Author Topic: General Commander Strategy  (Read 4518 times)

June 22, 2004, 02:55:28 PM
Read 4518 times

Mr.Ben

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Draft 2: 27/06/04
Spell checked; Added communication; Added final word; Revised sections to make it easier to read.


LM is a very lucky server, a lot of servers are filled with people who will never command however here we have a number who are willing to get in the chair and give it a go and I salute you for doing so even though sometimes my actions could be mistaken for thinking I’m not grateful. (It means I don't have to comm after all)

Anyway, this post is here to hopefully be useful for the comms on this server, some have the potential to be very, very good and hopefully even some of the more experienced comms like rad or niteowl can learn something or add something to it which I didn't know.

Start of the round:

One of the most important things that a commander should do but what a lot forget to do is listening for what hive they have. That's actually a misleading term, when you listen for what hive they have you're not actually listening for noise from a hive as they emit any, rather from the resource tower or the sound of spawning or moving aliens. Do not spend too long on this though, if you cannot tell from sound try and go from where the skulks are. For example: if you're on a eclipse and inside the first 10-20 seconds you run into a number of skulks at triad there is a good chance hive is eclipse.

Knowing this is key and you'll find that your approach to the round is very different if you don't know it. It's not knowing the actual hive location that is so important though, it's what you can tell learn about what the aliens are doing/planning from knowing first hive. So what do you learn from knowing hive location?

- You can tell me what second hive aliens will be going for. EG ayumi, if starting hive is ae35 then pressure hive will not be their second hive, rather hamasaki will. It's simply too much distance for the aliens to travel to be able to defend a building hive, which is why they won't drop it. (Unless they have MC)
- You can probably guess what res nodes they'll drop. Example of ayumi and ae35 again. You can expect aliens to drop gorges hideout, eastern entrance and either cold turn or hamasaki. I'll jump between these nodes listening for the sound of gestating/building/resource node
- You can tell that a hive like pressure will be pretty empty so as long as you have pressure on the aliens you'll only need one guy to be down there to cap res nodes.

You should be looking to have marines move out to these nodes as fast as possible. Getting alien nodes down and teching as much as possible is your sole job in the first few minutes. If you're pressuring and taking out alien res nodes then obviously that means slower res, later fades, later second hive, more time for you to tech before you get yourself into the more interesting situations those two things bring. Try and get marines into second hive as soon as possible too, 9/10 there is an alien res node there so you'll want to get that down but also just the fact you have marines in these locations unsettles the aliens and forces them to group and rush you or have no second hive. Another advantage of all this is that the aliens are constantly occupied meaning your res nodes are safer, the guys you have running around capping are safer and your base is less likely to find a roaming skulk in it.

It is very important that you get Armour 1 as soon as possible. Armour 1 is much more useful than weapons 1 as I’m sure most of you know so the sooner you get it, the better. At the start the recommended buildings to drop are: IP, armory, arms lab. Getting your marines to build your armory first means then your arms lab means you get a1 an extra 10 seconds earlier, doesn't sound like much but if you're a marine and a skulk turns up and kills you and THEN you get A1 it's not much use. Also, your IP shouldn't be needed in the time it takes you to get a1 going, if people die in that small time frame then they better have a good reason.

Teching:

Advanced armory, after A1 is one of the most important things to upgrade to. I like to have an advanced armory by 5-6 minutes MAX meaning I have HMGs when fades turn up. HMGs are so much better at dealing with fades than shotguns are and they're obviously a skulk-slaughtering machine.

Phase tech HAS to be done by 5 minutes, by about 5 minutes you can expect aliens to have a second hive going up and it's 10x harder to take down a hive without phase gates. Also by 5 minutes you should have weapons 1 and weapons 2 done or very close to done, if you're swimming in res get weapons 3 going as soon as possible. Weapons 3 is so much more useful than armour2.

Motion tracking is a very useful upgrade but it costs a lot of res and if fades do turn up then weapons 2 or an advanced armory is FAR more useful. It isn't something I’d recommended rushing unless you're confident with your marines and that the aliens are sub par.

Time Frame:

0-2 minutes: Get rts near base, get a1, get w1 started, have a squad at a danger/pressure point i.e. cargo on tanith or hive they'll put up. Get advanced armory on 2 minutes if possible.
2-4 minutes: Hit their nodes and make sure yours don't go down, pressure as much as possible during this. Get weapons 2 at about 3 minutes.
4-5 minutes: Fades and second hive turn up now. Be prepared. Try and make sure you have their nodes down by now and prepare for a hive assault.

That is the time frame you can expect things to happen in, if they have a lot of res nodes then of course it speeds up and of course, if you're getting their res down then 5 minutes never happens or if it does, it only delays the inevitable.

Base layout:

-Feel hypocritically saying this but remember to mine the IP!  
-Try and place the IP as far away from the CC as possible. Sometimes all you have to do is just get out the chair yourself and kill the skulk, with plenty of distance between you and him hopefully you'll get him. If you have mines a good chance he'll jump onto one if he reacts.
-Two choices with base layout, spread out so they can't eat lots at once or hide behind things but no defense or close together with mines, your decision, I spread out because half the time I don't bother with mines.
-Two ips as far away from each other as possible. It's much harder for one skulk to kill everything that way without someone spawning other side of the room.

Know the map:

This is one of the most important things ever and it's so obvious, you need to know the map, not just location names but also the best routes to take, vents, and most importantly: danger zones. An example of a danger zone would be somewhere like cargo on tanith or power sub junction in eclipse. You need to know about these locations where you can expect marines to in trouble and get attacked. When you see marines in these areas you need to press e, press s and hold the marines hand through that area. Keeping marines alive with a few med packs in these areas gives you such a better chance. Great, a marine got all the way to cargo but if he dies because you were busy somewhere else then he accomplishes nothing.

Prioritizing:

It's important that you prioritize your troops, this really links in with the above point, a marine outside cargo is more important than a marine building a res node in west access corridor. Turret farming base is the last thing on your priority list, if I see a comm drop a turret in base when I request a med and I die I will vote to eject you.

Listening to your marines:

Your marines are your best source of information, they often know things before you do and will tell you, don't ignore them and what they say. Also, don't ignore their requests; they want a med pack? GIVE THEM A MEDPACK. There is no excuse for not medding unless it's a total dire straights situation that even a med pack couldn't solve. (Marine with no ammo vs a full hp fade etc) Keeping your marines is so important; a living marine can kill skulks, can kill RTs and can pressure aliens.

A marine is worth two res, just because they are free to spawn doesn't mean you can let them die whenever. Keep your marines alive, watch them through danger zones, med pack them when they request and when you see they're in trouble and they will not only love you but also cause so much hassle. It's disheartens for aliens too, how often do you see "bloody medspam" after you've kept a marine alive with a few meds? Often. KEEP YOUR MARINES ALIVE EARLY AND YOU WILL FIND IT SO MUCH EASIER

Don't just med your marines when they request, linking back to prioritizing and knowing danger areas, watch them through these areas and be ready to med them when needed. 90% of the time when I comm my screen is on my marines who are pressuring, watching them, dropping them meds and ammo when they're in a fight.

Communication:

Okay, so you're now lissening to your marines, this is good but communication is a two way street. I don't think i can stress enough the importance of communicating back with them. Marines feel much more comfortable when they know what the comm is thinking, knowing that you have a gameplan rather than just going with the flow. Tell your marines where you want them, what you want to see happening, what you're planning on doing doing etc etc.

This is one of the reasons why i think a microphone is a must for commanders, you simply can't communicate as well with typing and also be doing all the other tasks that need doing. Simply talking at all isn't acceptable. I've found from experience that marines are more likely follow orders from a commander with a microphone, who knows why.

One last thing:

Squad 5 is the best use it. Not only does it sound cool but marines can just smell victory when they're in it, when I squad 5 marines a lot of the time you get some over the mic going "I'M SQUAD 5, LETS KICK ALIEN BOOTY" and I think that marines realise you might know what you're doing because squad 5 isn't something newer comms know about.

Final note:

I hope that you find this useful and that people can learn something from it, stay tuned for updates to this post or other threads by me.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2004, 06:58:04 AM by Mr.Ben »

<3 BenjamiN/Benny/MrBen - Washed up clanner, ex-contributor and forum troll.
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June 22, 2004, 03:06:27 PM
Reply #1

Dark

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very nice guide there mr.ben ^_^
Quote
er.. which doohickey is the capacitor? and not a FLUX capacitor right?!? cuz then i'd have to put it in my Dolorian..
[/b]

June 22, 2004, 03:11:22 PM
Reply #2

holy_devil

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like the guide, needs a spellcheck though( lissening to your marines, proitising?)

at the minutes part, put minutes after every number to make it less confusing

other than the above, great guide, i use a lot of the stuff in it and may change some things i do becuase of this :D

June 22, 2004, 03:19:24 PM
Reply #3

Path

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Nice, some well done basics for commanding. Didn't seem all that long as I was reading it though, but looking back... yikes.  :D
</Path>

Commanding is like playing StarCraft, only the units curse at you when you lose.
Anything is a weapon if you swing it right.

June 22, 2004, 03:26:55 PM
Reply #4

BobTheJanitor

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What can I do to get over the urge to just give up as opposed to putting the effort into shouting at marines to get to waypoints? When I comm, everyone scatters, and while I don't mind a few people running to the first RT, running to the hive/double/a random vent isn't going to win the game for anyone. I suffer from a lack of commrage that hampers my comm game.

Lunixmonster: Banning the NS community one smacktard at a time. -lolfighter
there are a lot of aaaa...mmmmm.... "HAPPY" pirates on this ship. -GrayDuck

June 22, 2004, 03:46:52 PM
Reply #5

Mr.Ben

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Well you have a mic, bob and a good understanding of the game so you're already half way to being a good comm. I noticed when you commed on caged though you were too go with the flow and it was a bit "err okay" "umm sure go there" and very groupy waypoints. Try more specific waypoints like "Ben go sewer" "HD go stab monitoring" "everyone else push dbl apart from niteowl, you stay and build base"

Giving people specific orders like that gives you a good chance of people following them, if someone tells me to go somewhere specific then i'll do it, everyone will. Constantly give your marines guidance rather than just being like "err whatever" because in those situations everyone will just run around aimlessly.

HD: i'll fix the spellings mistakes, it's a bit late and my proof reading was pretty lax.

Glad people are liking it though, i think i may go into a bit more detail of specific maps kind of like what rad is doing. *muses*
« Last Edit: June 22, 2004, 04:26:29 PM by Mr.Ben »

<3 BenjamiN/Benny/MrBen - Washed up clanner, ex-contributor and forum troll.
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June 22, 2004, 04:56:38 PM
Reply #6

BobTheJanitor

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Yes, it's my personality coming through. In general I'm much more of a go with the flow and criticize after the fact sort of guy than a take charge and do things right kind of guy. Maybe I should take assertiveness classes and then comm.  :p


Edit: This is the 1337est post I've ever made.

<---
« Last Edit: June 22, 2004, 04:57:05 PM by BobTheJanitor »

Lunixmonster: Banning the NS community one smacktard at a time. -lolfighter
there are a lot of aaaa...mmmmm.... "HAPPY" pirates on this ship. -GrayDuck

June 23, 2004, 09:25:39 AM
Reply #7

rad4Christ

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Great guide, Mr.Ben. Any new comms should really try to apply these tactics and you'll be successful. The great thing about LM is that experienced marines are always willing to help the new comm adjust (like Bob's loving remarks "The Arms lab is lonely" to remind you to upgrade). The only discrepancy I have is the requirement for upgraded armory. Honestly, I hardly ever upgrade it. I woud say watch the game. If you know you've pressured the aliens to two nodes and only one hive, and have a good deal of map control, then push other upgrades such as Motion Tracking or W3/A2. If you are having a tougher battle, then Adv. Armory is needed earlier.

In addendum, this is a guide on N-S.org I wrote. It deals more with basics for comms, not necessarily and strat. Using the basic tips in it and the strategy here, you should become a strong commander. Also, once you get the hang of commanding don't be afraid to try different strats!

PUB Commander Strats on N-S.org
tim
Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important. CS Lewis

SheenaYanai
: why do i have to be a stone? i dont want to be a stone... i want to do some harm.... can i be a exploding stone at least?

