Overly Chatty Penguins

The Ready Room => Off Topic => Topic started by: Reasa on January 01, 2005, 11:26:14 PM

Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Reasa on January 01, 2005, 11:26:14 PM
Since this is an NS community I think we should have a topic pertaining to the Natural Selection web site, or rather the lack of one.

Christmas has come and gone, and while I'm certainly happy they didn't put the site back up on Christmas day, as that seems a bit...tacky...New Years would have been fine, new site, new year, makes a wonderful connotation.

I just think it's a little annoying that they keep missing self set "deadlines" and then they don't give us any info.

Don't get me wrong I fully support the NS team and their efforts; if I didn't care I wouldn’t have made this topic. However they aren't EA games or some other huge company who has grown into such a morass that they can't keep their supporters updated.

Your thoughts?
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Vinegar Ninja on January 01, 2005, 11:31:15 PM
monkies
thats my thoughts.
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: 2_of_8 on January 01, 2005, 11:38:03 PM
I can understand how you people can feel right now, but the developers are people too. Maybe they're vacationing? Or spending time with the family?
Also, even though updates to the site are nice: what would you want, an up-to-date site on 1.04, or b6 out with news lagging behind from pre-beta days? So what if they take a long time to update the site. I'd rather have a new version of NS to play with :)
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: GrayDuck on January 02, 2005, 12:35:01 AM
How difficult would it be to simply update the flipping site.  OK - something went wrong, they said it'd be down 2 days, its 2 months now and we've gotten ONE update.  The least they can do write a little something.  Even the loyalist NS fan is going to lose interest real fast.
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Asal on January 02, 2005, 02:14:29 AM
Yeah, when I stop checking the site for updates, it tends to become fairly obvious that they have lost a lot of enthusiastic followers.  As a rule, I tend to be obsessive about things like that....
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: bacon_flaps on January 02, 2005, 03:47:18 AM
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How difficult would it be to simply update the flipping site.  OK - something went wrong, they said it'd be down 2 days, its 2 months now and we've gotten ONE update.  The least they can do write a little something.  Only the fan with an addiction equivalent to that of a heroin junkie is going to lose interest real fast.
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Fixed ;D

I could care less where the damn site is as long as they're actually DOING something.
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Isamil on January 02, 2005, 09:20:29 AM
Grayduck they updated it a few weeks ago
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Dubbilex on January 02, 2005, 09:26:13 AM
I figure the hardcore forumites will be loyal and that's a good thing.  A smaller community is always better, in my opinion.  

And plus I'm pretty excited to see the newness.
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: lolfighter on January 02, 2005, 09:28:54 AM
I'll be back as soon as I find out it's up. But somebody will have to tell me, or it may be up for weeks before I notice. Then again, I guess I'll catch wind of it through the grapevine.
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: devicenull on January 02, 2005, 10:03:16 AM
How difficult is it to set up one of the IPB news scripts, and give us a post once in awhile saying what's happened since the last update.  The changelogs from 1.0->1.1 were nice
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: 2_of_8 on January 02, 2005, 10:09:22 AM
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A smaller community is always better, in my opinion.
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Well that's really not what Flayra is thinking, since he's starting his own company and making the game (or some other game) retail and all, then he'd want a larger community so he is more known and makes more money.
I think that was severily run-on.
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Diablus on January 02, 2005, 10:56:27 AM
Well one way your going to grow your community by "1 game" so far is to keep the hardcore fans, who reccomend the games to their friends / others, and so on and so on. Keeping your big fans would be logical to update to keep the fans excited. It doesnt take to long to write alittle something, im sure their lives arent THAT busy that they dont have 2-3 minutes to update the "growing" community.
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Dubbilex on January 02, 2005, 11:02:45 AM
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Quote
A smaller community is always better, in my opinion.
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Well that's really not what Flayra is thinking, since he's starting his own company and making the game (or some other game) retail and all, then he'd want a larger community so he is more known and makes more money.
I think that was severily run-on.
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Of course Flayra does not want a smaller community; however it will be a byproduct of the current state of Natural Selection.  Obviously he will not sell Natural-Selection to say, valve (like CounterStrike and DoD have been) because that is not the way he does things.  I reckon that his first release under Unknown Worlds will be relatively small in scale perhaps something available for order from the website.  But hey - perhaps Flayra will snag a great publishing deal (if they even exist anymore) and will go global overnight.  

