Overly Chatty Penguins

The Ready Room => General => Topic started by: Lightning Blue on March 07, 2005, 11:05:51 AM

Title: Marine vs Alien wins
Post by: Lightning Blue on March 07, 2005, 11:05:51 AM: Click here! (http://www.lunixmonster.org/mvastats.htm)

Comments?

Aliens seem to be owning again...
Title: Marine vs Alien wins
Post by: Mr.Bill on March 07, 2005, 11:07:17 AM: Last time it was the same thing, the real problem with this is we dont know the size of the teams, if we did that'd be nice.
Title: Marine vs Alien wins
Post by: SheenaYanai on March 07, 2005, 11:18:33 AM: i would say lets wait till the marines adapting their tactic to the new alien features ..i think its to early to judge about the balance
Title: Marine vs Alien wins
Post by: holy_devil on March 07, 2005, 11:29:56 AM: Quote
i would say lets wait till the marines adapting their tactic to the new alien features ..i think its to early to judge about the balance
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agreed, it'll be a while though. once people start actually trying on marines..
Title: Marine vs Alien wins
Post by: rad4Christ on March 07, 2005, 11:53:28 AM: I've won three on LM as comm, and I could have easily had won more if teammates would listen...

The days of laxidaisical marines are over. Either start paying attention, going to waypoints, using your senses, or go aliens and plague them with your stupidity...

That sums it up nicely for me v_v
Title: Marine vs Alien wins
Post by: Vinegar Ninja on March 07, 2005, 11:56:40 AM: interesting also is that marines seem to be winning CO.
Title: Marine vs Alien wins
Post by: SlickWill on March 07, 2005, 12:25:24 PM: Quote
I've won three on LM as comm, and I could have easily had won more if teammates would listen...

The days of laxidaisical marines are over. Either start paying attention, going to waypoints, using your senses, or go aliens and plague them with your stupidity...

That sums it up nicely for me v_v
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Yep. Alien agression is at an all time high with the free upgrades. For now at least, aliens are aggresively placing RTs, attacking rts and responding quickly. It must be the same for rines. You cannot play the, OMG I have LEET HAXOR SHOOTING and stand outside the alien hive with two rines and expect to win the game. Complete agressive play is necassary, which means my comming style is out.... :(
Title: Marine vs Alien wins
Post by: Malevolent on March 07, 2005, 01:47:16 PM: Aliens always win usually when a new version comes out (well a substantial version).
Title: Marine vs Alien wins
Post by: 2_of_8 on March 07, 2005, 02:09:30 PM: I just hope that this is in fact a problem that will be solved by time and not a problem inherent to this version and only solved by an extremely organized and skilled Marine team.
Title: Marine vs Alien wins
Post by: Diablus on March 07, 2005, 02:34:39 PM: Aliens always end up owning on new releases im the beginning, then after a few weeks the wins start to decline as new marine tactics and adaptation improves.
I also started to notice a decline in Marine teamwork on the times I've played Marine... Marines are letting Aliens get 3 hives up quickly which is a reason why they're getting owned beyond belief in some games. In a few weeks or even less Marine wins will start to climb their way up on the scoreboards.

Another reason is that In ALL of the builds before this one it was 99.9 percent of the time Upgraded Marines Vs Vanilla skulks. Now that its Upgraded Marines vs Upgraded skulks Marines are at a challenge which is great. Marines need to adapt to the fact that they're fighting upgraded skulks who will be faster, quicker, cloaked, or can take a few more bullets. Once the marines adapt to that the games *Should* be even then. I think they finally hit the nail on its head on what was causing the major unbalance (level 1-3 armor and weaponed Marines vs vanilla Skulks)
Title: Marine vs Alien wins
Post by: Necrosis on March 07, 2005, 03:58:56 PM: Aliens always had to be aggressive, this just makes it easier.

The real point where the current build fails is that imho far too much pressure is put on the comm. Even if he DOES get all his waypoints and tech right, he still *needs* a good marine team.

