[...]@LB - if we don't find it to change balance at all, can we have another vote to return to FF(provided we turn it off)?
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I don't think you saw my post, since you posted just after I did, so I'll just repeat: I think that goes without saying.
Balance - I think there must be other ways of fixing it, and that's not to be done by server ops, but by the developers.
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Pssh. As if.
It's good except that aliens can attack their own unbuilt hive and MC to it. That's kinda lame and doesn't seem to be how the design was intended. People can argue it's done in matches, but that doesn't apply to LM. It would be cool if it could be set up so that aliens can't hurt their own hive.
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Think about it, 1 Marine rushes into a hive, being watched over by a gorge, gets medspammed, builds a pg. comm beacons = hive dead.
Now if that ever so happened when skulks rushed MS all the commander has to do is becon. Aliens dont have that and on some maps the hive distance from eachother is RIDICULOUS. 2 Hive Lockdowns would be a very common, EXTREMELY boring and standstill resulting in long, ridiculous games which would cause many aliens to quit. (which we obviously don't want)
Plus Skulks cant be guarding 1 hive, they have to be taking down rts, guarding the built hives, and making sure Marines do not advance until hive 2 is up. I think it definetly WAS meant to be put in game otherwise it would have been removed imo. And if all skulks/ fades were to all die in this rush because of the PG shoot down hive strategy, the hive would drop almost instantly before any other aliens can get there to defend it. Since Marines just have to beacon and instantly get a team of 7 to that location within 3 seconds, Aliens would have to be strict hard on guarding that building hive which then causes Marines to expand, and even attempt to fire down the built hive.
Movement chambers are meant to unbreak the chain bound to the Aliens. If LM didnt have the Movment rushes I can guarantee you Marines would be winning most of the games if played accordingly. hence why shooting down hive 2 -> then laming up the map with turret farms / elect / research every damn upgrade for 15 minutes THEN rush the hive or siege causes MANY players to lose intrest in the game and quitting.
At least Last Stands for Marines are fun :blink:
why not just make it so that FFing the alien hive, even to MC to it, is against the rules?
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Ahahahaha... that'll never work!
"I did it by accident!"
"Lame rule!"
etc...
I really doubt. Either completely remove FF, or completely leave it in.
Think about it, 1 Marine rushes into a hive, being watched over by a gorge, gets medspammed, builds a pg. comm beacons = hive dead.
Now if that ever so happened when skulks rushed MS all the commander has to do is becon. Aliens dont have that and on some maps the hive distance from eachother is RIDICULOUS. 2 Hive Lockdowns would be a very common, EXTREMELY boring and standstill resulting in long, ridiculous games which would cause many aliens to quit. (which we obviously don't want)
Plus Skulks cant be guarding 1 hive, they have to be taking down rts, guarding the built hives, and making sure Marines do not advance until hive 2 is up. I think it definetly WAS meant to be put in game otherwise it would have been removed imo. And if all skulks/ fades were to all die in this rush because of the PG shoot down hive strategy, the hive would drop almost instantly before any other aliens can get there to defend it. Since Marines just have to beacon and instantly get a team of 7 to that location within 3 seconds, Aliens would have to be strict hard on guarding that building hive which then causes Marines to expand, and even attempt to fire down the built hive.
Movement chambers are meant to unbreak the chain bound to the Aliens. If LM didnt have the Movment rushes I can guarantee you Marines would be winning most of the games if played accordingly. hence why shooting down hive 2 -> then laming up the map with turret farms / elect / research every damn upgrade for 15 minutes THEN rush the hive or siege causes MANY players to lose intrest in the game and quitting.
At least Last Stands for Marines are fun :blink:
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Ok, yes a hive can be easyly taken down with a ninja pg and a few sgs without FF on. Now MCs wont be the most sought after chamber, sens can be used more now to find the ninjas and stop them.
Now about skulks not being able to attack rts and defend a hive at the same time thats bs. 2-3 skulks for staying in the hive area, 1-2 out attacking nodes systematically and a gorge staying in hive to alert anyone how hard is it to use teamwork. Also OCs will come more into play now for defending a unbuilt hive.
Now the lameing end game marine crap is like a "OMG WE WON" thing just imagine if the marines won more they wouldnt need to do that we could also set a rule about prolonging the end game.
TBH the only way we're going to find out how much of a crutch MC is, is by changing FF for a "test period", perhaps 1 weekend. Thats two whole days, ideally including a reg night, and then analysing the stats from there.