But Jesus, I hope not.

Also realize that Flay is mostly a figurehead now - he has the final say in everything but does not deal with the inner workings of the mod anymore (big fish in a small pond and all that).  He has said that NS will never become retail; we can see that he has some interest in keeping the old community together and does not wish to 'sell us out' for that cash that is probably being waved in front of his nose.  We'll hope.
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: esuna on January 02, 2005, 12:07:48 PM
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How difficult is it to set up one of the IPB news scripts, and give us a post once in awhile saying what's happened since the last update.  The changelogs from 1.0->1.1 were nice
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The thing is, they're entirely integrating the site, the forums, the icon databases (CM, PT icons, etc) and god knows whatever else into one big site, it's by no means a small feat.

Add also that rather than just starting afresh with all of this, they're also transferring the epic sized forums database to a new server, and are integrating the existing community into the new setup.

The site was done, and working fine (CM's got a chance to test out the site months and months ago), so i very much doubt that any delays or problems were at all expected, it's all new issues that have cropped up as and when they happen.

Ontop of any bugs, errors, problems or whatever that have occurred during the implementation of the new site, it's also just been christmas and new years, they have families too, they have friends as well, and just because they're not catering for your every need 24/7, doesn't mean they're lazy or incompetant. And yet another issue, they no longer have a dedicated web developer, so all the issues with the site are being tackled by Flayra et al, as WELL as working on the new version and playtesting.



Be patient, the forums will return, the site will be back, yes they missed a deadline, but really, you're acting like a bunch of smack addicts. Go outside, meet up with friends, play NS, go on IRC, anything, just quit whining about the forums.
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Necrosis on January 02, 2005, 01:03:24 PM
It IS Christmas, most people are with their families or on holidays or enjoying one of the few times of the year where its effectively legal to take a 2 week holiday and not end up backlogged when you return to the office.

Hell I haven't even gamed over Christmas, because i've had so much free time that I can clean up some models, do a bit of writing, finally watch LotR back to back, etc etc etc.

Just a bad time of year for expecting people to do "office work". I for one think this might be helpful to the NS community, as we could lose some of the griefers or people who don't really understand what NS is about anymore.

We shall soon find out, I guess.
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: GrayDuck on January 02, 2005, 01:50:35 PM
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Grayduck they updated it a few weeks ago
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And that was the ONE update I was speaking of.
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: duherman on January 02, 2005, 04:18:47 PM
I'm sure this update to the site will be worth it all. As someone else said, you can't expect someone doing office work during the holidays.
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Dark on January 02, 2005, 06:54:28 PM
eh well they all aren't as into making the mod as they were when it was freshly released but hey at least they did give us hours and hours of enjoyment.

i for one do hope to see beta 6 and the website soon but i'm not going to hold my breath
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Crispy on January 03, 2005, 06:10:26 AM
It doesn't take more than 5 minutes to put up a Christmas or New Year's message.

Considering how much time and effort we put into NS as part of our free-time, you'd think that just a Chrimbo or 2005 update, simply a greeting for those who care, wouldn't be too much trouble at all. It takes one team member to do it (two if you assume that the person writing it needs someone else to update the website for him) and overall it couldn't involve more than 15 minutes work.

Instead they've neglected to do this and even I, who during the first few months was checking the site (well no, all three: NS.org, NS.com and UW.com) everyday, frequently thrice daily, have stopped regularly checking and have found something else to get involved in (Citadel Utopia Mod). When the website does go back up I doubt I'll be contributing as much as I had been (I&S, Modelling, Mapping, FanFiction, Off-Topic) because I won't have time. You can't just make a club and then close it for two months, expecting everyone who used to take a few or more hours out of their week to frequent it to resume a routine that was "postphoned" for 60 days.

Personally I think it's very bad marketing judgement, very bad PR judgement and overall very bad judgement to neglect the most important part of a game, it's players.
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Loke The Sleek Peruvian on January 03, 2005, 06:15:38 AM
I agree with Crispy, it doesn't take a lot to update the frontpage. And I don't check the site anymore as much as I did when it first went down.

