Overly Chatty Penguins

The Ready Room => General => Topic started by: Niteowl on April 13, 2005, 01:50:08 PM

Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: Niteowl on April 13, 2005, 01:50:08 PM
So, why is it i make 3 or 4 Ips, spam shotties and welders and hmgs and bacons galore when the game is over? It's just instinct. Give the marines a few morale victories taking down some oni. And I don't _think_ i've ever said "JUST END IT NOW PLEASE". Because  I'm almost never willing to just lay down and let the aliens walk all over us. I might ask "what's the lull for?" or "Why aren't you attacking?". Because, gamewise, I really have no idea why. They have all the rts, we haven't been able to beat them back at all, and there is a 3 - 4 minute lull.

So yeah, that's my explanation for 'drawing it out' which I see more as 'giving the marines some fun after getting creamed'. It's not like I make massive farm.

On that side note, unless you (as in anyone reading this) are willing to drop your weapons and not shoot anything that comes in, try not to say "Just end it now please"; because 9/10, the same marines who say that are fighting tooth and nail to stay in the game.
Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: Diablus on April 13, 2005, 02:32:53 PM
Haha thats soo true, happens all the time

Marines: "END THE GAME FFS ALREADY"
Aliens : Um we would if each and every one of you didnt have level 3 HMGS and SHOTGUNS to not even give us a chance to rush in

Marines: "OMG U NUBS QUIT DRAWING IT OUT!!" *Continues to kill another 15 Onos, 5 Fades and a few lerks while still complaining that Aliens aren't ending it"
Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: Malevolent on April 13, 2005, 02:49:12 PM
If it's not over within a minute when you know you've lost, you almost have to say, "Just end it!" Come on. How big of a threat could level 3 HMGs/shotguns be? :p

The aliens could end it in a minute every game if they would all just go onos at once, and then go in at once (3 hives too with all chambers).
Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: Plaguebearer on April 13, 2005, 07:11:54 PM
What drives me up a wall is when the rines are trapped in MS, and all the aliens do is blink in/swipe kill/blink out  and/or  charge in/devour/run away   ....over and over for 10 minutes.

It makes me REALLY want to abuse my admin, you know?
Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: 2_of_8 on April 13, 2005, 07:33:07 PM
Well, I for one don't like dragging out games that are clearly already lost by one side. And by clearly, I mean: Marines having 1 node, aliens - 3 hives, all other nodes, tons of fades/onos, etc. Simple, Marines have no chance for a comeback. I usually expect such games to end with the Aliens just rushing the Marine base within 3-5 minutes after the last major event (failed PG rush, etc).
Too often, Aliens try to end the game, yet the Marines resist. Why? I fail to see the excitement in shooting a couple of bullets from LMG, dying, respawning, shooting some more bullets, humping the armoury a bit, shooting a couple of bullets again, maybe getting devoured.
And so on, for ~5-10 minutes... that really isn't what Natural Selection is about.

Of course, if most of the Marines are having fun while doing this - fine, let them have it. But I won't be one of them :)
Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: Cheez on April 13, 2005, 07:50:19 PM
Funny how the only maps i ever see this happen on lately are Tanith, Veil and sometimes eclipse. I'm starting to think it's more in the MS design than the game itself. Just a crazy theory.

Big emphasis on Tanith though...that MS is BUILT TO TURTLE  <3
Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: Manta on April 13, 2005, 08:08:07 PM
Eh, kind of. The problem with any attempt to turtle on tanith is that fades can just camp the hall, acidrocking the place. I'm not sure what the best turtle spot is, but any good turtle spot has to have convoluted exits so acid can't get in as easily.
Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: Malevolent on April 13, 2005, 08:39:55 PM
Yeah you have a point Cheez. Those are easy to defend, especially ns_tanith. The two entrances are small and the marines can be on an elevated platform in the back. Same goes for ns_eclipse but not really being elevated.

Marines really do end up doing it on most maps, it is just easier on those three.
Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: 2_of_8 on April 13, 2005, 09:16:02 PM
Caged has horrible wall/ceiling geometry, usually causing a death of an escaping alien.
Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: duherman on April 14, 2005, 07:52:11 AM
Yeah ns_caged is probaly the worst for aliens to try ending the game in.
Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: Mac on April 14, 2005, 11:30:36 AM
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Caged has horrible wall/ceiling geometry, usually causing a death of an escaping alien.
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Don't know what map it was, but I was running up a wall going for a vent, and along the entire wall just beneath the vent is a ledge that sticks out, making it difficult to just run up and in, and i got shot down while getting past that ledge. I still suck a lot as aliens, but still.

