Overly Chatty Penguins

The Ready Room => General => Topic started by: Necrosis on September 19, 2004, 01:11:08 PM

Title: Ns.org Comments On Structure Blocks..
Post by: Necrosis on September 19, 2004, 01:11:08 PM: I'm sure you've all read the dev comments on structure blocks.

I've made my post on the NS forums, but what do the LM folk think of this? Will it affect LM server rules? Should it? Does anyone thing the Dev team have got it wrong?
Title: Ns.org Comments On Structure Blocks..
Post by: Magmatron on September 19, 2004, 01:34:38 PM: I suppose when the dev team starts pitching in for server costs, it might. Until then, we'll probably be keeping things the same.
Title: Ns.org Comments On Structure Blocks..
Post by: Satiagraha on September 19, 2004, 02:24:31 PM: Quote
I'm sure you've all read the dev comments on structure blocks.
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Whoseewhatsit? What are you talking about? REFERENCES! NEED DIRECT REFERENCES!

(and for the record,
Quote
You know what's funny? I still don't have an account to the NS Forums :p
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Title: Ns.org Comments On Structure Blocks..
Post by: Dirty Harry Potter on September 19, 2004, 02:27:40 PM: read the latest announcement on the NS forums.
Title: Ns.org Comments On Structure Blocks..
Post by: Satiagraha on September 19, 2004, 02:31:38 PM: Quote
Type 1: Blocking Vents: The NS team believes that blocking a ground level vent from the outside or building within a vent is exploitive and are investigating measures to remove it from the game.

Type 2: Blocking Corridors, Hallways, Doors: This includes dropping marine structures in locations to block doorways. We consider this to be a valid strategy, and if the marine team has the resources to accomplish this, then that's their decision.

Is it just me or does that sound contradictory?
Type 1: You can't drop buildings (even if you have the res to do so) to block alien passageways
Type 2: you can drop buildings to block passageways
Title: Ns.org Comments On Structure Blocks..
Post by: Diablus on September 19, 2004, 05:10:16 PM: lol, i really do wonder if devs actually THINK the community is mature enough to follow these rules...

It's like putting a ADD/ADHD kid in a small white room for a day with nothing in it besides a HUGE button that says "Do Not Touch" expecting him/her to actually listen.
Title: Ns.org Comments On Structure Blocks..
Post by: fatty on September 19, 2004, 05:34:54 PM: Must...Not...Touch...Button...

...

crap.
Title: Ns.org Comments On Structure Blocks..
Post by: Isamil on September 19, 2004, 06:07:10 PM: Those rules are preaty much the same ones we follow now anyway.
Title: Ns.org Comments On Structure Blocks..
Post by: BobTheJanitor on September 19, 2004, 10:56:14 PM: The rules basically say that you can't vent block, which everyone agrees with. Even that CAL folks agree with that one.

But then there seems to be confusion about the other two rules, which are that you CAN hallway block, but you can't lifeform block. This would be the difference between dropping a CC wall to cover the aliens getting into a room while you're setting up a siege base, and dropping a CC immediately in the path of a retreating onos.

Regardless, the rules on LM always have been that you use structures for their intended purpose. If you drop a CC you better plan on building it and putting IPs up around it. CC walls also have never been allowed. (that is the building walls ahead of time for protection when no alien are around) On the other hand, aliens blocking just about anything IS allowed, because the effort and res cost for aliens to block off an area with chambers is far more than that for marines. And I've always thought this was the intention of alien chambers, after all, a representation of them slowly taking over the map with infestation.

I'm pretty curious to see how the dev team builds in solutions for these problems. I'm betting building will ghost for a certain number of seconds before becoming solid, or will simply ghost until a marine actually starts building them. At that time we may possibly have a discussion on our blocking rules, but that doesn't mean anything will change, and that remains in the future.

