Overly Chatty Penguins

The Ready Room => Media => Mapping => Topic started by: BobTheJanitor on May 28, 2004, 10:14:56 AM

Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on May 28, 2004, 10:14:56 AM
IRC: #lm-map

Since the last thread ran out of steam, I'm giving this one last try with a nice new shiny thread. Does anyone want to take part in an LM community made ns_ map? Anyone with anything to offer is invited. If you have no clue how to map, then you can help with layout and theme suggestions. Or backstory. Or cheerleading, or something! If you DO have mapping ability, that's also quite welcome.  :p

If anything comes of this, I'll edit this post to keep track of who's involved and who's working on what. So please list IF you can commit anything to this, and what you can commit. I'll attempt to work as an organizer, and of course as a mapper. I KNOW several of you have map skillz. Think of it this way: the more people we get involved, the more likely you can pass the difficult parts off to someone else. EH? EH????

---

Bob: Mapmonkey work, organization (hah!) etc.
Clashen: Sprites
Niteowl: Official cheerleader in a feathered skirt.
TAK: Story stuff
Foundit: Ideas
Lancer: More ideas
Sancho: Will actually help map! WAHOO!!
Dubbie: More map help
Mr.Ben: Refuses to help, so bother him with all your difficult problems
Decimator: Mapping, and loves to do hint brushes  >:D
Fewpid: Will make us the best layout EVAR.
Confused: Will help map in spare time.

Saved for future use, from IRC:
<BobTheJanitor> fear not, MrBen, we'll just come to you when we need infestation work done >:D
<MrBen> oh i'll do that :)
<MrBen> i wuv infestorizing
<BobTheJanitor> YOU ALL HEARD HIM
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Clashen on May 28, 2004, 10:57:33 AM
I can map, but i find it very boring nowadays since VHE is just struggling.
But just talk to me if you need any sprites done for the map and i can give it a shot ;)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on May 28, 2004, 11:55:12 AM
So noted! Who else is on board?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Niteowl on May 28, 2004, 11:57:16 AM
SIGN ME UP for hooting and cheering and whatnot of the sort of work that isn't actually work!
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: foundit on May 28, 2004, 12:09:03 PM
I can cheerlead.  I am also a very good critic.  I am a good brainstormer.  

How about a map theme that revolves around the a crash of a spaceship: It could have cool pieces of wreckage scattered about, half of a ship that you could enter and exit, and maybe even add some cool resource node touches (such as out of a stump of a tree or some sort of alien flora.)

I no nothing of mapping.  But I can try and come of with some more ideas.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: That Annoying Kid on May 28, 2004, 12:49:54 PM
since I'm a self-appointed fan-fic expert [some of you may remember when I used to own the fan-fic forums on the NS boards], I can work on map story etc
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: -Lancer- on May 28, 2004, 03:06:21 PM
im up for brainstoprming too. ppl say i have a crazy imagination.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on May 28, 2004, 03:20:57 PM
Well we're getting a lot of help with ideas. And I'm sure plenty of people will pile on to playtest once the map is done. The main question though, is who will help me BAKE this bread? Is there no one who wants to get their hands dirty actually making the map? Just think, unless we come up with something that sucks utterly, we can probably be guaranteed a spot in the LM map rotation. Eh? Tickle your fancy any?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: -Lancer- on May 28, 2004, 03:27:49 PM
wish i could help but i dont know the first thing about programming games....

If theres anything i could do though, just ask.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Sancho on May 28, 2004, 07:37:33 PM
Ahhh, you're trying the ol' DoD map productions thing, eh bob?  For those that don't know, Bob is in an AHL clan that specializes in mapping.  They'd have one person work on the map, then pass it on to another person, then to the next person, and keep doing that until it was done.  Works great, but there should be only one person that controls the general layout.  The rest shouldn't touch the gameplay much, IMO.

I'm the absolute worst mapper ever, but I can try to help if needed.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on May 28, 2004, 08:13:36 PM
Does ECB want to get involved? I know he's done some mapping. On that note, did he EVER finish his AHL map?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on May 29, 2004, 12:27:08 PM
I shall throw my lot in with my fellow mappers.

But we still need a godforsaken overview/layout.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Mr.Ben on May 29, 2004, 03:30:45 PM
Mapping is wondeful, mapping is fine, i like mapping i do it all the time.

Or not, as the case now is. Afraid i can't lend you my hax this time.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on May 29, 2004, 05:07:17 PM
Quote
Mapping is wondeful, mapping is fine, i like mapping i do it all the time.

Or not, as the case now is. Afraid i can't lend you my hax this time.
well at least make us a layout, you lazy piece of crap  <3
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Mr.Ben on May 29, 2004, 06:25:08 PM
:blink:
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on May 29, 2004, 08:14:13 PM
I can help with the actual mapping, just don't ask me to do hint brush work, ugh.

edit: I also have an old layout from a map I never finished that we could possibly use.
edit2: punctuation
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on May 29, 2004, 08:40:24 PM
Here's the layout for ns_inconvulsus.  Feel free to rip into it, change it, or reject it outright.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Fewlio on May 29, 2004, 10:18:12 PM
Haf, when im out of school I could also take a crack at making a layout :p. Mainly because I am sick and tired of horrible layouts, and want good layouts which dont have double nodes SURROUNDED by other nodes and hives. *cough*caged*cough*

But yeah, that layout which Decimator looks nice, except slightly too big with everything right next to each other... Looks like it might make Half-life choke o_O.

Yeah, i'll work on some layouts in a week and a half when my skewlio goes into summer mode, even if you guys leave me in the dust :D.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on May 30, 2004, 06:47:02 AM
I rather like that, Deci - I'm a big fan of the tightly interwoven type of level.


And Fewpid - we anxiously await your contribution.  We can have a vote-off!  Like Survivor: The Mapping Forums  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: confused! on May 30, 2004, 06:23:11 PM
ill help map, 'course I have a job, ns_richmond to finish, and php to learn. but, i may have a few hours hidden away to use. i appologize if im not able to check the forum often. but i have no intar web on my poc right now
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Ulatoh on May 30, 2004, 08:03:48 PM
not sure what i can do for ya, ask me to do somethng, an i'll tell ya if i know how

aside from mapping... i cant even get VHE configured right
i tried using that tut, and blah..
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Sancho on May 31, 2004, 03:14:38 AM
Quote
Does ECB want to get involved? I know he's done some mapping. On that note, did he EVER finish his AHL map?
He's almost done with it, probably within a couple weeks.  I'm sure he would give a crack at it, but he needs to finish the one he's working on first.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on May 31, 2004, 01:35:00 PM
Cool, can't wait to play his map if he ever gets done with it. /offtopic

For the time being, we do need to get some sort of layout done. I found this (http://perso.enst.fr/~cguerin/NSmap/index.html) to be a pretty interesting look at why some maps succeed in balance more than others. I know it says it's for 'competitive play' but regardless of whether we want a map that's competitively playable or not, balance is universal.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: That Annoying Kid on June 01, 2004, 02:13:37 PM
I say we make a hall of nubs style easter egg in the ready room


thats another thing I can do, is easter egg planning and organization!
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 01, 2004, 02:19:21 PM
Well one thing I'm pretty fond of is the 'inacessible detail.' So if we can work out a basic layout, (nothing too indepth, as I'm sure PTs would change it later anyway) then I'll be happy to start turning it into something fun. We just need some interesting concepts. Anyone got any general theme ideas we can start thinking off of?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: foundit on June 01, 2004, 02:29:16 PM
OK, what can I do, to help with a layout?  I have never mapped before.  Can I do like a mock-up in Visio or Corel?  Is there an easy to use mapping tool like Operation Flashpoint has, that I can mess with in order to flush out some ideas?  Where do YOU suggest I start? (Please do not tell me to RTFM)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on June 01, 2004, 02:44:52 PM
My word....

edit: nevermind, spam removed
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 01, 2004, 04:00:11 PM
I'd suggest looking at the existing map layouts, trying to figure out what works, what doesn't, and why. Then try and come up with a layout that would be good for those same reasons. It doesn't have to be terribly detailed, really. Just an indicator that you can walk from point A to point B, and where res towers go. Bear in mind the basic layout guidelines. It should take > 30 seconds to run from MS to a hive. (I think it's supposed to be even longer, but most maps nowadays it's about 30 seconds) and no hive should be much closer or much further from MS than any other. Resources should be distributed evenly, one in each hive, one in MS, and then a few, but not too many more, inbetween them. I'm a big fan of choke points, but not so much one of double nodes. I'd rather have a map without a double node, or if we really want one, a double node that's almost impossible to defend. Those can be fun.

But yeah, a layout should just be a layout, don't worry about details or anything pretty. Don't really worry about where ladders go, or even vents, or elevators and such. Just a 2-d layout so we have something to start with would be great. If anyone wants to make one, it'd be a great starting point. I would, but I don't have any webspace to store anything on...
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 01, 2004, 04:25:23 PM
Aw christ.  Since everybody else seems too gosh-darn lazy, I'm gonna have to whip up something.  I hate you all.  :rolleyes:

Anyways, give me an hour or two and with luck I should have something passably cool.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 01, 2004, 05:06:40 PM
Actually, now that I've thought about it, another awesome idea has hit me.  Since this is a community-made map and a big collaboration, the layout will also be a collaboration.

Here's what I have so far - I'm not all that happy with it, but I've never actually made a nubbly PLAN beforehand before  :p   So the next person, now that we have this started, can edit in what they want to add.  And definitely feel free to change anything that I have so far :)


Blue spots are potential res nodes
Orange Spots are potential hives.
Gray Lines are vents
The rest should be kind of self-explanatory.

Anyways, BEHOLD.  And work like busy, busy ants and get your bit planned!

(oh yeah - and it's 800 x 800 pixels, to allow for enough room.  Sorry for the hugeness)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 01, 2004, 05:11:21 PM
MS doesn't have a res node. WTH is that tiny room off MS supposed to be, the bathroom? And I always thought it'd work better to get the layout first and then add vents wherever they seem appropriate.

(Isn't working with other people FUN??)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 01, 2004, 05:15:36 PM
Quote
MS doesn't have a res node. WTH is that tiny room off MS supposed to be, the bathroom? And I always thought it'd work better to get the layout first and then add vents wherever they seem appropriate.

(Isn't working with other people FUN??)
Yeah - I didn't know where to put the node or the CC :(  I figured I'd put it in that "bathroom" (which in actuality I planned to be more like the place where the node is on Ayumi)

But uhh...the vent thing is true - I'm a nubcaek :-p


....which is also most of the reason I'm passing the burden off in such a fashion. :help:
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Majin on June 01, 2004, 05:43:15 PM
I'm going to Take Deci's Paint IMG and clean it up with PS and make the lay out more of a blue print.  If thats OK with you DECI?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on June 01, 2004, 05:59:05 PM
Of course it's ok.  Like I said, feel free to rip it apart.  It was originally made in a program for making 2D games so it's rather blocky.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: foundit on June 02, 2004, 08:39:39 AM
Here is my first attempt.  Do not rip it apart! :)  Just kidding.  Any mods, critiques, or suggestions are much appreciated.

Is Hammer a tool I should try?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Uranium - 235 on June 02, 2004, 11:24:13 AM
Angled hallways make Batch Compiler cry.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: That Annoying Kid on June 02, 2004, 12:00:52 PM
Quote
Well one thing I'm pretty fond of is the 'inacessible detail.' So if we can work out a basic layout, (nothing too indepth, as I'm sure PTs would change it later anyway) then I'll be happy to start turning it into something fun. We just need some interesting concepts. Anyone got any general theme ideas we can start thinking off of?
never hurts to be prepared


do you think a HON style easter egg ala LM style would be a good idea?

[edit]
N, not L
[/edit]
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Black Mage on June 02, 2004, 03:16:43 PM
i can help with being a pathetic nub

or i can make up ideas for easter eggs and help with textures
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 02, 2004, 04:32:31 PM
First, thank you for finally get us something to start working with. This is what I'm talking about. VERY basic, no place names or anything. Just a connect the dots style layout. Woohoo.

The angled hallways, like uranub said, would be bad stuff. Generally hammer makes your life a lot easier if you feed it nice straight hallways, or hallways turned diagonally at nice easy angles. LOTS of diagonal hallways will add a lot of unneccesary work. Eww!

Also, that's more nodes than I'd like to have. Think of games on, say, ayumi or agora vs. games on metal or eclipse. The first two have lots of nodes. Both teams can have lots of nodes at the same time and tech up pretty fast without any early game skirmishes. Games on those maps often end with lots of higher evolved lifeforms throwing themselves repeatedly at a turreted up MS full of heavies and heavy weapons, or alternately they end with marines teching up fast and stomping through the hives. Metal or eclipse on the other hand, have a minimal number of nodes, and none of them are very friendly for either team. You get a lot of smaller conflicts over individual node control. And it's easier for either team to manage a map with only, say 9 nodes, over one with 15 nodes.

I do find it interesting that you've got MS sort of in one corner, but also with a path going around the far side of it. That might be worth looking in to. Allows aliens a way to sneak past MS and to a hive on the far side if they want to. I'd probably pull all the resnodes out of that area though. It'd already be strategically important for its own reasons.