Also, as for dragging games out when a loss is obvious, I think it's better to at least try to stay alive, rather than f4'ing or something.
Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: Iconoclast on April 14, 2005, 11:43:53 AM
Recycle the arms lab, that way if you kill an onos: it's really a moral victory while also speeding up the end of the game.  v_v
Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: Goldy on April 14, 2005, 06:55:10 PM
There is no point for a comm to spam ip's after the game became 100% hopeless.  Aliens tend to kill all marines before attacking any structures. If the marines are spawning over and over it's really going to draw out the game, and serve no purpose but to produce a ton of dead and annoyed players.
Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: X-S-Z on April 14, 2005, 07:10:36 PM
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Recycle the arms lab, that way if you kill an onos: it's really a moral victory while also speeding up the end of the game.  v_v
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Quoted for emphasis.
Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: 2_of_8 on April 14, 2005, 07:12:23 PM
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There is no point for a comm to spam ip's after the game became 100% hopeless. Aliens tend to kill all marines before attacking any structures. If the marines are spawning over and over it's really going to draw out the game, and serve no purpose but to produce a ton of dead and annoyed players.
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I can safely say that this is one of the problems; it's incredibly easy to take out the IP/obs if all the marines are busy on some fade that's dancing around in the middle of the room.
Aliens should go for the vital structures first, after all marines are dead... I don't see why they would attack the armoury/proto lab/even arms lab before killing IP/obs.
Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: Manta on April 14, 2005, 07:24:47 PM
I really see a lack of gorges attacking the base at the endgame. Occasionally, I'll see one ballsy gorge run in by himself, bilebombing the base, only to get shot in the face. You only need one gorge. Just defend him well.

Unfortunately, all the aliens think it's a good idea to go fade and blink in, get a kill, blink out.
Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: Dead_Meat on April 14, 2005, 07:42:01 PM
Ussually when i see the aliens dragging the eng out its usually just one or two aliens attacking the base (usually a fade and skulk) then later another will join maybe an onos who runs in for the devour then out. then finally thier joined by others to finish the rines off. Now when marines kill a hive they always rush in with everyone screaming hive first. Aliens dont seem to touch a structure unless every marine is dead.
Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: Reckless on April 14, 2005, 09:34:38 PM
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I really see a lack of gorges attacking the base at the endgame. Occasionally, I'll see one ballsy gorge run in by himself, bilebombing the base, only to get shot in the face. You only need one gorge. Just defend him well.

Unfortunately, all the aliens think it's a good idea to go fade and blink in, get a kill, blink out.
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I love bilebombing things! It's my one true gorge-calling.

I don't know why...
Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: Necrosis on April 15, 2005, 01:09:16 PM
Running into a room with an OC bind is also fun.
Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: Doobie Dan on April 15, 2005, 02:16:05 PM
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What drives me up a wall is when the rines are trapped in MS, and all the aliens do is blink in/swipe kill/blink out  and/or  charge in/devour/run away   ....over and over for 10 minutes.

It makes me REALLY want to abuse my admin, you know?
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If the marines are turtling with multiple HMGs, that's usually all you can do without dying.  Sometimes you die even trying to do a hit and run.

I mean, if the marines are actually fighting back, they really don't have much of a right to complain that the game hasn't ended yet.
Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: Necrosis on April 15, 2005, 08:13:12 PM
Marines with HMGS?

Call the SKULK MISSILE.

Cara, celer, and SOF. Aim for the biggest cluster, go boom. Observe as marine base falls apart.

Make sure you've at least 1 onos or 2 fades hanging around, and once the scoreboard goes red, rush in and surgically hit structures. Then fall back, let the rines waste their res reserve, rinse and repeat.
Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: 2_of_8 on April 15, 2005, 08:26:48 PM
Here's when the problem appears, and makes itself most evident, at the least likely time.
The Aliens, thinking just as they were for the rest of the game, try to end the game by going in one at a time, maybe two; they get a few hits, and are forced to escape; they either do so, proceeding to repeat the procedure, or die during the escape and start complaining about Marines turtling and dragging it out, or something.
Teamwork is quite a useful thing when the Aliens are facing the entire Marine team in one room... ever heard of 8 Onos dying without killing all the marines + IPs + obs?
Me neither :)
Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: Necrosis on April 15, 2005, 11:44:00 PM
I remember that one rush on Nancy, a bit of inspired alien commandor work on my behalf.

"Guys, all Onos, rush in, devour a marine each, then gore down whatever they've built".


Worked pretty well, over half the marine team ended the game in an Onos stomach, the other half managed to escape their Onos and ended up gored instead.

It was the only way to get everyone into the room at the same time, people were fixated on trying to use Fades to beat HA HMG turtlers in Mother hive...


EDIT - Forgot to mention the sheer shock and collective WTF from the marine team... not every day 8 onos rush base and devour the team wholesale.. psychological warfare for the win.
Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: Mr.Bill on April 16, 2005, 08:38:33 PM
recycle everything and beacon to the DEATH. or try relocating. Easiest ways to end the game quickly, and by relocate, I mean beacon 3 times, get one marines outside their hive, drop a cc and recycle ALL of base and hope he lives long enough for ips. :-D
Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: Decimator on April 17, 2005, 11:52:38 AM
Actually, I commanded a game once on origin where we did kill an 8-onos rush.  We were holed up in biodome with full tech and beat multiple huge onos rushes.  Many onii died that game.  We finally lost when they mc rushed us and kept pouring in.
Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: 2_of_8 on April 17, 2005, 11:55:15 AM
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Actually, I commanded a game once on origin where we did kill an 8-onos rush.  We were holed up in biodome with full tech and beat multiple huge onos rushes.  Many onii died that game.  We finally lost when they mc rushed us and kept pouring in.
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Hahah... biodome. Origin has simply the worst hives for onoses ever.
Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: Guspaz on April 17, 2005, 09:36:09 PM
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They have all the rts, we haven't been able to beat them back at all, and there is a 3 - 4 minute lull.
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One would hope that this is because they are preparing for a co-ordinated assault from multiple vectors with strategic choices of classes for maximum effect (Groups of one onos, one or two lerks, and a gorge, for example).

Of course that's never the case :(
Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: Vitamin Lead on April 18, 2005, 06:53:14 PM
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Well, I for one don't like dragging out games that are clearly already lost by one side. And by clearly, I mean: Marines having 1 node, aliens - 3 hives, all other nodes, tons of fades/onos, etc. Simple, Marines have no chance for a comeback. I usually expect such games to end with the Aliens just rushing the Marine base within 3-5 minutes after the last major event (failed PG rush, etc).
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Actually, one game on Nothing, aliens were stomping the marines, and the comm Officer Conspicous, (one of my buds, and yes he mis-spells conspicous on purpose) handed out jetpacks and shotguns, and unbeknownst to the aliens, they rushed and killed a hive. From there, they proceeded to lock down the hive, and siege Via from Red Room, before we could get enough of a strike force. By the time we did, Via was down from about 5 sieges, and the onos outside got screwed by 4+ JP's with shotties. The game went downhill from there for the marines, and the aliens had no idea what happened. (The alien team didn't suck, as the marines losing showed, so don't jus say it's only becuase the aliens sucked.) As this shows, it the marines hold on and keep trying, the have a chance to win.

This was a classic endgame scenario in the marine base, they killed an Onos in MS, with two left alive elsewhere. The dead Onos gave them a chance to JP rush a hive. They definitely got lucky, but it was still a clean win for the Marines, even after almost getting wasted.

So comeback can happen, that's why it's worth it to keep playing. Besides, endgame is fun if you have big guns  :D .
Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: Goldy on April 19, 2005, 01:31:48 PM
One time the marines had a heavy train at our last hive, when all we had was skulks. A bunch of the skulks hit and killed their base, then we all took out the heavies at our hive. So yeah, it's never really over, but you need great teamwork to make such a comeback. And if you have that much teamwork to begin with you would probably never even get into the position where you had to make a comeback.
Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: Lightning Blue on April 19, 2005, 02:40:48 PM
Aye, it always amuses me to see idiot marines complaining about the aliens not ending the game but thier camped in base with fully upgraded weapons/armor and top tech...
Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: RangerAlpha on April 20, 2005, 04:22:32 PM
Just yesterday, i was playing hera, i was an onos, and we were killing marine start. i run back to find the missing marine (i hate people who hide)  I walk into processing, and hear *ping* 4 sieges start firing, no phase gate, just sieges.  They got 5 chambers, 4 of which were needed. that sucked.  5 more seconds and there wouldnt have been a hive to save.  Goes to show, camping marine start doesnt always work. they sometimes slip right past.  Then again, we only had 2 scs (we were all fades and onos, how could we drop chambers, lol)  Phase gates are noisy, sometimes its better not to build them...
Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: Malevolent on April 20, 2005, 08:51:44 PM
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Aye, it always amuses me to see idiot marines complaining about the aliens not ending the game but thier camped in base with fully upgraded weapons/armor and top tech...
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Huh? When does this so called you playing happen? :p You have to at least play a bit when 3.1 comes out.
Title: More lengthy explanation
Post by: 2_of_8 on April 20, 2005, 08:55:50 PM
He must been smurfing :ph34r: