Overly Chatty Penguins

The Ready Room => General => Topic started by: SlickWill on February 13, 2005, 04:10:41 AM

Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: SlickWill on February 13, 2005, 04:10:41 AM
Was just wondering if altair could be removed from the rotation.  Everytime it comes up, it clears the server, even if there is an admin playing  :o .  I have yet to actually see anyone want to play it, so it just takes away from the game.  :(  What you guys think?
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: Plaguebearer on February 13, 2005, 04:16:25 AM
LB's already said no to this one.
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: lolfighter on February 13, 2005, 07:00:34 AM
If there's an admin playing, most of them are willing to change the map. Me, I'll do it whether you like it or not. Nothing short of hard cash will make me play that map.
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: AzubahF on February 13, 2005, 12:40:04 PM
while we're on this subject... I was wondering what you guys thought of the map cycle itself.  

as it is now, starting with Altair there is a pretty nasty section of the map cycle, going to Eclipse (which I think is like de_dust to CS, it's a popular map, not a good map, IMO), then Agora and Bast.  after that is all pretty good maps.  

could they be kept in the cycle, but separated a little more?  for instance, I don't like Mineshaft, but I'll usually stay and play that map anyway coz I know some good maps are up after that.
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: 2_of_8 on February 13, 2005, 01:14:45 PM
Here is the mapcycle, in case you want to comment or something.
All from memory! (yes it's sad).

tanith
origin
nothing
hera
mineshaft
caged
lost
metal
ayumi
nancy
altair
eclipse
agora
bast
veil
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: Necrosis on February 13, 2005, 01:31:08 PM
I'd have Bast, Mineshaft, and that one with Cold Turn as far away from each other as possible.

Mostly because I hate this version of Bast, noone seems to like mineshaft other than me, and that cold turn one is getting repetitive (relocate/tfarm at cold turn, gg).
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: Dark on February 13, 2005, 02:17:51 PM
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Was just wondering if altair could be removed from the rotation.  Everytime it comes up, it clears the server, even if there is an admin playing  :o .  I have yet to actually see anyone want to play it, so it just takes away from the game.  :(  What you guys think?
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as plaguebearer mentioned lb won't remove a map from the rotation while ns is still in beta form; however, if there isn't an admin present at the time go into irc and highlight one of the ops by IRC NICK or by using the !squidsignal only.
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: lolfighter on February 14, 2005, 02:36:17 AM
Aye. Ayumi is a sad case, it's a great map, but cold turn completely ruins it. Cold turn is even worse than mineshaft's u-turn.
Otherwise, mineshaft is the same: Great map, but u-turn spoils it. If the mappers in question could "defuse" u-turn and cold turn, we would have two solid maps on our hands.
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: rad4Christ on February 14, 2005, 07:22:11 AM
Well, mineshaft is ditched next patch, and cold turn windows are breakable now, but it's still a strategic stronghold.

If I'm on, I timelimit .001 on altair immediately and qucily on bast unless ppl want to actually play it.
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: Legionnaired on February 14, 2005, 10:10:30 AM
I've been thinking about cold turn, and I really don't see any way it could be modified to work realistically. I suppose it cuts off movement from between the two hives, but Eastern entrance does the same thing. Is it just the lack of vents that make it a stronghold?
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: Necrosis on February 14, 2005, 10:25:24 AM
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mineshaft is ditched next patch

That sort of sucks. I liked mineshaft, barring u turn.

Anyhow, I think Cold Turn's main problem is that accursed ramp. Marines camping it will nail anything trying to get up it, and if there's turrets helping then you can forget trying to get the hive.

Your only option is to loop around from the south and MC rush, but thats only an option on FF servers and also assumes the comm hasn't put anything in the hive room.

Smashing the windows is all very nice but that just means you can fit more turrets around the RT, making any ramp approach impossible. An onos train will get killed piecemeal. Fades can't dent it. Xeno needs three hives.

I don't mind character but I'd call cold turn a pretty serious map flaw.
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: A Boojum Snark on February 14, 2005, 10:35:40 AM
Well, breakable glass means OCs out there that would be tricky to take down from below the ramp without siege. Right now you can OC cold turn all you want but a GL will make short work from out of harm's way.
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: Doobie Dan on February 14, 2005, 10:37:35 AM
I think LB's rule should be modifed to:

* The mapcycle will not be modified while NS is in beta, or until NS has been in beta for more than a year.
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: Vinegar Ninja on February 14, 2005, 11:53:48 AM
hasnt it been well over a year now? D:
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: A Boojum Snark on February 14, 2005, 12:19:37 PM
Yup

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[ January 24th, 2004 ] :: 3.0 beta 1 released!
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: Dark on February 14, 2005, 01:06:28 PM
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mineshaft is ditched next patch

That sort of sucks. I liked mineshaft, barring u turn.

