being an asshat, you have to crack down on them. As long as you're open and honest about the reasons for it, there should be no stigma.
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: Malevolent on March 17, 2005, 01:59:52 PM: Quote
I don't think there's anything wrong with banning for skill if you're completely open about it.
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Think what you will, but it is basically a form of discrimination. In every other field of life, people try to be good at what they do, and they earn it. The same goes for online gaming. Civ is an excellent player, but I doubt you'd ban him since you know him. HD is an admin and he's good. Would you ban him too? Seriously think about it. If you don't play against good people, will you yourself get any better?
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: Necrosis on March 17, 2005, 04:55:59 PM: The difference here is that both players aren't the type to endlessly ream the other team just for the hell of it.

Your hypothetical wouldn't arise. You would need to imagine Civ/Eb/HD stacking aliums every game, going fade in the first minute in every game, and wiping every marine out within 2 minutes, in every game.

Thats not likely to happen. They're nice folk.

Playing against good people raises your game, but if your entire team gets slaughtered to a top tier fade, you've only learned that top tier fades are evil. Anyone can tell you that, you don't have to learn it for yourself "just to see".

Understand the difference between voluntarily playing someone above your league (done when tabletop gaming, you pick out the top dog and ask him for a game) and when a top tier player partycrashes your game for several hours, thrashing everyone while at the same time impossible to kill (tabletop gaming, the big dog decides to challenge you, then beats you senseless just for laughs while he unwinds).

Sometimes its just llama behaviour dressed up. Anyone with skill and maturity will be able to understand that their play is disrupting the game for other people. Its kind of hard to start a campaign against skill bans when the man with the banstick is open about it from the start.
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: SwiftSpear on March 17, 2005, 05:50:01 PM: I see what you are getting at necrosis, and I tend to agree with you. HD and Civ wouldn't really be at risk for bans because they don't use thier skill to lame up the game. Generally we have to MAKE them fade if they are playing on the server, and they never res whore unless they are asked specifically to do otherwize (something I know I am guilty of every once in a while).

If someone is using thier skills to abuse the other players on the server then I don't see how it is incredibly different from llamaing. Why is there ever any point in your player carrier where you have earned the right to be a jackass? being a jackass is bad weather you worked hard for a long time to be one or you just woke up one day jackassy.

If a player is going to be a llama they should be banned for being a llama, weather it was using incredible skills to ruin game after game or just doing something really annoying like TKing your teamates.
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: Malevolent on March 17, 2005, 05:59:16 PM: Quote
The difference here is that both players aren't the type to endlessly ream the other team just for the hell of it.

Your hypothetical wouldn't arise. You would need to imagine Civ/Eb/HD stacking aliums every game, going fade in the first minute in every game, and wiping every marine out within 2 minutes, in every game.

Thats not likely to happen. They're nice folk.

Playing against good people raises your game, but if your entire team gets slaughtered to a top tier fade, you've only learned that top tier fades are evil. Anyone can tell you that, you don't have to learn it for yourself "just to see".

Understand the difference between voluntarily playing someone above your league (done when tabletop gaming, you pick out the top dog and ask him for a game) and when a top tier player partycrashes your game for several hours, thrashing everyone while at the same time impossible to kill (tabletop gaming, the big dog decides to challenge you, then beats you senseless just for laughs while he unwinds).
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I have no problem playing agaisnt skilled players no matter how good they are. I might bitch about it in-game, but it isn't like I want them to leave. And if there are a couple of marines killing skulks endlessly...well that is what they are supposed to do. Figure out a way to get around them, and then when other skilled people come on it won't be a problem at all. And if there is even a crazily skilled person playing, they hardly ever come back again. If they do keep coming back, you'll probably start liking him/her and learn from him/her. You also don't see skilled players coming on the server and stacking because they have no idea who is even good.

If a fade is slaughtering a whole team endlessly, there is something wrong; your comm can't drop meds/shotguns or something. Civ was a crazy fade when he played more, and he went fade quite a bit. It was what he was good at, and who can blame him for being what he was good at? You have to just figure out ways to kill them. Some people noticed that Civ would use the ceiling to control his blink. He also happened to do it in a pattern. We put some mines up there and he died.

