Overly Chatty Penguins

The Ready Room => General => Topic started by: SuicidaL MonkeY on December 19, 2004, 01:57:56 PM

Title: Movement Start
Post by: SuicidaL MonkeY on December 19, 2004, 01:57:56 PM: More often i see MC's dropped at the start instead of the ritual DC always start. I wonder everyones thought on it, as i see others still wanting DC. Everyone knows defense chambers still have more reliability, but for a second hive just dropped under attack its helps ONE HEY HEY OF ALOT. Just wondering what everyone thinks about the MC starts, or what they like to see start instead ?
Title: Movement Start
Post by: CorvusX on December 19, 2004, 02:50:53 PM: MCs win. <3
Title: Movement Start
Post by: breakfastsausages on December 19, 2004, 03:21:18 PM: I credit friendlyfire for the mcs first being viable. The fact that the gorge who built the hive can hang around and spit it every few seconds gives a huge bonus for aliens to get to the key areas they need to defend in time to actually make a difference.. You really don't see this strategy with any reliability on non-ff servers because any marine team with half a brain will hold off attacking the unbuilt hive untill they have enough firepower in the area to guarantee success, which pretty much makes the mcs a waste of money.
Title: Movement Start
Post by: Dark on December 19, 2004, 03:25:42 PM: though gorge spit doesn't always make the hive flash red

but i am fine with mcs as a starting chamber instead of dcs just sc takes a more dedicated team to make it work
Title: Movement Start
Post by: Clashen on December 19, 2004, 04:16:14 PM: It's nice to see that pubs discover the power of MC first. Mah clan has been using it for ages and it makes the early Lerk pretty much unkillable and can often save you if you get a crappy startinghive.
Title: Movement Start
Post by: Isamil on December 19, 2004, 04:18:06 PM: MCs first rules for skulks, and as long as you get a second hive fairly soon fades can deal with it.
Title: Movement Start
Post by: TheAdj on December 19, 2004, 04:18:21 PM: DCs rely on fades to work, so if you do something that doensn't emphasis immediate fades MCs work just fine. Lerks are the choice for MC strats. DCs are really the least useful chamber except for fades and onos. If you focus on using lerks and skulks effectively, the other two chambers win out easily.
Title: Movement Start
Post by: Dark on December 19, 2004, 04:36:18 PM: as true as that is Adj it is hard to find people to agree on using any chamber other than dc on most pubs
Title: Movement Start
Post by: Mr.Ben on December 19, 2004, 04:44:42 PM: It depends on the players.
Title: Movement Start
Post by: Necrosis on December 19, 2004, 05:28:34 PM: All hail the MC.

Celerity is fun for aggressive skulks, rushes, and counterrushes.

Adren awesome for bitespammers, sporesuppression lerks, or healspammers.

Silence great for any ambush players.

Silence gets special mention because it really throws people off - most players are listening for the enemy more than anything else. NS is a pretty dark game so most players with average gamma is going to be rather shocked to be on the receiving end of bitespam from nowhere.

Second, MC means hive teleports, which is very VERY good for hive defence, and hive defence is certainly important when most marine players will blindly go for hive lockdowns. For an aggressive earlygame, MC wins. The problem is if you switch to the defensive, you'll get slaughtered.
Title: Movement Start
Post by: Malevolent on December 19, 2004, 06:50:42 PM: Like stated, movements work well for skulks. And being that skulks are the majority of what the players are, it's a good thing to get first. People just need to learn to utilize them better. It sounds like b6 will help with people becoming better with all of the chambers.
Title: Movement Start
Post by: Necrosis on December 19, 2004, 07:13:56 PM: Hopefully it'll even out the skill levels of the playerbase, which should make subsequent patches less major changes and more minor tweaks.

I think the more even the skill level becomes, the better the patches will be. Much MUCH easier to gauge changes based on a uniform skill level as opposed to a widely differing one.

Not that I'm saying thats the case at the moment, but I would say most of us have to agree that there's a fairly lethal skill curve at the moment.
Title: Movement Start
Post by: rad4Christ on December 19, 2004, 07:48:29 PM: To me, DC's are a crutch that we use b/c the aliens have to rely on that one fade to counter balance everything. With DC's and one good fade, aliens don't really have that much to worry about teamwork. With MC's, although personally I don't think the aliens have to come together all that much more, since it's a newer strat on the pub aliens tend to react faster, and respond to calls quickly, knowing it'll take a bit of work to make this work.

