Overly Chatty Penguins

The Ready Room => Off Topic => Topic started by: Uranium - 235 on October 07, 2004, 09:26:48 PM

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Post by: Uranium - 235 on October 07, 2004, 09:26:48 PM: Quote
We are happy to announce that we will soon be accepting applicants for the World of Warcraft® Open Beta Test for North America. The open phase of beta will give people a chance to enter Azeroth and play World of Warcraft before the game is released. More details will become available in the days ahead, so stay tuned.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/ (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/)

THERE

IS

GOD
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Post by: Grimm on October 07, 2004, 09:50:26 PM: I'm undecided as to if I want to participate in the open beta. As fun as the game is, I'd rather not create another character and spend some time levelling up and all just to have it deleted again. Then again, I've got nothing better to play, so we'll have to see.
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Post by: Dark on October 07, 2004, 09:50:39 PM: i'm definitely gonna get in on that this time B)
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Post by: Uranium - 235 on October 07, 2004, 11:02:29 PM: Quote
I'm undecided as to if I want to participate in the open beta. As fun as the game is, I'd rather not create another character and spend some time levelling up and all just to have it deleted again. Then again, I've got nothing better to play, so we'll have to see.
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My roomate and I are going to play Horde in Open since we'll be playing NElfs in Retail. I suggest you do the same, play something you really won't be playing in retail (Alliance if you plan on playing Horde, since they're a lot different)
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Post by: Grimm on October 08, 2004, 09:05:54 AM: Yea, that's what I was thinking. I've seen a lot of the Troll and Orc area, and I don't quite feel like mucking about in the Barrens anymore than I have to. I suggested to Vinnie that we make some Gnomes just for the hell of it, since I know a Gnome is one of the last races I would make.
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Post by: fatty on October 08, 2004, 09:17:12 AM: ooooooooo. i'll play horde too since i had a human rogue in stress test.
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Post by: rad4Christ on October 08, 2004, 09:43:09 AM: Quote
THERE

IS

GOD
Just ask me, I'd have told you that :p

Actually, I'm looking for the next addiction for me. I've never played MMORPG, but too many ppl I know online are salivating over this. I might check it out.
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Post by: Geminosity on October 08, 2004, 11:28:51 AM: I'd probably consider giving it a shot if I felt motivated enough...

!!! INCOMING CHALLENGE !!!

Make gem want to play WoW open beta in under the timelimit.
Use the control stick to search for reasons and select them with the 'A' Button.
Use the 'B' button to cancel.

Bonus Points are awarded for Style, Remaining Time and Caek.

---SCOREBOARD---

CAP - 1,000,000
SNK - 890,000
GEM - 790,000
MAY - 600,000
OMG - 33,999
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Post by: Uranium - 235 on October 08, 2004, 01:17:59 PM: Clockwise Rotation
L
A
A
Z
R + Y
Stick Down
Stick Down
A
R + Y
Stick Down
Stick Down
Stick Down
A

Three - hit with a Fire Sabre + 13, finishing powermove, zonde followed up with rafoie! FATALITY!
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Post by: Geminosity on October 08, 2004, 01:55:59 PM: ~Gem blocks all the attacks with maxxed out evasion stat and a lil nifty footwork, gets hit by the spells but gets made invincible by the mag following them and then Ura gets hit with level 30 zalure knocking his defence down followed by the sharp end of a level 30 shifta-boosted Soul-Eater beserk attack combo killing him instantly~ :p
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Post by: Evangelion_2 on October 08, 2004, 02:16:48 PM: lol I have had the closed beta for awhile and haven't played it once in the last 3 weeks >:D
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Post by: Grimm on October 08, 2004, 02:21:31 PM: I'm pretty sure I remember you saying you'd try it out anyway, but for the sake of boredom, I've got a couple reasons. Despite the fact that Gem tends to shoot me down on any topic of WoW without giving it a second thought.