Always keep in mind choke points and siege positions too. The top right and lower left hive can be sieged from areas that it looks like marines would be practically safe in, except for vent access on the lower right. (to the round room) But if marines have HA/HMG, vents won't do you any good. Onos have to be able to get into siege positions too. (probably the reason the sewer siege in ns_agora was totally changed from its old design)

I'm going to have to go beg Zazi for some hosting I think, I'm starting to feel bad offering nothing but criticism and yet not posting anything of my own! >.<
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 02, 2004, 06:03:57 PM
^^

Upload it to the forums, nublet  :huh:  :lol:


Well, I'm oh-so-tempted to get crackin', so I'm just gonna map some style tests - after which I'll post pictures and we can see if anything fits the idea in everyone's head :)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Mr.Bill on June 02, 2004, 06:36:51 PM
I'd help with anything needed... but not too sure what I could do other then agree basicly with everything bob just said :) (damn there's no proving wrong that guy!) so if you need something that is somewhat of an odd job ill be here...
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 03, 2004, 05:04:52 PM
I felt like mapping something, so I whipped up a quick resnode area for a style test.

Any crits, etc etc?  Anything, and I mean anything can be changed.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 03, 2004, 05:05:33 PM
Aaaaand go figure - I forgot the attachment.


 :rolleyes:
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Uranium - 235 on June 03, 2004, 06:52:37 PM
Needs lens flares.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 03, 2004, 06:58:33 PM
Nice. I like a map with a lot of vertical fun, layout wise. High dark ceilings mean extra fun for ambusing skulks, blinking fades, and jetpackers. The texture choices are spiffy too. Got any more sets you want to throw out? And by the way, do we have anyone with any skill at doing infestation?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 03, 2004, 07:51:53 PM
I've been using the v_wad texture set (FAM ROXORZ MY BOXORZ OLO), the Teck texture set, and the NOS texture set - all should be in your beta 4 NSP directory :)

That particular room is something of a silo - it's a circular shaft that goes straight up to a grate at the top with vents, etc etc leading off.  The actual node is on an "island" of sorts - I plan on making the deep crevices (that is, the areas past the railings) into blackness and put clip brushes there in order to keep anybody from getting stuck.  Also, i wanted to put some nice steam shooters all around the platform, but am an entity nub and decided to leave that to someone else.

Any more crits?  besides uranub being a nub?  :p

*edit* and those lights are actually red - not orange.  I had to adjust the levels in photoshop to brighten the picture up a bit.  So far, I've only added those red lights you see and the purple spotlights around the actual shaft.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 03, 2004, 11:49:41 PM
Yes! I love the whole walkway-over-pit-of-doom thing. It tickles me in my happy place. I'm all for basing more of the map on a similar theme. If we could just make a layout...
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 04, 2004, 02:13:20 PM
effing layouts...I like winging it  <3


Anyways, I'm gonna be gone until Sunday.  So if you need my benevolent presence before then, I do believe you're screwed  :p

If I don't see a layout by the time I'm back, there shall be hell to pay.  Much hell.  <_<
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 04, 2004, 03:11:39 PM
I've got some basic layouts down on paper. Zazi has offered me some hosting space in return for hawt loving, so I should have a place to upload to soon. I'll whip something up in mspaint (lol mspaint) and have it for us to poke and prod sooooon.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 06, 2004, 04:08:02 PM
Quote
I've got some basic layouts down on paper. Zazi has offered me some hosting space in return for hawt loving, so I should have a place to upload to soon. I'll whip something up in mspaint (lol mspaint) and have it for us to poke and prod sooooon.
k.


DO EET
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Clashen on June 06, 2004, 04:11:29 PM
Schools quitting for 10weeks here now, so i've got more than enough time to take up ampping again. But i suck and need training again so meh. I'll maybe take it up again.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 07, 2004, 12:01:02 PM
Quote
DO EET
Paper layout is down. I'd transfer it to mspaint right now if I thought I could get away with it at work...  :D  Should have it by tonight, if not bug me on IRC and make sure I'm not just wasting all my time playing NS.

EDIT: SI DONE.

(http://bob.thezazi.net/crappylayout.JPG)

Before you scream WTF, let me explain a bit. Firstly, and most importantly, this is ONLY A BASIC LINE LAYOUT. It only shows paths from point A to point B. Obviously a map made like this would be marine ownage, as all those straight halls would be murder. Instead of straight halls, think of the route from MS to generator hive on ns_caged. Layout wise, it's a straight line, no paths deviate off of it. In game it's all twisty and turny and goes through various elevation changes and so forth.

A few things to explain. The little arrows indicate changes in elevation, as I had a few ideas that might be fun with that. The crossroads just outside of the right hive (with the hard to see number ONE next to it) is actually not totally a crossroads. The east west path goes OVER the north south path. You can jump from the top path to the bottom, but you can't get from bottom to top without wallwalk, blink, JP, etc. This keeps marines from insta-rushing that hive, as it's not a very long jaunt from MS.

The room at the bottom, with the TWO in it also needs a bit of explaining. It's a sort of a siege area for the lower hive, and a larger room. It's also a pretty strong choke point. What I see here is the middle area of the room being lower, while the paths on the side that lead into the hive are actually higher, and are also inaccessible from the floor. Either you'd have to go through the north path (which runs under this higher level {briefly, as level over level is bad}) and then loop back around to get to the upper area again, or we might consider having a broken part of the upper catwalk area fallen down and acting as a ramp. It would at least limit traffic to a certain area and make battles for this room more interesting. I see this as an area similar to cargo on tanith. Very hard to hold for either team, but also very strategically important.

I've sort of tried to indicate the higher and lower areas with the dotted line that goes meandering through the middle of the map, but I think it's only served to confuse things more. If it doesn't make much sense, just ignore it. The layout is the same, the elevation changes are just to make it more interesting and they can easily be changed later.

It's got ten nodes right now. I might like to reduce that to nine. If I did, I'd probably take the node out of the very middle, as it's pretty close to the lower choke point room and controlling both of those areas would indicate excellent map control, and may not need to be rewarded with another node.

At the moment this doesn't include ANY vent paths. I'd probably add in some to connect the hive areas together, and maybe one of those fun old-skool vents into marine start to annoy marines with. (But one that it's hard to spore or bile bomb from, that's just too stupid)

So. Comments on layout? I want to hear from EVERYONE here. You don't need mapping knowledge of any kind, just experience playing NS. Does this look balanced? Res too far? Any res look too easy to hold? Any hive look like it would be a death sentence to start in? Can you think of a strategy here that would be unbeatable? I've tried to make enough paths around that ninjas would always have some method to sneak a PG somewhere. WoL lovers, what would you lame up to control this map? Comms, where would you turret farm? HELP ME MAKE THIS PERFECT!!!
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 07, 2004, 04:33:44 PM
Quote
Quote
DO EET
Paper layout is down. I'd transfer it to mspaint right now if I thought I could get away with it at work...  :D  Should have it by tonight, if not bug me on IRC and make sure I'm not just wasting all my time playing NS.
Sounds like a planz0r.   And thee shall be duly slapped if thee dost not produce.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: devicenull on June 07, 2004, 04:50:35 PM
Look!

The blue lines are vents that are needed, as the aliens could be locked into the right most hive with 2 tfarms

That center hive becomes a double node, and the marines can be confined to some areas with a few WOL's
I'd say you need to add some more vents

Marine start needs to be switched with the middle hive
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 07, 2004, 04:53:24 PM
Quote
{Ye picture}
Seems not too problematic then. WoLing those three areas would require a good bit of gorgey work, so it'd mean the marines were probably good and trapped in base. And Tfarming both of the red areas would require building one and then walking through the hive and back out to get to the top area to build the other.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: devicenull on June 07, 2004, 04:59:01 PM
You forget about mine ladders!
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 07, 2004, 05:01:29 PM
We have ways of making mine ladders a huge pain. OH YES, WE HAVE WAYS....

I'm not sure what they are right now, but I'll think of something. And I suppose spending ten res on a temporary ladder in order to bypass walking right through a hive wouldn't be too exploitative. I'd see it more as creative use of available resources. Besides, the next gorge that waddles by could just spit your mines down.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: devicenull on June 07, 2004, 05:04:49 PM
Nother one

Needs a good vent system to keep marines on their toes!
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 07, 2004, 05:07:57 PM
Here's a spot that my little portion I'm working on can fit (give or take)


I also drew a mini diagram of it in the upper right, as you can see.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: devicenull on June 07, 2004, 05:15:21 PM
Gah, nm
Dont want to confuse you all
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 07, 2004, 06:57:49 PM
As far as vents go, I'm all for just building the map first and then squeezing vents in wherever they seem appropriate. I am however a big fan of interesting vent details. Not a lot, but things like the little infested room in the vent from port engine to... wherever in nancy (confusing vents go everywhere) is neat. And N Corridor in bast is the coolest. A whole hallway hidden in the vent system = win. So before we get too slap happy with adding lines to this, can I get a yea or nay on the basic layout? I'm assuming everyone is okay with it as is. I guess we can start building basic and undetailed rooms to get a dull but playable version in order to see how it plays in some real games. Then if something totally sucks, it's no pain to chop it out and start over. So this is your last chance to complain about the line layout. Next step will be the filled layout with rooms and hallways in it. Then everyone that said they'd help map is going to feel the PRESSURE to start producing!

Edit: Dev, what do you mean about 3 RTs + hive? I'm kind of confused on that point. There's an RT in the hive, there's an RT outside the hive in the choke/siege room. Where's the third? You mean the one down the hall? That's not exactly IN the same area at all...

Bonus Edit: Dubb, your area has the RT off in that little round area on the edge right? So you're saying just put it there where the corner turns? That'd be cool with me.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on June 07, 2004, 07:22:55 PM
I'm a big fan of the centralized vent system.  If we did this then I think we should make the vent room filled with water and weldable, similar to the seige room on ns_metal.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 07, 2004, 07:23:37 PM
Quote
Bonus Edit: Dubb, your area has the RT off in that little round area on the edge right? So you're saying just put it there where the corner turns? That'd be cool with me.
Precisely :)

I've already started to build the part of the hallway that turns left at the corner, and will hopefully eventually make my way back to the marine spawn.  Unless someone else wants a piece of that - in that case I can find other things to do.

I'll get some stuff lit and textured and hopefull make a post tonight :)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Majin on June 07, 2004, 07:43:29 PM
Dubby, you make the nicest MS Paint Maps EVAR!
 :lol:
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 07, 2004, 07:47:52 PM
Quote
Dubby, you make the nicest MS Paint Maps EVAR!
 :lol:
I know it's something you might expect outta me, but that was all bob.  :lol:
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: devicenull on June 07, 2004, 07:52:15 PM
@Bob.. there was a "2" with a res node below it.. I assumed that meant double node
@Deci.. that ruins the point of the vents.. they are there to help aleins get from point A to point B faster, not have to navigate an entire system.. besides if you wanted it realistically,
All the vents lead to one center point, but they also intersect other vents, making movement faster
Metal's vents arent totally centralized, thats way to much for a map.. you would have vents all over the place, and it would  be chaos

I will say we need one vent on either side of MS, and they need to be connected

@Marine start, I think it needs to be moved farther away from that hallway, its withing sieging distance, and you might have SC through the wall
Look at my 2nd picture to see what I mean
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 07, 2004, 08:07:17 PM
I've added the room I've been working on in basically the place where It's gonna sit - but this way, it's kind of close to the hive and the resnode outside the MS that the arrow is gesturing to.

SO my suggestions would be to move that particular node to mesh with my portion so far (the arrow and question mark in the upper right show what I mean).

And also to move the right-side hive downwards a little to space it from my node room.


And lastly, the little blue vent I've added on my part is more of like a maintenance corridor that I'm working on - I'll post a walkthrough of what I have if I can get some lights in there.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 07, 2004, 08:33:00 PM
Allrighty - -I'm just about dead from exhaustion, so I'm gonna stop here for the night.  i only had a chance to do a little of the lighting, so most of what you see is pretty incomplete (not to mention really, really dark)


But anyways, i have a series of 5 pictures showing the progression through my section as of right now.



Picture 1

This is the first little hallway I've done.  it has a rather high ceiling and leads to a resource node (which i have noted on the layout above) that is on a platform in the middlke of a pit.  Because pits are sweet.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 07, 2004, 08:34:36 PM
Picture 2

This is a little closer view of the res node - the red lines that I have added I want to make into neat-looking steam fountains (coming from around the platform).  Unfortunately, i have no idea how to do that and am gonna need help  :p
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 07, 2004, 08:36:51 PM
Picture 3

This showcases the aforementioned maintenance corridor.  The entrance is over the entrance to the actual res node shaft.  it then proceeds off to the side (don't worry if you don't get it - you shall eventually).  The red ladder is where I want to ideally add a ladder so marines and onii etc can get up there.  And I'll probably add a ladder on the opposite side too.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 07, 2004, 08:39:30 PM
Picture 4

This is a shot from inside the maintenance tunnel.  As of now i only have three red lights and the computer monitors you see down the hall as llighting, so I don't blame you if you can't see a hell of a lot.  or anything, for that matter.  :huh:

There are pipes all around and traveling down the length of it, and I want to add the gushing steam spray sprites that can be seen in metal, bast, etc etc.  I also want to use the fog sprite used in hera's maintenance corridor to haze up the thing a little.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 07, 2004, 08:41:20 PM
Picture 5

This is the exit to the maintenance hatch (off to the right.)  There will be a ladder going downwards and meeting up with the hallway underneath (which happens to be the hallway that leads to the room where we started this little tour)

This one's especially dark.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 07, 2004, 08:42:50 PM
Anyways, that's all for now, folks.  I'm a dead man walking and really need some sleep.  I'll add some lighting and, more importantly, some atmosphere tomorrow.

