Overly Chatty Penguins

The Ready Room => General => Topic started by: rad4Christ on August 24, 2004, 08:25:43 AM

Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: rad4Christ on August 24, 2004, 08:25:43 AM: So, you're defending a building hive, and a wave of shotty marines comes through the phase. Frantically, you keep attacking the marines, while skulks, gorges, and lerks fall all around you. Teamwork and luck are your hope, and somehow, you kill the entire wave of incoming marines. Suddenly, all those names in red on the scoreboard turn blue. BEACON! Half your team is still in the spawn queue. They can't afford another shotty rush, and it would take massive ammo spam for all those shotguns lying around... WAIT! Ammo packs fall with the weapons now! Marines flood in, pick up all the dropped shotties and ammo, GG hive...

Please, just give marines a giant seige cannon that destroys all three hives at once, then we won't waste 15 minutes to finally see the marines win....

PS. This post may be a little more pessimistic than reality...

And for the uninformed: News Announcement (http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=78531)
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: BobTheJanitor on August 24, 2004, 08:44:11 AM: I don't know if it will be all that bad, they still have to get to the guns after all. We'll see how it plays out in practice. Although it would be nice if they would implement some way for aliens to destroy dropped weapons. Another use for Bile or somesuch. At least this will avoid the constant aggravation of picking up an empty shotgun and finding you've suddenly auto-switched to your pistol.
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Doobie Dan on August 24, 2004, 09:56:37 AM: Oh, wow... that's a pretty huge change. This combined with the new beacon is going to make taking that PG down even more serious.
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Dark on August 24, 2004, 10:00:07 AM: one good thing about this is what bob said at least you will pick up a shottie with ammo or other big gun with ammo instead of empty weapons which just really piss people off or something to that effect
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Legionnaired on August 24, 2004, 10:00:37 AM: Don't forget, knockback is going to be fixed, which should at least help slightly when killing marines.
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Malevolent on August 24, 2004, 12:39:41 PM: I heard about the ammo dropping, but what is this new beacon?
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Dark on August 24, 2004, 12:48:39 PM: Quote
I heard about the ammo dropping, but what is this new beacon?
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the one that 3.0 introduced where everyone returns to ms
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Seth on August 24, 2004, 02:27:44 PM: thats the best idea i've heard, now it will be even more important for those newbs to hump the armory!!!! yay!
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Doobie Dan on August 24, 2004, 02:47:22 PM: Quote
thats the best idea i've heard, now it will be even more important for those newbs to hump the armory!!!! yay!
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DOIN IT FOR THE TEAM :D
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Dark on August 24, 2004, 03:14:17 PM: Quote
thats the best idea i've heard, now it will be even more important for those newbs to hump the armory!!!! yay!
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armouries need <3 too though this makes it seem quite odd not to make <3 to the armoury and well it will happen much more now
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Diablus on August 24, 2004, 06:18:33 PM: lol i really do think this is going to be funny, how in 3.0b5 every "change" benefits Marines. I have seen nothing yet that even slightly indicates (well except the knockback nerf) a alien boostage.

And i THINK the new Beacon now beacons to wherever the Marines relocated instead of Marine Start.

(which i could possibly see some pretty lame tactics, like building a CC in a unbuilt / unguarded hive and beaconing 8 Marines in there with shotguns <_< )

anyhow back to me ranting about the new patch:

-Turrets now do increased damage during weapon ups <_<

-Ammo dropping for marines <_<

-New baconing system <_<

and Just for wild guessing Ill bet theyll add in a Riot shield that can be electrified and a AWP, just for good times sake.
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Anarki3x6 on August 24, 2004, 07:15:46 PM: err i dont get how the new baconing beacon works? what if you have 2 ccs , one in original MS and one in reloc ?
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Satiagraha on August 24, 2004, 07:20:56 PM: Quote
err i dont get how the new baconing beacon works? what if you have 2 ccs , one in original MS and one in reloc ?
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Quote
And i THINK[/u] the new Beacon now beacons to wherever the Marines relocated instead of Marine Start.
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The system of beaconing to the CC is just Diablus's hypothesis. I don't think they're going to change the system from what is currently in place. I believe the "new beaconing system" that Doob was talking about is the change from respawning all dead rines to respawning all dead rines and teleporting all living rines to MS. (2.x to 3.0b)
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Necrosis on August 24, 2004, 07:33:51 PM: Well it'll make turret lamegames that much more "fun".

