Overly Chatty Penguins
The Ready Room => Off Topic => Topic started by: BobTheJanitor on July 16, 2004, 02:45:10 PM
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Seriously. How realistic is jumping in half life or any of the mods to date? It's not. At all. No one gets into a gunfight and jumps around like a madman in an attempt to dodge bullets. Intelligence says you'd dive for cover, but only a few mods have coded diving of any sort, and that's diving for stunt appeal, and not so much for getting out of someone's crosshairs. Fighting terrorists? Jump out from a corner and shoot them in the head in midair. Fighting aliens? If they get near you, start bouncing around, they won't bite you then, haha! Fighting monkeys? Evil rabbits? Demons? Nazis? Jump, Jump, JUMP!!! And once you allow jumping to stay in the game, you have to balance around it. I'd love to see a game without any jumping at all.
How would I get around the map? I hear you ask. Let me ask you this. For all the realism mods there are out there, compare them to the realistic 'map' (AKA the world around you) that you've been walking through all day long. How many times today, in the area that you've walked through (which is probably orders of magnitude bigger than any HL map could ever hope to be) have you ever needed to be able to jump four feet in the air and 6 feet horizontally in order to clear a gap so that you could go about your daily life? How many times have you actually JUMPED in the last week? Month? YEAR? (jumping rope for exercise doesn't count, you dolt) I'd just love to see a game that purported to be realistic and was designed around no jumping whatsoever. Or extremely realistic jumping. e.g. - that soldier with 100 pounds worth of gear, ammo, and weaponry on his back being able to jump about six inches in the air and having a good chance of spraining his ankle on the way down. Not to mention completely losing your ability to aim a weapon if you're bouncing while you do it.
I don't particularly hate jumping, mind you. I just got off on a rant and didn't know when to stop. And it's better than working.
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Rainbow Six series doesn't have jumping.
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If I could do it in real life I woldnt be playing VIDEO GAMES.
capslock=hint
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yes, that's a very good point bob. but there are few mods out there that don't really need (or discourage a lot of) jumping.
Hostile Intent
Day of Defeat
TFC (i KID I KID!!!)
er, yeah, yer right, there are FAR too many "MUST JUMP TO EVADE/MOVE FASTER" games out there.
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You can't blame the games themselves, it's the 5 year old engine that allows people to hop like mad.
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then firearms is for you my good friend, if you jump+fire odd's are you will shoot yourself in the head/foot, not to mension the horrible stamina loss of just 1 jump and the huge movement speed loss of the landing.
if you've ever noticed jumping in a mod/game, its proly a lower end mod/game most of the more finely turned ones have removed jumping or as in firearms nerf'ed it so horribly as to take away all usefullness other then climbing boxes.
just my nickel and dime.
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ghost recon. very good game with no jumping.
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I'm not saying I completely despise jumping and everything jumping related. I'm the first to admit that I jump around all the day long in NS. So does everyone else. The game was coded with jumping in and now has been balanced around crackjumping marines and bunnyhopping skulks.
I just see it as a silly relic of 80s platformer games that doesn't have a place in a lot of games that attempt to be realistic.
It comes down to the fact that it's not really jumping, it's dodging, but in a silly fashion. Ah well, like I said, this was mostly random thoughts floating around in my head while I was avoiding working on some poor guy's broken PC.
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Because gameplay > realism, and oftentimes jumping can add a whole new level to even a supposedly realistic game.
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I understand your points, and it's not something that could be changed in a game that's already as old as NS without a redesign of hundreds of other little things, but I'd still be curious to see a game implement non-jumping and still have a realistic way to avoid being shot at.
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IF nothing else, it can at least amuse me....and it gives me something to do, with my lack of life. >:D
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i hate this discussion of jumping =/ it should just be a server option to whether or not jumping is allowed at all, uses stamina, infinite jumping who cares, and bhop. this way theres no more arguement, but i guess that requires actual effort to put in =/ theres arguements for and against everything, its a matter of if the mod wants the realistic feel or the you need to bhop to compete feel.
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Or extremely realistic jumping. e.g. - that soldier with 100 pounds worth of gear, ammo, and weaponry on his back being able to jump about six inches in the air and having a good chance of spraining his ankle on the way down. Not to mention completely losing your ability to aim a weapon if you're bouncing while you do it.
Nanites give teh super jump :p
NS needs the ability to CLIMB (mantling?) instead of jumping.. climbing a box is a lot better then bhopping around.. but I'm just in the habit of jumping to everywhere in ns
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realistic jumping eh?
CS!
you jump, you go wildly innacurate, and then you land and have an attrocious slowdown
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realistic jumping eh?
CS!
you jump, you go wildly innacurate, and then you land and have an attrocious slowdown
Or you jump and crouch and can aim just fine. That's really realistic right there
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Hostile Intent has jumping?
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the only thing i found wrong with jumping in ahl was that if you crouch+jump you are 100% accuarate or than that the dives made the jumping aspect moot
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Because gameplay > realism, and oftentimes jumping can add a whole new level to even a supposedly realistic game.
Heaven forbid they take away your precious bunnyhop.
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I say we keep jumping. In fact, lets encourage it. Every game from now on must have jumping and bunnyhopping as standard. Ok, so they won't be fun to play, but at least Bob will have a lot more of these rants. They are very interesting and entertaining.
Keep up the good work dude.
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I agree with Bob. Although, I don't want to see jumping totally gone, but rather realistic jumping, not "realistic jumping effects". For example, when have you ever jumped and then landed to find that you are moving really really slow? Usually after you land a jump, you're movin fast. But also, you can only jump like 6" up in the air without pulling your legs up (hence jumpcrouching). And when have you ever tried to get up ontop of something big and just jumped and crouched? if you nipped the corner, you'd fall flat on your face, that's why you don't do it. You'd use your hands to grab the edge and pull yourself up. Something like a 6" jump with the ability to grab onto an edge above you and pull yourself up is more realistic than any mod's jumping I've seen.
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I hope a Few HL 2 mods add in "realistic" jumping, like Sati's idea
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yes, that's a very good point bob. but there are few mods out there that don't really need (or discourage a lot of) jumping.
Hostile Intent
Day of Defeat
TFC (i KID I KID!!!)
er, yeah, yer right, there are FAR too many "MUST JUMP TO EVADE/MOVE FASTER" games out there.
You haven't seen me play Hostile Intent then. ^_^
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If you are trying to be a realism stifler, you could make a more convincing argument ragging on the other 99% of gameplay that makes NS unrealistic.
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Yeah like those aliens. They don't look like REAL aliens at all.
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If you are trying to be a realism stifler, you could make a more convincing argument ragging on the other 99% of gameplay that makes NS unrealistic.
You mean like how if this is all so far in the future, why don't we all just gas the aliens out with some kind of advanced bio-poison instead of risking the lives of soldiers to eliminate them? :D
On a random side note (and because I was bored at 2:45 a.m. and wanted to make something in Photoshop/Image Ready), I decided to take a look at what it would be like if jumping was removed from even one of our most cherished childhood games.
(http://208.35.225.137/grimm/marionojump.gif)
Looks like little Johnny isn't going to get past level 1. :(
:lol:
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C O M E D Y G O L D !
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Who cares? Little Johnny has h4xed his cartridge to remove the time limit. Let him burn in the hell of perpetual abyss-fallage.
I don't remember how high you can jump in System Shock 2, but it has another interesting feature that makes jumping unnecessary in a lot of cases: Climbing. You can climb onto any object that isn't higher than you by walking up against it and holding down the jump key. I'd like to see more climbing in games. Games like NS, for example. One of NS' strong points is the athmosphere. And while I agree that gameplay > realism, realism usually adds to the athmosphere. And if the game is athmospheric, a certain level of realism is necessary. Nerfing jump and adding climb could help. Currently, you can jump like a jackrabbit, but woe betide if your path is blocked by the Dreaded Obstacle ov Doom, the CHEST-HIGH CRATE!
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Who cares? Little Johnny has h4xed his cartridge to remove the time limit. Let him burn in the hell of perpetual abyss-fallage.
just send him to the firery pits of hell to let him burn for all eternity for h4xing his super mario bros cartridge
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On a random side note (and because I was bored at 2:45 a.m. and wanted to make something in Photoshop/Image Ready), I decided to take a look at what it would be like if jumping was removed from even one of our most cherished childhood games.
(http://208.35.225.137/grimm/marionojump.gif)
Looks like little Johnny isn't going to get past level 1. :(
Wait, how'd you get a mushroom without jumping? and there's a pipe before you even get near there.
Lies, all lies.
PS. We have a classic NES in our youth room which is played more than our N64, gamecube, DDR, ping pong table, and pool table combined.
