Overly Chatty Penguins

The Ready Room => General => Topic started by: Quaunaut on December 03, 2004, 07:33:49 PM

Title: Magnum.
Post by: Quaunaut on December 03, 2004, 07:33:49 PM
This is the 4th time in 2 days I've gone on a server, and all it is, is a magnum whoring session. You can't spawn without getting whored by one. Its a physical impossibility. It makes coming on the server not fun, and it removes any fun that it may have had thanks to the fact that it goes through any item you may be carrying with the grav gun(thus, no way to counter the weapon).

I'm looking to see who else here things the gun is so overpowered that we have it removed from MP until underpowered, or have LB himself alter damage on it to half of what it is.
Title: Magnum.
Post by: Malevolent on December 03, 2004, 11:00:31 PM
If there's something by you, grab it with the grav gun to block shots for now. I did that all the time in HL2.
Title: Magnum.
Post by: Leaderz0rz on December 03, 2004, 11:17:46 PM
just reduce the damage by half and it will be ok
Title: Magnum.
Post by: ANeM on December 04, 2004, 01:09:28 AM
Overwatch is especially bad, having the magnum and a box of ammo 5 feet from not one, but two spawn points, both which can be seen from the magnum =/
Title: Magnum.
Post by: lolfighter on December 04, 2004, 07:23:34 AM
Ironic. In other threads (about other games, but nevertheless), the argument goes that we mess around with the game too much. Here, suddenly, you want us to implement such fundamental changes as CUTTING THE DAMAGE OF A WEAPON IN HALF. Imagine if we did that to the lmg or skulk bite in NS.
Don't give me the balance dealio, I can't take it anymore. If it's overpowered, please sir, you want www.steampowered.com for all your bitching needs. Trust Valve to take care of their own game. I've spend the last few weeks listening to how godlike they are, well, here's their chance to PROVE it. If they don't change the magnum, I'll just assume that this is the way they want their game to be, and I will not dare assert my will over that of Valvegod.
Title: Magnum.
Post by: Diablus on December 04, 2004, 08:00:53 AM
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Ironic. In other threads (about other games, but nevertheless), the argument goes that we mess around with the game too much. Here, suddenly, you want us to implement such fundamental changes as CUTTING THE DAMAGE OF A WEAPON IN HALF. Imagine if we did that to the lmg or skulk bite in NS.
Don't give me the balance dealio, I can't take it anymore. If it's overpowered, please sir, you want www.steampowered.com for all your bitching needs. Trust Valve to take care of their own game. I've spend the last few weeks listening to how godlike they are, well, here's their chance to PROVE it. If they don't change the magnum, I'll just assume that this is the way they want their game to be, and I will not dare assert my will over that of Valvegod.
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Its Half Life Deathmatch, everyone goes in with a smiling face, joyful and ready to have fun, but leave frustrated, pissed off beyoned belief and want to punch someone. We think balancing the weapons could change all of that. Trust me lolfighter something really needs to be done about this magnum and also comparing it to a mod where everyone basically fights with the same weapon (lmg vs skulk) to a game where everyone is fighting with different weapons (and or pieces of map) isn't quite a good "comparison" to say the least. Heck everything in hldm2 is fine except the 1 hit kill, firing super fast magnum. Think about it lolfighter, imagine yourself spawning and being shot instantly with it ebfore you can even take 2 steps foward, then spawning again, running a few feet around the map get some armor and a cool weapon then blam. dead from 80 feet away from 1 shot to the chest/stomache with a magnum. I mean its damn better than the damn Crossbow ffs which should dominate long distance fighting. Plus the ROF is high so its not like the AWP in CS where you can find a corner to hide, but more like the Shotgun in NS with a range from 100000 feet away. and its spammerific = unfun
Title: Magnum.
Post by: Keyser59 on December 04, 2004, 09:41:43 AM
Like lolfigher said, you have to take it for what it is. No use whining about it here, just have to adapt until valve makes the nerf or whatever.

If you spend your time playing the game than you will know the best way to counter a magnum is to get a magnum, and generally thats not too hard.

It doesn't kill gameplay, it just focuses a certain aspect of the game.
Title: Magnum.
Post by: Diablus on December 04, 2004, 10:32:15 AM
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Like lolfigher said, you have to take it for what it is. No use whining about it here, just have to adapt until valve makes the nerf or whatever.

