Rad's encounter with Bars

[DruBo]

Owl's poll needs an "other" option.

[Dubbilex]

Exactly, we should just all be running around killing people, free from morality. Just like other animals.

[snapback]43513[/snapback]

I'm not sure if you're familiar with history, but do you recall the Crusades?  If there was ever a time where people ran around, killing each other, freed from undesirable morals yeah that was definitely it.

We are nothing more than what we are: Human.  Fortunately for us, we humans have the power to create our own damn future so that's not a problem.  The Hand of God did not incite the mass protests in Lebanon - people did.  Humans did.  

People are worth more than they know - nobody is a pawn in some cosmic game and that's the only fact.

[Necrosis]

You're a pawn on a universal scale, you're a slave to your past and doomed to a predictable future.



The Crusades might have been a barrel of laughs, but so were the Punic Wars, WW1, WW2, The Gulf War, the War on Terror, English Civil War, American Civil War, etc etc etc etc etc.

Fact, people will find whatever reason is most convenient at the time. Be it God, voices in their head, what their Leader says, or they just had a bad day.

[Malevolent]

Owl's poll needs an "other" option.

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I think every poll needs that basically.

[duherman]

I'm buddhist.

[Niteowl]

Exactly, we should just all be running around killing people, free from morality. Just like other animals.

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ESPECIALLY THE MEECES!!!!

[lolfighter]

[...]LF, you're right, God isn' up in heaven smiting people down when they say it, but at the same time, when you tell God to "damn it" when refering to the fact your food is cold, you're are asking the Creator of everything, the Master of nature, the King of Kings, to damn your food because it's not suitable to you. Seems a little much for cold food, eh? I know that's not the best example, but I hope you get what I'm trying to say.

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Oh, I get what you say. But I do not agree. The following situation is only all too common: I'm hungry or something, so I tell my buddy Jesper (or whoever's nearby) to "Go make me a sammich you lazy git," to which his inevitable reply is to laugh and tell me to "Go make it yourself you useless bastard." I consider my "request for damnation" to be nothing more than that.

By the way, I hope you don't mind this turning into a (remarkably civil) religious debate, since that seems to be what's happened. But if any of the readers have any "freak circumstances got me into jail for a while"-stories to tell, by all means, go ahead. Those tend to be entertaining.

[Dubbilex]

You're a pawn on a universal scale, you're a slave to your past and doomed to a predictable future.



The Crusades might have been a barrel of laughs, but so were the Punic Wars, WW1, WW2, The Gulf War, the War on Terror, English Civil War, American Civil War, etc etc etc etc etc.

Fact, people will find whatever reason is most convenient at the time. Be it God, voices in their head, what their Leader says, or they just had a bad day.

[snapback]43523[/snapback]

Do you honestly think that the Popes didn't believe they were  the Hand of God on Earth?  It's easy to look at it now, to say that they were exploiting the religious bandwagon for all it was worth, but that's only because hindsight is seldom anything but twenty-twenty.

People can be pretty mean; we all know that.  But it's the people themselves that are rotten - The Devil has no hand in it.  I never tried to say that people were wonderfully peaceful and thoughtful (of course it would be nice . . .), only that when they make war and do ugly things it is of their own volition rather than any ovearching force.

The religions of the world serve to unite large groups of people and then sink the no-man's-land between them. I trust you know of the terrible divides in, say, India between the Muslim population and the Hindu population? Religion is remarkable that way; that is, it can unite people of a like mind and utterly alienate those of an unlike mind to the point where they bring out the fists and tanks and bullets.

Religion is about conflict by its very nature.  People just don't need any more conflict.

[Necrosis]

Do you honestly think that the Popes didn't believe they were the Hand of God on Earth?

I fear you underestimate the corruption inherent to most organised religious systems. Or do you think Indulgences were a wholly moral idea?


Its funny, but religion is often just an excuse for hatred. Hatred that started with tit for tat theft of land, or differences of opinion. Most of the "religious" strife in the world boils down to pure human belligerence. Northern Ireland, Israel, India/Pakistan...... its got very little to do with religion. People just come to broad sweeping conclusions. Two neighbouring nations that hate each other? Must be religion. Two nations that are squabbling over the same patch of land? Must be religion. Two political groups that can't abide one another? Must be religion.

You know even if you took religion out of the equation, people would still find another excuse. Race, religion, caste, class, humans are always looking for ways to justify their hatred of the alien.

Furthermore, if religion worked as intended then 98% of the world's religions would TOLERATE each other, as their religion dictates. Turning the other cheek, letting people move along the wheel, honouring your guests. The remaining 2% would be fundamentalists and extremists, but such people have a shaky grasp on reality as it is.

Religion, race, caste.. they're not the reasons for war, but its the reason someone will give you, because these things are immutable, and thus "not their fault". God told me to, they're an inferior race, they're untouchables and pariahs. I'm just following orders.

Sadly, it will not change.

[Niteowl]

You know who I like to read?
John Hick

[esuna]

"Other" meaning Antagonistic.

[rad4Christ]

Might I recommend? Check out The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel, a recount of an athiestic journalist who retraced the steps that led him to faith, Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis, one of my favorite authors who, while trying to disprove the myth of Christianity, became a believer himself, or read transcripts of William Lane Craig here, where he is debating with leading atheists. Ravi Zacharias (http://www.rzim.org/) is also known as one of the leading apologetics of Christianity today, although I will admit I've yet to read any of it.

I will be willing to mail you a free copy of The Case For Christ if you'll really be interested, and also if you'd actually read it with an open mind. PM me for details.

[esuna]

I suppose i should actually make a proper post.

To be honest, i don't care if there's a God or not, it's not something i'm interested in, he / she has had no dealings with me, and i none with him/her, and i'm content with that.

But the whole realisation that everything's out of your hands, i find it a tad worrying that you needed to be spoken to by God to realise this. Any remote kind of knowledge of prisons and such would tell you that you're not getting out until you've been cleared or until they say you can leave, no question about that, so really, why did you need God to point this out to you?

And as for the blasphemy and taking his name in vain, i'm sorry, but lighten up. Nobody is actually saying these things as a means of shaking thier fist at God, nobody's intentionally being blasphemous or insulting. They're just saying it, that all. Some people take some things all to seriously, sure, God may be the most important thing in your life, i can respect that fact, that's your choice and your belief, but you have to realise there's a good number of people out there that don't have your belief and don't feel the need to censor their "blasphemy."

[Vinegar Ninja]

see now, I am OK with the bible, most of it is good teaching. I am cool with christ, as he was a wise man in the midst of innumeral idiocy, but I am against the organizational forming of religion. People use the religion as a crutch. When their life is crap they just lean on the faith rather than think of a way out of their current situation. I take credit for all my accomplishments. No god helped me in my getting to where I am now, only my own inteligence and help from those humans who love me. When I get into a bind and get out of it, I dont thank god for helping me, I thank myself for figuring out the ingenuity to solve any challenge that stands before me.
If there were a god, I would think that this is how he would want me to be, myself, not a mindless sheep of the flock.

[Necrosis]

Well thats sort of the point of the parable of the talents.

[Niteowl]

rad4Christ,Mar 16 2005, 10:35 AM]Might I recommend? Check out The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel, a recount of an athiestic journalist who retraced the steps that led him to faith, Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis, one of my favorite authors who, while trying to disprove the myth of Christianity, became a believer himself, or read transcripts of William Lane Craig here, where he is debating with leading atheists. Ravi Zacharias (http://www.rzim.org/) is also known as one of the leading apologetics of Christianity today, although I will admit I've yet to read any of it.

I will be willing to mail you a free copy of The Case For Christ if you'll really be interested, and also if you'd actually read it with an open mind. PM me for details.

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Historical Christ is a COMPLETELY different sack of meeces, and I have some fav authors for that. It's kinda old and tired for a topic, for me. I'm more interested in the hardcore theological debates. And I've read my fill of Lewis and Chesterton, but thanks for the offer.

By the by, are you going to be reading your children the Narnia series?

EDIT: I read through some CS Lewis again and some WL Craig. Both were equally unsatisfying and somewhat tangential to the main arguments and issues I have with any religion.

[SwiftSpear]

see now, I am OK with the bible, most of it is good teaching. I am cool with christ, as he was a wise man in the midst of innumeral idiocy, but I am against the organizational forming of religion. People use the religion as a crutch. When their life is crap they just lean on the faith rather than think of a way out of their current situation. I take credit for all my accomplishments. No god helped me in my getting to where I am now, only my own inteligence and help from those humans who love me. When I get into a bind and get out of it, I dont thank god for helping me, I thank myself for figuring out the ingenuity to solve any challenge that stands before me.
If there were a god, I would think that this is how he would want me to be, myself, not a mindless sheep of the flock.

[snapback]43623[/snapback]

A. Leaning on faith != not solving your problems

B. There isn't always a way out.  Leaning on faith just makes the incredibly brutal situations barable.

C. Peace through faith in times of torment > suicide

Historical Christ is a COMPLETELY different sack of meeces, and I have some fav authors for that. It's kinda old and tired for a topic, for me. I'm more interested in the hardcore theological debates. And I've read my fill of Lewis and Chesterton, but thanks for the offer.

By the by, are you going to be reading your children the Narnia series?

EDIT: I read through some CS Lewis again and some WL Craig. Both were equally unsatisfying and somewhat tangential to the main arguments and issues I have with any religion.

I tend to agree with you.  Alot of christian religious authors sort of lack dept and beliveablitly, and/or write with a style that seems to prioritize hashed and rehashed bilical stories and methods avoiding the lessons that life today is very much still teaching us.

I still kind of like Naria as a kids book though, it has a neat little story line that is good and safe, even if it lacking in depth.

[edit] <insert 600th post celebration here>

[Nooblet]

rad4Christ,Mar 15 2005, 06:15 PM]you never hear people shout "Muhammad, that HURT!" when they hit their toe, or "Buddha curse it all!"

Muhammad is God's prophet not a god so a Muslim whould still say "Goddamnit" if they so chose. Christianity and Muslim beliefs stemmed from the same branch.

Buddha is not a God but a Teacher and was only an "Enlightened One." Anyone can be a Buddha all one needs is to rediscover the Dharma by Enlightenment. The most popular Buddha we all know and see is The Buddha Gautama, Siddhartha Gautama, who claimed to be a teacher to guide those who chose to listen rather than a personal saviour.

I have been dableing in Buddhism so I DO know some of what I am talking about here. =P

[SwiftSpear]

rad4Christ,Mar 15 2005, 06:15 PM]you never hear people shout "Muhammad, that HURT!" when they hit their toe, or "Buddha curse it all!"

Muhammad is God's prophet not a god so a Muslim whould still say "Goddamnit" if they so chose. Christianity and Muslim beliefs stemmed from the same branch.

Buddha is not a God but a Teacher and was only an "Enlightened One." Anyone can be a Buddha all one needs is to rediscover the Dharma by Enlightenment. The most popular Buddha we all know and see is The Buddha Gautama, Siddhartha Gautama, who claimed to be a teacher to guide those who chose to listen rather than a personal saviour.

I have been dableing in Buddhism so I DO know some of what I am talking about here. =P

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I think I have heard people using curses about buddha before...  Although Noob is compleatly right here.

[Niteowl]

I would encourage ppl to curse buddha! Attachment to self or attributing divinity to him are things he fought against.