Overall, I like it, unless, there are viable reasons for another chamber.
Title: Movement Start
Post by: fatty on December 20, 2004, 12:53:05 AM: mcs in every cal match ftw.
Title: Movement Start
Post by: Malevolent on December 20, 2004, 06:41:45 AM: Also, mcs mean that the comm will usually have to get mt (if the skulks are using silence a lot). This is good for the aliens since it's 40 res he could of spent elsewhere.

EDIT: But then the marines make up for it with killing everything that moves. :p
Title: Movement Start
Post by: tankefugl (in a tent) on December 20, 2004, 07:04:55 AM: MCs in vents around the map FTW. Makes MC fading and lerking so much easier, since they can go back to hive for heal in no time. Or back up that building hive.
Title: Movement Start
Post by: Mr.Bill on December 20, 2004, 07:27:21 AM: I think sc, mc, dc, strats work great, any strat does, it just depends on the team, it always does. any mc strat could just be countered by a good marine team and what not.

But mcs help with ninja hives :ph34r:
Title: Movement Start
Post by: SwiftSpear on December 20, 2004, 11:49:54 PM: <3 Silence.

Almost always a confirmed kill unless the marines are traveling in # greater than two, also makes ambushing a breeze even without a dark corner to jump out of. No sound = no chance.
Title: Movement Start
Post by: Dark on December 21, 2004, 12:00:22 AM: well rines can always counter silence with an early MT upgrade by the cornmender

other that i would love to see some more mc first games ^_^
Title: Movement Start
Post by: Asal on December 21, 2004, 12:22:48 AM: Silence screws my aim, I can't hit a silenced skulk for some deranged reason.
If I'm marine, I hate movement first.

If I'm alien (read, if I'm gorge) I love it, because as soon as the second hive drops, it's defended. I am always able to get out of a hot spot (I'm a celerity whore) and it is, overall, tactically a better choice. The aliens thrive on manueverability and speed. Nothing is faster than pressing 'use'.

And for those wondering, yes my influx of posts means I'm gonna be playing a bit more.
Title: Movement Start
Post by: SwiftSpear on December 21, 2004, 01:36:38 AM: Quote
well rines can always counter silence with an early MT upgrade by the cornmender

other that i would love to see some more mc first games ^_^
[snapback]36856[/snapback]
Even so, celer is still a masocistic upgrade most of the time, even with rines that have MT. Allows for extreamly quick response times for res trouble and what not, as well as just generally making the skulk a whole bunch harder to hit.

Silence is absolutly brutal right up until MT goes up, and then celer takes over. MC is still an ironclad all around chamber.

Like mentioned before, its only downfall is that fades are compleatly and utterly dependent on DC, thus if you are going to go MC first, you better make sure your first priority is putting up and defending 2nd hive.
Title: Movement Start
Post by: Malevolent on December 21, 2004, 07:26:00 AM: Quote
And for those wondering, yes my influx of posts means I'm gonna be playing a bit more.
[snapback]36861[/snapback]
Yay, we can kill him when he gorges.
Title: Movement Start
Post by: SgtFury on December 21, 2004, 08:36:32 AM: To me it makes so much more sense mc first, especially since alot of marine tactics now rely on taking out the 2nd hive, before it is built. with mc first you can dfend it easier. If you get it right you get dcs a little bit after anyways.
Title: Movement Start
Post by: FireWater on December 21, 2004, 09:56:35 AM: Quote
More often i see MC's dropped at the start instead of the ritual DC always start. I wonder everyones thought on it, as i see others still wanting DC. Everyone knows defense chambers still have more reliability, but for a second hive just dropped under attack its helps ONE HEY HEY OF ALOT. Just wondering what everyone thinks about the MC starts, or what they like to see start instead ?
[snapback]36701[/snapback]

MC first a viable strategy if the alien team isn't so dependent on fades, AND the team can get can early hive up. Second hive DCs are crucial.

Movements first can allow silence to dominate until marines get MT. Forcing the marines to get MT can delay their arms lab tech a little bit so that when you get your second hive up, your fades should be able to dominate, theoretically.

first one to 50 res should put up the hive, and the MCs should be dropped as soon as possible.
Title: Movement Start
Post by: That Annoying Kid on December 21, 2004, 11:38:38 AM: I lurves me some MC first

esp with adj, and then I can go make a MC nearby a hotspot so I can heal the lerks and fade ~~constantly, making the gorge the DC :D~~
Title: Movement Start
Post by: confused! on December 23, 2004, 03:39:41 PM: the way i see MC is that if the hive and the chambers go down early its great. it allows the new hive to be defended easily and allows lower lifeorms to be more effective.