-We're playing, and games are always fun with friends.
-You'll have the opportunity to actually try the game instead of judging it from screenshots and videos.
-You tried the open betas and whatnot for so many other games, why would you randomly decide to skip this one?
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Post by: Geminosity on October 08, 2004, 02:52:55 PM: I skip lots grimm and what do you mean without a second thought? I always think things through a couple of times after shooting my mouth off XD

Seriously though; I've not been playing many MMOs recently. I've even skipped over some I got into without even touching them. Maybe it's work sucking up my time or maybe my disillusionment with MMOs lacking the action and player-skill I want so badly is finally dragging me away from them.

When the open EU test hits I'll probably try it but I can't be bothered with the silly hastle of messing with proxies and lying about my addy just to try a north american one ~shrugs and smiles~
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Post by: bacon_flaps on October 08, 2004, 03:24:57 PM: Where are all the names on the scoreboard like:

SEX
ASS
FUK
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Post by: Uranium - 235 on October 08, 2004, 04:05:57 PM: Quote
lol I have had the closed beta for awhile and haven't played it once in the last 3 weeks >:D
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You suck, I asked for that if you got bored of it :)
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Post by: Malevolent on October 08, 2004, 10:56:31 PM: Hmm, I'll try it if I can find somewhere to download it.
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Post by: Redford on October 09, 2004, 02:33:16 PM: Yes. Still no news however. Nice music bite tho. Also, apparently the strongest NPC in WoW is apparently batman.
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Post by: lolfighter on October 10, 2004, 08:00:15 AM: It's happening again. People play an "open beta" (MMORPG lingo for "demo"), get hooked. Fueled by the developers, they blame whatever bugs or shortcomings the game has on "it's still in beta". Come release, they buy the game, only to discover that their pet-peeve bug or flawed feature that "will surely be removed/fixed before the game ships" is still present. They play for two months, valiantly trying to rebuild the community they had back in beta, but fail because half of that community didn't want to pay for the game. Finally they give up and become disgruntled MMORPG-haters. Talk to you again three months after WoW's release.
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Post by: Grimm on October 10, 2004, 11:02:29 AM: Even in it's current beta state, the game has more content and fewer bugs than games that have already gone retail, and the bugs that are there don't interfere wtih the gameplay itself.

I know the feeling of a bug that "... will be fixed in an upcoming patch..." but never is; As a Scrapper in City of Heroes, there was a bug that would spawn minions and bosses in the instanced rooms that were much too strong for me to take, and I would have to wait until I levelled up a couple times before I had a solid chance of taking them on. They said "We'll be releasing a patch soon that will include a fix for such-and-such bugs (including the one I was having a problem with) as well as some great new content (like being able to modify your costume later in the game)". When they said "soon", they hinted at only a couple weeks, yet a month and a half passed before I decided I didn't like the game any more and cancelled my account. They released the update about a month after I quit, if I recall correctly.

I trust that Blizzard will take care of any issues in better time and fasion; They've been a solid company for so long, they have no reason or incentive to grap out on their playerbase with this game.
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Post by: lolfighter on October 10, 2004, 11:23:58 AM: I'll have that much faith in Blizzard: They do what they say that they'll do. If only they'd ever do something that hasn't been done a million times already. The MMORPG genre needs a massive overhaul, and Blizzard won't be the ones to do it. We need a bold risktaker developer to dare to something new and pull the genre out of the gutter. Blizzard's WoW may be king when it ships, but it'll still be king of the sewage.
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Post by: Geminosity on October 10, 2004, 01:07:10 PM: ~hugs fighter~
It's times like these I remember why I like you so much ^_^
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Post by: Uranium - 235 on October 10, 2004, 02:16:09 PM: I'll get you an open beta account, Gem, if you don't want to put up with the work to get one.
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Post by: Grimm on October 10, 2004, 05:59:30 PM: The game is fun for me. That's all that matters. I've never been big on MMO's; I havn't had an Everquest account or a Dark Age of Camelot account or an Asheron's Call account or any other long-standing MMO. I played City of Heroes for two months, and that's about all the MMO experience I have. World of Warcraft is fun, even if it doesn't have real-time dodging or 50 million character creation options or the ability to make fresh toast spring from your disk drive.