If you spend your time playing the game than you will know the best way to counter a magnum is to get a magnum, and generally thats not too hard.

It doesn't kill gameplay, it just focuses a certain aspect of the game.
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This forum is for HLDM2, if someone is going to rant, or rave about weapon(s) they have every right to. In forums you need to gain seniority and respect, joining the steam forums and making your first post about a rant on the Magnum would only cause the community to laugh at your ass and say "go get experience newb"

Now posting in here has 2 reasons.

1. You can vent and expect not to be flamed or crticized in a negative manner

2. Possibly someone who has some type of connection, or is active in the steam forums that can post this idea in which the community would look at it from a different point of view and will be up for the change.
Title: Magnum.
Post by: Guspaz on December 04, 2004, 12:54:30 PM
I just want all weapons except for the gravity gun removed ;)
Title: Magnum.
Post by: A Boojum Snark on December 04, 2004, 01:25:46 PM
There is one fatal flaw in your argument LF. The game was designed around the single player aspect where the weapon can take down combines in 1 shot and ammo is not exactly plentiful. No one is playing the combine, no one cares about them.

When you are in a multiplayer scene you need to be careful with 1 shot kill weapons. If you look at the games that have sniper class weapons, nearly ALL of them have some way of seeing where the sniper is, where he is aiming, both, or the weapon is not insta-hit and you can avoid it and/or the sniper has a hell of a lot hard time with leading the shot. This is because dying instantly from someone halfway across the map with no way of knowing he is gaining a bead on you is just plain frustrating.
Title: Magnum.
Post by: Quaunaut on December 04, 2004, 03:37:33 PM
Mal, read my post: THE MAGNUM GOES THROUGH ANYTHING. Desks, barrels, toilets, radiators, filing cabinets- everything. The least we could do is get rid of its penetrative properties.

Having to wait till then is killing it off for me. I go in, want to have fun, and don't even get the chance because of the massive whorage. In NS we don't change it because unbalances are at least tolerable. Here, the game just ends because of that- and everyone quits because it isn't fun anymore.
Title: Magnum.
Post by: Legionnaired on December 04, 2004, 04:04:44 PM
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Mal, read my post: THE MAGNUM GOES THROUGH ANYTHING. Desks, barrels, toilets, radiators, filing cabinets- everything. The least we could do is get rid of its penetrative properties.

Having to wait till then is killing it off for me. I go in, want to have fun, and don't even get the chance because of the massive whorage. In NS we don't change it because unbalances are at least tolerable. Here, the game just ends because of that- and everyone quits because it isn't fun anymore.
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You wanna test that out with me, because I'm pretty sure it doesn't.
Title: Magnum.
Post by: Keyser59 on December 04, 2004, 04:18:22 PM
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This forum is for HLDM2, if someone is going to rant, or rave about weapon(s) they have every right to. In forums you need to gain seniority and respect, joining the steam forums and making your first post about a rant on the Magnum would only cause the community to laugh at your ass and say "go get experience newb"

Now posting in here has 2 reasons.

1. You can vent and expect not to be flamed or crticized in a negative manner

2. Possibly someone who has some type of connection, or is active in the steam forums that can post this idea in which the community would look at it from a different point of view and will be up for the change.

Well, 1, you'll almost always be critisized because it is almost guaranteed there will be someone with a different opinion, and 2, you could just post it on the steam forums yourself.

The steamed forums have no sense of seniority because it is not a community based forums. There is no ranking system, and people there are just as likely to dismiss an admins post as a post by a person who registered yesterday. There are actually about 5 "rant threads" in the forums, all with support or opposition. Posting your opinion there might actually succeed in accomplishing something.

But the focus of my post was that it's not as bad as you think. Yeah it sucks being killed in one shot, but it can also be countered. And if someone is camping the magnum, then just stay away or be sneaky until he dies. It's annoying, but not game-breaking.

And no, even the magnum does not shoot through anything.
Title: Magnum.
Post by: Anarki3x6 on December 04, 2004, 04:29:34 PM
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Mal, read my post: THE MAGNUM GOES THROUGH ANYTHING. Desks, barrels, toilets, radiators, filing cabinets- everything. The least we could do is get rid of its penetrative properties.