The days of a good comm saving a crappy team or a good team saving a crappy comm are long gone. At the moment I haven't decided if thats a good or bad thing.
Title: Marine vs Alien wins
Post by: 2_of_8 on March 07, 2005, 04:32:12 PM: Quote
The days of a good comm saving a crappy team or a good team saving a crappy comm are long gone. At the moment I haven't decided if thats a good or bad thing.
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I'd say it's a pretty bad thing; a completely good team is needed to win. While aliens? They can have 1 amazing fade, or 1 amazing lerk, and win the whole game.
I don't know, though, how you can easily take pressure off the comm...
Title: Marine vs Alien wins
Post by: Niteowl on March 07, 2005, 05:03:07 PM: It's interesting that in a few small tweaks the devs have, imho, at least so far
-brought back epic games
-removed the one marine killling machine of dewm
-forced marines to once again stick together and cover and be scared! of leaving base alone.
Title: Marine vs Alien wins
Post by: Malevolent on March 07, 2005, 08:19:05 PM: Well, all the games I played to day the aliens won except for one. It seemed like the marines almost completely dominated that game. The game after the marines put up a pretty good fight. So it definitley is seeming like it is just everyone getting used to the new style of play.
Title: Marine vs Alien wins
Post by: Necrosis on March 08, 2005, 06:53:01 AM: We lost one alien game last night, dropped SC first and didn't protect the second hive. Thats where we failed.

Game dragged on for a good long while after that - marines teched up, still tried to siege the hive, and ended up finally walking in to finish it.

Pretty poor, if you ask me. I think the problem lies with marines still living in the last beta, where sieges were king. If you use a siege strat now, then you need to pray that the aliens slip up somewhere.
Title: Marine vs Alien wins
Post by: Doobie Dan on March 08, 2005, 10:28:01 AM: I think there needs to be MUCH more focus on putting pressure on hive 2 while it goes up if the aliens happened to go SC or DC (but no one goes DC first on LM anyway). I see a large pattern of once the aliens get MC, it's over.
Title: Marine vs Alien wins
Post by: 2_of_8 on March 08, 2005, 10:39:35 AM: True. If aliens have MC, and with the new spawn system, Marines have almost no chance of taking a hive down, since they'll be constantly pressured by the Aliens.
DCs first - I haven't seen that maybe once in the last week. DC has been moved to 2nd hive all the time now. The two most popular chamber orders now are:
S -> D -> M
M -> D -> S
I haven't seen either
D -> M -> S or
S -> M -> D
much; the first one is too damn overused and repetitive, while the last one makes for a very hard game for the aliens, unless they are very organized.
Title: Marine vs Alien wins
Post by: CryForMe on March 08, 2005, 10:48:01 AM: out of all the games ive seen so far, when the aliens have a coherent strategy, its a walk in the park for them. the big kicker is that if a rine is in SC range, he appears on SOF. a major strat shift that i've seen is for aliens to a.) drop sc first and b.) place sc's strategically instead of just dropping 3 in the first hive (i.e. drop a SC near common ninja spots in all 3 hives right off the bat so you can see if rines are trying to get the drop on a hive). i think all its gonna take is a higher degree of teamwork and maybe a little adaptive strategy on the part of comms to get the wins back up.
Title: Marine vs Alien wins
Post by: SlickWill on March 08, 2005, 01:18:55 PM: Most of my thoughts are in the thoughts on 3.0 thread. Jist is, marines must have perfect game or BIG alien screwup to win, while alines just need to not have a two hive lockdown and two rts (ie. chambers in a timely manner.) Not too much else. I am sooo disillusioned. Not please with this beta at all. I fervently hope that the games get better with time, but I don't think it will. At least not nearly to a point of balance.
Title: Marine vs Alien wins
Post by: lolfighter on March 08, 2005, 02:13:03 PM: I fervently hope that people won't judge this version before they've played it for a while. It's been tested and was supposed to be great, so let's give it a chance before we mark it as "sux."
Title: Marine vs Alien wins
Post by: Hesitation on March 08, 2005, 03:19:56 PM: I love it. Love it love it love it. I'm a big alien player, does it show? I think the marines just had it too cushy, and have gotten lazy.

In my opinion, old marines just had to follow waypoints, blast anything that moves, and build phase gates. Then take a nap while their base kills the enemy base and enemy players for them.

My only problem is still the observatory. I mean cmon, how many games have rines ever won WITHOUT an observatory? The obs's abilities are pretty much required just to survive this new game. A game without an obs is an easy alien win. I think it's become too central to the marine game, and I'd like it set back a little bit (just a LITTLE bit).
Title: Marine vs Alien wins
Post by: Legionnaired on March 08, 2005, 03:26:33 PM: The obs being the only saving grace is not cause for nerfing the obs.
Title: Marine vs Alien wins
Post by: 2_of_8 on March 08, 2005, 03:36:04 PM: Can you survive without RTs, Arms lab, armoury, IP, comm chair, phase gates?
Only "optional" structures I could think of are TFs, turrets, sieges, and proto lab.
Title: Marine vs Alien wins
Post by: Hesitation on March 08, 2005, 04:15:34 PM: Well, that may be true. If it's still lopsided in a few weeks time, I'd say the marines would need some other boost to reduce dependancy on the obs to win.
Title: Marine vs Alien wins
Post by: 2_of_8 on March 08, 2005, 04:18:16 PM: I find it extremely weird that even after being tested for a year or so, the game comes out unbalanced. They privately tested this game for a long time now. This leads me to believe that it's not the game that's unbalanced, but it's the players who aren't usde to the new version yet.
Title: Marine vs Alien wins
Post by: GrayDuck on March 08, 2005, 05:00:57 PM: Quote
I fervently hope that people won't judge this version before they've played it for a while. It's been tested and was supposed to be great, so let's give it a chance before we mark it as "sux."
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Quoted for emphasis.

Give it time.
Title: Marine vs Alien wins
Post by: SgtFury on March 09, 2005, 02:00:48 AM: One thing I would say is that on Lunixmonster the aliens had almost adapted to wining in b5 now in b6 they have an advantage and therefore are winning more. Once marines learn tactics to adjust to this (like the playtesters probably did) it will balance out more.
Title: Marine vs Alien wins
Post by: SwiftSpear on March 09, 2005, 04:05:55 AM: Quote
One thing I would say is that on Lunixmonster the aliens had almost adapted to wining in b5 now in b6 they have an advantage and therefore are winning more. Once marines learn tactics to adjust to this (like the playtesters probably did) it will balance out more.
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It probably will to some degree, but according to several playtesters the marine winloss ratio at the end of PB6 was still only about 1/4 (based on statisics from the servers)... General consensus was that it was playable to a balanced state however.
Title: Marine vs Alien wins
Post by: Necrosis on March 09, 2005, 10:29:54 AM: If players are still trying to shotgun snipe and siege down hives, thats probably where most of the grief lies.

In addition, hiding in dark vents and sniping passing skulks won't work anymore under the new flashlight.

As I see it, a lot of the marine "dirty tricks" have been nullified or toned down, and an awful lot of people had come to rely on these moves in order to give an edge. Now the tricks have been removed, they've had to fall back on being more intelligent and more skilled... kind of hard to adapt to if your strat consisted of getting close to a hive and shottysniping any alien while the sieges cleared it out for you.

I think we'll see a better change in marine play. More people able to use JPs, more use of catpacks. Not as many sieges and HA train wins. Mmmmmmm, balance.
Title: Marine vs Alien wins
Post by: Doobie Dan on March 09, 2005, 11:02:06 AM: Quote
True. If aliens have MC, and with the new spawn system, Marines have almost no chance of taking a hive down, since they'll be constantly pressured by the Aliens.
DCs first - I haven't seen that maybe once in the last week. DC has been moved to 2nd hive all the time now. The two most popular chamber orders now are:
S -> D -> M
M -> D -> S
I haven't seen either
D -> M -> S or
S -> M -> D
much; the first one is too damn overused and repetitive, while the last one makes for a very hard game for the aliens, unless they are very organized.
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I see S -> M -> D quite often now, and it works very well. If you go sensory first, I think it's more of a sacrifice to give up movements at the second hive. You really don't want to be in a situation where you have two hives and a third one going up without any movement chambers - it's just too hard to defend. The major weakness to this strat is the inability to take down turreted locations - for example double on Veil. If you go sensory first, make the next chamber choice depend on the marine strat. If they are fortifying an advance position, get defence to wear it down. If they are PG-rush happy, you NEED movement or your chances at 3 hives are pretty slim.
Title: Marine vs Alien wins
Post by: Necrosis on March 09, 2005, 12:45:23 PM: SMD works very well if the team is right.