If you have any criticisms, suggesitons, questions, condemnations etc etc feel free by all means :)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 07, 2004, 10:59:44 PM
I don't know about making that the node that is at the crossway, as that particular point is supposed to be accesible only by taking the southern passage, looping around through the hive, and then back up. Recall that crossover there is where a catwalk is supposed to go OVER the north-south route. HOWEVER, it would be no problem to make that the RT for the hive. It's close to the hive, and it's not easily accessible by marines without walking through the hive, so it won't have the annoyances of normal RTs outside hives. Of course, if it is close to the hive, you may need to stick some infestation into it. If that doesn't float your boat, we can move it somewhere else, or figure something out.

Can you get me an idea of the textures that you're using so we can keep thematically similar throughout the map? Or we could start coming up with a theme for the map that generally matches those textures, and then follow it through the rest of the map.

IDEA PEOPLE. Space station? Abandoned base? Underwater research station? Nuclear power plant on the SURFACE OF THE SUN??? Let's get a theme going.

And those screenshots are SUPAR SEXY, btw.

Ye Edit: Let's just not worry about the vents for now. You guys are going CRAZY on vents. Bear in mind this means that skulks lerks and fades get free run of the map. Choke points are pointless if they don't actually CHOKE anything. With the vent layouts seen so far I could run from any hive to any other hive AND to MS without ever seeing a marine. That's not so good, eh? Vents are shortcuts, they're not alternate routes entirely! Go take a good look at the vent layout on some of the more balanced maps (eclipse, veil, lost, tanith, etc.) and you'll see that they're very strategically placed to allow clever aliens to get places unnoticed, but not to act as an alien superhighway.

Boy I love to EDIT: Dubbi, steam is great, just remember that every burst of steam requires a particle system, and every particle system requires an entity. And entities are at a premium on ns_ maps. You can play fast and loose with them on co_ maps as you don't have as much space to fill. On an NS map every door, every elevator, every weldable, every particle system, every light overlay... in short, almost EVERYTHING that makes a map look cool, takes up entities. We've only got 275 of the little buggers to play with, and they'll go fast if you don't keep tabs on them.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Niteowl on June 07, 2004, 11:38:02 PM
a theme.....

a theme... hmm.... how about a station inside a ginormouse LUNIXMONSTER!! you can have windows that look out into guts and stuff! yummeh!

er, or.. yeah, surface of the sun sounds cool.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 07, 2004, 11:46:24 PM
BUT HOW CAN MAN LIVE ON THE SURFACE OF THE SUN???

Oh, wait. Nanites. Right.

NITEY, you need to comment from the comm's perspective on the map layout. How does it strike you? Hard for marines? Too easy? What would your generic strats be? Where would you look to lock down? You see any places that could win the map for you and look like they'd be too easy to take? I NEED INPUT, MAN!!!!!

Yet another Edited post: Considering the original map layout, not the one with one zillion vents. Assume vents connecting the hives and that's about it for the moment.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 08, 2004, 05:23:10 AM
Quote
I don't know about making that the node that is at the crossway, as that particular point is supposed to be accesible only by taking the southern passage, looping around through the hive, and then back up. Recall that crossover there is where a catwalk is supposed to go OVER the north-south route. HOWEVER, it would be no problem to make that the RT for the hive. It's close to the hive, and it's not easily accessible by marines without walking through the hive, so it won't have the annoyances of normal RTs outside hives. Of course, if it is close to the hive, you may need to stick some infestation into it. If that doesn't float your boat, we can move it somewhere else, or figure something out

I've made and attached a diagram showing what I meant by moving the hive and 'crossover' downwards, to get a little distance between them.  I basically made the exact correct layout of my room and put it precisely where I was building it for.  The red boxed area shows where I believe another room should go - a chokepoint (this also serves to elongate the marine journey from the relatively-close MS)

Quote
Can you get me an idea of the textures that you're using so we can keep thematically similar throughout the map? Or we could start coming up with a theme for the map that generally matches those textures, and then follow it through the rest of the map.

I've been using the v_wad an awful lot, as well as the teck texture set (used on nothing, etc etc).  I was trying to keep away from the ns2.wad textures because they're on basically every flipping CO map and otherwise in 3.0.  So I'm trying to keep a basic, old-school grungy look going rather than a super-clean Ayumi feel.  

Now, there's also the question of lighting - I'm not sure that I'm entirely satisfied with the lighting I've been doing.  If it were up to me, my vote would be to continue what I had to stop doing with ns_dubbilex and make the scheme green and blue with red used to denote areas of danger (vents, holes, claustrophobic areas like the maintenance corridor, etc etc). But I'm definitely up for suggestions :)

Quote
IDEA PEOPLE. Space station? Abandoned base? Underwater research station? Nuclear power plant on the SURFACE OF THE SUN??? Let's get a theme going.

Hmmm - the idea of an underwater facility really intrigues me and I think it's worth pursuing.  Has anybody ever played the seabase level of Deus Ex?  I think that would make an eminently cool map if adapted for NS.  Also, it gives us an excuse to have lots and lots of awesome windows that look out at underwater cliffs, chasms, what-have-you.  So that's my vote - a submersed base under an ocean.


Quote
Boy I love to EDIT: Dubbi, steam is great, just remember that every burst of steam requires a particle system, and every particle system requires an entity. And entities are at a premium on ns_ maps. You can play fast and loose with them on co_ maps as you don't have as much space to fill. On an NS map every door, every elevator, every weldable, every particle system, every light overlay... in short, almost EVERYTHING that makes a map look cool, takes up entities. We've only got 275 of the little buggers to play with, and they'll go fast if you don't keep tabs on them.

The way I'm envisioning it, I would only need maybe 3 or 4 shooters around the platform and just the big long hera fog sprite (so another one entity).  So we could definitely keep it below 10 in this area and still achieve a really awesome effect.  But that, like everything else, is up for discussion.



Anywho, when I get home tonight I plan on doing some more brushwork and fleshing out the general area around my place.  I'll light it better, add some cool details, and will hopefully be back in here later today with some more things to share.

Until then, Dubbilex out  B)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 08, 2004, 08:18:29 AM
Well come to think of it, you can easily make particle systems generated by entities. So maybe if we wanted to make a big nulled out func_illusionary in a circle around that and then have that as the generation entity, that might work out. The only trick is that the steam will always shoot in one direction. So it's pretty much have to be straight up, as anything else would look odd. That way we could get away with a mere two entities for the steam effect, the func_illusionary and the env_particles_custom.

I may try and crack up hammer and start some work on the central choke point room and middle hive area tonight. If I can drag myself away from all my other distractions. I'll also try and get a decent filled line drawing of the map so we have something more solid to work off of.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: lolfighter on June 08, 2004, 08:42:36 AM
What you're saying is that a gush of steam shooting sideways out of a vent/broken pipe/leaking boiler/whatever will continue going in that same direction, not arc upwards like real steam does?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 08, 2004, 08:46:25 AM
WELL yeah. This is just the ancient and decrepit half life engine after all. NS's particle system is just a hacked up sprite shooter basically. You can change the area that the sprites generate in, and you can change the direction that the system shoots off in, but without making seperate systems you can't make  them shoot in totally different direction. They will shoot sort of randomly within given parameters though. But they definitely won't shoot out to the left and then float up to the ceiling or somesuch.

Edit: (I haven't edited anything in a while) @ Dubb - it seems like with that maint access area  you've got some sort of level over level thing going on. Is that the case, or am I seeing it wrong? Remember that level over level is a big no-no except in very limited applications. You either can't drop stuff on the lower level or on the upper level. Have to make it small enough that you can move your view over to the side of the upper level and see the level below it or something similar.

Actually looking at you diagram it looks like the entrance is near the node but then sort of jumps off to one side. If that's the case then carry on, everything is fabulous.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: fatty on June 08, 2004, 01:07:42 PM
all of the hives look like double nodes pretty much. maybe you want to spread the rts out more. ns_eclipse is the PERFECT example of rt placement in my opinion. as a gorge in the first 30 seconds to drop a quick node, you don't feel "safe" anywhere on eclipse, i like that.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 08, 2004, 01:14:32 PM
Quote
Edit: (I haven't edited anything in a while) @ Dubb - it seems like with that maint access area  you've got some sort of level over level thing going on. Is that the case, or am I seeing it wrong? Remember that level over level is a big no-no except in very limited applications. You either can't drop stuff on the lower level or on the upper level. Have to make it small enough that you can move your view over to the side of the upper level and see the level below it or something similar.

Actually looking at you diagram it looks like the entrance is near the node but then sort of jumps off to one side. If that's the case then carry on, everything is fabulous.
Yep - as you can see in picture three, the entrance of the maintenance vent thing is right above the entrance to the RT platform.  But I made it veer off to the side and go around the outside of the room.  So yeah - there is that one little bit of the way that you can't actually drop anything, but it's both in a really bad place to drop anything and in a depressed area.  

What I'm saying is that basically, the only thing you'd be dropping there are medpacks and ammo anyways.  I realized this was a no-no but I really liked how the actual vent connected with everything, so I kept it.



And regarding the nodes - I want as few nodes as possible, myself.  To be perfectly honest, I think a double-node would be a bad thing, because those things just tend to speed up the game.  A good 9 or 8 nodes seems like a perfect amount to have (1 in the MS, 3 for the hives, and 4 or 5 around the actual map.  But then again, this isn't my decision - does anybody else have any interjections or suggestions?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 08, 2004, 01:45:12 PM
@ fatteh: Bear in mind the first thing I pointed out. That is a connectivity layout ONLY. It does not indicate the actual hallways, only that you can get from one place to another. If you saw the same layout of eclipse, you'd probably think that all the hives looked like double nodes, but it's just not the case.

@ Dubb: I don't like lots of nodes either, it makes the game messy. The map as is only has 10, the requisite 4 for hives and MS and six scattered about the map. I think dropping the node out of the room north and west of the big room outside the middle hive would be a good choice, because that room is already a minor strategically important choke point. (I mentioned this earlier too) So that gives us only 9 nodes. The map with the fewest nodes (eclipse) has only 9 nodes. I don't think we'd be able to go any lower than that.

And there are NOT any double nodes. The number TWO was there to indicate the area for POINT TWO in my post. Are you people reading? AAAHHH!!!!!! I don't like double nodes, especially outside a hive, that'd just be ridiculous.  :help:
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Niteowl on June 08, 2004, 01:49:46 PM
GIMME MORE NODES!!!
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 08, 2004, 02:18:36 PM
BAH!  You'll get no more nodes! You'll probably get FEWER nodes. So there!!!

And yeah, that's intended to be a major choke point. But it's also two levels with a catwalk on the upper level. The upper level has the only access to the hive, the lower level has the only access to the north-western room (which is also chokey) and the two areas may not be connected by any sort of ladder or stairs at ALL... maybe. Some PTing will be needed to figure that out. But yeah, probably only 9 res nodes. SO THERE.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Niteowl on June 08, 2004, 02:48:06 PM
for more analysis, i need better info on the rooms, an dwell, lets face it kids, MORE FREAKING NODES, YA DECK SWABBING MOP LOVING CUSTODIAL ENGINEER!!!!!!
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 08, 2004, 02:48:25 PM
Quote
... But yeah, probably only 9 res nodes. SO THERE.
GUD

See, my comlaints about many nodes is the fact that more nodes speeds the game up dramatically, only contributing the the "slippery slope" problem.  The less nodes, the less res will come in, and therefore the games will be longer and harder-fought.  Basically I can tell you this from simple experience - basically every new NS map (Ayumi, Agora, etc) has too many nodes, so half of the actual map isn't even used (rather, whoever caps the nodes firsat just skips through the map killing whatever they desire.).

So in conclusion, I'm much more of a fan of old-school style maps that are more focused on actual gameplay than they are on resources.  SO THERE.

*EDIT*Oh yeah - I'm gonna try to get some demos of my little part, just to run through everything and make sure everyone knows how it's gonna fit together.  But later.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 08, 2004, 04:19:15 PM
NARRR no more nodes. I think nine is perfect. All the good maps are in that exact range. Eclipse has 9. Veil has ten, two of which are a double node. Tanith has ten, again, with a double node. Lost has eleven, one of which must be welded in to. Nothing has ten. Pretty much all the maps that people would agree are well balanced have a smaller number of nodes which are positioned so that none of them are very safe for anyone to grab and hold on to reliably. That makes for the fun games.

Like I mentioned, I think getting a BASIC playable version of the map is important first, and then PTing it. It won't be very pretty without all the nice looking details, but it should be functional. Then we can start screaming over how well it plays with a certain number of nodes and so forth.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: devicenull on June 08, 2004, 06:06:33 PM
Heres one without the two vents running parallel to each other o.O
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 08, 2004, 06:13:10 PM
ARGH! I'm going to put you in a vent and weld you inside, sir.