THE MORE YOU KNOW!
Title: Ns.org Comments On Structure Blocks..
Post by: lolfighter on September 20, 2004, 05:13:59 AM: Not to mention the direct counter to aliens blocking with chambers: Make the gorge eat lead. There's ABSOLUTELY NO WAY to prevent a Commander from dropping an unbuilt CC ANYWHERE on the map (which still, even in its unbuilt state, is tough as nails in a concrete block wrapped in kevlar within a barbed wire fence guarded by rabid dobermans that haven't been fed for two weeks except for an occasional burrito). So we have to restrict that kind of behaviour otherwise, by, say, threatening the Comm with dire consequences.
Title: Ns.org Comments On Structure Blocks..
Post by: Niteowl on September 20, 2004, 12:20:59 PM: Quote
There's ABSOLUTELY NO WAY to prevent a Commander from dropping an unbuilt CC ANYWHERE on the map (which still, even in its unbuilt state, is tough as nails in a concrete block wrapped in kevlar within a barbed wire fence guarded by rabid dobermans that haven't been fed for two weeks except for an occasional burrito).
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just for you smarty alecky types, that's a VEGETARIAN LITE burrito! HOLD THE SALSA AND CHEESE!! that's right.. THAT sorta burrito. so that's a pretty rabid doggie i'm telling ya.
Title: Ns.org Comments On Structure Blocks..
Post by: Malevolent on September 20, 2004, 01:31:03 PM: Yeah, the dev's guidelines seem a little contradicting to each other. But what can ya do? As long as we keep good rules on LM, it doesn't really matter.
Title: Ns.org Comments On Structure Blocks..
Post by: Necrosis on September 20, 2004, 02:01:57 PM: Interesting comments.

I didn't think it'd really change anything about LM, was just interested to kick the subject around. I think ghosting is probably going to be the way to go, but we'll see what happens.
Title: Ns.org Comments On Structure Blocks..
Post by: Dark on September 20, 2004, 02:34:15 PM: Quote
Yeah, the dev's guidelines seem a little contradicting to each other. But what can ya do? As long as we keep good rules on LM, it doesn't really matter.
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you are very correct sir

the rules on lm should stand how they are since they sorta address this problem with the Don't be a llama rule :D
Title: Ns.org Comments On Structure Blocks..
Post by: Satiagraha on September 20, 2004, 04:59:45 PM: I'm just afraid that we're going to get some asshats on the server who will start CC blcoking and whatever with the defence of "But the NS devs said it's ok" v_v <_< :rolleyes:
Title: Ns.org Comments On Structure Blocks..
Post by: a civilian on September 20, 2004, 06:57:15 PM: Quote
the rules on lm should stand how they are since they sorta address this problem with the Don't be a llama rule :D
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Not really. That rule is far too open to interpretation depending on what actions one considers 'lame'.
Title: Ns.org Comments On Structure Blocks..
Post by: Avs on September 20, 2004, 10:55:28 PM: Whenever I see a structure dropped in the middle of nowhere, as a adolescent skulk I FEEL it is MY DUTY to cling onto that structure and swing to and fro from it widly while marines spray the otherside full of lead. Ah, the joys of random structures in the middle of hallways. Im sure Im not the only one who loves to cling to marine structures as if it was a playground for skulks.
Title: Ns.org Comments On Structure Blocks..
Post by: That Annoying Kid on September 21, 2004, 08:49:24 AM: what if your corridor blocking turns into an enemy block due to the route an alien player chooses to take? is it still kosher?!

I SENSE GRAY AREA!!11!five!1!

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plus putting sieges ontop or blocking the two vents in one in red room is now developmentally called illegal, yet it's crucial for sieging hive, zoinks! yet more gray area
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Title: Ns.org Comments On Structure Blocks..
Post by: lolfighter on September 21, 2004, 09:18:35 AM: Solution: STOP USING THAT LAME RED ROOM!