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i think if memory serves me correctly that it's mapper refused to update it after b4 so they decided to remove it in b6
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: TOmekki on February 14, 2005, 02:47:21 PM
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mineshaft is ditched next patch

That sort of sucks. I liked mineshaft, barring u turn.

[snapback]40581[/snapback]

i think if memory serves me correctly that it's mapper refused to update it after b4 so they decided to remove it in b6
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the mapper, Ekaj, is mia. thus no update.at least thats how i remember it was.

Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: Lightning Blue on February 15, 2005, 03:13:10 AM
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I think LB's rule should be modifed to:

* The mapcycle will not be modified while NS is in beta, or until NS has been in beta for more than a year.
[snapback]40584[/snapback]


You do have a point.
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: lolfighter on February 15, 2005, 07:03:48 AM
I think he does. If beta goes on for that long, it's hardly beta anymore. Mineshaft is still at least playable, but ayumi is critically flawed. Can't remember a single alien win there in weeks.

The problem with u-turn is that it's easy to get into, but fairly hard to get out of. That turns it into a deathtrap for Fades and especially Onos. Skulks can get in there, but the marines can hide around the corner, then make short work of the skulks once they try to munch on the siege farm. One thing that would fix u-turn would be to simply move it a little, so that drill access can't be sieged from there. But then, drill access would lack any good siege points.
Another possibility would be to simply raise the floor of u-turn and remove the ladders.

Otherwise, the problem with cold turn and u-turn is the same: They make the middle hive very easy to siege. Basically, a marine in either of those places undisturbed for ten seconds (or however long it takes to get a PG up) spells almost certain doom for the aliens.
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: Dark on February 15, 2005, 07:29:14 AM
i saw an alien win on ayumi just the other day.

it is possible for the aliens to win but they have to work TOGETHER at all costs or risk losing it from the word go
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: UKchaos on February 15, 2005, 07:53:33 AM
Im confused. Why does NS being in 'beta' have anything to do with what maps the server runs. I dont see the logic.

Maps which consistently empty the server should be removed, simple as that. Comabt was removed for similar reasons, no?

Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: 2_of_8 on February 15, 2005, 08:24:09 AM
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Im confused. Why does NS being in 'beta' have anything to do with what maps the server runs. I dont see the logic.

Maps which consistently empty the server should be removed, simple as that. Comabt was removed for similar reasons, no?
[snapback]40643[/snapback]

Simply because beta maps aren't completely balanced yet, are probably to be changed in the next beta.

I saw several alien wins yesterday on ayumi, including one with sensory first. All you need is teamwork.
(oh and my skillz :p)
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: Loke The Sleek Peruvian on February 15, 2005, 11:32:07 AM
Confused (http://www.lunixmonster.org/forums/index.php?showuser=46)  :D.

Someone should start Mineshaft's remake team. I like mineshaft but U turn is so hard to attack for fades and Onii, maybe a ramp  from Drill would help.

Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: UKchaos on February 16, 2005, 08:45:47 AM
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Im confused. Why does NS being in 'beta' have anything to do with what maps the server runs. I dont see the logic.

Maps which consistently empty the server should be removed, simple as that. Comabt was removed for similar reasons, no?
[snapback]40643[/snapback]

Simply because beta maps aren't completely balanced yet, are probably to be changed in the next beta.

[snapback]40645[/snapback]

Again, what does that have to do with what maps we choose? Surely we just want to play the maps that we like, maps that make for good games. We arent a PT server after all.
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: Niteowl on February 16, 2005, 10:03:31 AM
Seeing as the maker of altair is tweaking hte map now (it's quite different now, not that i'd know, was never a huge altair fan).

Could you all tell me what things about altair did you not like?
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: 2_of_8 on February 16, 2005, 10:10:26 AM
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Confused (http://www.lunixmonster.org/forums/index.php?showuser=46)  :D.

Someone should start Mineshaft's remake team. I like mineshaft but U turn is so hard to attack for fades and Onii, maybe a ramp  from Drill would help.
[snapback]40650[/snapback]

Simple removing the ladders on both sides of U-Turn would fix the problem, in my opinion. And maybe add a vent right above the resource node.
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: SlickWill on February 16, 2005, 11:00:38 AM
Problems with altair:

Poorly spaced, therefore making the map seem overly large

Too many siege spots and choke points where aliens and larger life forms can be destoryed.

Nobody knows how to comm it.

If the map is not changed immediatly, half the server quits and really small games on really large maps not fun.  Once again a marine advantage.

It is difficult to get multiple hive up and protect them unless you go MC first, which limits the variability for the alien game.

Overall, games tend to be lame because nobody like the map and don't mind losing, as long as it is 15:01 into the game.

It sucks.

Boring.

Lame.

Too much res making it easy for rines to get early control and have large res pool.  Also, the map layout makes it difficult for aliens to respond to RTs under attack, especially if the marines are in groups.

And it's boring.

If anyone would like to add anything, I'm open to adding things which I have missed that are wrong with the map.  

Oh yeah, almost forgot to mention the pit of death at an alien hive giving marine a HUGE advantage when attacking it.
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: SwiftSpear on February 17, 2005, 03:01:13 AM
Quote
Problems with altair:

Poorly spaced, therefore making the map seem overly large

Too many siege spots and choke points where aliens and larger life forms can be destoryed.

Nobody knows how to comm it.

If the map is not changed immediatly, half the server quits and really small games on really large maps not fun.  Once again a marine advantage.

It is difficult to get multiple hive up and protect them unless you go MC first, which limits the variability for the alien game.

Overall, games tend to be lame because nobody like the map and don't mind losing, as long as it is 15:01 into the game.

It sucks.

Boring.

Lame.

Too much res making it easy for rines to get early control and have large res pool.  Also, the map layout makes it difficult for aliens to respond to RTs under attack, especially if the marines are in groups.

And it's boring.

If anyone would like to add anything, I'm open to adding things which I have missed that are wrong with the map. 

Oh yeah, almost forgot to mention the pit of death at an alien hive giving marine a HUGE advantage when attacking it.
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To top it all off it is just an ugly map.
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: 2_of_8 on February 17, 2005, 08:27:32 AM
I agree, it does look bad. It's almost like a "custom map"... reminds me of siege or something.
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: UKchaos on February 17, 2005, 09:49:14 AM
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  Seeing as the maker of altair is tweaking hte map now (it's quite different now, not that i'd know, was never a huge altair fan).

Could you all tell me what things about altair did you not like?

Last time i gave KFDM constructive feedback, he said..

Quote
I believe you're making assumptions based off the older version that was released several months ago.


:rolleyes:
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: Manta on February 19, 2005, 06:19:34 PM
The only good thing I have seen come out of altair is the YMCA thing we did in the ready room once.
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: A Boojum Snark on February 19, 2005, 06:22:38 PM
I've seen similar happen IN GAME on hera, thus altair has nothing to do with YMCA goofiness
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: Manta on February 19, 2005, 06:40:57 PM
I like to think our dislike towards altair and refusal to leave the server at the time worked together to contribute towards the YMCA formations.
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: 2_of_8 on February 19, 2005, 11:57:25 PM
It was great. At first we listened to YMCA in the RR for a few minutes, then decided to dance. We had about 5 marines posing, and 1 "directing". (he said he'd post screenshots on the forums...) I don't know how it looked, but it was quite funny :)
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: Anarki3x6 on February 20, 2005, 10:00:05 AM
noes i love altair  :mellow:
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: Crispy on February 20, 2005, 02:45:09 PM
I think the hoo-har that Altair caused has given a lot for both the Dev team and KFDM to think about.

KFDM has spent untold hours improving it. If you check the announcements forum you'll see that the pit of death is already out, and many other improvements/alterations. Even since then there have been radical altairations to the map, so I'm looking forward to KFDM redeeming himself. I personally posted constructive criticism to KFDM a few weeks after the first release and I'm fairly sure he's taken on what people who bothered to try and help him have written.

The Dev team, I hope, will be giving maps a bit more scrutinizing before letting them into the Official mapcycle.

In eager anticipation,

- Crispy
Title: Getting altair out of rotation?
Post by: SwiftSpear on February 22, 2005, 04:05:51 AM
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noes i love altair  :mellow:
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After playing it a bit more, I have to admit it has its charm.  It is quite a bit more large and ominus then many of the other NS maps.  It is overly dark, but the largeness counters that fairly effectively.  Altair is one of the funner maps to tromp around in with HA mowing down skulks as they try to ambush off the cielings and flank you on both sides.

The map is rediculously marine biased and a smart comm with even a semidecent team can make a good few moves that just screw over the alien team like hell (PG beside an elec nozzle by the pit of death anyone?) but in a few conditions it can be fun to play...

I have yet to see an alien victory in recent recollection however...