Imagine, you claw back your third hive, you all rush MS....... to find a pile of 3/3 turrets and rines. You'll be lucky to get in the room :(
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: devicenull on August 24, 2004, 08:59:41 PM: Yet another example of the dev team not listening to the players :/

Or maybe its listening to the stupid players, and not the smarter ones :/

Someone remind me to make a plugin to give the aliens one invincible player per team.. maybe it'll be balanced then
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Legionnaired on August 24, 2004, 09:14:32 PM: Diablus, that'd never work. The beacon spawns marines at mapper-set info_team_starts. It'd be impossible, without a basic evolutionary algorithm, to figure out exactly the 16 best places to spawn someone around a relocation, and even then it'd be buggy.

Don't think that's how it's working.
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Grimm on August 24, 2004, 09:36:36 PM: Slowly, ever so slowly, Natural Selection is turnng into what every newbie says it is but we say it isn't; Counter-Strike with aliens. :(
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Necrosis on August 24, 2004, 10:06:28 PM: Quote
Someone remind me to make a plugin to give the aliens one invincible player per team.. maybe it'll be balanced then

TEH RETURN OF TEH PHANTOM HIT BOX!!

It hurts and stings.

Meh you just have to have faith in the PTs, that they've balanced it so that although turrets can hand out the pain there's also a way to realistically counter them, and that 2 hive lockdowns aren't as viable earlygame.

As for beacon improvements, its a pity they couldn't just code it as a special sort of phase, or something, like it checks to see where the obs is, spawns in people at random locations within a fixed radius of said obs. Tho it'd probably end up more evil than ninja phases.
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Seth on August 24, 2004, 10:38:26 PM: turrets get upped damage when weapon upgrades, that cool.

will they ever fix them so they prioritse alien "players" over alien buildings?

if you want to balanced the turrets do what i've been harping about for so long, make the turrets ammo restockable either by marines on the ground or by the commander.

ie, a turret holds 50 bullets, comm can drop a ammo pack on the turret or a rine can empty his extra ammo into the turret...
would solve the issues with the massive turret farms i think.
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Lito on August 24, 2004, 11:08:25 PM: turrets were supposed to use weapon upgrades since b1. Its not a 'feature' its a 'bugfix'
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Necrosis on August 24, 2004, 11:37:59 PM: Yeah but one has to wonder what the knockon effect will be, especially in seriously lamed up bases where you CAN'T just circle the turret and bite it without taking damage.

It'll be onosburgers courtesy of turrets in lamegames now.
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Diablus on August 25, 2004, 12:16:04 AM: So many bug fixes to adjust to Marines advantage v_v ...

And Yes, the New beacon was a educated guess, i remember reading in the NS forums a post regarding that from some Dev, or mabye it wasn't? or mabye it was? i dont know, whatever. J

ust b5 will either be ALOT of fun, or ... LB will be forced to get NS bots for the Alien team because nobody will bother to PLAY them :angry:
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Seth on August 25, 2004, 12:28:16 AM: i'd say get the alien bots, its not much different from all the scripters i see today.
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: SgtFury on August 25, 2004, 04:49:42 AM: It was mentioned in one of the threads about the changes that their are buffs for the kharra being tested at the moment. What they are I`ve no idea?

Ah found it.....

Quote
Grendal :- I can think of 4 Kharaa buffs we are testing in this patch alone.

No, I can't tell you what they are.

http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/in...pic=78608&st=15 (http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=78608&st=15)
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Doobie Dan on August 25, 2004, 05:28:48 AM: Me and my big mouth. Yes, I was only talking about the 3.0 beacon.
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: SwiftSpear on August 25, 2004, 07:16:33 AM: Considering that marines smash the crap out of low skill alien teams repeditively on your average pub these days (they actually win combat games a good amount of the time with the timer at 20 mins), I really doubt the overall game balancing will be to thier favor very much. I would imagine the knockback effect will have alot more inpact that I see the people here estimating, but we'll see.
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Malevolent on August 25, 2004, 08:34:59 AM: Quote
Quote
I heard about the ammo dropping, but what is this new beacon?
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the one that 3.0 introduced where everyone returns to ms
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Doobie made it sound like there would be a another new one implemented in the new beta...

EDIT: Trying to confuse me like that! :p
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Necrosis on August 25, 2004, 10:34:07 AM: Well, how does one define Kharaa buff.