No matter where I go, no matter who I talk to, people would rather go out of their way to complain about a game than discuss what they like, either in the same game or in any other game. It really gets me down, and it becomes more difficult to remain optomistic when I'm surrounded by pessimists. If you all want to go have your pissy party about how a game doesn't fulfill every desire you have and doesn't have dozens of cool new features, go ahead, but remember there are those of us that can still find it entertaining.
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Post by: Geminosity on October 10, 2004, 06:13:38 PM: I can discuss what I like about PSO for hours ^^

Wellll... as long as I don't have to do anything weird like IP re-routing or something ura; sure! =D

Grimm... I don't really have an opinion of WoW really. I just have an opinion of what people have told me; I was mainly giving fighter a hug because of the general MMO comment he was making rather than the WoW one =3
I'll make my own mind up about wow if I ever get to play it...
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Post by: Satiagraha on October 10, 2004, 07:16:24 PM: What the hell is WoW?
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Post by: bacon_flaps on October 10, 2004, 07:19:31 PM: Did you not read the very first post?
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Post by: Satiagraha on October 10, 2004, 07:27:21 PM: I meant, what's the World of Warcraft. I know what WoW stands for <_<

(http://www.drod.net/forum/emoticons/twak.gif)

[size=8]Note: Post 888! the apocalypse's little brother![/size]
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Post by: bacon_flaps on October 10, 2004, 09:12:29 PM: Arr, here be the "general info" page on WoW.

http://www.blizzard.com/wow/ (http://www.blizzard.com/wow/)
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Post by: Uranium - 235 on October 11, 2004, 03:28:15 AM: Basically it's the first MMO game I've played that's been done right.
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Post by: lolfighter on October 11, 2004, 03:28:44 AM: At least it's (http://www.machall.com/index.php?strip_id=280) prettier than Everquest. (http://www.machall.com/index.php?strip_id=282)
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Post by: Uranium - 235 on October 11, 2004, 03:30:11 AM: I think even EQ2 looks horrible, in a UT2k4 kinda-way - where the graphics are GOOD, but there's something intangible about them that just makes it look... 'not good'.
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Post by: tankefugl (in a tent) on October 11, 2004, 04:13:01 AM: Quote
I'll have that much faith in Blizzard: They do what they say that they'll do. If only they'd ever do something that hasn't been done a million times already. The MMORPG genre needs a massive overhaul, and Blizzard won't be the ones to do it. We need a bold risktaker developer to dare to something new and pull the genre out of the gutter. Blizzard's WoW may be king when it ships, but it'll still be king of the sewage.
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Blizzard has never been known to do NEW things. They focus on doing old things right, or at least much much better than previous similar games. Inovation is for the independent, polish is for the giants.

I have great faith in WoW, mainly because of what I've experienced of Blizzard games before.
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Post by: lolfighter on October 11, 2004, 07:44:19 AM: I agree, except that no amount of polish will do any good. Crap, no matter how long you polish it, remains crap. For every layer of crap you polish away, there's a new layer of crap. Keep polishing until there's no more crap left, and you'll notice that there is NOTHING left. That's why the genre NEEDS innovation, not Polizzard. People will STILL buy the game though, so for all intents and purposes, it will be hugely successful, leading to even more emphasis on polish and even less on innovation. Welcome to the world of "Everjest 2005", "Basheron's Mall 2k5", "Dark Age of Ramelot '05", "World of Barcraft Drunkard Edition" and so on and so forth.