You might not think you have a choice of playing against skilled players in NS on LM, but you do. You can leave the game if it's too much, and you're not having fun. You should expect to see skilled people on LM. Everyone knows about it. We have a lot of people that used to play here more often that are in CAL now. A lot of our regs are good and could play competitively.
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: Necrosis on March 17, 2005, 08:50:03 PM: Yeah, but LM is a good server.

Imagine one where there's not so many regs, or the regs are all universally poor players. I can think of several such servers right off the bat.

These servers have difficulty coping with nubs like me, so you can imagine the effect of an arrogant nutball who wants to ream the server for laughs. Should they ALL quit the server because of this one guy? Or should an admin take him aside for a chat?

The big trouble with perceived skill bans is that they're written off as hackusations or admins/owners who don't like losing. I think it'd be refreshing to see a server say "well actually its because you're good to the point of being disruptive, so we're banning you until we get to better-than-average skill".

Kind of hard to flame back at that.
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: lolfighter on March 18, 2005, 02:46:38 AM: Actually I was thinking somewhere along those lines back in the day when civ was completely unbalancing the game. He DID go Fade every game, and that pretty much spelled doom for the marines.
I would NEVER have banned him for skill, that's just not how we run things in LM. But I was planning to take him aside for a chat and politely ask him to either mix it up a little with other roles or find more skilled servers to play on. But he came to that conclusion without me asking him to first.
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: Necrosis on March 18, 2005, 12:04:05 PM: Yes, most decent hearted folk tend to catch on fairly soon. However, you do get dedicated asshats.
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: Settler on March 21, 2005, 09:50:13 PM: remind me to drop a hive every now and then.

pretty accurate post tho. a lot in there is very true :)
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: CryForMe on March 27, 2005, 08:02:33 PM: ill give my two cents. a bunch of the folks who are regs on LM used to play on the On|E server back when it existed. most of these people know i'm the guy that was responsible for banning the whole .txt crew from the server. I had my reasons for doing it and will explain.
Most people who have seen the .txt guys play think that i might have banned for skill or hax. Wrong.
I banned them all for violating server rules and being general asshats on the server.
The main rules for the server were simple: No res whoring unless you had permission from your team to do so. If you're rines and the commander gives orders, try and follow them. No F4ing. No spawncamping for either side.
-teppla and the boys liked to come in and join up, then F4 to orchestrate a .txt teamstack. not allowed.
-any orders that the comm gave were ignored as they ramboed just to boost their scores, which they openly admitted to.
-on aliens they res whored for fade or onos regardless of what the team needed or was asking for.
-they seemed to LOVE spawncamping for 10-15 mins at a time instead of just ending the game.
-they didnt speak to anyone (except each other via teamspeak) during gameplay and when an admin broached them about violating the server rules, a beliggerant response was recieved.
Result=BANT.
Now i KNOW that those things would have earned a ban on LM, just as they did on our server. I wasnt gonna stand for blatantly breaking the rules and disrespecting the admins. I, for one, wont ban for skill, and wont ban for hax unless i get solid proof thats backed by several other people. As far as people like Civ and HD whoring for fade on a regular basis, I dont mind. Anyone who is a regular knows that its probably gonna happen, and most of the time, before HD goes fade, he asks if we'd rather have a hive dropped or need anything. Teamplay is a big issue in NS, especially since 3.0F came out. If you're doing something, benefit the team with it. Dont just play rambo because you think you can. That just makes people mad. Help the team.
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: SwiftSpear on March 28, 2005, 12:38:59 AM: Last time teppla played LM he lerked the majority of the game, and the one time I caught sentry steve on he dropped a bunch of chambers and acctually tryed to orchistrate an onos rush over voice comm.

I'm not delusional, I know the .txt guys are more then capable of complete asshatism, but they mostly keep that to co games these days... and really, without talking at all, there isn't THAT much damage you can do to a co game... I mean, I have been accused of hacking and scripting before on Co servers. It goes both ways.

Not that I think any less of you for banning them cryfor, but they can be pretty fun to play with sometimes on the other side of the fence.
Title: Give this guy a cookie.
Post by: CryForMe on March 28, 2005, 01:00:16 AM: i wouldnt doubt it, but from all that ive heard of them (ive talked to a bunch of other server owners and admins), the actions they display are pretty much the same as what i saw. i wouldnt hesitate to give them another chance, but it would be with wary eye that i did so.