I suppose we could check the bugtracker, but lets go with the obvious -

Buff 1 - OGM, less knockback!
Buff 2 - FTW, less HA KNOCKBACK!!

Tho personally I would count those 2 as just 1 buff....... I hope...

Anyone else got suggestions for the remaining 3?
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: rad4Christ on August 25, 2004, 10:41:28 AM: Quote
Meh you just have to have faith in the PTs...

Problem with that. Most/all PT's are competitive players, and they assume Bhopping skulks and strafe jumping marines as "normal". So, us normal players who want to enjoy the game as created are screwed. Yes, knockback is reduced, and turrets, although strengthened, stil track slowly, but I can't move at the speed of light to get past turrets, so I'm going to die alot more now...

I have no faith in most PT's due to the fact they all utilize these lame tactics (IMHO only), thus balancing it for a certain style of gameplay.
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Malibu Stacey on August 25, 2004, 06:12:34 PM: Quote
i'd say get the alien bots, its not much different from all the scripters i see today.
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I find it funny how you accuse 90% of the server of scripting almost constantly. Perhaps people are actually as good as you think yourself to be?

In the same vein, blockscripts is fixed in beta 5. Although IMO thats going to affect Alien players more than Marines.
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: SgtFury on August 26, 2004, 02:09:38 AM: Quote
Well, how does one define Kharaa buff.

I suppose we could check the bugtracker, but lets go with the obvious -

Buff 1 - OGM, less knockback!
Buff 2 - FTW, less HA KNOCKBACK!!

Tho personally I would count those 2 as just 1 buff....... I hope...

Anyone else got suggestions for the remaining 3?
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Wasn`t there something mentioned about Regen overflow for aliens a while back or is that my diseased brain imagining things......... :blink:
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: SwiftSpear on August 26, 2004, 02:59:03 AM: Indeed there was fury.
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Doobie Dan on August 26, 2004, 10:42:24 AM: Yes - currently if you're an onos with Regen and you have 690/350 health/armor, your next regen tick will only take you to 700/350. It basically boils down to regeneration only really working away from battle due to armor being so important in 3.0. Supposedly in the next version, your unused minutes, er, I mean extra Regen health will roll over into armor, so you would go from 690/350 to about 700/415 (or whatever the onos regen rate is). It'll make it easier to attack a turret farm as you can still get your armor back despite 2 turrets picking away at you.

This will only have an extremely significant effect for onos. It will be a small buff to fade/lerk, but the effect will be most noticable when attacking turret farms.
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Necrosis on August 27, 2004, 12:31:34 PM: Which will be hella needed considering they now get ups (as they were meant to all along, but since the onos was never balanced for upgraded turrets...).
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Uranium - 235 on August 27, 2004, 03:34:56 PM: There's a thread in Beta Discussion complaining about it :D It's an awesome thread.
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Keyser59 on August 27, 2004, 08:21:19 PM: Quote
This will only have an extremely significant effect for onos. It will be a small buff to fade/lerk, but the effect will be most noticable when attacking turret farms.
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Or a huge buff to a fade, seeing as he no longer has to worry about taking single shots. Often when I fade I find myself at 300 health and 50 armour from harassing marines, forcing me to retreat. With this new system you don't worry about taking light damage because you just regen it immediatly. This allows fades to become much more involved in combat and a fade in a certain situation that used to have to retreat to regen armour will be allowed almost full activity,
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Malibu Stacey on August 27, 2004, 08:40:04 PM: I think we should play it before we cast judgement. There was a lot of hysterics when the 1.1/2.0 changes were being announced especially stuff like electrification upgrades & look how well 2.01 turned out.
Remember nothing in a beta release is final and even then the NS team has been known to release balance patches.
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Uranium - 235 on August 28, 2004, 02:00:47 PM: TBH I still think electricity is retarded.
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Doobie Dan on August 28, 2004, 03:41:39 PM: Quote
Which will be hella needed considering they now get ups (as they were meant to all along, but since the onos was never balanced for upgraded turrets...).
Turrets do half damage to an onos anyway, so with their new HP they're still ignorable for an onos.
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Necrosis on August 29, 2004, 09:31:40 AM: I hope thats true because otherwise the endgame is going to be the entire game.
Title: Like Marines Don't Have Enough Advantages
Post by: Zek on August 29, 2004, 01:19:10 PM: Regen overflow will also make killing elec nodes a cinch with a Fade. They'll effectively do zero damage no matter how long you swipe them.