Grmblblbl...
Title: Ns.org Comments On Structure Blocks..
Post by: BobTheJanitor on September 21, 2004, 11:43:22 AM: It's perfectly possible to siege from red room without needing to block the vents.
Title: Ns.org Comments On Structure Blocks..
Post by: That Annoying Kid on September 21, 2004, 12:44:44 PM: not if you have actual turrets + the TF in the bigger area and the only place you have left is up by the vents
Title: Ns.org Comments On Structure Blocks..
Post by: Malevolent on September 21, 2004, 07:07:42 PM: Good post scooter (and long :p). That CC hurting the hive was hilarious when it happened. About using it to destract the aliens -- I think that needs to be cleared up too for the server rules, since it would be a good strategy if it was allowed.
Title: Ns.org Comments On Structure Blocks..
Post by: BobTheJanitor on September 21, 2004, 11:11:13 PM: In B6 OCs are supposed to be recoded to fire at living targets first, and structures second, regardless of range. So I'd take that as the dev team's official NAY on using structures to draw OC fire. Also, interesting factoid about the CC. I have no idea why it would hurt it though... :blink:
Title: Ns.org Comments On Structure Blocks..
Post by: Sancho on September 22, 2004, 12:28:06 AM: Flayra commented a LONG time ago on structure blocking and I believe he said it was a perfectly viable strat, so this "official dev announcement" doesn't mean jack diddly to LM.

I like that ghost idea, has it been suggested to them or did you just come up with that bob? They need to hear that.
Title: Ns.org Comments On Structure Blocks..
Post by: BobTheJanitor on September 22, 2004, 07:38:15 AM: Yeah, Zunni knows about it, and Zunni is the main person to take comments from the mighty NS world and turn them into bite size morsels to take to flayra, so he can spit them on the floor and kick and cry.
Title: Ns.org Comments On Structure Blocks..
Post by: Doobie Dan on September 22, 2004, 08:31:15 AM: What about structures dropped that do not obstruct anything or draw any OC fire? Sometimes I'll drop a structure in a random area just to distract skulks, or hoping that some gorge hanging out in a hive will start spamming "THEY'RE BUILDING IN <insert hive area>".
Title: Ns.org Comments On Structure Blocks..
Post by: Niteowl on September 22, 2004, 10:55:16 AM: Quote
Flayra commented a LONG time ago on structure blocking and I believe he said it was a perfectly viable strat, so this "official dev announcement" doesn't mean jack diddly to LM.
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perhaps he changed his mind?
Title: Ns.org Comments On Structure Blocks..
Post by: BobTheJanitor on September 22, 2004, 01:58:53 PM: Quote
What about structures dropped that do not obstruct anything or draw any OC fire? Sometimes I'll drop a structure in a random area just to distract skulks, or hoping that some gorge hanging out in a hive will start spamming "THEY'RE BUILDING IN <insert hive area>".
I always thought that was handy, since a dropped ammo pack sounds the same as a dropped tfac or whatever. Really gives the skulks a jumpstart. :D
Title: Ns.org Comments On Structure Blocks..
Post by: Necrosis on September 23, 2004, 04:17:24 PM: Actually Flay's original comment was more to the tune of

"Its their res"

This latest version reads more like

"Its their res... but vent/playerblocking is an exploit."

I don't see any incongruity, just a better definition.
Title: Ns.org Comments On Structure Blocks..
Post by: Uranium - 235 on September 29, 2004, 07:30:07 PM: How is this contradictory? A vent has no room to go around the structure, a hallway does. Duh.

Oh and I have nothing against jamming open doorways with structures. Usually it breaks the door and starts acting weird and everyone has a laugh then.
Title: Ns.org Comments On Structure Blocks..
Post by: Keyser59 on September 29, 2004, 08:37:34 PM: It doesn't make sense because there is no clear on what a structure with the intent to block is. The CAL forums explains it best.

http://forums.caleague.com/index.php?showtopic=23629 (http://forums.caleague.com/index.php?showtopic=23629)

Oops, forgot you had to register now to see boards.

Anyways there is a pretty much a general consensus that 2 and 3 contradict each other, so the CAL admins will only enforce #1 as they have been doing. It would be a good practice in futility to try to sort come up with rulings in CC blocking cases.
Title: Ns.org Comments On Structure Blocks..
Post by: Necrosis on September 30, 2004, 11:47:52 AM: Well if the majority can't understand it then I guess they can wait til B6 and an inevitable fix.

Not that that'll stop people whining about it over and over (blockscripts being mentioned in virtually every thread under the sun).