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lol at mario ^^
More games should make use of the Zelda 64 Jumping system. Basically there's only 2 ways to jump... 1 is to get next to something you can climb then hit the action button which'll make you jump up and grab the ledge. The other is to run off an edge which'll make you auto-jump based on speed. (if you walk off you'll climb down holding onto the ledge) =3
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whoa it's gem <3 o_O
is it juts me or has she/he/it not been around as much ?
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I like to be able to jump for just for dicks sake in games, I don't think limiting the potential actions a player can make does anything really but annoy the player. Reaslism can be damned if I can't have fun, expecially in single player games.
Not to say I don't think its stupid how much jumping has integrated itself into games like CS and other tactics realism mods (ha, CS realism :p ) but the fact of the matter is, a crappyily physicsized jump is easyer to turn into whatever you want the jump to be for mod makers, than a jump that has lots of realism type stuff hardcoded into it. Think of how hard it would have been for flay to make skulks if the HL jump had issues like ground impact and what not hardcoded into it...
I say take out (or limit greatly, ala HI) jumping when it ruins gameplay, after all, there should be no reason for people to jump in combat in CS, IRL that will get you shot, fast, and you will be out of commission until long after you hit the floor. But there still is a a ting of action gameplay that we lose (leap over the railing, hop on the desk, mow down a couple opponents) when you remove jumping compleatly...
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Unrelated, but actually HL code does have resididual jump related stuff coded into it. Notice how skulks go ARGH when they fall a long way? They're not supposed to do that, neither are fades or lerks or JPs, because they don't take falling damage. But apparently it's a real pain to code that out. Hooray for random HL facts!
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Unrelated, but actually HL code does have resididual jump related stuff coded into it. Notice how skulks go ARGH when they fall a long way? They're not supposed to do that, neither are fades or lerks or JPs, because they don't take falling damage. But apparently it's a real pain to code that out. Hooray for random HL facts!
Ya, could you imagine if it was less minorly annoying things and more horribly frustraing limitations placed on the jumps?
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Like, they made you explode into bits when you hit the jump key? Yes, I could see that being a problem indeed.
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Like, they made you explode into bits when you hit the jump key? Yes, I could see that being a problem indeed.
Ironicly I could see myself getting good use out of the 'explode into bits' button. In RTCW, I several time ran out into an open field full of nazis and quickly swallowed my cyanide pill just to see the looks on thier faces, then I realized that game AI doesn't give a dick. Now let's never speak of it again.
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Not to say I don't think its stupid how much jumping has integrated itself into games like CS and other tactics realism mods (ha, CS realism :p )...
...there should be no reason for people to jump in combat in CS, IRL that will get you shot, fast...
Interesting contradiction in your post there: You take the time to mock Counterstrike's 'realism', but the next paragraph you want CS to be more realistic when it comes to jumping.
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Not to say I don't think its stupid how much jumping has integrated itself into games like CS and other tactics realism mods (ha, CS realism :p )...
...there should be no reason for people to jump in combat in CS, IRL that will get you shot, fast...
Interesting contradiction in your post there: You take the time to mock Counterstrike's 'realism', but the next paragraph you want CS to be more realistic when it comes to jumping.
How is it a contradiction to make fun of the fact that counterstrike isn't realistic and want it to be more realistic? I don't like the fact that it isn't realistic, so I want an improvement.
Either way, I don't really play CS at all any more, so in the end, I could care less.
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Well, first there's the fact that I've never heard any CS player say "Counterstrike is 100% completely realistic"; I've only ever heard the CS haters say that the CS players say that. Then there's the fact that you want an "improvement" on a game you admitted you don't play anymore and could care less about. If you really don't play it anymore and could care less, what does it matter to you if the game is "improved"?
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i used to have a screenie of a cs player saying cs was all about realism o_O
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Well, first there's the fact that I've never heard any CS player say "Counterstrike is 100% completely realistic"; I've only ever heard the CS haters say that the CS players say that. Then there's the fact that you want an "improvement" on a game you admitted you don't play anymore and could care less about. If you really don't play it anymore and could care less, what does it matter to you if the game is "improved"?
Hey, I said there was no contradiction in my FRIST post, I didn't say ANYTHING about my second post :p
Oh, and I don't really hate CS, I just prefer other mods ATM, and thus don't get any time to play it. I don't play DoD any more either, but I absolutly love the game.
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RB6 Raven Shield
if the netcode would just be a little bit better....