June 24, 2004, 10:25:29 AM
Reply #8

EmperorPenguin

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One of the things that attracted me to LM right away was its outstanding commander quality.  Having so many good comms around does make it a little intimidating for the newb comms (i.e. me) out there who don't want to screw up.

Do you guys tend to get frustrated with newb comms?  I've played a long time and know the maps and the strats, but the interface and the pressure to keep things under control can be overwhelming.

Not to mention its hard to get practice because every pub tends to have marine stackers, so I'm alien more often that not.
"What is it that makes a complete stranger dive into an icy river to save a solid gold baby?  Maybe we'll never know."

June 24, 2004, 12:01:56 PM
Reply #9

BobTheJanitor

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Feel free to jump in when some good regulars are on. Just tell us that you're a bit rusty at it and we'll be happy to give you any helpful hints you might need. With a good enough team, you hardly have to tell them anything, just wait for them to run and cap RTs for you, keep getting upgrades for them, and drop them a PG and sieges when they get to the hives.   :D

Lunixmonster: Banning the NS community one smacktard at a time. -lolfighter
there are a lot of aaaa...mmmmm.... "HAPPY" pirates on this ship. -GrayDuck

June 24, 2004, 04:03:19 PM
Reply #10

Dark

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like bob said most regs will help out a new/rusty com if you just ask and don't sit in the chair doing nothing and not talking.
Quote
er.. which doohickey is the capacitor? and not a FLUX capacitor right?!? cuz then i'd have to put it in my Dolorian..
[/b]

June 24, 2004, 11:16:31 PM
Reply #11

EmperorPenguin

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Well that is good to hear, I have my other skills down, but I never really got good practice as a comm.  Hopefully I can build those skills up and join the rank of good LM comms.  Perhaps, if I'm lucky, I'll be shining Rad's boots one day!
"What is it that makes a complete stranger dive into an icy river to save a solid gold baby?  Maybe we'll never know."

June 27, 2004, 06:57:46 AM
Reply #12

Mr.Ben

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Slight update, see top of first post for details.

<3 BenjamiN/Benny/MrBen - Washed up clanner, ex-contributor and forum troll.
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June 28, 2004, 04:13:51 PM
Reply #13

Mr.Ben

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http://mrben.thezazi.net/gubbins/demos.zip

I've uploaded some demos from a recent clan match which i think could be helpful, shows what i mean by medding to keep marines alive, will give you an idea of good places to push marines and what i spend a good chunk of my time in the chair doing. Unfortunately you can't hear me speak, i'm on ventrillo but you can follow my orders by watching marines on the mini map.

I hope they're helpful. The demos are ben2 and bob2, don't ask about the names, there are also alien demos (watch me get blown up as a fade by about 3 mines) in there too which you can feel free to watch. I uploaded them for my clan to watch but i'm too lazy to put them in a seperate zip and take up more of my webspace.

Hope you find them useful.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2004, 04:15:16 PM by Mr.Ben »

<3 BenjamiN/Benny/MrBen - Washed up clanner, ex-contributor and forum troll.
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July 22, 2004, 11:01:55 PM
Reply #14

FireWater

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The key to commanding is knowing what it is that you can do to help win the game.
I know that sounds kind of stupid, but I see a lot of commanders not doing this so I'll give it a whirl.

There are 3 things that I've notice can help you win the game on top of killing the aliens themselves, not only is it important to do them, but you must usually do 2 or more at the sametime.

1.  Capping RTs/Recapping.

Marine RTs aren't designed to last the whole game (only if you electrify, but those go down to fades).  Its important to always have people constantly trying to cap you nodes, even when you attack.  Never send all your marines to do anything, spread them out and cap, and try not to have more than 3 people cap a node, because you are losing extremely valuabe time, and more importantly, ground.  The faster you move the less time the aliens have to react and get good posistioning.  You are going to lose nodes, it happens, just don't forget about recapping.

