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The Ready Room => General => Topic started by: SlickWill on March 07, 2005, 12:15:30 AM

Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: SlickWill on March 07, 2005, 12:15:30 AM
I have noticed that comming is VERY different.  Anybody have any techniques that seem to ahve repeated success?  As noted above, please don't post about an idea you have which may work or sounds technically fit, just actual working strategies.  <<<<<Need to work on my uber leet comming skills.   :D
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: Necrosis on March 07, 2005, 04:24:30 AM
PG rush and shotguns are as good as ever.

Aliens are very much going SC first now, so you really need sharp marines to spot ambushes. MT only does so much.

Out of the past dozen or more games on LM, its been marine wins with a brutal SG rush. Where aliens have won, its been all out insane aggression. Aliens are maxing out on upgrades since they're free, and another big BIG contributor is that when aliens switch classes, their upgrades all vanish. This means a cara-adren gorge can rather seamlessly turn into a regen celerity fade, or whatever. This indirectly increases alien survivability (no more "I better just rush and die then evolve to fade) and also means less "cool down" between waves of alien attacks.

Consider previous versions:

Skulk
Chambers dropped
Evolve skulk upgrades
Get enough res to fade
Suicide Run
SPAWN QUEUE
Evolve to Fade
Evolve fade ups

And now you can do this:

Skulk
Chambers dropped
Evolve upgrades
Get res to fade
Evolve fade
Evolve specific fade ups


No time in the spawn queue, so no 60 second break in the alien rush. You simply cannot afford to pace yourself anymore, and there's no letup in the alien attack. Also, in older versions

Get to alien hive
Siege all upgrade chambers and aliens in the hive
Walk into hive, do victory dance while aliens queue in spawn

Whereas now

Get to alien hive
Siege upgrade chambers only, leaving 1 spamhealing gorge on the hive constantly, and one healing every alien in the room
Sit at hive for 5 minutes while aliens drop more chambers in safer areas
Lose siege spot
Get splattered by aliens rushing base

Honestly, no siege damage means there is colossal resistance at all alien hives. Moreso on LM since MC rushing means aliens can be in the hive before you're even set up.

The counter to this that I have seen work is the two pronged phase rush. You need to hit several alien hives at once, just to split their forces enough to weaken the hive.

Cautious comms who tech up and hit one hive at a time (which iirc is your most commonly executed strat, or so I've seen) are going to suffer versus relentless alien aggression. Fight has got to be taken to them, and that means insane shotgun rushes. Ideally you're looking at half the team hitting one hive, half the team hitting another, and trying to focus on them both, or at least the more successful one. That's a hell of a headache for any comm.


So in a nutshell, you need marine aggression, and you need to bleed out the aliens by splitting their forces. Otherwise they'll camp in the hive and be everything but indestructible. Sieges are virtually worthless now in terms of KILLING a hive. They'll clear out the lame and the upgrades, but the hive will shrug it off as long as there's a gorge on it.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: lolfighter on March 07, 2005, 06:47:18 AM
But as Niteowl can attest to, two-pronged hive attacks work well against all but the very most vigilant alien team. Still.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: Niteowl on March 07, 2005, 08:54:59 AM
I didn't plan, and I usually don't plan for 2 prong attacks, LF, it was just some rine (sorry, can't remember) got a PG at vent, and cave was too hostile for the rines to survive, so we attacked vent.

In general, the game is waaay faster for the comm. I'm macroing and microing like there is no tommorrow. So the game is faster, everything is more frantic, you MUST keep your rines in groups (before it was just an option, but now with silence, cara whatever skulks, your rines must hunt in packs), and YOU MUST COUNTER WHATEVER UPGRADE the aliens are taking.

I've seen too many comms just go ahead and do whatever strat they have planned ahead of time. But like all RTSes, NS has truly became a game of counters. Scout, scout scout. Get positive confirmation either via ping on the hive to get the upgrade chamber or report from several marines which way they are going.

But in other ways, the game has not changed.
-cap
-get a phase network
-hunt alien rts
-counter alien tech
-hunt alien rts
-recap
-attack 2nd hive VERY VERY VERY quickly
-decide either to try and end it fast or climb up the tech tree
-keep hunting alien rts
-finish last hive.

Most games are running under 15 or 20 minutes. So game is decided around 5 minute mark, it seems.

If you are not using the hotkeys for comming, you better learn soon. It's become far too fast for anyone 'learning' or 'getting to terms with the interface'. With that in mind, there have been, what seems to be, far more epic games, due to very harsh back and forth and the ubar lethality of the 3.0 skulk. Ironically, turrets are needed to fend off skulks, you can't expect marines to fend off a rush of celerity skulks anymore.