I'll put vents in between the three hives. Actually, probably vents to just outside each of the three hives, to allow travel across the alien side of the map. You should never be able to move from one hive to any other hive or to MS without having to step in a hallway once or twice or more. All the vent layouts so far have been WAY too venty. And confusing too. No ns_nancy style vents!
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: devicenull on June 08, 2004, 06:44:26 PM
What's wrong with nancys vents?
Vents = GOOD!
We do need a vent from one hallway in MS to the other
And you need vents that go to the obvious chokepoints
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 08, 2004, 07:15:44 PM
Quote
And you need vents that go to the obvious chokepoints
Wait - isn't that the exact opposite of what we want?  :blink:
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 08, 2004, 07:23:55 PM
Well, no. Vents that actually go into the choke points are fine. They make for even bigger battles. Like temp control on ns_lost, probably the most defining choke point in any NS map. Quick access to two hives, and not terribly far from the third, plus it's got an RT, plus easy access to most of the RTs on the map. The routes from anywhere to anywhere else go through that room. And there are two vents that lead into that room. There are also multiple leves, to keep it interesting. If it was a flat room, it would be marine ownage. It's also huge, as if it were a tiny room it would be alien ownage. That room is a paragon of the mapper's craft!

/rant off
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: lolfighter on June 09, 2004, 06:25:07 AM
You know, you have an excellent point there. Temp control made for some awesome battles in 2.01, I guess that ain't much different in 3.x. Chokepoints for the win! Also, nodes should really be a no-brainer I think: NS shows a tendency towards faster and faster rounds, the scales tip even sooner than ever before, etc. But I think we agree that we don't like this on LM. We like the long, epic games, right? Well, more res leads to shorter games, and to the scales tipping sooner. If the game stays 5-2 nodes for just a minute or two, it's basically over. Thus less nodes = longer games. YAY!
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: devicenull on June 09, 2004, 04:24:52 PM
I like vents for the very reason that I usually manage to run into a rambo like 20ft away from where i want to be, which angers me because I have to run across the entire map again.

Vents = WIN

I don't see what you have against a good vent system..
Nancy's was a bit confusing, because it was multi-leveled.. but the one I layed out is fairly simple, moreso with the minimap
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 09, 2004, 04:27:37 PM
Oh blah. Go back and read one of the ten posts I've made on the subject. Vents should not be replacements for hallways, basically. It makes for lack of conflict. No action makes a map rather dull.  :(
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: blasify wagiity on June 09, 2004, 09:20:02 PM
I'm up for helping out on this map when the design is finished...  At least once flaytona is done with and I don't have any more maps to work on there =P
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 10, 2004, 04:35:36 AM
Quote
Oh blah. Go back and read one of the ten posts I've made on the subject. Vents should not be replacements for hallways, basically. It makes for lack of conflict. No action makes a map rather dull.  :(
I have an idea - how about an official poll?  This is a community map - lets get the rest of the community's stance on the thing :)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: lolfighter on June 10, 2004, 06:42:44 AM
I guess that Bob's point is that vents should be a means to get TO a chokepoint quickly - not around it. Not having to go through a chokepoint means that it's no longer a chokepoint. Chokepoints are good. Vents that bypass them are not.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Niteowl on June 10, 2004, 09:15:03 AM
Quote
Quote
Oh blah. Go back and read one of the ten posts I've made on the subject. Vents should not be replacements for hallways, basically. It makes for lack of conflict. No action makes a map rather dull.  :(
I have an idea - how about an official poll?  This is a community map - lets get the rest of the community's stance on the thing :)
i'd prefer to see this as a totatarian regime for the map making, after all, they are doing hte ACTUAL map making :)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Leaderz0rz on June 10, 2004, 11:31:37 AM
there should be nodes in each hive and 1 in ms (duh) there should be 1-2 nodes MAX that favor the marines in location and easy assesbly, the rest of the nodes should favor the aliens but they should be placed in locations not to close to the hive. no double res please.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 10, 2004, 12:20:52 PM
@lead: That's pretty much what I'm going for. Look at the line layour (while recalling that it is not an actual layout of the way the hallways will go, just a connectivity diagram) and you'll see that's what I'm trying for. There's no double res.

@dubb: Yeah, I'm happy to argue map design with people who will actually be hammering out this map. In general, I don't want to bow to the whims of people who are not actively contributing to the map. Community made is one thing, and I'm happy to have community input and suggestions and use anyone's skills to the fullest. But to keep this from being a massive MESS, we do need some nazi-like leadership.  :D
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 10, 2004, 02:12:46 PM
Quote
...

@dubb: Yeah, I'm happy to argue map design with people who will actually be hammering out this map. In general, I don't want to bow to the whims of people who are not actively contributing to the map. Community made is one thing, and I'm happy to have community input and suggestions and use anyone's skills to the fullest. But to keep this from being a massive MESS, we do need some nazi-like leadership.  :D
Fine, fine, fine.  my vote is for 9 nodes.  

And tonight, I promise I'll get something else done - I didn't get a chance to even touch it yesterday.  But we'll see if I have something to show :)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 10, 2004, 02:23:07 PM
No problem, I've been slow starting too. I think I'll start up in the big choke point room with the multiple levels, as I think I'd have a hell of a time explaining to anyone how I see it working, I might as well just do it myself. From there I'll try and work into the nearby hive and out in the other directions. From yours you can either work down that hall towards MS, or the other way towards the hive. Or jump on another point completely, if you want.

Anyone else that volunteered for mapping work, the call to arms is now. Remember, it doesn't have to be pretty. As long as the walls are textured and it doesn't leak, we can pass it around and pretty it up later. I want a functional map first so it can be PTed for balance, then we'll worry about adding neat bells and whistles and particle effects and nice lighting and all the fun stuff. So where are my brothers in mapping?  :help:
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 10, 2004, 03:37:10 PM
Quote
No problem, I've been slow starting too. I think I'll start up in the big choke point room with the multiple levels, as I think I'd have a hell of a time explaining to anyone how I see it working, I might as well just do it myself. From there I'll try and work into the nearby hive and out in the other directions. From yours you can either work down that hall towards MS, or the other way towards the hive. Or jump on another point completely, if you want.

Anyone else that volunteered for mapping work, the call to arms is now. Remember, it doesn't have to be pretty. As long as the walls are textured and it doesn't leak, we can pass it around and pretty it up later. I want a functional map first so it can be PTed for balance, then we'll worry about adding neat bells and whistles and particle effects and nice lighting and all the fun stuff. So where are my brothers in mapping?  :help:
*raises fist*

Well, I think I'll work on the right side of the map (from my little area that I've thus far started down to the hive on the right side).  The only problem with this is that I've never done infestation before, and will probably need someone else to pick that up  


And one last question:  What the crap is the gamma compile command?  I can't seem to get the bloody thing to work. :help:
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on June 10, 2004, 03:47:33 PM
I call the west hive! :p
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 10, 2004, 04:04:00 PM
Quote
And one last question:  What the crap is the gamma compile command?  I can't seem to get the bloody thing to work. :help:
Uhm, which are you talking about? The entity that sets the gamma ramp for the map, or a switch at compile time? And if you're not compiling with batch compiler and using xp-cagey's p15 compile tools, I will have to devour your brain with a side salad.

Edit: Cool Decimator, that works. Just use the layout as a guideline and add any twists in the corridors that seem appropriate. Leave some long straight paths so marines aren't always owned, but put in nice ambush corners too. Wee!
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 10, 2004, 04:08:58 PM
Quote
Quote
And one last question:  What the crap is the gamma compile command?  I can't seem to get the bloody thing to work. :help:
Uhm, which are you talking about? The entity that sets the gamma ramp for the map, or a switch at compile time? And if you're not compiling with batch compiler and using xp-cagey's p15 compile tools, I will have to devour your brain with a side salad.

Edit: Cool Decimator, that works. Just use the layout as a guideline and add any twists in the corridors that seem appropriate. Leave some long straight paths so marines aren't always owned, but put in nice ambush corners too. Wee!
nein - I never had the patience to set the silly batch compiler up  B)

But that's a good point - I probably need an env_gamma for the gamma to be able to ramp.  I'll add one (a temporary one, because it will probably be replaced by another in another portion of the map).  we also need a unified lights.rad file - I onyl have about 6 textures on mine, all used in the map so far.




And without further ado, I unveil a new screenshot of this maintenace corridor deal replete with purdy lighting  <3


EDIT and yeah yeah yeah - I'll work on architecture rather than obsessing over one area from now on :rolleyes:  


*grumble*
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 10, 2004, 04:18:30 PM
Purrrrdy.

And yeah, basic architecture building is what they make people do all day long IN HELL. I pretty well despise it too.

*build, build, build* *texture texture* "Okay, time to start adding fun stuff!"

Satan: "NO YOU WILL NOW GO ON TO BUILD MORE DULL HALLWAYS BWAHAHAHAHHA"

"But, Satan, what about lighting, and steam vents, and some nice vertex manipulation?"

Satan: "FOOLISH MORTAL! YOU WILL ADD TWO BASIC LIGHT ENTITIES SO YOU CAN SEE THE HALL WHEN YOU COMPILE, AND NOTHING MORE!!! AND I WILL POKE YOU WITH THIS STICK WHILE YOU DO IT! I'M SO EVIL!"

Ahh but then once we get it all into place, then it ALL becomes fun decoration and tweaks. Yay!

Edit: Set up your computer based on yon thread: http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/in...showtopic=50171 (http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=50171)

It's a little bit of work, but not nearly as much as you'd think. Your map will thank you for using batch compiler, trust me.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 10, 2004, 04:30:19 PM
Quote
...

Edit: Set up your computer based on yon thread: http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/in...showtopic=50171 (http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=50171)

It's a little bit of work, but not nearly as much as you'd think. Your map will thank you for using batch compiler, trust me.
I've actually followed that tutorial twice now to no avail  :p   The first time, I just plain had no iudea what i was doing (when i was just getting into mapping about a year ago).  The last time I tried was a few weeks back, when this was first suggested.  The problem then was that the "Zoners Custom Build Backup HLFix OptPlns" download link was b0rked.


But I digress - what are the actual benefits to using the batch compiler other than the extra speed?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 10, 2004, 06:10:09 PM
I've got the .bcs file if the dl is still borked. And mainly just that, the nice speed of having it do everything for you with sexy checkboxes instead of having to do commands -with -lots -of -switches /Z.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on June 10, 2004, 06:36:36 PM
What overbrightening value are you using Dubb?  We need to make sure we're using the same value or everything will get messed up.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 10, 2004, 06:39:21 PM
Quote
What overbrightening value are you using Dubb?  We need to make sure we're using the same value or everything will get messed up.
In those pictures, absolutely none.  Since then I've added an env_gamma with a ramp or 2
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 10, 2004, 11:50:34 PM
Two can be a bit bright. I like something in the range of 1.5 - 1.7ish. But don't worry about it too much right now, like I said, we just want to get the dull geometry out of the way and then worry about pretty lights.  :D

Edit: Okay, I'm still moving slow and I didn't get any work done last night. Tonight I'll at least try and get a basic filled layout of sorts that shows elevation differences. Since we're each working on different bits at a time, we'll need to know where they line up so we don't start buiding all sorts of variations into our areas and then get left with a massive headache when we try to stick them together. I'm still not planning on making anything too exact, I want us all to have freedom to improvise to make things interesting. But, once we get this layout in place, we should probably slice it up and define who is working on what. Oh, and I do have a basic vent scheme now . ;)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: confused! on June 11, 2004, 08:45:26 PM
hey guys. i plan i reading whats happenied but ive been working a little. ok, 65 hours this week but i plan on reading the thread in the morning and having some idea whats going on. have no ear i havent forgoten you and i have sunday off so it should be my big chance at fun for the week so ill try to gt back in tehn
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 12, 2004, 07:06:26 AM
Quote
... have no ear i havent forgoten you and i have sunday off so it should be my big chance at fun for the week so ill try to gt back in tehn
Oh my GOD you should get that checked out!  :o  :o  :o   :lol:


But anyways, again yesterday I was too busy to even open up hammer.  However I have nothing to do this afternoon, so Ill do my best to bravely forge forth as well.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on June 12, 2004, 07:32:44 AM
I've built the basic hive room, but I'm not sure how to proceed with the hallways around it.  Do we want a fairly narrow path to the node, or a room or two in between?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 12, 2004, 03:24:50 PM
Well, I'm trying to leave some of the design decisions open so you can have some freedom with it. So build it however you want, with a few things in mind: 1. It's a hive, so short halls around it, don't make it too marine friendly. 2. Don't put the res node too close, but don't put it too far away either.  :p  3. We might need to coordinate, as the area I'm building (or will be... any time now... eheheh) will be stretching over to meet your area. 4. Elevation! And I still don't have the layout up that shows elevation changes... I'll get right on that...
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 14, 2004, 07:12:08 PM
Double post, but I'm bumping for the new elevation layout.

(http://bob.thezazi.net/layout2.jpg)

Should be pretty straightforward. The "E" in the middle there is an elevator in that room.