2.  Destroying Enemy RTs.

The aliens really do not have the luxury of going "punch for punch" with regards to RTs.  Take these suckers down as early as possible, cripple their res, and you can deny the most important unit in the alien arsenal, the Fade.  Destroying RTs also delays everything, which is not to be overlooked.  It is extremely important to deny their res, because as it stands the alien economy is already crap, if they are reduced to 1 RT, you can pretty much delay their fades by about 1:00-2:00; but this is also dependent on RFK.  Slice those towers down for an easier time, and do it EARLY.  Sometimes you can even catch a gorge evolving if you move quick enough.

3.  Attack the Enemy Base.

This is not to imply a game winning attack, but it can be.  A simple distraction, or a little bit of pressure on the hive can free up your other marines to cap/destroy RTs.  The most important thing to remember when attacking is that every attack does not have to end the game.  Frequent, but decisive attacks on the enemy make them get uncomfortable, which only helps the marines.  You can sometimes destroy some chambers, or maybe catch a skulk evolving.  Even if you don't even hit the hive that much, it makes a GREAT distraction.

Those are the 3 things you have to know what to do properly in order to win the game.  If you can do more than one at a time successfully, you will WIN most of the time, if you can do 3/3 at the same time, the aliens will NOT win, I personally guarentee that.

The trick is being able to manage all 3 things, which is the most difficult part of NS imho.


I hope this helps.
Bant!

July 23, 2004, 03:38:28 AM
Reply #15

tankefugl (in a tent)

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Quote
watch me get blown up as a fade by about 3 mines
If you've seen my demos, you'd notice that I hit you point blank with 2 shotgun shells at the same time ;)

It was a good game. Well played.

And a very good comm post.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2004, 03:39:15 AM by tankefugl (in a tent) »

July 23, 2004, 11:17:51 PM
Reply #16

fatty

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i must have missed this thread.. i just watched those, they were good games. i loved the "i'm a mine magnet"... BOOM.

but i am curious as to why you would not group your arms lab and obs in squads 1 & 2, if you put every marine in 5 right at the start?

July 24, 2004, 12:38:36 AM
Reply #17

Dirty Harry Potter

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another thing when knowing about what the starter hive is.
If the starter hive is one of the "outher" hives,(there's 1 middle hives, and two around it), then if you can take the middle hive, you're usually in a quite good situation, this is sorta like the WW2 Blitz tactic/divide and conquer, because now they have to get the hive on the other side of the map, which means that reinforcements(when you take the hive down) is hard to come by. However keep in mind that if they get that other hive up, the first hive you locked down willl be very hard to defend.

If they have the middle hive, then well.... haven't totally worked that one out yet xD, here you can't really do blitzkrieg. Edit: supposedly you could try and go both ways, and isolating the middle hive, and keeping the skulks busy at two fronts.

/auther note, i am a nubcaek, follow this "hint" at your own risk :p.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2004, 12:40:25 AM by Dirty Harry Potter »

this is the .44 Wand, the most powerful wand in the world, so did I fire 5 or 6 fireballs? Now you got to ask yourself one question pal, do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk?

July 24, 2004, 07:04:07 AM
Reply #18

lolfighter

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Nubcaek indeed. :p

Keep in mind that my advice stems from 2.01, so I'm an oldcaek. Mouldy and dusty and half-eaten by maggots.
If they have the middle hive and you try and hold both the outer ones, you'll invariably lose one of them. The aliens will concentrate their efforts on one hive, they well know that they can win the game without a third hive. If you divide your strength, you halve your strength. Rather, take one hive, then push towards the middle hive to keep the aliens preoccupied with defense.

July 24, 2004, 09:07:08 AM
Reply #19

Dirty Harry Potter

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i have a confirm, you can easily go and split up your army and thus get a lot of nodes, but it's probably voicecomm required, a bit more micromanagent you see :p. The confirm is that i just did it on Veil, i split my team up into 2, took all the nodes in the outer rims, then took the hives. then afterwards i began to focus on double, sieged it out, then i lost it to an onos(that's a weak point of this strat, on this particular map the aliens can just take double, and thus get higher lifeforms if you are unlucky), but we pushed on Cargo and took it and the onos down.

this is the .44 Wand, the most powerful wand in the world, so did I fire 5 or 6 fireballs? Now you got to ask yourself one question pal, do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk?