Overly Chatty Penguins
The Ready Room => General => Topic started by: BobTheJanitor on January 03, 2004, 08:54:12 PM
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I see several comms lately using the 'bonsaibase' strategy, namely building a TF, electrifying it, and then building everything around that one TF to avoid skulks chewing the base up while the marines are out. I'm wondering what others think of this idea. I don't particularly mind it when it's used just to protect a few really important things. Say, the IPs. The problem I have with it is when everything gets crammed into one teeeeeeeny space and I end up having to duck jump over half the base just to get to the armory, only to get telefragged because the comm built another IP right next to said armory.
When I comm, I usually tend to build things far apart -- especially the armory away from the IPs -- because I know how aggravating it can be negotiating and defending a base that's designed to fit in a closet. I rely on a turret or two (mostly for the 'sentry firing' warning) and maybe a single base guard for base defense and don't mess with any tricky electrified TF defending everything strategy. What do others think? Good strategy or horrible annoyance?
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Hmm, well when I comm I do build the TF and put the IPs and Armory around it. I do try and make the IPs on the very outside though. I might also squeeze an Observatory in the back, if it fits. The rest of the stuff is placed so there's more room. Also, on an Hive that is captured or important location that has a PG and RT (like Pipleline), I electrify the RT and place the PG right next to it (but almost every single person does this).
EDIT: If a Hive doesn't have a RT in it, I'll just electrify the TF and put the PG by it. :D
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Personally i think it's annoying , If he/she was a good comm , they will know how to defend their base without worrying about their marines getting telefragged just to get ammo,etc,etc.
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This setup is very annoying when I am a marine, as I have to hop over everything and manuever every which way to get to anything, and it makes it easier for skulks to get in a kill as the marines are distracted before the offender gets zapped. Although its a perfect setup when I'm Onos, as everything I need to worry about is nicely crammed into one little space. I can be goring the arms lab one moment, then a marine spawns in, I turn a couple degrees to get the kill in, then go back to the armory.
I can understand dropping IPs right next to an electrified tfac, and maybe the armory on the other side, but it should be common practice for ocmmanders to assign at least one marine as base guard. In most games it really isn't worth the frustration and annoyance to have everything so cramped; If you're gonna do it anyway though, perhaps consider dropping one tfac to protect the IPs and Armory while making another one to protect the other structures.
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i've done semi bonsai setups, which is IPs, PGs, and Ocs near the RTs or TFs.
but i dont make those cramped up bases, since i too hate them as rine. i remember that some guy got stuck in a 'playground', he was a HA too, then i came to his rescue and put myself in his place - cant really waste a HA like that.
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I like the Obs, IPs, and the arms lab right next to the TF, but the armory goes a distance away just for that very reason; telefrags.
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I think it's a lamer tactic, and the ironic thing is, almost every time I see a bonsai base, it's when I'm ripping it to pieces, because for some reason every time they bonsaibase they LOSE. Probably because it's such a craptacular 'strategy'.
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i find 3 turrets are much more effective for base D than elect, imho.
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I've seen bonsaibases done right, and I've seen them done horribly, horribly wrong. I'll have to take a look around and see what's causing it the next time I see a bonsaibase that's easy to negotiate.
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doesn't anyone use mines?
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i'm a electrifying comm, so i need that tf. first 3 minutes of the game i only have 2 ips, and an electrified tf. without that ele'd tf, my base would be defenseless. But after that, i spread everything out, because if that lone skulk has enough time to come into your base and start chomping on your armory and obs, then its a sign that you're not pushing them hard enough, and that your most likely dead, and that stuffing your base into an area of 2m^2 isn't going to help it any further.
Mines are also not quite that good.
Armory (20, 25 res i think) + mines (10 res) gives you a quick 30 - 35 res defense against skulks. However, then you have armory humping which will kill the teamwork of the whole game. I find that once i build an armory, my team hardly listen to "PHASE THROUGH!" and "SAVE DOUBLE RES!". The only reason i build an armory at all is to dispense shotguns, and get armslab and obs.
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No armory eh? That's an interesting strategy. Doesn't being unable to get upgrades and having to waste 2 res every time your team runs out of ammo and not being able to get a proto lab hurt a bit?
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who needs ammo when you can die? :D! rarely do i give ammopacks in the beginning. They get thier objectives done (mainly get res, defend until elec'd), and thats all i ask of them, staying alive isn't one of them D:.
besides, the reduced humpage is a godsend for fast res rush.
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How the hell am I expected to defend an RT without any ammo? Baby, I burn through those two puny lmg clips faster than a horde of cops through a doughnut outlet. 's what keeps me alive and turns the nasty critters into gooey stuff that sticks to my boots. Girl, you better give me my armoury!
Ok, not building an armory right off the bat is fine with me. But by the time I've respawned a few times, I want to be able to grab a little ammo before heading out again. I am now reasonably capable of holding my own against skulks - I have an almost 90% success rate against the kind that come jumping at you down hallways (for comparison: Statistically, that means I generate 10-30 res for my team before I die). Getting my previously subpar aim up to snuff has been a hard time, so now I want the ammo to take advantage of that. Nothing annoys me more than a comm saying "nya-nya, no ammo for you!". I just can't hold my own against skulks with only a knife.
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it doesn't matter either way to me, there is always 1 thing out of the range, usaly the proto lab, :) or the command chair muhaha
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but i dont make those cramped up bases, since i too hate them as rine. i remember that some guy got stuck in a 'playground', he was a HA too, then i came to his rescue and put myself in his place - cant really waste a HA like that.
haha, thanks DHP, I was kinda stuck in my playpen, guess I just needed a human stepstool ;)
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good.
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good.
Can you elaborate?
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Bottom line: wastes time, makes you look stupid, and is impossible in 3.0
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Bottom line: wastes time, makes you look stupid, and is impossible in 3.0
HAH!! i can look stupid all by myself thank you very much!! i don't need bonsaibase stupid looking of the making appearance hax!!!
er. no. wait..
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Latest thing I heard on 3.0 (clanners/consties care to elaborate?) is that buildings have a slight no-build zone around them to prevent bonsaibasing. However, electified buildings have had their elec-range increased to make the elec defense still possible without creating a playground for marines to spawn into. Yipee!
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Its true, however the electricity dosen't cover EVERYTHINF like in 2.0
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Its good if done right, its perfect for eclipse, put the TF ontop of the comm chair, IP's on the sides, armory in front (free for humpage) all the upgrades go in the back, with maybe one or two turrets by the time the aliens get 2 hives (I dont want them to get in the back and munch everything
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The problem I have with it is when everything gets crammed into one teeeeeeeny space and I end up having to duck jump over half the base just to get to the armory, only to get telefragged because the comm built another IP right next to said armory.
That is really the only qualms I have with that strategy. But when done correctly, it really doesn't get in the way at all, the comm just has to keep building placement in mind...
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Its true, however the electricity dosen't cover EVERYTHINF like in 2.0
Like? (Hopefully phase gates)
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If you wanted to sure, Just plop down the PG, then the TF. The TF can't be near it but the electricirty range is large enough to cover.
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If you wanted to sure, Just plop down the PG, then the TF. The TF can't be near it but the electricirty range is large enough to cover.
Woops missed the 'in 2.0'... is there anything that can no longer be covered in 3.0?
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I see several comms lately using the 'bonsaibase' strategy, namely building a TF, electrifying it, and then building everything around that one TF to avoid skulks chewing the base up while the marines are out. I'm wondering what others think of this idea. I don't particularly mind it when it's used just to protect a few really important things. Say, the IPs. The problem I have with it is when everything gets crammed into one teeeeeeeny space and I end up having to duck jump over half the base just to get to the armory, only to get telefragged because the comm built another IP right next to said armory.
When I comm, I usually tend to build things far apart -- especially the armory away from the IPs -- because I know how aggravating it can be negotiating and defending a base that's designed to fit in a closet. I rely on a turret or two (mostly for the 'sentry firing' warning) and maybe a single base guard for base defense and don't mess with any tricky electrified TF defending everything strategy. What do others think? Good strategy or horrible annoyance?
I do this everytime I play as Comm.
You will have no choice but to build apart in NS3.0 as each structure now requires you to space em out (electrical range incresed though). I know what you mean about a cramped base I have seen some awful designed ones, however it's a LOT easyer to defend when it's compact. Having said that you will almost always need at least 1 siege there as too many a time have it witnessed a gorge running into base and dropping 5 ocs which is as we all know is not fun for spawning marines.