Having to wait till then is killing it off for me. I go in, want to have fun, and don't even get the chance because of the massive whorage. In NS we don't change it because unbalances are at least tolerable. Here, the game just ends because of that- and everyone quits because it isn't fun anymore.
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Your biggest complaint there is that it goes through everything? like hell it does, i try to shoot people carrying stuff but it only sometimes goes through, like with boxes perhaps, i always aim for the persons appendages that are stickin out when theyre carrying an object... and it kills em...
Title: Magnum.
Post by: Legionnaired on December 04, 2004, 04:59:52 PM
Decimator and I tested the magnum out. It goes through nothing, not even a little cardboard box, which only got knocked out of my hands.

If someone is using the magnum, grab a barrel, crouch, and creep up on them until you can nail them with it.
Title: Magnum.
Post by: Quaunaut on December 04, 2004, 09:40:31 PM
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Decimator and I tested the magnum out. It goes through nothing, not even a little cardboard box, which only got knocked out of my hands.

If someone is using the magnum, grab a barrel, crouch, and creep up on them until you can nail them with it.
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And proceed to get owned by every other Magnum wielding nub on the map
Title: Magnum.
Post by: Malevolent on December 04, 2004, 11:29:17 PM
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Mal, read my post: THE MAGNUM GOES THROUGH ANYTHING. Desks, barrels, toilets, radiators, filing cabinets- everything. The least we could do is get rid of its penetrative properties.

Having to wait till then is killing it off for me. I go in, want to have fun, and don't even get the chance because of the massive whorage. In NS we don't change it because unbalances are at least tolerable. Here, the game just ends because of that- and everyone quits because it isn't fun anymore.
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You wanna test that out with me, because I'm pretty sure it doesn't.
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Yeah, I doubt it can go through all that stuff, but it doesn't matter to me either way since I can't play it with the horrendous lag.
Title: Magnum.
Post by: lolfighter on December 05, 2004, 07:48:15 AM
Before reading further, go look up "irony" and "sarcasm" in the dictionary, or I shall smite you with this here carrot.

Again, go complain to Valvegod. It's their game, and their damn responsibility. Pull the "paying customer" number on them, bombard them with emails, spam the forums, I don't give a damn, but don't incovenience me with stuff that isn't my responsibility. This is like running to your mommy and telling her to stop the war in Iraq because it's not good (oh, and please, do me the favour of turning this into a political flamewar because of that comment so I can lock the thread).

If they won't listen to you because you don't have a high enough postcount, then THEY suck. It's still not my fault or problem.

But remember that Valve is godlike. Nothing can stand up to the awesome awesomeness that is Valvegod (or so everyone has been happy to tell me for the past few weeks). If they want the magnum to be the bfg of HL2DM, then they are right and anybody who says different is just a naysayer. You must bow down and pray to Valvegod, and banish your sinful criticism from your mind. Celibacy, silent prayer, and daily floggings are the way.
Title: Magnum.
Post by: Dark on December 05, 2004, 08:30:08 AM
hl2dm is only in its first release and so the magnum (though very powerful) will stay in that game this powerful till as lf stated you guys tell valve about it.  posting here asking for it to be underpowered is like asking lb or someone else to code for the mod that valve created.  remember valve does have forums though they have more spam there than here by people who have nothing better to do then perform threadomancy; however, valve does listen to some of the people who do post good and logical threads.
Title: Magnum.
Post by: lolfighter on December 05, 2004, 08:37:39 AM
Exactly. Like this here post for example:

Quote
There is one fatal flaw in your argument LF. The game was designed around the single player aspect where the weapon can take down combines in 1 shot and ammo is not exactly plentiful. No one is playing the combine, no one cares about them.

When you are in a multiplayer scene you need to be careful with 1 shot kill weapons. If you look at the games that have sniper class weapons, nearly ALL of them have some way of seeing where the sniper is, where he is aiming, both, or the weapon is not insta-hit and you can avoid it and/or the sniper has a hell of a lot hard time with leading the shot. This is because dying instantly from someone halfway across the map with no way of knowing he is gaining a bead on you is just plain frustrating.
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My argument is not flawed because nowhere am I stating that the magnum does not need a nerf. I don't own the game, remember? I have no idea how the magnum feels, whether you have a valid point or are just whining because you suck. All I'm saying is that you're complaining to the wrong people. For the third time: Valve are the ones you need to bug about this, just like Dark says. Preferrably with reasonable posts like ABS'.


Edit: Another matter: You people clamoring for a nerf or removal: Any idea how we'd go about doing that? Not stuff like "you should code a plugin that does x" or "you should lower the damage to", but actual procedures. I'm looking for stuff like "go to this here website, download plugin so-and-so, install it according to the included readme, set the parameter mp_magnum to '0' or adjust mp_magnumdscale to '0.5'" You should have done this right away, not after I had to request it of you.

Edit2: Of course, we could just take any map that has the magnum out of the map rotation, but I get a sneaking suspicion that that'd be almost all of 'em.
Also, you LMers could just make a gentleman's agreement not to use the magnum. Don't expect us to enforce it though. Heck, enforce it yourselves and gang up on anyone who uses the magnum.
Title: Magnum.
Post by: Cheez on December 05, 2004, 10:42:52 AM
Why is it one shot kill weapons makes everyone so angry all the time....

Man valve was asking for it on that one.

One thing that did surprise me once, i got killed by a single madnum shot with 100 hp 100 armor :o

that's some magnum.
Title: Magnum.
Post by: Quaunaut on December 05, 2004, 10:54:37 AM
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Why is it one shot kill weapons makes everyone so angry all the time....

Man valve was asking for it on that one.

One thing that did surprise me once, i got killed by a single madnum shot with 100 hp 100 armor :o

that's some magnum.
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Indeed. And being shot in the toe kills you too.

Also: Ah, it is true, the magnum does not go through things. But still, you must admit its overpowered :p
Title: Magnum.
Post by: Cheez on December 05, 2004, 01:43:59 PM
omg nerf quaunaut, he's overpowered.
Title: Magnum.
Post by: Dark on December 05, 2004, 09:30:26 PM
with all this complaining about the magum being overpowered it is beginning to sound like the cs servers that don't allow the awp to be used.... for the last time it is not as overpowered as was stated in the beginning since holding an object with the grav gun and ducking will protect you....

as i stated earlier the complaints here will go no where since none of us code for valve.. for soemthing to be done talk with valve and until someone does or finds a way to "nerf" the gun by themselves that is actually fair to everyone complaining here will do nothing.
Title: Magnum.
Post by: duherman on December 05, 2004, 09:34:36 PM
I think the magnum is fair. Every game has a weapon that is very overpowered. Like in Doom it was the BFG (Big :Ding Gun). Counter-Strike it was the awp. When people whine I just tell them "It's in the game for a reason" or Deal with it cause its apart of the game. Anyways games are designed this way, to have fun.
Title: Magnum.
Post by: Guspaz on December 05, 2004, 10:35:51 PM
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I think the magnum is fair. Every game has a weapon that is very overpowered. Like in Doom it was the BFG (Big :Ding Gun). Counter-Strike it was the awp. When people whine I just tell them "It's in the game for a reason" or Deal with it cause its apart of the game. Anyways games are designed this way, to have fun.
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BFG was a slow moving projectile that only really worked in closed areas, unless you'd mastered the rays it cast. The AWP is still not a one hit kill all the time, only in certian hit locations and circumstances, and it must be fired while moving very slowly, and zoomed in. And there's a decently long cooldown.

The magnum blows away the BFG and the AWP. You can be running and hopping full tilt, zoomed out, and taking off rapid potshots killing one person per shot. I've done it (taken out multiple people in rapid succession), it is indeed lame.
Title: Magnum.
Post by: devicenull on December 06, 2004, 10:52:50 AM
As I stated elsewhere, the cvar sk_plr_357 should control the amount of damage the magnum does.  If it doesn't work (I can't get it working on my test server), then it might be possible to write a plugin that did this, however, looking at the SDK, it wouldn't be too easy to write.  I don't know of any plugins that do this.
Title: Magnum.
Post by: Quaunaut on December 06, 2004, 05:10:43 PM
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As I stated elsewhere, the cvar sk_plr_357 should control the amount of damage the magnum does.  If it doesn't work (I can't get it working on my test server), then it might be possible to write a plugin that did this, however, looking at the SDK, it wouldn't be too easy to write.  I don't know of any plugins that do this.
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If you tell me how to make a plugin, I could mod the SDK to pull it off.
Title: Magnum.
Post by: duherman on December 06, 2004, 10:18:00 PM
Well I've mastered the awp. Awp is easy to handle, You just need to know how to use it.
Title: Magnum.
Post by: EmperorPenguin on December 11, 2004, 11:02:34 PM
So this latest patch toned the magnum damage down.  Does it really make a difference?
Title: Magnum.
Post by: ebnar on December 12, 2004, 08:58:39 AM
makes a major difference, especially on overwatch. people won't be able to whore the the spawns in the magnum area to as great an extent, and it seems to make it easier to whore the rocket launcher. on lockdown you're able to combine the magnum and the shotgun, to hurt with the magnum and finish off with the shotgun. with the magnum damage reduction, people will have to come up with more refined ways of dominating the game.
Title: Magnum.
Post by: Kodiac on December 12, 2004, 10:24:41 AM
Alright, two things- first, i do NOT own hl2 or hl2dm, so my opinions are nto necessarily true, or accurate

second, this reminds me of a problem with another game i played......

Everyone knows halo, yes?

everyone knows the pistol, yes?

the one with scope/pinpoint accuracy/smeiauto/nearly unlimited range/3 shot kill in multioplayer? Remember, so long ago in the original halo?

Sounds to me like the same problem is back, just a little different.  OK, so it kills in one hit.  So does the awp- but people deal with that, and it evcen has a scope.  Ok, you it is accurate-so is halo(origianls) pistol, but then, who cares? put the magnum loser(err...user) in a position such that they can't use it's advantages.  In cs, you counter the awp by hopping around and not running in straight lines.  In halo yoiu odnt go out into the open unlss you have a cover and know where the other person is.   Don' givre the enemy the advantages they want-use what you have to the best of your ability.  

So even if it kills you in one shot, even if it kills with pinpoint accuracy, WHO CARES?  deal with it, use soemthing else taht works better indoors and pwn them from behind, or just be sneaky git and hide and wait for the idiiots who wander around.  Do whatever, but just because it kills in one shot and all that jazz doesnt mean "OGM UNBALANCED NERF/BAN/HAX/REMOVE/BLAH!"  I HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE WHINE LIKE THAT! learn to deal with the balance issues
Title: Magnum.
Post by: Diablus on December 12, 2004, 10:28:16 AM
Actually Kodiac, you can escape the AWP by hopping. But due to the high ROF as well as the 6 bullets in its chamber and great accuracy on the magnum, you arent surviving it by jumping around
Title: Magnum.
Post by: bacon_flaps on December 12, 2004, 03:17:26 PM
I'll just have to aim for your guys' heads now to piss you off. :p
Christ guys, it's deathmatch, where death is, obviously, supposed to be a frequent occurance.  It's not like NS where the two sides are asymmetrical and there have to be balances.  Anything someone can do with the magnum in HL2DM, you can too.  Beat them at their own game.

OMFG I SUX WITH TEH MAGNUM AND PPL WIF AIM CAN SHOT ME, CRY CRY
Title: Magnum.
Post by: A Boojum Snark on December 12, 2004, 04:17:22 PM
Ok bacon, if deathmatch is where death is to be common and you should get over it and you can do everything they can. I'll make a deathmatch mod, only one weapon (so everyone can do things equally), the weapon will fire 2 rounds per second, and the rounds will each do 500 damage, because death is to be common. Think anyone will play? I doubt it.

This would be similar to what would happen if everyone took your advice of "beat them at their own game", you would have everyone running around with 357s and it would end up in a boring mess of stupidity. Or wait... not everyone can get the 357 cause it has a limited respawn time. So no, everyone does not have the ability to "beat them at their own game" if everyone cannot get access to the 357 at the same time.

Of course though there are other 1-hit-kill weapons, lets take a look at those and then the weapon in question.

-RPG: Only 3-4 rounds (i forget exactly which). Fast moving but possible to dodge at extreme ranges. Possible to kill more than one person per shot, but generally the maps are not populated enough to allow this to happen often.
-Physics objects: Unlimited ammo if you can find it all the time. rather slow moving and easily dodged at mid-range. Can be cought and fired back, some can be destroyed. Unlimited ammo if you can find it all the time.
-Crossbow: Comes with 5 rounds, 10 if you wait around for it to respawn. Moving targets at long range are difficult to hit. Slow bolt cycling period between firing. Quite deadly at close range.
-Singularity Orbs (i think thats what the pulse rifle nades are): Rifle usually found with 2 of these, can hold 3. Easy to get multiple kills due to its ricochet and slight homing capibilities. Virtually useless outdoors. Relativly slow moving and extremely easy to see. Can be cought at fired back with the grav gun if you are good with it.
-357 Magnum: Normally found along with an ammo pack, giving 12 rounds, can hold 18. Instant hit at any range. relativly medium rate of fire.


Now I realise the magnum is no longer instakill, but I wanted to compare them. Another thing is that when I would get killed with the magnum it was extremely annoying. The kind of annoying you feel when a rambo waltzes into the hive and kills your egg. When I get killed with the other weapons, I normally don't get anywhere near as annoyed unless I've been having a bad round.
Title: Magnum.
Post by: confused! on December 12, 2004, 05:11:56 PM
well, i think that the magnum especially now is nota roblem.

the entire game is populated with one hit kills.

rpg.
crossbow.
smg grenades.
grenades.
orb dealy do.
physics objects.
magnum.

the only gun that doesn't have and insta kill is the default pistol.

the magnum is simply placed to prominatly in the map for my tastes. if it was and rpg it wouldnt matter.  haivng an insta gibl weapon in a spawn area is pretty stupid.
Title: Magnum.
Post by: Dark on December 13, 2004, 12:38:08 AM
eh i've seen people get instakilled with the pistol
Title: Magnum.
Post by: Vinegar Ninja on December 13, 2004, 11:45:23 AM
yea, it IS possible to insta kill with the pistol. some wierd bug? dunno, qua was bitching about it to me, and I just kinda laughed at him, cause he had the weakest argument ever.
Title: Magnum.
Post by: Keyser59 on December 13, 2004, 01:31:30 PM
Pistol glitch, you charge up your pistol by holding mouse 2 then pressing mouse 1, and after 30 seconds ago you release mouse 2 and you discharge your whole pistol clip into a guy, generally resulting in an instant kill.

They fixed it in the latest patch, along with making the magnum weaker.
Title: Magnum.
Post by: Clashen on December 13, 2004, 04:03:56 PM
The pistol-bug was really funny. 18-shots in 1 sec =D
Title: Magnum.
Post by: lolfighter on December 14, 2004, 02:26:00 AM
Thirty seconds of charge time? Doesn't sound hugely unbalanced to me, considering the fast pace of deathmatch.
Title: Magnum.
Post by: Clashen on December 14, 2004, 04:08:53 AM
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Thirty seconds of charge time? Doesn't sound hugely unbalanced to me, considering the fast pace of deathmatch.
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More like 10secs. you dont NEED to load up the whole mag, you can just wait for like 5 shots and shoot just them.
Title: Magnum.
Post by: DiscoZombie on December 16, 2004, 01:42:35 PM
was it a bug or a feature?  I didn't get to try it 'fore they took it out...
Title: Magnum.
Post by: Clashen on December 18, 2004, 01:53:56 PM
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was it a bug or a feature?  I didn't get to try it 'fore they took it out...
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bug
Title: Magnum.
Post by: Keyser59 on December 20, 2004, 07:24:03 PM
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Thirty seconds of charge time? Doesn't sound hugely unbalanced to me, considering the fast pace of deathmatch.
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It wasn't really overpowered by itself, it just made the pistol more useful than the smg. Most people would just run around charging their pistol, fire, then switch to the smg. The bug wasn't practical in combat, but it did give an added chance to magnums, crossbows and rockets.
Title: Magnum.
Post by: TheAdj on December 20, 2004, 08:24:59 PM
All the insta gib weapons had a weakness.  The magnum did not.  It got nerfed.  It isn't a problem anymore.  Problem solved.
Title: Magnum.
Post by: lolfighter on December 22, 2004, 08:11:58 AM
I'm not surprised at all. Sounds like an oversight to me. Come to think of it, wasn't the standard HLDM magnum just as strong?
Title: Magnum.
Post by: lolfighter on December 23, 2004, 08:32:59 AM
Oh, ok. I remembered it as being 100% accurate and rather deadly.
Title: Magnum.
Post by: Clashen on December 28, 2004, 11:09:17 AM
waa?
the Magnum in HL1 ROXED, along with the zoom
Title: Magnum.
Post by: Clashen on December 28, 2004, 05:29:49 PM
i dont  give a damn aboiut HLDM competetive, it roxed on public noob HLDM servers. DOT.