Also, we will no longer be the NS community, we will be the UWE community! :(
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: esuna on January 03, 2005, 06:38:32 AM
I, for one, will be boycotting the NS site and Forums because they didn't wish me a merry Christmas and a happy new year.
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Dubbilex on January 03, 2005, 06:56:03 AM
What are you talking about, brit?  I snagged this exclusive screencap this very morning:

Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: esuna on January 03, 2005, 07:14:53 AM
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What are you talking about, brit?  I snagged this exclusive screencap this very morning:
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See? No happy new year! THEY SUCK!

BOYCOTT NS!
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: That Annoying Kid on January 03, 2005, 10:41:12 AM
ololololololol, that was good


but yeah, I for one was skeptic when it went from 2 days, to 2 weeks, to two months...

more info wouldn't hurt, but I've waited for 1.04 --> 2.0 so I can wait for anything.
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Diablus on January 03, 2005, 02:27:44 PM
sure theyre prob busy with their personal lives and such. But when they miss a personal deadline, they should at least notify the public what happened. Even if its a blantant lie, some news is better than no news
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Necrosis on January 03, 2005, 03:37:23 PM
Lets just come back to reality for a second - if they updated with "Happy Christmas to all our loyal fans" then all the "loyal fans" would go into apoplexy because they were only wished a happy christmas and not told about the pending release.

Sometimes its better just to say nothing at all?
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Reasa on January 03, 2005, 03:51:35 PM
No need to say "Merry Christmas" or any of that junk, they have personal lives of course and I don't expect them to spending much time working over the holidays.

However the Christmas Holidays are over and it's time for an update, I will be very disappointed if they don't post one before the end of this week.

Also they set the "around Christmas" deadline for themselves why set a deadline you can't meet? Hell they said they release the new site then, not just another update, so one couldn’t hurt just to let us know what’s going on.

With the release of HL2 and all its mods coming out I don’t want to see NS fading into obscurity.
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Dirty Harry Potter on January 03, 2005, 04:04:23 PM
i just want to add that there is a difference between deadline and expected point of completion.

anyway...the site will be back when the site will be back, and saying that they should post stuff before that happens won't really do anything :p
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: GrayDuck on January 03, 2005, 04:21:40 PM
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i just want to add that there is a difference between deadline and expected point of completion.

anyway...the site will be back when the site will be back, and saying that they should post stuff before that happens won't really do anything :p
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I think more than anything it isn't that they missed their deadline, or if that isn't considered a deadline, the date they said would be 'close' to when the consties could play test.... it's more of them taking for freaking ever and keeping everyone in the dark.  As Crispy was saying, it doesn't take that long to update a web site.  It needn’t be anything elaborate, just SOMETHING to keep us coming back and to let us know that we're not forgotten.
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: bacon_flaps on January 03, 2005, 04:33:17 PM
Do you really need your hand to be held and be led by your nose to know that they actually are working?  If so, have more faith in the team.  They've done so much and now just because a website is late, and we don't know any or all of the possible reasons such as a designer's dog was sick and they had to take it to the vet and then the very next day another dev's computer got a virus erasing a couple day's work and also setting him back, and and and and LIFE HAPPENS, that everyone thinks the mod is going to die.  Wow.
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: DruBo on January 03, 2005, 05:45:10 PM
I'm a PT. I have access to the UWE site.

It's not ready yet. SQL errors out the wazoo and sometimes it makes the server lag out.

When it's ready, it'll be open to the public. You can be sure of that.
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: SwiftSpear on January 03, 2005, 07:16:00 PM
Poor NS website... We miss thee!  :(
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: lolfighter on January 04, 2005, 04:36:39 AM
Maybe they could've left ns.org running until the UWE site was ready?
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: DiscoZombie on January 04, 2005, 08:43:04 AM
yeah... hell, why don't they stick ns.org back up right now? :> after all I thought the only reason they took it down was because the new, improved forum was allegedly going right up?
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Uranium - 235 on January 04, 2005, 11:49:18 AM
Esuna - Flayra needs to stop PTing then. Maybe instead of :Ding the game more he can get the site fixed first.
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Mr.Bill on January 04, 2005, 12:36:53 PM
I never checked the ns site, ever. I always found the best source of info (and also the most unreliable at time :) ) was the irc, I heard what I see in irc chans, I idle in so of what I'd think most likely to spout any major news, and check those every couple of minutes (I dont like the red on irc, so I check them constently just to get rid of it :) ). I dot really mind the site down, as long as b6 is being worked on. if it is, Im happy. If It's not, well... whats being mad about it going to do?