TBH i'd rather have an elecy protection then a Turret farm at the begining of the game. The key to a good base defense is knowing what time to start laying turrets down. Usually for me it's when I see my first Fade.
Personally I think it's a better defense then wasting res on turret farms... well works best for my style of comming.
~Pete~
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I alternate between TF in base and mines based on competency of team. If I know my team well enough to know their skill, only Ip's armory, arms lab and one pack of mines will suffice. If I don't know my team, I TF and elec and pray we get the nodes to cover the loss of res. I can win or lose either way, and I try not to place telefragging buildings near high traffic (armory).
I personally hate TF and turrets, only dropping one (if I have a good team) when I need ot elec RT guarding phase gate. I usualy build the necessary Tf by and RT and elec the RT, since it has more health.
However, as I type this I thought of something I'm gonna try. If you have to elec something in base, build the TF BESIDE the RT in base and ELEC THE RT. Then you have more room around the rt to drop structures. Now this will only work on some maps (bast comes to mind, IF you don't relocate to aft or atmos), and you may not be able to drop IP's by it, but I think it's worth a try...
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I hate mined bases as a marine ever since this:
I'm in a vent as a skulk and I hear the characteristic sound of mines being dropped. I look out and there's 10 mines around their base in a neat little line. Then all 5 marines either gather a couple clips of ammo or move to finish building the second IP. I hopped out and sat on a mine and killed them all.
(Dubbilex was one)
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Bonzai bases do save res on turrets and mines, sure the elect cost 30 but its better to have 7 marines on the field besides 6
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Best way to use mines:
Spread them apart, around buildings, but in such a way that a skulk can't get to a building without wall walking (which 90% never think to do).
Mines are NOT complete base defense, nothing is, but a good comm can hop out once mines are detonated and finish any resistance.
Mines are a deteral. If aliens find elec TF, they leave base alone. If they find unelec TF with turrets, they find the blindspot. They run in, see no TF, then blow up and wonder why, they stay away because of mines. Once mines blow, you replace them ONCE, and when that skulk sees the mines again, he'll either
A ) Slowly navigate the mines, which means he should be found quickly as a good marine team is moving and dying in the field actively, so the respawner will shoot him.
B ) He'll think it's not worth the time to navigate and head out.
If you are using mines, ALWAYS bind your IP's to a squad (or other key buildings), then you'll see them flashing up top when under attack and have a faster response.
Last point, if your marines are too busy humping the armory to see the incoming skulk, they deserve to go boom. If you hear/see a skulk, MOVE AWAY FROM BUILDINGS. If you hear fellow marines shooting in base, MOVE AWAY FROM BUILDINGS.
Thank you for your time. Class dismissed.
PS. I like it when I see a TF in base, I know the marines are now behind on res and upgrades. When I see unelec TF with turrets, I'm ecstatic, because I know there's a blindspot somewhere (my fav is the arms lab, yum).
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rad4Christ,Jan 11 2004, 12:44 AM] and when that skulk sees the mines again, he'll either
A ) Slowly navigate the mines, which means he should be found quickly as a good marine team is moving and dying in the field actively, so the respawner will shoot him.
B ) He'll think it's not worth the time to navigate and head out.
C ) Climb the wall, go across the ceiling, and drop onto the top of his target, then sit on a mine when the commander gets out ;)
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rad4Christ,Jan 11 2004, 12:44 AM]
If you are using mines, ALWAYS bind your IP's to a squad (or other key buildings), then you'll see them flashing up top when under attack and have a faster response.
that whole post had really good points. but this one quote i've never heard before. good idea.
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rad4Christ,Jan 11 2004, 12:44 AM] and when that skulk sees the mines again, he'll either
A ) Slowly navigate the mines, which means he should be found quickly as a good marine team is moving and dying in the field actively, so the respawner will shoot him.
B ) He'll think it's not worth the time to navigate and head out.
C ) Climb the wall, go across the ceiling, and drop onto the top of his target, then sit on a mine when the commander gets out ;)
Spread them apart, around buildings, but in such a way that a skulk can't get to a building without wall walking (which 90% never think to do).
Most people don't think. I mean how many skulks do you see find ladders or go the walking route avoiding vents? On tanith, which is the easiest to avoid mines, I RARELY see an alien wall walk to a building....