Blizzard needs to genres that are actually GOOD. Have 'em make a FPS or something like that, and I'll have faith that it'll be good. But genres where innovation is a scarce but desperately needed resource, they're not Blizzard's area of expertise. They probably know that too, but the allure of the "buy the game every month" payment scheme is just too hard to resist.
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Post by: Geminosity on October 11, 2004, 11:04:45 AM: we need MMOAAG (Massively Multiplayer Online Action Adventure Gaming).

You know you want it =3
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Post by: Grimm on October 11, 2004, 04:38:07 PM: Uranium: Glad to know I'm not crazy when I try to explain to my friend why I don't like EQ2's graphics.

Geminosity: Of course I'd want it.

lolfighter: It isn't so much polish as it is fixing a lot of problems that occur in MMO's. Blizzard is doing a very nice job of making the game flow better, allow users to become more involved with their character by providing more solid content, and fulfilling the wish of people everywhere to play in the Warcraft universe from the perspective of one person instead of an invisible hand commanding massive armies.

Yes, there are games that don't bring any new ideas to the industry, but that doesn't mean a game should absolutely have to bring out something new. There are a lot of games out there that brought some really cool new idea, but turn out to be gimmicks, like the destructable walls and floors in Red Faction. And the games that do bring some new idea, some new innovation, like Planetside, get bashed to hell for no good reason.

And in the end, if you really want to see some changes made, you can't sit idly by complaining and expect things to magically happen. Get involved in a community, express your interests and ideas; chances are there are other people with similar views who would join you and speak up more about what they want to see.
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Post by: lolfighter on October 12, 2004, 06:32:14 AM: Quote
[...]fulfilling the wish of people everywhere[...]
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If Blizzard was fulfilling the wish of people everywhere, they'd be making Starcraft 2. Remember the UPROAR when Blizzard's next game was announced to be not the Starcraft 2 that everyone craved, but a MMORPG in the Warcraft universe?

Quote
[...]Get involved in a community[...]
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Lunixmonster takes a fair bit of work. So does building a rep to the point of people listening to you in a new community. Don't have the time for both.

Just give me something to do when I'm fighting, for chrissakes. Make me more than a spectator to a mathematical equation solving itself. Take a very simplistic example:
Ever played FFX? One character, Auron, had a series of special moves. To trigger them, you'd enter key combinations. Try a combat system like that. You get a base chance to hit, based on your level, character class, equipment, level of enemy etc. When you're getting ready to make an attack, a string of keys that have to be pressed in sequence pops up, and you have to press them inside a given time limit. Fail to do so in time and you get only base damage and base chance to hit (both inadequate), do it in time and your attack gets modified by how much time you had left. 5% extra chance to hit per second, for example. Maybe bonus points for making no mistakes while entering the combination. Add symbols that you have to click with your mouse. Leftclick, rightclick, doubleclick etc. Or implement some other kind of combat system, but make it one where my actions are key to victory.

"In MMORPG, game plays YOU!" That's my main beef, and WoW isn't doing anything about it. Currently, MMORPGs are like Progress Quest (http://www.progressquest.com/) with built-in IRC functionality.
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Post by: Grimm on October 12, 2004, 09:47:49 AM: I have to admit that I wasn't part of any major communities that posted anything about the announcement of WoW instead of a second Starcraft. However, I have read a lot about what other people want in a new Starcraft, and from the looks of it, Blizzard might have good reason in waiting. First there's the debate between keeping it two dimensional or making it three dimensional; A lot of people would rather have a more 'classic' look to it, while a lot of others want to see Starcraft in some solid 3D glory. Then there's the idea of if they'll impliment the Hero system that Warcraft III brought in, as well as having to create new units and structures for each race. It takes a lot of time and effort to create the games that Blizzard has created, it isn't just a fluke or dumb luck. They can't go around pleasing everybody everywhere, especially if a lot of people don't speak up for what they want to see.

You aren't constantly stationary when fighting an enemy in WoW. You can move around to avoid their melee attacks; granted not in the same dodging style of PSO, but you can still be mobile while attacking. I know it isn't anything new and amazing, I know it isn't incredibly creative, but I do know that it is fun. The key combinations idea is certainly very innovative, but it sounds like the encounters would be stale as each person stands in a stationary spot while typing out the combination. Think "Typing of the Dead" in an MMO, and that doesn't sound all that entertaining.
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Post by: lolfighter on October 13, 2004, 06:04:45 AM: The key combinations idea was just that - an idea. A quickly thought-up one at that. I didn't say it should be implemented "as-is". Heck, for all I care, make combat in MMORPGs like in Devil May Cry: Full of action, and far more skill-driven than stat-driven. Some would argue that this "isn't an rpg", when really they couldn't be more wrong.
An RPG is defined as a "role-playing game". Some people equate this to stats, but that's far from the truth. A role-playing game is defined as a game where you play a different role. You need to think inside character, act inside character, etc. etc. You're not roleplaying properly before you get into moral conflicts with YOURSELF because you want to do something like kill a deer (http://www.machall.com/index.php?strip_id=283), only to then remember that you're a druid and can't really do such things. The key to role-playing, then, is immersion, and I'll argue that immersing yourself in a game is far easier when you're actually controlling your character instead of spectating him. Some people are natural-born roleplayers, most have a hard time with it. Developers, extend a hand to 'em. Pretty graphics are not all that immersive by themselves. Make them PLAY the game, not watch it while chatting with their buddies.
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Post by: Grimm on October 13, 2004, 04:31:30 PM: You're making assumptions when explaining what "Role playing" is; I've never thought that in order for something to be an RPG, it had to have numbers and stats. I've enjoyed many games like Devil May Cry and the Zelda series; Action-adventure games where you are playing a character without a typical RPG stat system, no but you do find ways of improving your character as you progress through the game by getting new weapons and learning new abilities. I understand the idea and I enjoy the gameplay a lot.

I really think you should play the game before you argue that the player is merely 'watching the game'; There is nothing automatic about any of it except for a basic melee attack, and if you go around trying to use that constantly, you'll get your ass kicked. You have to decide when and in what order to use your other abilities, and factors such as mana/energy, cooldown time, and which ability is better at a certain situation come into play. Do I take the chanceI blast this Kodo with some damage to try to kill it before it kills my partner? Or do I heal my partner first to guarantee his survival? The former would probably generate enough aggro to distract the beast to attack me, but I might be low on mana when I need to heal myself, while the latter might drain enough mana that I won't be able to cast any damaging spells against the beast, thus prolonging the battle. And the game was made so the macros cannot be abused; one attack per macro, preventing long chains of attacks/ability uses to basically bot your way through the game.

Also, the 'stats' in World of Warcraft aren't like the stats in most normal games; When you level, you don't get a certain number of stat points to allocate into strength, agility, energy, etc. You do gain stat points, but it's an automatic thing that increases depending on your class. There is a stat-type thing along the lines of weapon and magic proficiencies; The more I use a stave to attack things, the more skill I gain for that weapon, and so on for different weapons and types of spells. The talent system will give you points that you can use to increase something specific about your character, like mana regeneration, but that's about as close to choosing stats as it gets.
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Post by: lolfighter on October 14, 2004, 05:57:52 AM: Sounds like DAoC, which arguably had the best combat system of any mmorpg I've played. It's not good enough for me (read: there's not enough action), but it's a step in the right direction. Could somebody who has tried both DAoC and WoW tell me whether my assumption is correct that the combat systems are somewhat alike?
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Post by: Geminosity on October 14, 2004, 11:11:37 AM: grimm... assumptions aside you still have a portion of the combat automated and as you said while you can move you can't really dodge.

Don't get me wrong I'm aware of the whole 'skills' thing which is a lot like CoH but it still makes for very slow battles really.
Until we get PSO-level or preferably above combat interaction I think the term 'MMO' still equates with the words stale, slow and limited in the realms of combat. That wouldn't matter so much if the games weren't usually so heavily orientated around it (even crafting is mainly for the purposes of making items to be used in combat).

Don't take the post fighter put out as being aimed at you though grimmy... sounds like to me more he's explaining his viewpoint which is very similar to mine =3
Well, ok I think DAoC was a steaming pile of crud but aside from that. I guess lollers hasn't played PSO ^~

still not fantastic but a lot more involved than the usual fair is Maple Story (http://www.mapleglobal.com) which most of you guys should know from me mentioning it in IRC.
It's a 2d platform action MMORPG. The collisions are real-time so you can leap over the badguys and stuff to avoid attacks if you're good :)
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Post by: Grimm on October 15, 2004, 01:01:38 AM: I just don't see why people have to go out of their way to post negatively about a game in a posotive thread. I don't try to get people into any games that they seem set on not playing, yet people still have a burning desire to tell me how much the game I enjoy sucks, or how such-and-such other game is better, even if they havn't played the game in question. It just really gets me down; I almost didn't even come back to look at this thread, let alone post in it again, because it's extremely extremely discouraging to even think about it anymore. World of Warcraft is fun for me, and for a lot of others, and that isn't going to change no matter how much the game 'lacks originality or innovation' or 'doesn't have such-and-such feature from such-and-such game', because I'm not looking for innovation or copies; I'm looking for something I can enjoy, which is what I found, and I don't understand why people can't be satisfied with leaving me or any others with our entertainment.
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Post by: Uranium - 235 on October 15, 2004, 02:22:25 AM: Quote
An RPG is defined as a "role-playing game". Some people equate this to stats, but that's far from the truth. A role-playing game is defined as a game where you play a different role. You need to think inside character, act inside character, etc. etc. You're not roleplaying properly before you get into moral conflicts with YOURSELF because you want to do something like kill a deer (http://www.machall.com/index.php?strip_id=283), only to then remember that you're a druid and can't really do such things. The key to role-playing, then, is immersion, and I'll argue that immersing yourself in a game is far easier when you're actually controlling your character instead of spectating him. Some people are natural-born roleplayers, most have a hard time with it. Developers, extend a hand to 'em. Pretty graphics are not all that immersive by themselves. Make them PLAY the game, not watch it while chatting with their buddies.
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Force roleplaying? Yeah that'll work REAL WELL.

By the way, Gem, I'm forcing you to play a Nightelf Rogue with me in Open Beta - You'll love em :)
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Post by: Sancho on October 15, 2004, 03:59:43 AM: I really, really want to get into this beta, mainly because I refuse to pay monthly fees for MMORPGs and so this will be my only chance to try it for free. If I like it, I'll definitely subscribe.
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Post by: lolfighter on October 15, 2004, 07:00:03 AM: I apologize for having caused you any grief, Grimm. It's a part of my vendetta against MMORPGs. They've taken my money and my time, and what they gave me in return was practically worthless. I feel scammed. I hate them. Hate them. And now I'm seeing it happen again, only to OTHER young and innocent, soon to be old and violated, gamers. It fills me with bile and anger, and I couldn't hold it back. While my means were questionable, my motivation was pure: I only tried to save you. I'll leave you alone now.

No, Gem, I never played PSO. I never had a Dreamcast, and I've never hooked a console up to the internet (and I don't know if I ever will). I've tried UO, DAoC, AO and AC2, in that order, and out of those, DAoC had the best combat system. I'm not saying it was good, but it was better than the others.

Force role playing, Uranium? How would you do that? No, there is no way to force role playing. But a modicum of role playing would be nice, considering that "MMORPG" contains "role playing game". The rigorous filters on character names that I hear WoW uses seem like a good start. Nothing spoils roleplaying as much as suddenly having a dwarf called "lolololol668" running across your screen. You can't FORCE players to role play, but you can help them.