Also, dubb, I had a cool idea for the crossover area near what you're working on. Make it a long ventilation shaft going down past visibility and make both the paths come out of the walls as catwalks. Railings optional, depending on how much falling to one's doom we want.  :p

I tried to sort of show that on the map with the white circle indicating the ventilation shaft area. Sound cool?

The elevation change areas are obviously not that steep. Stairs or ramps should be applied as necessary. The area on the middle left side is a sort of a double staircase, which is why the elevation goes from highest to lowest right in that area. That's about the only way to make it fit in properly and also slow down alien movement to that elevator room, which I imagine will be a pretty important point.

Also, I finally added some rudimentary vents. That's about all I'd like in there for now, and more can be added or changed after PTing gets underway. Any more questions, comments, problems, insults, etc?

Bear in mind that this is STILL rough, feel free to change up your areas as needed, as long as they conform to this general layout scheme.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Uranium - 235 on June 14, 2004, 07:14:54 PM
I'm still debating on joining this, but there's some big important things I have to ask before I do consider: Mainly, what is the theme of the map?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: devicenull on June 14, 2004, 07:20:18 PM
I know you don't like vents, but without the one I added, I feel that that leftmost RT becomes a chokepoint.. control that you take part of the pressure of marine start, then tfarm up the other side..
Without it if you take the left most RT and tfarm it, you only have half a base to defend
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on June 14, 2004, 07:20:35 PM
The theme is "walkway over giant pit of doom."
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 14, 2004, 07:23:44 PM
I thought the theme was "Uranium is a hawt man-beast."?  :blink:

Actually we don't have a theme yet. We're getting layout and basic blocky hallways out of the way and then prettying it up. At one point undersea station was mentioned, but that's about the only idea that's been thrown out so far. We could probably use a few more.

Honestly, thus far the map is a 2d drawing of blue blocks, and a couple rooms that have been half thrown together. It could be ANYTHING.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Uranium - 235 on June 14, 2004, 07:26:49 PM
GAAAAAAH


ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS HAVE A THEME IN MIND BEFORE YOU DICK WITH A LAYOUT!


Why? Because certain 'bases' need unique architechture and design.

A space station has airlocks and hangers, meaning rooms and hallways out towards the edges (Unless you want a joke like ns_bast where the control room looks at the back wall of refinery and the 'engine' is for some reason way off to the side)

A mining colony has manufacturing and processing rooms daisy-chained together.

A planetside base has living areas and maybe big research labs.

A power facility has huge turbine rooms.

Looking at the layout, it doesn't really look like it could fit ANY theme besides a planetside base, and those are boring, since you can't really justify any unique stuff in it.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: blasify wagiity on June 14, 2004, 07:27:03 PM
Even a pirate ship?

EDIT: WAY TO GO URANIUM, posting before me.  Now my post makes no sense. :mellow:
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Uranium - 235 on June 14, 2004, 07:37:26 PM
Oh and I said this in IRC, I'll say it here just so everyone notices - I STRONGLY recommend using my ns_desolate.wad for the map


Has:

- Low res versions of ns2.wad: These are good because you can use 4x the textures, and easilly make them look better with detail textures.

- Lots of custom goodness, including other various .wads I've been allowed to merge into my superwad:

wrongwaygoback - ns_remix.wad
Venomus - ven_ns_11.wad
Fam - v_wad.wad
Yamazaki - co_poseidon.wad
Chrome Angel - CA_CThru.wad; NS_CA_Infested.wad; CA_Mini_ns2.wad; NS_CA_Infested2.wad
Erias - erias_grit_remix.wad
BrigadierWolf - Nanosludge texture.
ESUNA - For the Nanosludge sign. HERE's YOUR HUGE CREDIT (at the bottom of the list :D)

Obviously, should we use this .wad, it's for use on NO OTHER MAPS BESIDES ONES I WORK ON (agreement made with certain wadholders)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 14, 2004, 08:02:24 PM
Quote
Double post, but I'm bumping for the new elevation layout.



Should be pretty straightforward. The "E" in the middle there is an elevator in that room.

Also, dubb, I had a cool idea for the crossover area near what you're working on. Make it a long ventilation shaft going down past visibility and make both the paths come out of the walls as catwalks. Railings optional, depending on how much falling to one's doom we want.  :p

I tried to sort of show that on the map with the white circle indicating the ventilation shaft area. Sound cool?

The elevation change areas are obviously not that steep. Stairs or ramps should be applied as necessary. The area on the middle left side is a sort of a double staircase, which is why the elevation goes from highest to lowest right in that area. That's about the only way to make it fit in properly and also slow down alien movement to that elevator room, which I imagine will be a pretty important point.

Also, I finally added some rudimentary vents. That's about all I'd like in there for now, and more can be added or changed after PTing gets underway. Any more questions, comments, problems, insults, etc?

Bear in mind that this is STILL rough, feel free to change up your areas as needed, as long as they conform to this general layout scheme.
Sounds excellent - and looks very nice to boot.  Regarding the crossover pathway room; this is something that can definitely be done.  I'll get to work hewing some rough brushwork to see if I can capture what you're thinking.

@uranub: the wad sounds good, as it encompasses the lurvelly v_wad.  All the rest are just gravy.



Anyways, tomorrow I'll get myself working on the map again, when my time is freed up. <_<
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Uranium - 235 on June 14, 2004, 08:24:38 PM
ns_remix and ven_11 aren't too fancy, but co_poseiden is mainly good looking textures. I don't remember what was erias_remix, but chromeangels textures are very useful as well. The BrigWolf and Esuna one were custom for ns_desolate.

PS: I'm a big fan of you wall_yellgray texture sets. They're hard to use, but look DAMN nice if you can use them correctly (that and I have detail textures already set up for em :p)

Also, I'm a big fan of Atmosphere. Slow opening creaky doors, rumbly slowly descending elevator compartments...
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 14, 2004, 11:44:19 PM
The trick is to find the knife-edge balance between atmosphere and gameplay. I too love atmospheric maps, bast is and always will be my most beloved map because it looks so good. But the gameplay balance on it is right out the window. (Although the b5 version will be better, hopefully) Veil or Eclipse, the old standby maps, are easily the best for balance. And even they have little issues that should be tweaked to make them more balanced. But at far as atmosphere, they have zero. It's just long hallways and wall_lab textures over and over and over. At LEAST eclipse has triad, even though it's been raped into brightness in the latest version, for the sake of balance. It's an eternal battle.

As nice as slow elevators rumbling down into darkness sounds, what you end up with is people always leaving the elevator down, jumping, and yelling "MEDPACK" as they fall. Hardly atmospheric...  

I like the idea of using inaccessible detail to add atmosphere. Darkened rooms visible through unbreakable glass. A crack in the wall too small to admit anyone, but wide enough that you can see another area of the complex behind it. The little teeny details that make you feel like you're part of a much bigger world than the map can possibly encompass. For the best examples of this I'd point at the tram tunnel on bast, with it's end that extends off past the tram into darkness. And probably the landing pad on hera. It was originally inaccessible in the 1.04 version, only visible from the glass walkway. That's perfect. A whole area built only to be seen, to add richness to the map without being just another room that you walk through.

And by the way, if at all possible, I'd like to make cover for skulks WITHOUT having any crates. Crates are soooooooooo overdone. Collapsed pillars, broken flooring, computer terminals that don't stick out of a wall for once... anything to add cover that's not just another damned box.

This pointless rant has been brought to you by staying up too late ™.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Uranium - 235 on June 15, 2004, 11:26:01 AM
Quote
As nice as slow elevators rumbling down into darkness sounds, what you end up with is people always leaving the elevator down, jumping, and yelling "MEDPACK" as they fall. Hardly atmospheric...

Why do you think I said 'Compartment'? Doom-style elevator platforms are retarded.

Anyway, I keep seeing people posting screens in IRC of what they've done. This map is going to be a piece of utter ^^ if we can't agree on what style it is. Someone wants a water pumping area, someone else wants space, it's just retarded right now. People are randomly making pieces and expect to paste them together in some terrible orgy of .rmf files.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: A Boojum Snark on June 15, 2004, 11:48:03 AM
Thats why you put a downward trigger_push in the elevator so if they jump and dont ride down they go SPLAT ^_^ >:D
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 15, 2004, 12:23:45 PM
Ura: Please don't continue to piss in everyone's cheerios if you don't have anything constructive to add.

So let's get a theme together, lest this map become a worthless heap of highly concentrated death.

Thus far the only serious suggestion we've had has been undersea station. That's OK, sort of reminds me of co_poseidon, which I didn't really like for some reason. The only idea I've had that I'd like some feedback on is a partially built location (of whatever sort it is, be it ship, research lab, colony, etc.) so that you can have areas that aren't completed yet, allowing for interesting design, and have some justification for weldables that turn on lights, open doors, etc. Basically powering up parts of the map. I always though that would add some fun to things.

Any comments or other thematic ideas, anyone?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 15, 2004, 02:54:53 PM
The theme for the (now lost and defunct) ns_dubbilex was that of an icy asteroid.  I had origibnally planned for the map to be some sort of installation on the surface of an asteroid or moon covered with snow.  I had a lot of pipes, and was going for some theme of a punmping station or something like that.  I had plans (which I never was able to actually flesh out) of having a large running theme of a big pipeline (i.e have a single, big pipe that everyone recognizes as the same pipe run throughout the map to add to continuity).

I never really thought about what exactly the pipes would hold/pump, but I really like the idea and it lends itself to some cool industrial themes.


Discuss.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: That Annoying Kid on June 15, 2004, 04:05:38 PM
can we have one large room that has 'grass' that is just tall enough for a skulk to run thru concealed? maybe throw in a resnode in the middle on a pedestal or something, or make it a seige spot.


that would be cool, large rooms are fun for jp/lerk/fade and the skulks will have some cover
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 15, 2004, 04:17:57 PM
If I could think of a possible way to add a biodome room in, that would be quite cool. It'd eat up a LOT of sprites though, to have enough grass to cover skulks well. With the way I see the map going, though, it seems more likely to keep with an industrial theme than anything that would invite a biodome to fit in anywhere.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Uranium - 235 on June 15, 2004, 06:33:03 PM
ns_desolate was (is?) a derelict space station. My main 'theme' to it was the presence of hazardous concentrated nanogel, and an interesting mix of abandoned, desolate areas (around hives and such) and very clean, pristine, 'sterile' areas.

The thing I don't like about underwater bases is it's just kinda a silly idea IMO. The Kharra come from another planet, moving between host spaceships like a virus. The TSA finds these infections and neutralizes them. Underwater is just wierd. A spaceship would be utterly incapable of making space flight, reentry, and then turning into a submarine, for a variety of physics reasons (the biggest one being that space ships are designed to hold pressure IN, and submarines are designed to hold pressure OUT). Just doesn't make much sense to me.

Bob, shut up. These are the kind of things you need to know BEFORE you start ANY work. I've done maps for other games, I've run managed and released my own mods with a team, so just listen to me. If this is going to be a halfway decent map at all we can't have 7 people all randomly working on whatever they feel like. "I want a biodome!" "I want a flooded area!" "I want space toilets!" You'd have a hive that's full of piping connected to a room in the wall_lab texture set full of crates with a flooded area of bright lighting between, and a junction made of dark, dirty textures. It'd be like taking a jigsaw puzzle and cutting the pieces so they all fit together how you want. It wouldn't make a picture, and it doesn't mean you've done it right.

The absolute first thing you need to decide is, as I said, the theme. The layout is a good springboard for the actual layout, but a huge chunk of a map's design is influenced by what the map's "purpose" serves.

As well, the absolute LAST thing we need are people coming in and putting in random pieces of map because 'it's cool'. You don't want to be designing a space station map, and someone starts taking their own liberties and you end up with worthless weldables and a billion pits of doom (which are fun, but impractical on many maps). This happened on my mod: Some coders decided to stop listening to me and start just throwing ^^ at the wall and seeing what stuck. Imagine taking a single room out of each official NS map and gluing them together. You'd probably end up with something like that. The left hand should ALWAYS know what the right hand is doing.

To avoid people from randomly making chunks of map, you need a strong theme, guidelines, and a layout first. We have an in-progress layout, no theme, and really no guidelines.



Theme is a hard thing to master. I spent a while on ns_desolate thinking of what I wanted to do. I settled on a station since stations not only fit the storyline, but allow you to take some great creative liberties. An undersea base is similar to a space station, but you lose a lot of potential atmospherics, namely in ambiance and lighting. Look at my ns_desolate screenshots, especially the marine spawn. I got a lot of compliments on that because the pink lighting fit so well, and really gave the map the impression of being in space.


So let's brainstorm a theme before we do anything else first. Note that one thing I don't like about many ns maps is that they have a theme, but they're not consistant, or simply have no theme. ns_nothing for example. Just playing through the map, it has no theme. It's just random rooms tacked together. It's a fun map to play, sure, but compare walking through nothing to walking through agora. Agora screams atmosphere, the upper areas are all themed to be a sort of 'living area', and the lower areas are all themed to fit the 'mining area'. If we settle on a toxic waste facility, then most of the rooms should make it LOOK like a toxic waste facility, not just one or two. A player should NEVER have to stop and ask 'What is the purpose of this facility?' If you make the map well, every room should scream that answer right back at the player. A power plant would have fuel rooms, containment areas, coolant outflows, and a big, noisy reactor.

Some ideas:

- A ship or freighter - Ships or freighters haul things around. Generally, they should follow a plausible layout: Engines and such towards the 'back', command and control at 'front', and the 'guts' of it (cargo holds, containment areas) all should be in the middle. They give you less flexibility in terms of layout, but they can be a lot of fun to make and design.

--- Cargo Freighter
--- Passenger Ship
--- Ore Hauler
--- Hazardous Materials Container Ship
--- Military ship
------ Destroyer
------ Carrier

- A station - Stations are more or less free-for-all. You'll have airlocks and access areas towards the edges, with cargo and power cores and whathaveyous towards the central areas. There should always be a lot of windows and such so that the little people on it can look out at the prettiness.

--- Shipyard
--- Colony
--- Off-site power facility
--- Manufacturing
--- Hydroponic Farming
--- "High Tech"
------ R&D Labs
------ Nanotech
------ Kharra Research
--- Military Installation
------ Defense Station


- Planetside base - Planetside bases can be designed a lot like space stations, but with a few other things to keep in mind: planetside bases are not usually self-sufficient, whereas a station probably will be. Also, since transporting materials to build it is usually much cheaper, you'll generally have bigger rooms and halls. A setting in space would naturally have more cramped quarters: That's the nature of things.

--- Launch facility
--- Colony
--- Military Installation
------ Missile Base
------ Launch facility
--- Power facility
--- Farms or food production
--- Mines
--- "High Tech"
------ R&D Labs
------ Nanotech
------ Kharra Research

Note that I'm not too fond of 'colony' or 'passenger' themes since they fall into the idea of maps like ns_eclipse: really no atmosphere or theme, just big halls and rooms that do nothing.

Finally, I've heard a lot of people saying 'OMG PITS OF DOOM'. If the map is like playing Super Mario Bros. it's a ^^ty map. Plus, you'd really have to justify the pits of doom. A passenger cruise or an R&D lab would have almost no pits of doom, if any at all. A mine most certainly would. A space-faring vessel of any type most likely wouldn't, or if it did, they'd be highly specialized: A pit of doom would fit nicely around a reactor core of sorts, but would be abysmally retarded just randomly placed in the middle of a room. Remember you want the players to think that this is a real facility, with a purpose. A contracting team wouldn't decide (in the case of ns_nothing) to leave a big bottomless hole in the middle of the generator room, when they could easilly cover it. Conversely, the EM Drill Shaft in Bast is a very good pit of doom: I can honestly believe there'd be something like that there.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 15, 2004, 07:03:30 PM
Thank you! That was minor harassment with a good helping of constructive ideas. And your approach makes sense, it's simply that mine is different. I'm getting the gameplay layout out of the way, the next part of the plan was to work on thematics and basic architecture, if you missed that part. By basic architecture, I mean rooms and halls with no details. A way to be able to playtest the layout. Trust me, I don't need to know that a hallway is 'central access corridor #3' or a room is 'hydroponics systems controls' or a vent is 'maintenance access crawlway 37' to be able to slap a box down and run around in it. Aside from dubb's nice work on that one RT, the plan was to get the boring boxmap done and PT the layout. Since this should realistically take almost no time at all to do, even if it were just ONE person working on it, I wasn't too worried about theme, as that can in fact be added on when the rooms are detailed. They're just boxes and halls, they can be moved, cropped, grown, or shrunk as needed.

I thought it would be more important to know if the map plays well than to do a whole lot of work MAKING a room look like 'research labs cryo storage' and then finding out that it needed to be smaller to play correctly. Hours of brushwork, entitywork, lighting, model placement, all gone because everything has to be moved around and some things deleted to make it work right. However, if that room is just 'big box with one light entity' it's suddenly not so difficult at all.

So, let's do what we can thematically to make everyone as happy as possible. What ideas do people like? I'd like a little input from the rest of the mappers involved. I've already mentioned the idea of a partially contructed location, but the remaining theme of that location is still up in the air. Does that sound good at all? Do any of the things that Uranium has so kindly suggested perk anyone up?

By the by, Uranium, do you want to take part in the actual mapping, or would you like to continue in your role of 'wise old mapping sage who likes to beat people with a sledgehammer occasionally' ?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Uranium - 235 on June 15, 2004, 07:44:50 PM
I'd like to be part of the mapping, if everything is ideal, but this is on a rough start so depending on how we go about handling 'ideas' (Look at the part about "I want a biodome!" "I want space toilets!") will ultimately decide. Simply put, one must really learn how to say 'no'. When I was making the mod, that was a critical fault of mine: My coders would make some ultra-BS-crap and I didn't have the balls to say 'Stop wasting time on this rubbish'.


Some of my favorites:

Hazardous Materials Container Ship
Military ship

A Shipyard
Hydroponic Farming
Off-site Power Plant

Missile Base


I'd say Off-site Power Plant wins my ultimate vote for having the most potential, with a Hydroponic Farm in close second, and tied with a Shipyard. All three of these offer great opportunity to introduce new hazards and such, and the Shipyard would be ultimate win for the 'Non-accesible detail'.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 16, 2004, 05:12:45 AM
Quote
... and the Shipyard would be ultimate win for the 'Non-accesible detail'.
Not to mention crazy r_speeds  :p


If we're just going on Uranub's suggestions alone, I believe I like the idea of an "off-site power plant," because that would make sense with the theme of the place I've done so far.

And by the way, uranium: the pit of doom isn't actually a pit of doom.  There's simply a walkway (a catwalk, really) going out to a platform in the middle of a shaft of sorts (it actually looks like the inside of a reactor or something).  I didn't just throw the "pit of dewm" in for kicks - it simply made for a cool, unique room.



Anyways, my vote is for power station or for my aforementioned pumping station.  Or maybe both  >:D
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on June 16, 2004, 06:06:16 AM
Possibly a planetside shipyard or vehicle prodution facility?

edit: actually, a pumping station would go well with a power plant also...
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 16, 2004, 09:00:26 AM
Pumping + power works, if you wanted it to be a hydroelectric power plant. This would require the use of some water areas, and I don't like water areas too much. They tend to be crappy for both teams. Marines can't shoot under water, and aliens lose all their speed advantages. But lots of water-as-detail would be okay.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on June 16, 2004, 09:14:39 AM
Well, pretty much all power plants need coolant of some sort.  So what we could do is make it toxic coolant or somesuch, so we can have our pits of toxic goo and our pits of doom for the reactor.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 16, 2004, 09:53:14 AM
I don't want this to get too far out, it's starting to sound like a doom 2 map. Pits of toxic death! Beware the flying flaming skulls screaming as they chomp your head off! And anything in NS is going to have the theme of a location that was once occupied by humans in some way and has since been abandoned after the aliens infested it. They have to have been there for a while, given that they've had enough time to infest a large part of the locale and get one hive up already. So the point being that anything that's still there would have to have been there without human intervention for a while. Pits of toxic coolant usually don't tend to just sit in a room for no apparent reason. Actually, they tend to circulate around the thing that they are cooling, then off to somewhere to dump their heat, and then back to pull out more heat. There's not a lot of siitting in a puddle to speak of.

If the coolant system is broken and has spilled out, then one tends to wonder why the marines are there at all when they can just wait for the reactor to take out the aliens for them, as soon as the inevitable meltdown happens.  :p

And don't forget to think of things in NS future terms. How does everything work? NANITES. Would they even have a power plant cooled by coolant? Or would it use magical nanotech cooling of some crazy sort? For that matter, would they even have a power plant at all... hrmmm... Would they just have a lot of nano-goo around and use that for all their power needs? Plague pretty much has the market cornered on nanogel storage and pumping in thorstation, so I don't want to lean too much into that area.

While I'm randomly babbling, geothermal heat is an interestng way to get power. It lends itself quite well to long vents reaching deep into the depths, and the reason for having them there makes total sense. Just promise me no one will pull a half life and have a giant fan shaft with a trigger_push that makes you fly up to the ceiling. So silly!
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on June 16, 2004, 10:04:20 AM
Hmm, Geothermal would also be a good reason to have water pipes and steam pipes going everywhere, as well as possible standing water from broken pipes.  Sounds like perfect hive conditions...
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: -Lancer- on June 16, 2004, 12:02:30 PM
we can also add many weldable areas to this concept. Because of geo-thermic activity there must be consoles that the maries had implemented to cause small earthquakes in specific places so that they can expand their base. But since the base was infested, this equiment is now offline.

Bada bing. we got a new weldable console that can cause an entire wall to shatter revealing a hive!

Comments?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 16, 2004, 03:51:00 PM
Makes an interesting idea as a one shot weldable, but I think we'd be leaning more towards the built up, metallic looking base as opposed to the rocky cave type base. (because it makes me think of mineshaft and then I get nightmares) And big metal walls shattering doesn't make sense, so much.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Uranium - 235 on June 16, 2004, 06:27:11 PM
Quote
And by the way, uranium: the pit of doom isn't actually a pit of doom.  There's simply a walkway (a catwalk, really) going out to a platform in the middle of a shaft of sorts (it actually looks like the inside of a reactor or something).  I didn't just throw the "pit of dewm" in for kicks - it simply made for a cool, unique room.
I know what constitutes a pit of doom (The water on co_daimos is a pit of doom, for example, because you fall in and die, and can't get out), and my point still stands: You have to consider if that pit would be there for any plausible reason.

Say we follow the power plant idea (which seems to be the most popular one). An easy way to make a pit of doom without having a stupid bottomless pit would be to make a short drop into arcing power conduits. Now, would you have that type of POD around the trasnsformers, or on either side of a hallway just outside the crew quarters? (Answer is the transformers: No one would put a deadly hazard right outside the sleeping area).


I'm not saying that 'YOU PUT A POD THERE, YOU LOSE!'. You WILL have to sacrafice design for balance at some point. But before you randomly put crushing walls and lava flows for 'balance', design the map like it should LOOK, not PLAY, first. PODs in stupid places can come later, if need be.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Uranium - 235 on June 16, 2004, 06:33:13 PM
Quote
Hmm, Geothermal would also be a good reason to have water pipes and steam pipes going everywhere, as well as possible standing water from broken pipes.  Sounds like perfect hive conditions...
This is what I was complaining about earlier ("I want a biodome!" "I want a pit of doom!" "I want space toilets!")

We're getting into a convoluted theme. The first idea was power station. Then it was suggested to make it a hydroelectric power station. Which means you're mixing a power station with lots of water (FYI a hydroelectric power station is the most boring place on earth. It's got only two main rooms: A huge turbine room, and a control room. Weeee...). Now we're doing geothermal power station so we can mix lava, power, AND water themes? What next, put a shipyard on it too? And a battleship? Keep in mind we have limits, and water tends to UNBELIEVABLY RAPE R_SPEEDS.

I'm just up for a basic, functioning, power station. A very 'sterile' feel around the marine areas (blue/white lighting does wonders for this, combined with steel colors), and due to the nature of reactors, you have LOTS of good places to plop alien hives and such.

And one VERY IMPORTANT thing that I hate: If per chance we did make this a hydroelectric powerstation, then any 'theme' water you use would HAVE to be lethal. Why? Because it's just STUPID that the Kharra would be magically contained within a tiny building, when there's an entire world full of potential life right outside the doors. The thing with the current official NS maps is that they're in space, or on hostile terrain, meaning they have to remain inside. A hydroelectric power station with clean, fresh water just makes no sense.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 16, 2004, 08:27:43 PM
Another reason why I like geothermal better. Heat can be transferred with no problems, and no worries about water flowing in and out. The rest of the world could be a barren burning desert waste. Or a fridgid icy waste. Or a vast airless waste. A planet with heat a mile or two below the surface doesn't have to look any particular way up top. So you have a few heat vents, some control areas, a small crew area, a docking area for supplies and crew rotations to be handled through, gives us enough to work with.

Edit: I want space toilets!!!!!  :p
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Uranium - 235 on June 16, 2004, 08:33:54 PM
Yes, we WILL have space toilets, no matter what (Some op was complaining that maps don't have toilets, so we have to have l33t futuristic spaestoilets.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 16, 2004, 08:54:48 PM
Quote
Yes, we WILL have space toilets, no matter what (Some op was complaining that maps don't have toilets, so we have to have l33t futuristic spaestoilets.
*pumps fist in air*


yesssssssssss
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 20, 2004, 06:08:13 PM
Bump for great justice. What's anyone working on? Or is yon mapping project going the way of the dodo?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 20, 2004, 08:28:27 PM
Actually, I intalled AvP2 today to get some inspirado - I took several shots to get ideas for architecture, style, etc.

I WAS gonna work on it tonight, but Salem's lot came on TNT and I got a wee bit sidetracked.  But rest assured - tomorrow I think I'll have more to show and all that.



And now the quintessential question - what have YOU been working on, olobobnub?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 20, 2004, 11:42:37 PM
LAYOUTS!!!! TONS AND TONS OF (two) LAYOUTS.

Yeah... I'm gonna get started on that section of mine reallllllll soon now. Like tomorrow. Yes sir. Really!

Remind me again what texture sets we're using?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Uranium - 235 on June 20, 2004, 11:57:25 PM
Ooooo can't wait to see em bob. So what, we're following that geothermal idea or what?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on June 21, 2004, 08:16:28 AM
I only had to modify the hive slightly to make it fit a geothermal theme, so I haven't needed to start over.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 21, 2004, 08:19:23 AM
Quote
LAYOUTS!!!! TONS AND TONS OF (two) LAYOUTS.

Yeah... I'm gonna get started on that section of mine reallllllll soon now. Like tomorrow. Yes sir. Really!

Remind me again what texture sets we're using?
I've been using the V_wad and a lot of the NOS and TECK texture sets.  Basically anything that wasn't added in the ns2.wad for 3.0 (because they're so incredibly overused in every new combat and otherwise map).

The only exception to my old-school theme is the wall_lab (think Eclipse and veil) texture set.  This set doesn't mesh very well at ALL with any of the others, so I would advise against using it.


*edit* Some screens perhaps, Deci? :D
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: That Annoying Kid on June 21, 2004, 02:40:16 PM
As soon as the map is in testing and has most of the design done I can start thinking up storylines etc


Do we want a paragraph for the map .txt, and a longer story or what?


I like the whole geothermal concept, but I still think a big room with some aesthetic skulk cover [infestation you can walk thru that covers a skulk] would be cool for battles, like possibly make it a seige spot or something along that lines. does anyone like this idea?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 21, 2004, 03:03:49 PM
The big infestation textures with holes in them would be nice visual cover. Stretched across corners or somesuch. I wouldn't want to put it flat across a floor or anything, that would come out rather fake looking. But otherwise, I've though of using it in that way before.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Uranium - 235 on June 21, 2004, 03:50:33 PM
Infestation can give very neat effects depending on how you use it - example, look at ns_desolate - Infestation under the surface of the water can make the water look a hell of a lot more interesting, and give an 'infestation' feel to textures that normally aren't for infestation.

As for you Bob, answer me on IRC, dammit!
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 21, 2004, 03:52:24 PM
I'm at work!!!! I can't answer you on IRC you nubz0r.

We should probably parcel out the map and figure out down to the hallway who is working on what. BTW, anyone familiar with copying and pasting from different RMFs to make it all fit together? Before we have the pieces all done would be a good time to figure this out I guess...
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 21, 2004, 08:53:33 PM
Today I actually got quite a bit of progress done!  I fleshed out a really nice looking new addition, and am nearly to the "vrossover walkway" portion of the map.  I would post some screens, but they just don't seem to do the cool flickering lights justice.

So I recorded a demo for your collective viewing pleasure.  The only problem is that it's over 2 megabytes in size.  If somebody could hook me up with some hosting, I'll post it right here, right now and you'll all be able to see in  full the extent of everything that I have mapped so far (I give a nice little runthrough of all the pertinent locations)

Anyways, if anyone is interested just give me a holler :)  Otherwise I shall boldly push forth and hopefully get as much done tomorrow as i did today.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 21, 2004, 10:56:11 PM
I do believe you need a copy of the map in order to view a demo, yes? So that wouldn't work out so well...
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 22, 2004, 07:34:28 AM
Quote
I do believe you need a copy of the map in order to view a demo, yes? So that wouldn't work out so well...
well, I COULD upload the .bsp too.  THat might even fit on the forums.  But if that were to happen, y'all could just look for yourselves.  Which wouldn't be a bad idea except that we'd want some sort of private forum (perhaps the RS foprum?) to post it in.

Another possibility is some leetz0r could tell me how to convert a demo to .avi and we could just post that.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 23, 2004, 07:19:41 AM
I'm not editing because...uhhh...I LIKE SPAM!!1!


Anyways, I've decided to send the compiled .bsp and .rad files (vie email) to anyone who wants to see what I've done so far.  In this, I was specifically thinking Bob or Uranub, for design and style purposes.  Does anybody wanna try?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dark on June 23, 2004, 08:16:55 AM
i'll take a look at it if you don't mind sending it to people not involved in making the map since i well suck at making things for games.  anyways send it to cd2021@gmail.com
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 23, 2004, 08:32:22 AM
Quote
i'll take a look at it if you don't mind sending it to people not involved in making the map since i well suck at making things for games.  anyways send it to cd2021@gmail.com
Surely :)  Once I zip it, I'll send it!

*edit* Actually, once I RAR'ed it, it'll fit on the forums as an upload.  So I'll just put it right here for anyone who wants or needs it.  I'm not quite sure on the situation with the lights.rad file though - that's only used for compiling, right?  I wouldn't need to include it with the .BSP?

At any rate here it is:
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: That Annoying Kid on June 23, 2004, 04:15:11 PM
I think this map is reaching the point where having it's own sub forum would be a vunderba idea, that way it's not just one thread.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 23, 2004, 04:30:08 PM
I'm remaining a bit concerned about the taping everything together point. Maybe it would be wiser to build sections off one big RMF that we pass around. Rooms could be premade, but perhaps hallways would need to be left until we have the whole thing. I'd hate to make a room too big and find out it overlaps with another room or something and then force a redesign. Should we try our luck with the jigsaw method? Or should we come up with a different plan?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 23, 2004, 06:15:30 PM
Quote
I'm remaining a bit concerned about the taping everything together point. Maybe it would be wiser to build sections off one big RMF that we pass around. Rooms could be premade, but perhaps hallways would need to be left until we have the whole thing. I'd hate to make a room too big and find out it overlaps with another room or something and then force a redesign. Should we try our luck with the jigsaw method? Or should we come up with a different plan?
I'm cool with passing stuff off.  For instance - one could begin where I left off and we can just pass it around.  But for this, we're gonna need a private FTP or use gmail or something.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 23, 2004, 07:52:07 PM
OMGmail for the win.

Another reason we should probably do the old blocky, undetailed areas thing. So we don't end up with one person hanging on to the map for weeks trying to prettify it. Yes, I said prettify.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 23, 2004, 08:00:51 PM
Allrighty then.  So who next?  Should I pass off my portion of the map? or should we continue from Deci's portion?  I warn, however - the placement of my part in the actual physical mapping grid needs to change, which means that every texture is gonna have to be realigned.  But that's gonna happen soon anyways.

Anywho, whoever wants to pick up where I left off shall receive the .RMF and the .RAD file.  Just give a holler.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: devicenull on June 23, 2004, 08:23:00 PM
Someone want to teach me to map? :p
I'd help making vents or something if you teach me how to map :p
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 23, 2004, 11:07:48 PM
Dubbz0r: Can't you just move it with texture lock on? Or will that break EVERYTHING?

Dev: It's actually not too hard. I'd just go to the map help and troubleshooting forum on ns.org, read the stickies about setting up hammer for ns, and then jump in and start playing with things to see what happens. Best way to learn.  :D
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 24, 2004, 07:53:50 AM
Quote
Someone want to teach me to map? :p
I'd help making vents or something if you teach me how to map :p
Make fun of me all you want, ingrates, but I find this to be an awesome source four tutorials, etc etc: http://countermap.counter-strike.net/Tutorials/ (http://countermap.counter-strike.net/Tutorials/)


@Bob - Texture lock  :blink:   Such a thing exists?!?!  Jeez - I'll have a look-see in hammer.

*edit*HOLY TEXTURE LOCK.  I'm not entirely sure how I've missed it this entire time, But my portion has been moved to the appropriate place.

We must continue - someone needs to volunteer to take it from me and add their portion.  From the current portion, one can go towards the marine spawn (up) or go towards the "crossover walkway" portion and the right hive (down).  But we need takers.

*edit2* Pictar added for conciseness:
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 24, 2004, 10:01:02 AM
Well, I am itchy to start mapping sometime soon. But I'm also generally busy with lots of scrimming and such lately... Not to mention things that actually DON'T involve being in front of a computer. AHHH!

If anyone has the time or the inspiration and wants to take over, go for it. If not, I guess I'll take it by default.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 24, 2004, 11:19:56 AM
I shall spam this link in IRC.  If we have no other takers by tomorrow morning, it's all yours Bob (and don't worry - you can take your time because there ain't no hurry).
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: That Annoying Kid on June 24, 2004, 03:14:26 PM
Does anyone think it would be a good idea to let the map have it's own subforum, with like a thread for each room, and a thread for layout, and a thread for ideas, and a stickied changelog, plus you could make the attachment size bigger in that subforum so the map could be 'hosted' by LB, after all it is a community map, so that could what LB puts to the effort :p <3 =3
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Tombomb on June 24, 2004, 08:23:00 PM
i cant wait till u guys finish it plz post a beta test if u can i would love to try out a map made buy such great minds we have here in TLM
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 25, 2004, 08:06:35 AM
And the winner is Bob!  Congratulations, my friend!  You've won an all-expenses-paid vacation to the dregs of human existence!


The mail shall be sent as soon as I RAR it  B)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on June 26, 2004, 01:57:56 PM
Ok, since I have found myself without a whole lot of time, I'll just post what I have done.  Sadly, it isn't much, but it's at least something to work with.

Arg, what's your gmail Dubb or Bob?  I can't attach .rar files....
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 26, 2004, 02:12:24 PM
dubbilex (at) gmail.com

bob's is also a no-brainer  :p
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Malevolent on June 26, 2004, 04:16:13 PM
Woo, make the map! How's it coming along?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 26, 2004, 04:27:43 PM
Quote
Woo, make the map! How's it coming along?
I've done a few rooms and have passed it to Bob, for the time being.

He's busy and stuff, so it might be a little while until we get anything new.  But for now, you can download the .BSP on the page before this one and have a look around.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on June 30, 2004, 01:02:53 PM
Yes, I've got the rmf and intend to do some work on it. I'm taking a wee pissed-off-at-hammer break at the moment. I started some preliminary work on it the other day, nothing big. Widened a messed up staircase, clipped some holes in walls, added a blank hallway, etc. Saved it off to go do something. Saved it twice. Should have known something was amiss when I exited hammer and it said 'this is not saved! do you want to save it?' ... to which I of course clicked YES again... Well, I came back to it and of course not a single change had been saved. In this case it was all of ten minutes worth of work, no big deal. But it still rattled my cage, so I haven't come back to it in a few days. BLAH on hammer, says I. And I'll get some work done on this soon...
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on July 01, 2004, 02:17:52 PM
Quote
Yes, I've got the rmf and intend to do some work on it. I'm taking a wee pissed-off-at-hammer break at the moment. I started some preliminary work on it the other day, nothing big. Widened a messed up staircase, clipped some holes in walls, added a blank hallway, etc. Saved it off to go do something. Saved it twice. Should have known something was amiss when I exited hammer and it said 'this is not saved! do you want to save it?' ... to which I of course clicked YES again... Well, I came back to it and of course not a single change had been saved. In this case it was all of ten minutes worth of work, no big deal. But it still rattled my cage, so I haven't come back to it in a few days. BLAH on hammer, says I. And I'll get some work done on this soon...
Good, Good.  I trust you received the correct version of Deci's hive?

I've been going through it and retexturing it and detailing it.  But I've never done a hive before, so it might not turn out too hot.

However, I figure if I can get this finished it'll just be gravy by the time we get there - we'll just be able to bolt it on and continue.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: That Annoying Kid on July 08, 2004, 12:49:16 PM
Quote
Does anyone think it would be a good idea to let the map have it's own subforum, with like a thread for each room, and a thread for layout, and a thread for ideas, and a stickied changelog, plus you could make the attachment size bigger in that subforum so the map could be 'hosted' by LB, after all it is a community map, so that could what LB puts to the effort :p <3 =3
^^

anyone?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: johnjacobjingle on July 08, 2004, 09:27:25 PM
/me cries about his lack of any kind of mapping knowledge

it sounds like an excellent idea, wish i knew how to do something in order to contribute, but i'm pretty noob :-(
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on July 09, 2004, 12:09:29 AM
I've gotten a little caught up in making a map for zombie panic at the moment, so this is on temporary slowdown. But fear not! The ZP map will be a much quicker and easier job than an NS map could ever hope to be. So I should be back to this in short time and have more newsworthy updates for the curious.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on July 09, 2004, 04:31:26 PM
Quote
I've gotten a little caught up in making a map for zombie panic at the moment, so this is on temporary slowdown. But fear not! The ZP map will be a much quicker and easier job than an NS map could ever hope to be. So I should be back to this in short time and have more newsworthy updates for the curious.
*shakes fist*

I'm also computerless for the time being, so it'll be a day or two before I can even think about, like, doing stuff.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Isamil on July 26, 2004, 10:38:00 PM
I set up my computer for mapping using that thread, and made a box.  And textured the box.  And tried(and failed) to let you join a team and spawn!(Yeah..how do you do that?)

So um, if I can learn to propely map, I guess I could help.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on July 26, 2004, 11:32:01 PM
http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/in...showtopic=50171 (http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=50171)

Basic setup for hammer for mapping for NS.

http://cariad.co.za/twhl/ (http://cariad.co.za/twhl/)

Basic mapping tutorials. Mainly for basic HLDM sort of mapping, but applicable to almost everything. An NS map is just an HL map with more intricate brushwork, fancier textures, and a few nicer entities.

Feel free to bug us with questions, I'm sure we don't mind.  :D
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on September 19, 2004, 11:10:38 PM
ZOMG BUMP!