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I dont agree here we need a longer period to test this out. 2 days is not enough to adjust to different stats and it changes to much of the play style we are used to. I agree with a 1-2 week period.
If I recall correctly FF is one of the staples of TLM since "back in the day"
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I'm sorry but that is far from the truth. FF has been on for a minority of the time the server has been around.
FF is a part of The Lunixmonster. Wether or not you love or hate it is a different matter. You'd be talking about getting rid of something that's been there a long time. LM is all about the things that make a game a game. Not quitting, not laming, keeping your shots and bites to the enemy, it's all about skill, not spraying everything. I say it stays
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Umm, no. In Lunixmonster's history, FF has not been on for very long, and it was OFF much longer than it was on. It is most certainly NOT a "part" of Lunixmonster, just a holdover from a previous beta with unbalanced grenades that people got used to.
No offence to newer players, but somehow I feel like the only people voting in this poll should be those who have played on Lunixmonster long enough to have both played with it on, AND remember what it was like when it was off. People who joined the server just a few months ago have only seen one side of the issue, so they're not exactly objective.
EDIT: BTW, my definition of "been around long enough" would mean people who have played on Lunixmonster, by one name or another, since before 2004 or 2005. Maybe include people from the first half of 2004, but I can't honestly remember when FF was turned on.
Let me put it this way, if you played on the server when it was Evolutionarily Challenged's Nano Gridlock, you've been around long enough :p
I originally played this server because FF rocks. You have to aim, you have to pick targets, you cannot spam. This to me mean sa lot more fun. Go FF.
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FF does rock, and makes you watch where you shoot. It HAS made me a better player overall. Prevents (or at least limits) nade spams and such as well, which is a good thing.
Dunno why people whine about MC rushes. 'rines have beacon, which is MUCH more effective imo. Who says people will actually MC-rush in, anyway? Most of the time they're unorganized to the point where it fails.
I vote that FF stays on.
I originally played this server because FF rocks. You have to aim, you have to pick targets, you cannot spam. This to me mean sa lot more fun. Go FF.
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Dunno why people whine about MC rushes. 'rines have beacon, which is MUCH more effective imo. Who says people will actually MC-rush in, anyway? Most of the time they're unorganized to the point where it fails.
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Well, a simple argument to this is that beacon will involve the whole team in returning to base + phasing, while MCing can be selective to a few players - still allowing a few to remain in key positions defending or whatever.
And there is a chance that the Aliens will take down the phase gate before the Marines can phase through, while Mcing in... taking down a hive takes a bit more time, and there's no "feeding machine" mechanism in place :D
Personally I'd turn it off, it's very evident marines are getting bummed on this server and need all the help they can get.
The problem isnt FF guys and gals. The root of the problem is this: Everyone has seen rine wins, even if seldom, since 3.0/3.01/3.02 came out. Everyone has pitched reasons back and forth for why rines lose all the time. Everyone has come to the conclusion that rines actually win some when they work as a cohesive team and have a decent comm. Yet, in every game I see, half the rine team rambos off and does their own thing, generally before someone can even get in the CC. If you're going to figure that teamwork is the solution to winning, then you have to exercise it. Dont whine about "no teamwork" then go be a rambo every time you can. It leads to things like this, where innocent little FF gets blamed for rines losing.
Just for spec, I'm going to count the number of FF deaths I personally see on LM over the next week, because I'd be willing to bet that it's under 100. I've been on servers that play without FF and then decide to turn it on "for fun" once in a while. It's horrendous. Theyre so used to being able to shoot through teammates that half the team winds up dead the first time one skulk rushes a group of rines.
but enough from me.
/end rant.
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You are partially right. I have seen a good number of games in which no matter how good they play (even how stacked the teams are in the 'rines favor), they still lose. There is definitely something wrong with that.
When speaking of terms of FF affecting the game, it has nothing to do with how many people are killed by friendly fire. The number of people that are killed by friendly fire will be very small. What does matter is how many people get hurt from friendly fire and die because of the friendly fire damage. That is what makes a huge impact. A skulk's job will be much easier if a marine is damaged a bit, and a lot of times, your health will be down to 85 or so even if you haven't been attacked by a skulk yourself. Have a skulk or two rush three marines, and I'm almost positive everyone will have damage even if they weren't directly attacked by an alien.