certain players can make the MC effective as a higher lifeform. However, to most fo us we rely very heavily on our dcs. there fore in a case where the aliens dont have enough map control to ge teh second hive up DCs are needed to give the fades a chance in the face of the marine team which by now has some serious shot gun action.

this si not to say tha mcs will be a handi cap in taking the second hive in the above situation as the movement rush can be killer. But, to turn the tide you have to have fades especailly as teh amrines reach higer tech levels as implied by the inability to get the second hive up.
Title: Movement Start
Post by: duherman on December 24, 2004, 11:43:04 AM: Anything is fine really. The thing is you need to know how to use it most effective.
Title: Movement Start
Post by: degamer106 on January 05, 2005, 12:10:12 PM: teamwork and coordination makes any strat possible -_-.
Title: Movement Start
Post by: SwiftSpear on January 05, 2005, 08:13:11 PM: Quote
teamwork and coordination makes any strat possible -_-.
[snapback]37995[/snapback]
Other than having a team with an acctual willingness to defend as skulks rather than suicide attack in waves, the only real teamwork needed for MC first is one player to drop the MCs and another player to save for hive. DC's are not so increadibly benificial unless you are planning to forgo second hive altogether in favor of early fades... Now that works good if you have some great fades on your team (you need at least 2) and they can effectively give your gorges some room to work in thier wake. But with FF on, MC>DC in any other situation.
Title: Movement Start
Post by: Diablus on January 05, 2005, 08:29:18 PM: I really dont mind any structure as a skulks, seeing how I dont waste 2 res on something just to be shot down across a hallway, or blasted in the face by a shotgun. Same goes for gorging back to skulk, though this will all change in b6 ^_^ I would rather type kill in consol, wait 30 seconds and in spawn que, then waste 2 res.

Though Movment has to be the best bet as the first chamber because of the Friendyfire deal.
Title: Movement Start
Post by: Mr.Ben on January 06, 2005, 02:31:25 PM: Not at all, MCs are only as effective as the players on your team and the marine commander.

I've had a hundred++ scrims with MCs and they're by no means the perfect chamber and can be easily countered by a competant commander. Early HMGs and dropping a few shotguns to your best shots early on are good ways to limit your early lerks effectiveness. HMGs wreak havoc againist fades that have to avoid damage. Every little scratch adds up as a fade so even just a few lmgs can be a threat, there's no backing up and healing round the corner.

If you're assualting a hive then you need to be careful. It's best to remove any MCs or other chambers like OCs from the hive room first. Then when you're ready fire a shot at the hive and get ready for the skulkies, when the aliens teleport you kill them, clog up the spawn queue and merrily go about your way. Just shoot the fade to scare him away, he simply can't hide on the hive and heal up like with DCS. He'll be forced to hide or run for the hive putting him firmly out of commision. Have one/two HMGs scare off any fades and shoot any spawning skulks whilst your shotgunners deal with the hive. Mines on the floor are also good ways to deal with the skulks if you just want to concentrate entirely on the hive.

Provided you get the hive down before they get a second chamber up then you're in good shape. Don't underestimate 1 hive aliens with 2 or possibly even 3 chambers from previous hives. The hive going up, even for 2 seconds can have a massive impact on the game. Half the importance of denying second hive is in getting it down BEFORE they get their second chamber up.
Title: Movement Start
Post by: Armageddon on January 08, 2005, 07:36:33 PM: It's possible to win with mcs as a starting chamber, but its difficult to work with, especially for higher life forms such as Fade or Onos, since they are basically the whole alien team and rely on upgrades that will allow them to kill marines quickly or last long enough to drive rines away from the hive. Dcs or Scs first are probably a better choice mainly because, well, dcs provide either carapace or quick hp recovery, and scs give the benefit of cloaking as well as everybody's favorite, focus.
Title: Movement Start
Post by: Necrosis on January 09, 2005, 11:48:33 AM: MC first I believe is a start that focuses on enhancing early game abilities - so Onos shouldn't be factored into it as a 1 hive Onos is either a very poor player or a last gasp attempt to claw back a win.

With MC first, aliens need to go on the offensive, and this is a GOOD thing. Silence can help new players ambush or get a free hit on the enemy, adren is excellent for lerk spam, celer is awesome for players with a bit of skill.

Of course, committing to MC first means you need to be CERTAIN someone is going to drop the hive so you can reap the benefit of the next chamber - DC being the "safe" choice and SC being good if the game is virtually won.

Where MC fails is when the aliens cluster in their hive or play very defensively, or at least this is how it has been in my experience.