Neutral = teh win
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Dubbilex on January 04, 2005, 03:08:58 PM
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Esuna - Flayra needs to stop PTing then. Maybe instead of :Ding the game more he can get the site fixed first.
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REMEMBER:  b6>forums

I can absolutely guarantee that if Flayra was putting all his efforts towards the website there would be an equal number of people who would whine that he's letting the mod die. To all the people bleating that NS is withering away: let Flayra do what Flayra does best.  If you're not willing to even do that then why the hell are you all still here anyways?

It makes me angry when people think that Flayra owes them anything :(
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Diablus on January 04, 2005, 04:39:53 PM
It's not Flayra's fault, Anyone think of the CODERS and people WHO RUN THE FORUMS/SITE (unless Flayra works on all 3)

They need to be on top of their game as well. Flayra may be the big boss but im sure he has quite a few people who have specific jobs of running the site, and do the whole NS gameplay deal theyre at fault the most. (and if he doesn't, he should get his ass in gear and move each person to a specific part of the NS dev team so they can concentrate on 1 specific topic / thing So things "in theory" would run smoother and be much more organized)
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: rad4Christ on January 05, 2005, 08:53:19 AM
Fear not, the site is available to Consti's right now for bug testing, and so far I've had not the first problem. I even found my old UBB account when we moved over the the newer forums LAST time. Now if I can only get the email changed on it...

Anyway,  the site looks good, and the forums work fine. That, and a new announcement says that the Consti PT is right around the bend, so keep holding on, it's coming.
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Legionnaired on January 05, 2005, 09:26:19 AM
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Fear not, the site is available to Consti's right now for bug testing, and so far I've had not the first problem. I even found my old UBB account when we moved over the the newer forums LAST time. Now if I can only get the email changed on it...

Anyway,  the site looks good, and the forums work fine. That, and a new announcement says that the Consti PT is right around the bend, so keep holding on, it's coming.
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The forums are awesome now, what with only the people that PT or payed to see them being allowed in. It's like the old days, before release. Just one big happy family.
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Athena on January 05, 2005, 12:30:16 PM
Along with the multiple "OMG WHAR IS CONSTI ICON?!1" threads. :p

People are still finding bugs here and there, but Flayra worked really hard the last few days to get through everything.
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Reasa on January 05, 2005, 01:27:45 PM
Edit.

 :ph34r:
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Sandrock on January 05, 2005, 06:44:21 PM
I haven't received my consti email, and I stopped receiving updates about the consti program many moons ago.
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: That Annoying Kid on January 06, 2005, 09:04:50 AM
you need to bug flayra then  <3
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Loke The Sleek Peruvian on January 06, 2005, 08:37:58 PM
OMG!!!11

They changed my name in the forums!

From "Loke The Sleek Peruvian" i'm now known as "Loke The Sleek Peruv"....

So I need suggestions for a new name... :help:  Helpful ones...
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: SwiftSpear on January 06, 2005, 09:16:27 PM
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OMG!!!11

They changed my name in the forums!

From "Loke The Sleek Peruvian" i'm now known as "Loke The Sleek Peruv"....

So I need suggestions for a new name... :help:  Helpful ones...
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could you not just pull the spaces out of it? or add some 1337 to abreviate words (obviously not literal 1337 since numbers aren't allowed)
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Anarki3x6 on January 06, 2005, 10:07:02 PM
im AnarkiThreeXSix on the ns forums... no offense but limiting it to 1 number in your name is SOOOO dumb.
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: SwiftSpear on January 07, 2005, 12:53:00 AM
It's to prevent every second new user from tacking a 69 at the end of thier name because they want to be funny...  I don't know, but to me that makes sense, NS is so much more of a comunity then your average forum...
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Malevolent on January 07, 2005, 04:06:57 AM
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im AnarkiThreeXSix on the ns forums... no offense but limiting it to 1 number in your name is SOOOO dumb.
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You can get it changed though, I think. It talks about doing that on the front page of UWE.
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Anarki3x6 on January 07, 2005, 06:07:34 AM
no, their new rules are only 1 number per name.. to stop 1337 speak -_-
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Legionnaired on January 07, 2005, 09:22:55 AM
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OMG!!!11

They changed my name in the forums!

From "Loke The Sleek Peruvian" i'm now known as "Loke The Sleek Peruv"....

So I need suggestions for a new name... :help:  Helpful ones...
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Loke; Sleek Peruvian

Sleek Loke

Loke, The Sleek

The Sleek Loke

Peruvian Sleekness
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Crispy on January 07, 2005, 09:30:03 AM
What about Loke the Sleek Perv?

Anyway can an admin kill or merge my NS Forum thread with this or something. My motives for not looking anywhere else are fully explained in the thread.

I r now known as Crispy on the NS.com Forums and not -[Kobayashi]-

Yep, I'm happy!
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Malevolent on January 07, 2005, 10:21:33 AM
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no, their new rules are only 1 number per name.. to stop 1337 speak -_-
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Yeah, when I said that, I meant get it changed to Anarki or something.
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Anarki3x6 on January 07, 2005, 03:18:52 PM
meh, i've been Anarki3x6 forever and thats what im known by like everywhere. just a really dumb rule is all.
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: bacon_flaps on January 07, 2005, 04:40:22 PM
Not in your sig apparently! OOOOH SERVED

Change it to Anarki :p
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: Anarki3x6 on January 08, 2005, 12:18:38 AM
the 3x6 in the sig woulda cut into the face and messed it so i decided to take it off :/
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: esuna on January 08, 2005, 08:03:03 AM
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Quote
Maybe they could've left ns.org running until the UWE site was ready?
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lolfighter wins.  Maybe they could have left the forums how they were until they got the new version working instead of letting the community deteriorate for two months.

And yes, we know the UWE team has families and wants to spend time with them, but it takes a few minutes to keep the front page updated.  No, I don't need my hand to be held through every step of the development process, but personally I'd appreciate occasional updates about why the community for my favorite game has been shut down for a couple months.
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I'd appreciate you shutting the hell up.

Do you ever read what you type? Do you have any idea how you sound? You're all me me me, take take take, give me more, i'm more important. How about you let the developers have a break over Christmas just like you most likely have done? How about you sit back and let them do the work rather than being some whiner on the sidelines?

And no, the site (the forums, which we all mean) couldn't be left up. The forum databases were also moving servers, to do that they need the database to be static and not changed. If the forum was left open until the day they moved it, you'll find a hell of a lot of posts going missing because the database they transfer is a day or two out of date.

Also, when it comes to server changes and implementation of new systems around old ones, bugs happen, they can only be tackled when they happen, you can't foresee every little bug or error that will occurr, if you could, you'd probably be a millionaire by now.

In short: Shut up.
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: lolfighter on January 08, 2005, 09:08:20 AM
No diplomacy award for esuna. Like THAT'S gonna surprise anybody.

Brief:
scooter, relax.
esuna, don't overreact.


I'll elaborate on what I was talking about then: As esuna pointed out in IRC, if they left ns.org running while working on uwe.com, uwe.com would be outdated by the time it was running. My point, though, is that the NATURE of ns.org does not change, only the content. Of course, threads, replies, and new users will be added over time, but unless they apply an update to the forums themselves, all that is rather inconsequential. What I thought was this:
They could've taken a backup of ns.org, and worked on getting it to work with uwe.com. Once they had THAT down, they could make the full transition with a fresh backup, what with taking down ns.org and all that. Of course, I may be wrong, but this is how I see it.
Title: Unknown Worlds
Post by: SwiftSpear on January 08, 2005, 02:10:17 PM
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No diplomacy award for esuna. Like THAT'S gonna surprise anybody.

Brief:
scooter, relax.
esuna, don't overreact.


I'll elaborate on what I was talking about then: As esuna pointed out in IRC, if they left ns.org running while working on uwe.com, uwe.com would be outdated by the time it was running. My point, though, is that the NATURE of ns.org does not change, only the content. Of course, threads, replies, and new users will be added over time, but unless they apply an update to the forums themselves, all that is rather inconsequential. What I thought was this:
They could've taken a backup of ns.org, and worked on getting it to work with uwe.com. Once they had THAT down, they could make the full transition with a fresh backup, what with taking down ns.org and all that. Of course, I may be wrong, but this is how I see it.
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Wouldn't that have been the apropriate development process?

Your not supposed to take a peice of working software down to impliment a patch or improvements?  could you imagine if blizzard fried battlenet for 2 monthes?