So, there have been some major changes, but the macro of the game is the same, jsut faster.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: lolfighter on March 07, 2005, 09:43:18 AM
Oh. Not a good time to learn to comm then, is it?
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: Legionnaired on March 07, 2005, 09:50:29 AM
Before, the game had one critical moment around 5:00 that decided the game.

Now, it has a 'critical period' between when the second hive is dropped at 4:30 and when shortly after the hive goes up or is knocked down, and one side is taken out from attrittion at the 6:30-7:00 mark.

Before, balance was a slippery slope. There's still an element of that, but now it's more of a tightrope walk.

I've played 2 games of 3.0 that illustrate this purpose absolutely perfectly. I'll recall them here, and then summarize a proposed strategy.

The first game was on Veil, regs on both teams.

Build Order:

IP, Armory,  Obs, RT, MT, RT

I tried to get MT as fast as possible, to attempt to allow the marines free movement around the map. I started a two-pronged cap-rush on subsector and pipeline (hive cargo), the subsector one resulting in one dead RC (Alien Res Collector, for future reference.) and two RTs for the good guys. The Pipeline expansion took heavy casuties, but they managed to get C12 up, but it was taken out around when it paid for itself.

Immediately after phase tech went up, I dropped a phase at sub, and ordered all the marines to system waypointing. I sent two people into double to cap it (there was no building here.) and the rest of the team outside cargo. Armor 1 hit right about now, just as I build a PG around the Y-junction, and started setting up a siege point. 50 res in medpacks, 3 sieges later, the hive was down. Cap the node, recycle siege base, head to Dome. Marines moved to north of Pipeline, got a PG up, and dropped 2 HMGs, and 4 Sgs on the ground. Marines moved in, built 2 guns on the stairwell, and held off the lerks and cele-cloak skulks with HMGs. After most of the alien team was dead, marines moved into the hive room and engaged the hive. Hive down at 9:40, end game.

The next game I commed was on hera. Same build order, much resistance met at cargo, but Hera>Holo>N-coridor was open. Went to Arch, phase tech up.

Sent a few marines to pressure maintinance, taken out by aliens defending the building second hive. Marines got a phase in N-Corridor, welded into the cave, and pushed into the hive with shotguns. Stopped in the water by 2 fades, one of which refaded and was rekilled.

Beaconed. Marines march to processing, and take position in the upper room with a phase gate. Sieges against the north wall, hive down 1:00 after the second hive goes up. Cap the two nodes, secure the room, phase back and march to maint. Some screwballs, but 3 marines get there and get a PG up at the west end of Maint. Marines go north, and get a second PG up at the SW end of Vent. Siege base goes up under heavy Onos onslaught, until 'Vermillion' Accidently TKs 3 people with his HMG, then dies shortly after. Siege base went down before the beacon went off. We lost shortly after.

___________END GAME SUMMARY___________

Note that in both games, MT was used to let marines move freely around the map. Marine Mobility is key in 3.0, and if I was a tech-comm, I'd try and go for jetpacks as soon as I could. Otherwise, keep a rapid expansion, requiring the entire alien team to be at a certain place every minute or face destruction. Both games had this element:

First Game:
-Subsector Expansion
-Pipeline Feint
-Cargo Siege
-Pipeline Siege
-Pipeline Shotgunned

Second Game:
-Archiving Expansion
-Processing Feint
-N-Corridor rush
-Datacore attack
-Processing Expansion
-Datacore Siege
-Vent Siege

The fact is, that even the most co-ordinated team will require a good 30 second to get anywhere together, and even then, a whole alien team vs. a whole marine team is an even match. Which means, that whatever you do, you have 30 second to make it count.

Attack 2 places at once with phase gates, or powerbuild one base as fast as possible. Whichever one faces the most resistance, keep only enough guys there to hold off the aliens for :45-1:00, until the other attack can gain force. Then beacon, recycle the phase at the feint, and crush them at the other. Have 1 guy go back to the feint-spot for a quick 1-2 punch.

The key is aggression. If you have marines at the enemy hive, the free upgrades they have, they're never going to use, and vanilla skulks are like candy to marines. Keep the pressure on them, and keep their strengths marginalized. Get HMGs as fast as possible to keep lifeforms at arms length, and have MT to allow marines to move without having to check every corner.

Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: CryForMe on March 07, 2005, 10:26:06 AM
One of the best strats ive seen since 3.0 came out, and has worked EVERY time is fairly basic. Res intensive, but basic. To begin with, have two people go cap RTs, no more. Armory, obs, IP, TF and arms in base. Use the TF to start electrifying nodes as soon as available res comes in, hold off on immediate upgrades. Besides the two people capping nodes (one builds, other covers), everyone else should immediately start scouting hives. When you come on an empty one, build the RT first, then the comm should IMMEDIATELY fortify it - TF electrified, PG and turrets. If done correctly, you can have one hive locked down within the first two minutes and the second within the first 5 if you have a decent shooting marine team. The key to this strategy is that once the hive is fortified, skulks and gorges and lerks for the most part are completely useless in getting into a hive. The aliens must then wait for fades and onos. In all the games ive played, aliens seem to be more intent on dropping at least one chamber or one rt then saving for fade, so you'll generally have a few mins before you start seeing the big nasties. After the hives are locked up, everyone moves as one group and starts capping nodes and taking down alien RTs. Large groups always stand better chances obviously, since its hard for the lone roaming skulk or lerk to escape the hail of fire coming from 5-6 people. Once this is done, a steady res flow should be coming in to allow for quick upgrades. The kicker to the aliens now is that unless they have a team full of onoses and fades, once you have HA/HMG or JP/SG combos, marines are virtually unstoppable. Take down the only hive they have and youre golden.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: holy_devil on March 07, 2005, 11:36:03 AM
i'm still rusty on comming, but im trying to get back into it. as it stands, it seems people just aren't putting effort in on marines for some reason. in 3.0 its really REQUIRED that marines use teamwork and listen to their comm, but people play as if it isn't. rambos == OWNED in this version, and once people get a handle of that, marines will start destroying again.

build order;

ip
armory
arms lab
obs


upgrades;
armor1
mt(if mcs, no point otherwise this early)
phase after mt if you get it
weapons1
armor2
armor3
weapons2
weapons3

throw mt in there when you have spare res, or second hive+mc shows up


basically the idea as marines is to be as offensive as possible. DO NOT LET THEM HAVE MORE THAN TWO RTS AT ANY POINT IN TIME. EVER. res system works too fast to let them hold anything. siege is basically complete crap now in the sense of roflowning a hive, shotguns do it faster than siege and are cheaper. only reason to siege now is if they have 2+ fades, an onos, or many ocs in the hive.

no, upgraded armory isn't needed at all. armor >>>> fades. medspam a marine with a shotgun and armor3, he can solo a fade like its a joke, living through well around 6 non-focus hits, with like 3-4 meds.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: Legionnaired on March 07, 2005, 11:37:01 AM
Quote
One of the best strats ive seen since 3.0 came out, and has worked EVERY time is fairly basic. Res intensive, but basic. To begin with, have two people go cap RTs, no more. Armory, obs, IP, TF and arms in base. Use the TF to start electrifying nodes as soon as available res comes in, hold off on immediate upgrades. Besides the two people capping nodes (one builds, other covers), everyone else should immediately start scouting hives. When you come on an empty one, build the RT first, then the comm should IMMEDIATELY fortify it - TF electrified, PG and turrets. If done correctly, you can have one hive locked down within the first two minutes and the second within the first 5 if you have a decent shooting marine team. The key to this strategy is that once the hive is fortified, skulks and gorges and lerks for the most part are completely useless in getting into a hive. The aliens must then wait for fades and onos. In all the games ive played, aliens seem to be more intent on dropping at least one chamber or one rt then saving for fade, so you'll generally have a few mins before you start seeing the big nasties. After the hives are locked up, everyone moves as one group and starts capping nodes and taking down alien RTs. Large groups always stand better chances obviously, since its hard for the lone roaming skulk or lerk to escape the hail of fire coming from 5-6 people. Once this is done, a steady res flow should be coming in to allow for quick upgrades. The kicker to the aliens now is that unless they have a team full of onoses and fades, once you have HA/HMG or JP/SG combos, marines are virtually unstoppable. Take down the only hive they have and youre golden.
[snapback]42670[/snapback]

I'll try this out for giggles, but I doubt it'll be effective whatsoever. You have 4 minutes to get both hives before the second goes up, and I doubt your going to get the 60 (pg) + 30 (nodes) + 60 (elec) + 60 (turrets) = 210 res needed to do that. Remember, a node gives 10 res a minute (1/6 seconds.) so you'd need 20 node/minutes to do anything effective. I suppose if you get 4 extra nodes in the first 30 seconds you could do it, but you're still going to be upgradeless fighting celerity, focus, or cloaking skulks.

It's risky, but I'll try it when I get the chance.

The other thing I want to try is AA + Proto + JP, and then SG/JP the second hive down as it's going up...

That's 50 seconds for the JP and 180 seconds for the JP, whichs puts jetpacks at the 3:50 mark, and probably about 210 res for it too. If you can act quickly, you can probably rush jetpacks, quickly rape their nodes, then go for the second hive, killing lifeforms as you go. The problem is, that lerks are going to take you out if you don't have armor 1, as a few seconds in spores will bring you down to a single bite. Not to mention the fact that with level 0 weaps, you'll need catalysts to take the hive out before you get eated.

I still think that the best strategy is going to be a steady steamroller expansion, taking out the chokepoints and cutting off their nodes one by one.

Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: Mr.Bill on March 07, 2005, 12:34:37 PM
today we were playing and there were basicly 2 groups of marines going around getting res capping places ,I just called for mines and drops obs all over the place secretly. since they had SC, if it is SC I find having obs at very busy places are almost vital.

and no Lf, now is not the best time to learn to comm :) It is fun though once you know how, (and if your doing a real game) You can tell the teams are balanced when it becomes almost stalemate, then marines or aliens have to use a crazy tactic to cover that extra bit of ground to tip the scale. Funnest games ever. But damn their stressful for the comm. Yesterday on EON, I had bunker as pg position, we held it fairly easy (yay bunker) but they kept trying to put up the other hives, so every couple of mine a marine would need to reput up a pg, and shottie down or gl down the hive. 1 hive onos's are unkilliable almost with redempt. Biggest worry ever, kil 5 marines, redempt, we try to put up seiges again they all die to the same onos, All in all we took down 20 some hives, and killed 2 or 3 onos (they each redempt abut 8 times each) 1 hive onii btw.

Yeah, thats not really a strat... but it is a good story.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: Niteowl on March 07, 2005, 02:06:43 PM
All rumours of mr.bill winning in the cc are PURE FABRICATION! Anyone spreading such rumours will be tickled and spun around several times for dizziness!
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: Necrosis on March 07, 2005, 04:30:10 PM
Its not an easy time to learn, but it might be the BEST time to learn. If you can crack this build, you can crack anything thats ever thrown at you.


Where people are failing is their continuing belief in the power of the siege. The siege is dead, long live the medspam. A siege will clear a hive of upgrades, but not kill the hive itself nor the aliens inside. You need to get in there with shotguns and medspam and start killing the aliens while they have no place to hide. No upgrades in the hive means they heal slower and they don't have as much energy - making your job of killing them that much easier.

Comms who relied on siege rushes are going to suffer. Poor marine teams, who relied on sieges because they couldn't get past the aliens, are ALSO going to suffer.

Its time to raise your game and learn how to shoot properly, and how to do a real ninja phase.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: Niteowl on March 07, 2005, 05:01:15 PM
LF: in all serious, any time is a good time to comm. The roster of folks who will comm is always dwindling.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: Legionnaired on March 07, 2005, 08:30:29 PM
70 res for a siege base = 35 medpacks, or 16 meds and 12 catpacks. Mmmm, catpacks...

That's 2 meds a marine, and 1.5 catpacks a marine too. Ownination, I'll try this out now.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: 2_of_8 on March 07, 2005, 08:59:07 PM
I myself am thinking too, that sieges are outdated now. If they don't receive a buff soon, they will looked at just the way pheromones were looked at; there's a chance of it working, but there's a better way to do it.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: SwiftSpear on March 07, 2005, 09:25:33 PM
I personally like this one...  Jump in the chair, get ejected within 1 minute, all marines jump in pit of death.

*SwiftSpear glares angrily

 <_<
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: george on March 08, 2005, 12:56:21 AM
RES DENIAL!!!!!!
making sure aliens never get nodes.
Protecting second hive locations.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: Hesitation on March 08, 2005, 01:53:37 AM
Quote
I personally like this one...  Jump in the chair, get ejected within 1 minute, all marines jump in pit of death.

*SwiftSpear glares angrily

 <_<
[snapback]42722[/snapback]

Haha! I think I might have been on the alien team that game ^__^

90% of the strats I've seen involve early Motion Tracking, and then casual ninja-SG rushing of hives.

Damn that observatory! Damn it to HECK!
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: Mr.Ben on March 08, 2005, 02:07:42 AM
Tech: AA (first) A1, W1, PGs.
Strat: First thing you do is get AA going, once it's up you drop as many hmgs as you can, have your marines walk to the hive and demolish any skulks on the way and try and end it before they get fades.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: SwiftSpear on March 08, 2005, 04:47:56 AM
Quote
Tech: AA (first) A1, W1, PGs.
Strat: First thing you do is get AA going, once it's up you drop as many hmgs as you can, have your marines walk to the hive and demolish any skulks on the way and try and end it before they get fades.
[snapback]42734[/snapback]
I've been doing this every game since 3.0 came out.  After intense recearch I have determined that HMGs SUCK unless you have some damn good marines pulling the trigger.

Also motion tracking helps them pretty good if the aliens are dumb enough to early lerk rather then early fade.  And keep the bastages medded, they have HMGs!
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: Mr.Ben on March 08, 2005, 05:53:00 AM
HMGs are the absolute dogs bollocks. Drop 3 hmgs + welders and if they dont get to anywhere you want them too vs skulks then they just suck and wouldn't get anywhere with anything else. 125 bullet clip 6 bullets or so to kill one skulk...
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: SwiftSpear on March 08, 2005, 06:48:40 AM
Quote
HMGs are the absolute dogs bollocks. Drop 3 hmgs + welders and if they dont get to anywhere you want them too vs skulks then they just suck and wouldn't get anywhere with anything else. 125 bullet clip 6 bullets or so to kill one skulk...
[snapback]42741[/snapback]
is a 4 bullet kill at hive one... and 5 at hive 2, it doesn't go to 6 until the skulks get cara, but that is still a very fast kill.  I find worst case scenario you waste 25 HMG shots for a skulk kill.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: rad4Christ on March 08, 2005, 09:38:37 AM
I haven't been winning 90% of my comming as before, but it's more of a 60%. The main problem I have now is lazy marines, now responding or moving to WP's.

My build order is a little different, one game I got A1 almost 5 minutes into the game :/.


IP
Armory
OBS
RT
RT
MT

With this build order res nodes are highest priority, and not marines. Aliens. You HAVE to kill the alien resources to pay for the late AL and AA upgrades.

My other BUILD order is more similar to my B5

IP
Armory
RT
AL
RT
A1
AA

Same beginning build order, but I sacrifice quick W1 for AA. Both seem to work well.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: 2_of_8 on March 08, 2005, 10:27:21 AM
Do weapons upgrade actually make that much of a difference? I can't tell if I have lvl0 or lvl1 if I don't look at the HUD.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: Malevolent on March 08, 2005, 10:38:28 AM
Yes, they do. Especially with the HMG/LMG since they fire so fast. You will be able to take down higher alien lifeforms much easier.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: Niteowl on March 08, 2005, 11:16:42 AM
Quote
I haven't been winning 90% of my comming as before, but it's more of a 60%. The main problem I have now is lazy marines, now responding or moving to WP's.
[snapback]42762[/snapback]

Wow, you keep track of you W:L ratio!  :blink:
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: rad4Christ on March 08, 2005, 11:33:15 AM
IT's not like it's logged or anything, just in my head, a ratio to how many I win/lose.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: 2_of_8 on March 08, 2005, 02:05:16 PM
Quote
IT's not like it's logged or anything, just in my head, a ratio to how many I win/lose.
[snapback]42779[/snapback]

Mine's 100% win and 100% loss!
0 divided by 0, right? Or am I doing my math wrong here :D
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: lolfighter on March 08, 2005, 02:09:20 PM
I tried to divide by zero, but my calculator seized up. I'll try doing it on a slideruler next and see if the universe gets a bluescreen.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: CorvusX on March 08, 2005, 08:52:37 PM
Mines, and lots of them.  Just spam them everywhere... vents, everything.  Until hive2, at which point you know you screwed up because they somehow managed to get a hive.

Also, lame up choke points like mad.  It'll piss off aliens to no end, and keep you from losing (on occasion).

Btw, don't take anything from this post as serious, cuz i R nub comm lol!!1!!one!1!11!!
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: 2_of_8 on March 08, 2005, 09:14:46 PM
Quote
I tried to divide by zero, but my calculator seized up. I'll try doing it on a slideruler next and see if the universe gets a bluescreen.
[snapback]42796[/snapback]

I'm a genius (http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/faq.divideby0.html).
Therefore: Wins = undeterminate, losses = undeterminate!
:o
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: Mr.Bill on March 09, 2005, 02:36:45 PM
I hate it when you comm SOO much! Ill be running around randomly and BAM hit  a mine. not. funny.

whats worst is when your NOT comm, and get them to drop mines anyway :-D
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: SwiftSpear on March 10, 2005, 06:55:03 AM
Quote
I haven't been winning 90% of my comming as before, but it's more of a 60%.
[snapback]42762[/snapback]
Gah, you need to play more often then!  I haven't been in a game which I played from the start in (I joined one late once) where marines have won in about 4 days, and I play NS a distrubing amount of time per day.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: 2_of_8 on March 10, 2005, 09:43:08 AM
You know NS is unbalanced when rad doesn't win every game he comms...
Last night, I played 2 or 3 games with him comming. We made very good efforts, we had great players on our team (as well as the aliens, though) - but we got decimated at both phase rushes, same with our walking rush to another hive. Pretty much every game.
I seriously doubt now that a M:A ratio of 1:3 - 1:5 will get fixed simply by time and Marines getting better, in terms of skill. I believe now that it is the problem with the game itself, and the only way it'll be balanced is by the devs.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: Necrosis on March 10, 2005, 11:49:17 AM
Last night a team of LA HMG rines with at least 2/2 ups managed to hold off virtually an entire alien team of Onos.

Marines still have teeth.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: moofree on March 10, 2005, 01:04:42 PM
Quote
Marines still have teeth
No no no... aliens have teeth. Marines have guns.

But yeah, it's harder to play as marines now, but i don't think it's balanced toward aliens. Just gotta be smarter, faster, better than before.
The TSA has invested 6 million dollars per marine to upgrade your systems, men. Don't let them down!

I mean... real life... yes... real life
work work work
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: Necrosis on March 10, 2005, 04:25:55 PM
I'll tell you a funny story. Marines had nearly every node on the map, were doing well, and only lost because they tried a siege attack on a hive.




Another funny story, aliens only seem to lose games where they go SC first and act like retards, allowing the marines to get to at least one hive and/or electrify nodes. GG.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: Legionnaired on March 10, 2005, 04:56:34 PM
Quote
I'll tell you a funny story. Marines had nearly every node on the map, were doing well, and only lost because they tried a siege attack on a hive.




Another funny story, aliens only seem to lose games where they go SC first and act like retards, allowing the marines to get to at least one hive and/or electrify nodes. GG.
[snapback]42960[/snapback]

Was that the game I commed on metal?

Yeah, that was effing redicuous. The aliens had 4 gorges healing the hive, and since there was no splash damage they didn't die. I built 4 siege guns, had a GL on the hive, they just healed each other too fast. Eventually someone got behind us and bilebombed us out.

Siege damage needs to go back in and hitboxes need to be fixed. After that, we'll talk.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: rad4Christ on March 11, 2005, 05:59:02 AM
I was the gorge in the piping biling you. You needed to focus the GL under the hive on the gorges, then it would have gone down quickly.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: Niteowl on March 11, 2005, 10:31:28 AM
That's what I was wondering, it sounded like he was GLing the actual gorgies, and they were healing each too quickly :o

But yes, I must agree overall, sieging is a son of a mother job to do now.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: Legionnaired on March 11, 2005, 09:27:27 PM
Well, I think the strat to work out then is a phase rush, with GL/HMGs on the second hive at 5:30. You might have to eat the second hive for a minute or so, but you'll have awesome map control with the early phase gates.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: Necrosis on March 12, 2005, 10:17:19 AM
Aliens are starting to lose more frequently. I dunno if its a choke fix or its bitter experience, but I'm seeing more rushes on the hive, catpacks, multiple rushes on separate areas, etc.


I'll tell you what, its not fun as alien to try to shutdown two rushes only to find there's been a third, and that the third one is a full on PG TFAC lock with turrets all laughing at any skulk who gets too curious.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: Mr.Bill on March 12, 2005, 10:38:13 AM
what's happening is that marines are getting back into the game, their not all running around with their heads cut off, and their pushing harder in some games, where they tfact every pg position. I think Onos are now a vital part of the game, and with redempt working more often, not that much of a waist
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: LowCrawler on March 12, 2005, 12:31:40 PM
i comm now the same way i always did. Early phases are absolutely vital, even more important than weapons or armor... I mean think about it, what good are those lvl3 shotties when theyre still at MS?

being proactive -not reactive- to the second hive is the most important thing you can do as a commander. Get in there, and if you dont lock it down, at least have a presence.

Especially in pubs, half the game is mental. Dont mess with dbl, instead take the other 4 nodes you can get to. 2>4 and its a whole lot easier for them to attack your only two nodes at once than it is to be scattered all over the map doing it.

Back to the mental bit, electrify. When a skulk runs by an electrified node, he takes damage. This means he's not going near that node anymore... they basically give up on attacking your res.

Turrets. Turrets. Turrets.  Theyre cheap as hell and they never miss, again, the mental bit, skulks hate turrets.

Don't fear fades. Its unusual to see more than two fades early game- so what you can do as a comm is make a point to have MULTIPLE GROUPS of marines at different places in the map. (*spread out*) when you do this, the fade can't have any impact because he cant be everywhere at once, naturally.

Motion Tracking... you almost have to have this nowadays, with either silence or cloaking bound to come up soon.... 'nuff said.

adv. armory/proto wont be necessary until about 20 mins if you are good at having presence on the large majority of the map. This means youll have all the res, or at least all the res will be open, and youll have the hives. They can get two hives IF its late in the game (15 mins+) and ONLY if you have the third very heavily locked down.

for a marine team to win will require a large amount of organization and a clear plan A as well as a B.






/end.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: E-Fonzarelli on March 12, 2005, 04:12:13 PM
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In general, the game is waaay faster for the comm. I'm macroing and microing like there is no tommorrow. So the game is faster, everything is more frantic, you MUST keep your rines in groups (before it was just an option, but now with silence, cara whatever skulks, your rines must hunt in packs), and YOU MUST COUNTER WHATEVER UPGRADE the aliens are taking.

in the constellation forums this is exactly what the dev's have gone for.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: Mr.Ben on March 13, 2005, 06:23:32 AM
That is also the major issue. In a proper match aliens will have 3 upgrade chambers in <1 minute. 1 or 2 chambers go up as STRAIGHT away. After that you need to meet some skulks and figure out what upgrade they have, silence, cloaking and focus are all dead give aways but it's not necessarily obvious from the first scrimmish. So you can't make a move to start countering any upgrade till about 2 minutes, by that time you're half way to fades and a second hive, maybe they'll have an early lerk too.

MC is easy to counter, MT totally owns silence and celerity, however you can't rush MT at the start of a round because if they do SC you're going to get focus owned from 30 seconds onwards and never get a foot in the door. YOU HAVE TO, REGARDLESS OF CHAMBER TAKE A1 AT THE START. You can't start teching MT 3 minutes in to counter MC, by then fades are gestating. You can't risk trying to counter straight off the back either, therefore marines are forced to play A1 still and whilst it's useful againist all chambers, A1 isn't a counter to cloaking, silence or skulks taking 35-50 bullets because of carapace.

By the time marines are in a position to counter aliens properly they're in too strong a position.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: Necrosis on March 13, 2005, 07:40:02 AM
I had a good laugh last night, we'd went MC first yet one marine shouted CLOAKED ONOS IN MS.





We were all pretty baffled about that one.


Being PROACTIVE, as LC said, is the best thing you can do as comm. You KNOW you're going to see fades, you KNOW aliens are going to push second hive, so by thinking backwards from that point, you can see counters.

Worst thing you can do is get complacent after taking a hive. Games fail when the marines smash a hive, then wait around for a bit before hitting the next hive. In the interim skulks are hitting all nodes and trying to recap a hive, which means you're bleeding res before your final push.

Move directly from hitting one hive to hitting the other. Generally instead of fades/onos you'll see a big pile of alien eggs begging to be knifed, and it forces aliens to cluster the hive in order to combat you. If you're REALLY lucky half the alien team will be away from the hive trying to cap another, which means your push can't fail.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: 2_of_8 on March 13, 2005, 09:33:48 AM
One strategy that's very useful and pisses aliens off to no end is sending a ninja into the hive at about the time fades appear (between 3-4 minutes) and killing the egg. Obviously, the higher skilled fades will choose a better place to egg, such as a remote marine-inaccessible vent or on top of the hive, but there are still many fades which gestate on the floor.
Do the same thing, but very early on in the game - as soon as possible - with gorges trying to put up res nodes; rush the 2 closest nodes to their hive and kill those eggs.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: Necrosis on March 13, 2005, 04:37:25 PM
Thats an awesome strat. I almost knifed an Onos egg to death today. It was endgame, I was feeling sporting, so I ran in and went knife only.

In retrospect I should have shot it first before knifing and killing it, but my heart wasnt in it. Knife only, that way if the egg dies, he's learned a valuable lesson.


As it happened, he survived. Skulk saved him. Not before he screamed the house down on teamsay or his mic tho. Kekeke.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: Doobie Dan on March 15, 2005, 01:13:53 PM
I haven't had much time to play lately, but have the changes improved marine teamwork on LM?  I'm starting to get the feeling that the devs weren't happy with the lack of teamwork being used by the average marine team.  It'd be nice to hop in the chair and have a natural sense of teamwork already there - "where to, commander?" with at least 80% of the team STICKING TOGETHER.  That's been the biggest difficulty I've had as a comm is getting people to stay as a group.  It would certainly be more along the lines of the original idea for NS.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: Niteowl on March 15, 2005, 01:16:59 PM
Another strategy for NS 3.0. Don't EVER let me in the cc, you will lose, guaranteed.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: 2_of_8 on March 15, 2005, 01:47:43 PM
One strategy that I've used twice, and worked once, was simply do a mad rush on nodes. Today, I did this on ns_origin - their first hive was biodome. First minute, we capped only about 2 nodes - laser drilling and one in double. In the meanwhile, we kept getting killed. I got armour 1, my marines stopped dying so fast. We capped all of the right-side nodes, and even computer lab. Aliens had 3 nodes at this point; bio (starting hive), vent and xenoform.
I got a few phase gates, in furnace and vent. Electrified the res nodes at both hives. We proceeded to take out xenoform, leaving them at 1 node. Simply sieged the last hive, and won. At no point in this game did I experience a res shortage; I even got 2 arms labs, since I couldn't keep using the res as fast as it came in.
This win was in part due to the lack of Alien's offense, as they only took out 3-4 nodes, all of which I promptly recapped.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: lolfighter on March 15, 2005, 03:34:08 PM
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Another strategy for NS 3.0. Don't EVER let me in the cc, you will lose, guaranteed.
[snapback]43461[/snapback]
His spirit is broken, you see. He can't commrage anymore, because marines actually GET to their damn waypoints now.


