Author Topic: REQUIRED READING FOR PLAYERS  (Read 13544 times)

November 28, 2004, 05:30:26 PM
Read 13544 times

Architeuthis

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2 nights ago, I came home and read a post by GrayDuck, in the admin forums, that made me very angry. It was the last straw; I couldn't stand admins arguing over crap that didn't matter anymore, thinking those things were what was hurting the server. She mentionned that a couple of people approached her and said LM was going downhill.  I decided to ask people what they really thought.

I spent the last two days talking to people and putting this thing together. I talked to 53 different people. It was incredibly interesting and I learned a lot.

Here it is. Hopefully you guys'll learn something too. Please read this in it's entirety before reading the rest of my post and replying.

http://www.angelfire.com/ga2/galinstar/the...ade_private.txt

Last minute edit: someone just PMed me and wanted in
<Anonymous> can i be an anonymous man
<Anonymous> and say something
<Architeuthis|NOTHERE> ?
<Anonymous> to the forum post..
<Architeuthis|NOTHERE> Yes?
<Anonymous> so cna i add my 2 cents?
<Architeuthis|NOTHERE> Shoot, I'll see what I can do.
<Anonymous> ok
<Anonymous> I really believe the anti-script mantra has acted as a stimulant of both the bad reputation of LM and slightly the server's downfall. In the wave of blockscripts 0, LM has decided to keep scripts disabled and I personally have been flamed for mentioning scripts in the server.
<Anonymous> but remember,..im anonymous
<Architeuthis|NOTHERE> No problem
<Anonymous> hehe

That's about it. Don't reply with useless posts, make them worth it. And don't point out who you were, or try to guess who someone was.

Admins, please stay out of this thread and use the one I put up in the admin forums.

Now if you'll excuse me, I've been putting off finishing Metroid Prime 2 ever since I started this thing, so Samus has a date with the final boss.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2014, 08:21:45 AM by Lightning Blue »

November 28, 2004, 06:50:21 PM
Reply #1

esuna

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Great job archi, the crusade is complete.

Good to see some of the opinions out there, negative or otherwise.

*Waits to see what comes of the crusade*
Hint: Use Guided Mode for helpful prompts

November 28, 2004, 07:13:47 PM
Reply #2

LowCrawler

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This has been very productive, IMO.

Great work, Archi.

November 28, 2004, 07:18:02 PM
Reply #3

Mr.Bill

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Archi, if there were more rs/admin like you... Lm would be a perfect place.


Then again.. could we handle that many penis drawings? :-D

But honestly, I was reading through it, and a lot of it is dead on, it gives info from every angle, not just some guy whos had a bad day and lost to 3 shotty rush's in a row. it's from EVERY perspective, and the most important ones show up the most... maybe someone could go through it and get a scoreboard of most repetative problems. (not you archi, youve done enough work as is. )

 
Hows my comming? PM!

For the win

November 28, 2004, 08:27:57 PM
Reply #4

Loke The Sleek Peruvian

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Really good job Archi, it's really good to see other people's comments.

Now we have to  see what comes out of this.

EDIT: Wow just 5 posts....are people avoiding this thread? o.O
« Last Edit: November 28, 2004, 08:30:36 PM by Loke The Sleek Peruvian »
I am Sleek.

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November 28, 2004, 08:39:48 PM
Reply #5

Decimator

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I think most of us have already said what we wanted in ye large text file.
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Alert code one.  The temperature is twenty degrees below zero.

November 28, 2004, 08:57:15 PM
Reply #6

Legionnaired

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Cool. So what's the plan, Skipper?

November 28, 2004, 09:18:30 PM
Reply #7

Anarki3x6

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Really good job Archi, it's really good to see other people's comments.

Now we have to  see what comes out of this.

EDIT: Wow just 5 posts....are people avoiding this thread? o.O
[snapback]34463[/snapback]

probably just following the thread rules :)

i honestly read only about half the conversations, and most i agree with what people say... nice to see people talking about the problems.
-_^

November 28, 2004, 10:11:56 PM
Reply #8

Nuketheplace

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I really don't have any complaints about the admins.  Maybe this is because I've made it my job to stay under the radar and not piss anyone off.  I really can't comment on that.   However I do think that its interesting the only way people came out and said what they were thinking was when Archi promised that they would go under the guise of anonymity.  If we have to remain anonymous when speaking out minds I think that says enough about the community.

November 28, 2004, 10:50:44 PM
Reply #9

That Annoying Kid

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AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

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esuna> LB reswhores too much. STOP GOING ONOS! XD
<Architeuthis> Hahahahaha
<Architeuthis> I'll put that at the end :D
<esuna> every. single. game.
<esuna> without fail
<Architeuthis> I've seen him go gorge
<esuna> liar
<esuna> you take that back
<Architeuthis> No really!
<Architeuthis> But maybe he hit the wrong key?

IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE IT'S TRUE!   :lol:  :o  ;)

hence why every game LB is in I make it a point to swing by the hives around the time it takes to get enough res to pwnos


archi, one thing I forgot to add was TLM is going in the right direction with no spawncamping rules, but I believe that it's a good thing to punish excessive spawncamping, or spawncamping soley to get almost to the top of the scoreboard, but yelling at people for spawncamping in a tactical manner should be less frowned upon.

that being said TLM is still a fantastic place to play / chill at
MAC DRE: Cold Crest Creeper, a rapper that would dip-n-yoke quicker than he could pimp-n-smoke, flows  that hit your ears harder than Ike hit Tina. Forced to serve a Nickle but would never drop a Dime.
K.C watch out cause the Bay's down like four flats on a Cadilac.

November 28, 2004, 11:07:10 PM
Reply #10

Leaderz0rz

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well he never told me it would be posted or anon so i have no problem with people seeing what i said.

i think one of the common things that came up in the txt dump was the fact that NS as a game is going downhill which causes servers to go downhill.. personaly i think we should post this on the ns forums or send it to a dev, to show that one of the really great NS servers is slowing down due to the game slowing down. they might already know and not care but its worth somthing atleast. I think some people just need to realise its a game, and you win and lose. people get seriously to worked up over losing.

November 28, 2004, 11:47:34 PM
Reply #11

EmperorPenguin

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What an amazing undertaking Arch.  It really opened my eyes to a lot of things that are going on, of which I was only familiar with a few.  I've always felt that it was a privilege to be a part of this community, so I didn't pay a lot of attention to the little things.

What I gathered from reading that fat file was that if we could all take things just a little less seriously, especially those in power, then maybe things would be better.  Of course, that's much harder than it sounds, and not easy to guage either.
"What is it that makes a complete stranger dive into an icy river to save a solid gold baby?  Maybe we'll never know."

November 29, 2004, 12:00:51 AM
Reply #12

Leaderz0rz

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just to add some more.. after reading more the responses.


LB is a good guy, he is fun to talk to and just shoot the breeze with.  Being the single person in charge of maintaining a server and its community can be hugly stressful, i'm not saying this an excuse for the accustions that some people said. Personaly I've never seen LB ban someone for "killing him 4 times" hell i've killed him before 2x in a row when he as an onos etc and he never banned me, jsut called me an arse ;p. I think some people are just mad at him becuase they were banned..

Grayduck: You seem to be a nice person, but honestly I don't know anything about you. When you were made an admin it kind of striked me as odd since you were so new to the community, but didn't really concern me since I don't play NS anymore.

As far as banning good players go. Most of the "good players" that were mentioned were banned for being assholes and having the "better then you" attitude.  Or breaking rules over and over becuase they think they are stupid.

As far as Ura goes, yes he can be an asshole and he is infamous for his enjoyment of arguing with everyone about everything. I used to hate him and argue with him all the time. But once you get to know him he is auctaly a cool guy to talk to. I think he crosses the line alot with his posts, but thats just the way he is. Again that isn't an excuse for his actions on numerous accasions. Vinne I've never talked to so can't/won't comment.

I think i'm done ;p

November 29, 2004, 09:10:44 AM
Reply #13

confused!

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it was an interesting read i have to say.

The real question is: where we go from here?

Particularly now that our dirty laundry is all public. by the way those socks smell like 5 day old meeces.
HUEG SIGNATURE IS NUKED

November 29, 2004, 09:11:04 AM
Reply #14

Kitana

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Ok so I've only posted a couple of times in these forums ever.  I am not that involved in these forums or the channel (although I idle to support) mainly because I have a lot to deal with already with my cs clan.  I hate cs.  

I love the server.  Love it (and its not just because I ping 15 there :D).  If I ever forget how much, all I have to do it be up at 2AM when lm is empty and I'm dying for some good ns and I have to go play at NSArmslab or Texas HK Palace and I instantly remember why I love it so much.  I love the way its run.  It isnt like any of the other servers.  There is never chaos or exploits or hax or racism.  I go for a good game of ns with good players and thats usually what I get.  

Arch I am really impressed at the level of commitment it took to do your survey.  I read the whole thing and learned a lot.  If there is anything I can do to help just let me know.  I love the server and would hate to see it go.  