Holy crap do they get to those waypoints! I'm seeing more and more marine wins and near wins. Mobility, pressure and teamwork are the keys.

Mobility: Move out immediately, and keep doing it. Phasegates will save your marines from those long footmarches through no-man's land that they have to do so often otherwise, and allow them to spend their time defending and attacking instead.

Pressure: Keep them on their toes all the time. Get phasegates outside their hives to threaten them. Kill their nodes. Kill their nodes. Kill their nodes. Nothing screws over an alien team like a lack of res. Whenever you're not moving out, you can bet that they are. The team that moves out wins.

Teamwork: Besides listening to orders (and giving them out if you're in the chair), this includes never moving out alone. A few highly skilled players can get away with it, but for most people it is highly recommended to team up. Two marines are three times as powerful as a lonely one.


And finally, ninja phases and shotgun rushes are still as effective as ever. Don't expect to be able to beacon and re-rush, because by then the skulks will be chomping the PG and the marines will just die as they phase in, but a team of shotgunners in the hive spells serious trouble for the aliens, and certain doom if they had no early warning. Later on, spice it up with jetpacks for extra mobility, especially in bigger hives.


I've been on the receiving end of this several times, and it's very nasty. The aliens are very bad at recapping. Most players go gorge again after dropping their node, and they'll have to reach 25 again to drop another one. Recapping early usually means giving up on early chambers, an early hive, or an early Fade, all of which play to your advantage. The marines can recap easily, and can recycle an endangered node to recover some res. The aliens can't.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: Diablus on March 15, 2005, 03:53:07 PM
Relocate outside the main hive -> build as many IPS as possibly -> Pull off another historical "Massive Bloody Charge WW1 strategy" into the hive room. No armory.... no ammo drops... no medpacks.. one man falls, the other takes his ammo / weapon and keeps on firing! >:D


(http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=Infantry+Charge/v=2/SID=e/l=IVI/SIG=131m18vch/EXP=1111013610/*-http%3A//www.ulstersociety.org/resources/home_rule/images/sequel/uvf_charge.gif)
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: Niteowl on March 15, 2005, 04:12:33 PM
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Another strategy for NS 3.0. Don't EVER let me in the cc, you will lose, guaranteed.
[snapback]43461[/snapback]
His spirit is broken, you see. He can't commrage anymore, because marines actually GET to their damn waypoints now.
[snapback]43477[/snapback]

No, no they don't. Not in the games I play, anyways.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: Necrosis on March 15, 2005, 05:07:24 PM
Rage more, Hoots! You have controlled your fear.... Now, release your anger! Only your hatred can destroy the aliums!




In other news, sgs can dice a hive in farrr too short a time. I mean full health to zip in a matter of seconds, and if noone is near an MC....... I've seen marines win games by surgically striking each hive. Get in, sg it, phase back to base. Rinse and repeat. Assuming you're keeping the nodes down, the aliens will swiftly run out of res. At worst you can expect an onos desperation rush, but with only one hive and fully upped shotties + mines you can expect Onos burgers.

Hell, if you rush a hive right after the onos rush you might get lucky and kill them all while they're healing up after redemption kicked in.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: Malevolent on March 15, 2005, 08:28:33 PM
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Another strategy for NS 3.0. Don't EVER let me in the cc, you will lose, guaranteed.
[snapback]43461[/snapback]
His spirit is broken, you see. He can't commrage anymore, because marines actually GET to their damn waypoints now.
[snapback]43477[/snapback]

No, no they don't. Not in the games I play, anyways.
[snapback]43484[/snapback]
You missed some games today and yesterday. The marines dominated. The aliens had no chance. But still, the aliens did win most of the time.
Title: New Comming strategies?
Post by: pardzh on March 16, 2005, 08:14:02 PM
I've seen a lot more Marine wins too. Seems like people are aiming better almost.