-Kit

November 29, 2004, 09:31:56 AM
Reply #15

Legionnaired

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OOH! IDEA!

So, Clanners and other HARDCORE people hate LM, right? Lets bust a cap in that image of us as a skill hatey server with the LM OPEN!

Host a clan tournament, double elimination, with any team of 6 being allowed to enter. We could get a good 20 teams or so up on it, get publicity from Zunni, throw it on rr.org, and breath some life back into the competitive game all at the same time!

We could also take demos of the games, analyse the outcomes, and apply some of the things we've discussed as far as balance issues to it. We'd become a microcosm of the entire NS community, and be able to go to the devs and state our case for what needs changed and how in an erudite and effective manner...

We could change the whole :D ing world!
« Last Edit: November 29, 2004, 09:32:09 AM by Legionnaired »

November 29, 2004, 10:30:18 AM
Reply #16

esuna

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OOH! IDEA!

So, Clanners and other HARDCORE people hate LM, right? Lets bust a cap in that image of us as a skill hatey server with the LM OPEN!

Host a clan tournament, double elimination, with any team of 6 being allowed to enter. We could get a good 20 teams or so up on it, get publicity from Zunni, throw it on rr.org, and breath some life back into the competitive game all at the same time!

We could also take demos of the games, analyse the outcomes, and apply some of the things we've discussed as far as balance issues to it. We'd become a microcosm of the entire NS community, and be able to go to the devs and state our case for what needs changed and how in an erudite and effective manner...

We could change the whole :D ing world!
[snapback]34508[/snapback]

The only reason that clanners and such seem to hate us is because of the ban list. LM's banned a lot of skilled players, and a lot of people that can't sit back and say "Oh hey, i was banned, oh well," no, they just shoot their mouths off badmouthing the server. LM has a ban list featuring the likes of #cri and exi, without a doubt two of the biggest named clans out there, and if they say it's a bad, people actually listen.

The issue is that out of everyone that gets banned, the people in the clans are the ones that kick up a fuss, and unfortunately they're the voices that people will hear. Some random NSPlayer getting banned isn't going to get listened to by any of the NS community, but as soon as you see #cri banned, you'll see a negative reaction from the community as a whole just because they can't shut up and take it like a man.

People aren't just banned because they're in a clan, they're banned for breaking the rules.
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November 29, 2004, 10:39:24 AM
Reply #17

Crispy

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Well as someone who's never even played on the server it worries me to see what has been described as a good community go downhill. I'm always looking for decent NS servers to play on and initially this seemed like it could have been one of them, but if the problems are still present when I finally get 'round to playing some NS again (rl stuff getting in the way of this) then I'll probably be put off.

To speak as a pretty objective 3rd party, I'd say that there are certain things servers can do to encourage or discourage certain types of players. To be a bit more specific there's really no doubt in my mind that the blockscripts setting will have an affect on those who regular on the server. I used to have a severely nooby attitude concerning blockscripts, to me they were like the work of the devil. I think you have to bear in mind that not a lot of people are really clued up on scripts (I know I wasn't), but after reading a lot of info on different types of scripts I must say my opinion has changed to a certain extent. Some scripts are still the work of the devil (imo) but there are some that (again imo) are perfectly permissable, and wouldn't ruin the game if more awareness was created about them. It's a pity that server admins such as yourselves can't simply draw a line between certain types of scripts to allow a more competitive gameplay, and have to decide between bs_1/0.

I think that catering for a more competitive game on your server won't put people off, in fact I think it would get rid of the noobs (I use the term noob not in a hateful way but to describe those who make a fleeting pass at playing games/mods without caring about it or others). 'If' there was some way to be a bit more leniant with scripts then I'm sure the games would start becoming 'fun' again. Those who really wanted to play NS would soon learn the ins and outs of a more competitive gameplay and stick around for the fun that can be had in a good community.

I don't think that a server community should be in any way defined by who idles in IRC and who actually plays on the server. The two (imo) are seperate entities, which can by all means overlap, but shouldn't be seen to be an 'are you in or are you out' social gathering.

On the topic of admins there's a lot to be said. If you have bad admins just get rid of them. If they make changes in their attitude and maturity then they can always be re-instated but Admin status should be a privilege and not a right to be abused. Nothing destroys a server's community or reputation more than a bad admin staff. A good team will keep the server free of 'unwanted' players (by unwanted I mean those who abuse rules and/or players), a bad team will lose respect from the players and consequently (as in your case it would seem) from the general gaming community (NS). Being kicked for playing the game is the worst thing you can ever experience on a Pub server, what's more it usually puts you off for a good while before you're prepared to venture back. Sort out the Admins and you'll solve your side of the problem. If the only thing wrong with people's playing experience is the game itself then you'll soon find out how much of a community you have.

Looking forward to seeing how things turn out...

Crispy
A lovely thing to see:
through the paper window's hole,
the Galaxy.

November 29, 2004, 11:03:46 AM
Reply #18

Mr.Ben

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I do not fear the lack of anonymity, if the admins wish to ban me for the following statements then fine though it'd do nothing more than justify my responses and only strengthen this "we're right, you're wrong" image that the LM admins have got amongest the community at large.

In my opinion LM has downhill and the major route of this problem is the "I can do what i like" attitude. I respect that you pay for the server LB, i respect the work, the money and the time you've put into this server and give you mad props for it. However the attitude you use to govern your server passes down onto both the players in the community, not just old but new.

Things such as blockscripts 1 because you say so is a poor justification, all it does is spread misinformation about scripts. If you'd care to justify it with a real reason and have an intelligant and mature debate about it then sure, but "my way or the highway" isn't the best way to run a community server i'm afriad. This attitude of scripts are bad and they'll not go over my dead body then passes down to other players, this is then passed onto new players who buy into it, why wouldn't they? LM is a respected and well known community so how are they to know otherwise?

So yes, blockscripts 1 and your reason for adding it is my first problem with LM, not just the blocking of scripts yourself but your reasons for the decision are pretty weak at best. Just because someones a freely elected president doesn't mean they can commit genocide, just because it's your server doesn't give you the right to push an anti scripting agenda.

My second issue with the server is spawn camping. This rule has been used to ban so many players who have been happy people though nearly always to a high skill level. You can claim all you like that you don't prejudice againist skilled players but lets look at the facts here, how many HIGH skilled regulars are left? 1, 2? Go figure.

Here's an idea, why not remove the rule entirely, add an umbra spawn protection for aliens and stop hindering gameplay? Hurrah! You see umbra spawn does what it says on the tin, aliens spawn in umbra. Lone marines can't spawn camp that unless the aliens are totally asleep and lets face it, they aren't going to win in that situation anyway so by not spawn camping and ending it quickly you're breaking the "dont drag a game out rule."

The rules are out of control and do nothing but hinder gameplay, i hate to have to stop and check myself to make sure by standing in this corridor or blinking in MS i'm not violating a certain rule and will end up with a post in the PR forum. That's not fun, that's a pain in the ass and when rules start to interfere with the game like that then you have an issue.

My final qualm is about the PR forum. (what a link!) Well maybe not the PR forum but some of the justifications for bans used. Quite frankly they're a joke and i find it humerous that the best advertisement for avoiding LM is in your public relations forum. "Hi i'm u235, i don't like you, i don't need to justify, prove or backup my actions, i have insubstantial evidence and you will now be banned for looking at me cock eyed, goodday." Really good PR there, no wonder LM is growing so much and so many new individuals are joining, with adminning like that where could you possibly go wrong?!


<3 BenjamiN/Benny/MrBen - Washed up clanner, ex-contributor and forum troll.
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November 29, 2004, 11:40:55 AM
Reply #19

Malevolent

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Well, good job on compiling all of this. It took a long ass time to read, so it must have taken awhile to write. ;) I agree with the fact that we need to give more leeway. I play on the server quite a bit, however, and it seems that most of the bans (now at leat and when I'm on) are pretty much justified. Also, most of the bans I see are usually temporary. I haven't been around much when well-known players get banned, so I don't see the circumstances of their ban.

Anyone who is a regular NS player who frequents the NS forums or that is in a clan should know LM's rules by now. LM comes up all the time in debates since it is pretty well-known, and many people do not like the rules (such as blockscripts). But they cannot expect to come on the server and not get banned if they are in deed truly spawncamping or breaking other rules. I have seen people deliberately (sp?) spawncamp,etc. although they know it's against the rules. So for now, follow the rules.

I do think that some of the rules should be changed (mostly in line with what people said in the .txt). I have lived, and will live, with the rules as they are now. I still can have fun with them. I know it doesn't hinder my gameplay that much. I hardly ever worry about spawncamping,etc. because I know the rules and have adapted to them. But things need revised.

To people out there who do not like LM (not like they will see this really) or people who don't play on it as much because of the rules, you can see from what Archi did that we are trying to consider other viewpoints and make the server a better place.
It's twice as clear as heaven and twice as loud as reason.