I wish I had something nifty to show off, but nothing yet. Deci sent me some work he's been doing on the westside hive, and it's looking quite nice geometry wise. Still needs a lot of texture and lighting work, but that's the FUN part, he's got a lot of the fiddling with brushes out of the way stuff. Hooray!

That prompted me to actually dust off hammer and start on my side some more. Nothing too terribly exciting to report yet, I did decide to add some fun infestation around a door, which meant I had to learn how to do infestation. That was fun. We'll find out how well it works when I have something worth compiling.

So this is your basic bump to let you know that rusted wheels are starting to scrape into life again, and there should hopefully be more news soon.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Bijiy on September 20, 2004, 02:37:32 AM
I demand a final layout :(. Who all are building the hives? I could take a crack at building one if one is open.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Malevolent on September 20, 2004, 04:07:11 AM
Yay, it's aliiiiiiiive!
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on September 20, 2004, 11:56:05 AM
Bijiy: The western hive is all Decimator's baby. The central hive I'd kind of like to take over, as the hive and the area around it have a somewhat complex design that I'm not sure I can describe very well. The eastern hive is still open as far as I know. I am building in that direction, but I can actually just cut off towards the west from where I am and start working towards the central hive. We may get into a mess when we have to stick it all together, though, so we'll need to be careful about that.

And there was a final layout sort of thing posted a page or so back, one that actually showed the elevation differences and so on.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on September 20, 2004, 12:32:29 PM
wooo!

Well I'm in again.  Just pass that baby on whenever you're finished with it :)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on September 20, 2004, 02:04:29 PM
Quote
wooo!

Well I'm in again.  Just pass that baby on whenever you're finished with it :)
Well, if you want to start on some sort of marine start, that might be good. Just give it an exit on the sides that it needs and it should attach to what we have pretty well. We might run into the worlds worst puzzle when we try and piece this all together, but I think it should be workable, we may just need to stretch and compress some corridors to fit. I'm going to have the corridor going off to the wide vent room with the catwalk crossover and then head towards the central area, if bijiy is really interested I'll let him take over on the opposite sides of that for the eastern hive.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Satiagraha on September 20, 2004, 05:10:07 PM
I can map. I've been fidling with different concepts and ideas of mapping (exploring the limits of Hammer and what the various entities can do).  I love creating particle systems. But I lack the artistic and strategic touch to put together a decent map :(
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on September 20, 2004, 05:55:05 PM
Quote
Quote
wooo!

Well I'm in again.  Just pass that baby on whenever you're finished with it :)
Well, if you want to start on some sort of marine start, that might be good. Just give it an exit on the sides that it needs and it should attach to what we have pretty well. We might run into the worlds worst puzzle when we try and piece this all together, but I think it should be workable, we may just need to stretch and compress some corridors to fit. I'm going to have the corridor going off to the wide vent room with the catwalk crossover and then head towards the central area, if bijiy is really interested I'll let him take over on the opposite sides of that for the eastern hive.
[snapback]29291[/snapback]

Sounds like a plan.  I'll work on finding some inspirado.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on September 20, 2004, 06:22:41 PM
For those that have forgotten, the theme is a geothermal energy production plant. So, pipes, steam, deep venting shafts, these sort of things all fit the theme. Computers, of course, you can't really make an NS map without them. And the things I'm most interested in, still, are getting the basic geometry out of the way. Just give things indication textures that show how you eventually want them to look. Don't worry about real pretty textures for now, just get the shape down, and then we'll make it good later.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: lolfighter on September 21, 2004, 07:36:37 AM
Deep venting shafts? Pits of doom! I crave copious numbers of pits of doom! It's so fun to hide in 'em as a skulk. And marine start definitely needs one.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on September 21, 2004, 08:05:39 AM
Don't worry lolfighter, I already have a pit of doom in my hive. :p
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: lolfighter on September 21, 2004, 08:07:52 AM
Just don't place a spawnpoint above it, redeemers will hate you.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on September 21, 2004, 08:15:03 AM
Well, it's directly below the hive actually, so no knifing of the hive ever.  :D  It's also very very deep, so skulks will be able to grab the walls if they fall in.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: That Annoying Kid on September 21, 2004, 09:19:57 AM
rawr, am I still the only one that thinks a sub forum would be cool? I mean each hive can get a thread which the respective maker can attach there parts of the map [settings in teh ACP ftw] and we can make announcements, have a sticked completion thread, etc.  but this plea has been falling onto deaf ears for some tine now :huh:


also this is going to be a surface installation for the story aspects, becuase a geothermal energy production plant would have to be on the ground to get it's energy  :rolleyes: as soon as we get the majority of the map down I can start thinking about story and such.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: lolfighter on September 21, 2004, 09:20:15 AM
Skulks rarely choose redmeption though, I was thinking of Fades and Onos. Oh well, russian redemption-roulette.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on September 21, 2004, 11:45:00 AM
Quote
Well, it's directly below the hive actually, so no knifing of the hive ever.  :D  It's also very very deep, so skulks will be able to grab the walls if they fall in.
You can knife it, you just have to be at the right point to do it. That's OK though, the official mapping guidelines say that hives should be reachable for knifing and healspraying. Of course, very few of the official maps FOLLOW this rule...
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: That Annoying Kid on September 21, 2004, 02:27:49 PM
Heard you the first time. Postcount -5
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on September 21, 2004, 02:34:05 PM
I think it's getting ignored because there's no real reason for it. It's not like the LM mapping forum is a hotbed of activity, where new posts on the progress of this map are likely to get lost in the churning melee of new imformation being posted at all hours of the day.

Hell, before I bumped this topic the whole forum was in danger of showing no new topics due to inactivity.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dark on September 21, 2004, 10:33:10 PM
Quote
I think it's getting ignored because there's no real reason for it. It's not like the LM mapping forum is a hotbed of activity, where new posts on the progress of this map are likely to get lost in the churning melee of new imformation being posted at all hours of the day.

Hell, before I bumped this topic the whole forum was in danger of showing no new topics due to inactivity.
[snapback]29372[/snapback]

i have to agree with bob on this since the only reason this forum shows up now is cause he bumped this topic back to the top
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on September 22, 2004, 07:30:26 AM
There's a railing to keep things from falling in without being rather stupid, so don't worry about it too much.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Legionnaired on September 22, 2004, 09:31:40 AM
How can I help with this project?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Malevolent on September 22, 2004, 01:49:49 PM
Yeah, it's not good that this hasn't been posted in for that long (minus now of course). If we could get it so it was updated once a week at least it would keep the interest up somewhat. Anyway, all us other forum members would like to help somehow (I'd almost consider learning to map for it :o).
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on September 22, 2004, 03:38:02 PM
Quote
How can I help with this project?
[snapback]29415[/snapback]

You can do anything that your heart desires.  I've updated the layout posted by devnull a few pages back, and have fixed the upper right side of the map (as in, made it concurrent with what has been mapped/laid out to be mapped).  The areas highlighted in red have been mapped out for sure already, and have been labeled accordingly.

Bob has dibs on the south hive (if he still wishes it).

I have dibs on the marine spawn, unless anybody else wants it terribly badly.  it was tossed at me to begin with.

Deci has dibs on the west hive, as can be seen.

Anything else is up for grabs.  That eans that anyone, yes ANYONE can begin to map them out.

If you're up for that, Legionairred, may the mapping commence :D  And if you're not such a good mapper (which I know isn't the case anyways - you're better than I am), anything else (sounds, textures, sprites, etc) would be vastly appreciated.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on September 22, 2004, 04:02:56 PM
Actually, I've already done the node above my hive also.  So you can't do that either.  :p

Edit: I think we need a vent between the two hives farthest from eachother without having to go through the middle hive.  Sooo frustrating to have to protect a building hive and have a turretfarm in the way.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Bijiy on September 22, 2004, 04:53:24 PM
The hive below dubb's area is mine, so yeah. :p Seriously though, we need to start thinking of names for areas. :(
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Mr.Bill on September 22, 2004, 05:31:09 PM
Ill take up a section, if Im allowd :-D Do I need to get some sort of rmf I spose?

I felt like mapping, so I started a ms.. hope its up to par.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Bijiy on September 22, 2004, 06:28:35 PM
Pictars Bill, pictars.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Mr.Bill on September 22, 2004, 07:17:24 PM
Here are 2 pics of ms, from opposite corners, the entire thing can be changed... or redone... or even compiled with pretty lights. either way just wondering if this would be good for the map.

*bracees for flames*

(http://loader.schwippy.com/msroom2.JPG)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dark on September 22, 2004, 08:17:13 PM
looks good bill <3
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Satiagraha on September 22, 2004, 08:37:36 PM
Interesting idea, having the CC as if it were in a crate. It makes sense though. A CC would have to be shipped there to command the marines that are sent in to eliminate the aliums.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on September 22, 2004, 09:55:53 PM
Doesn't fit thematically at all, actually. I guess we need more screenshots, and to coordinate texture sets. And let me go ahead and veto CC-in-a-box. That's a bit too off for me. Just on the floor would be fine. (I always assumed it was phased in along with the rest of the marines at game start when the marines punched through the nano-gridlock to build their first base area)

Also, dubb has managed to quite mangle the map. The righthand hive is going to go in more south and some to the east of his area, not south and west of it. Before this gets too confusing, we need to slow down and coordinate what goes where. We're running headlong into having a massive puzzle of rooms that we can't fit together.  :help:
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Malevolent on September 23, 2004, 04:21:12 AM
Ah the second pic gives me a much better view of what MS looks like. I like the layout.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on September 23, 2004, 06:14:16 AM
Quote
  Also, dubb has managed to quite mangle the map. The righthand hive is going to go in more south and some to the east of his area, not south and west of it. Before this gets too confusing, we need to slow down and coordinate what goes where. We're running headlong into having a massive puzzle of rooms that we can't fit together.  :help:
[snapback]29469[/snapback]

To be frank with you, the reason the hive is so close to the center is because I ran out of lateral space to put it  :p   I had originally wanted it, like you said, more to the south and more to the west - but I don't think my photoshop skills are quite up to snuff with my mapping skills.  For instance - on the right side, where I updated the map, the area that I did appears far too small becuase it wouldn't fit in the layout otherwise.

That said, I don't think making these things fit together would be very difficult at all.  Even if the hallways don't line up perfectly, we can always just map extensions to the halls or just fix what we already have.  I'd be willing to help put it all together in the end becuase I have a pretty good idea of what could work.

That said again, would you rather we go back to the original, pass a single RMF around?  That way we could just start a waiting line again and the end chapters of making this map would be a helluva lot easier.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on September 23, 2004, 08:47:49 AM
Well we can make it work, but it will be tricky. Siege range is the main problem to deal with. If we just start slapping in hallways haphazardly to make rooms fit together, we may end up being able to siege hives from odd and improper places. We want to make sure that the siege locations are strategically placed, and don't just crop up randomly without our knowledge. (Or we'll end up with some sort of weird double siege old hera like thing... or who knows what else) I've been saying all along that we really just need to get the geometry down and then do the texturing to make it all match up. I guess I really need to finish off my area that I'm on right now. I'll try as much as possible to get the catwalk crossover deep vent shaft room done tonight and get the rmf to bijiy so he can do his hive. Then I'll probably just start working on the central area in a seperate map file and see what I can accomplish with that.

Oh, and by the way: NO VENTS YET! I don't care where you think they should go, it will change. Rooms aren't even locked into place yet, making vents that go from one to another is just silly. Main map first, then vents.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Legionnaired on September 23, 2004, 12:43:48 PM
Everyone stop right now.

What kind of scale are we working on?

My suggestion would be to grid off that layout, put hives in it, and check run times and siege ranges.

Then, define the corners, intersection points, and floor and ceiling points for each room.

Then, we need a light scheme, and a compiler that everyone will use together, so as to not screw up ambiance room to room.

I could do all of that, as well as, say, a node room or two if you guys wanted me to. Unless Bob wanted to administrate that muh.

Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Mr.Bill on September 23, 2004, 03:50:59 PM
heh, I knew the crate thing was iffy :)

but as for that thematically thing, whatever its means, Im guessing what you meant is it dosnt fit with the rest of the map so far the entire thing has  aboue 4 screanshots, most of which are dubbs, But As soon as I can see more of it Ill change it. its just basic for now
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Satiagraha on September 23, 2004, 04:12:01 PM
Don't misunderstand me, Bill. I love the idea of a CC with a broken crate around it as if it came out of it. How do the CCs get there in the first place anyways? lol

I'll be fooling around with a couple rooms/hallways/whatever. If I produce anything good, I'll show everyone, maybe it'll inspire someone.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on September 23, 2004, 05:24:29 PM
Actually, a copy of my part was posted a few pages back.

But I just noticed that apparently it isn't hosted anymore.

I've put the BSP in another archive and will attach it in this post - if you wanna run it, hopefully you'll just be able to stick it in your maps folder and run it (as the only 'custom' wads it uses is the v_wad, which is included in the installation now anyways.)

If there's any trouble with it, just give me a holler.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Mr.Bill on September 23, 2004, 06:36:45 PM
thanks dubb, gives me a better idea.

On a personal note, that is crazy dark :-D
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Bijiy on September 23, 2004, 07:24:55 PM
Design, lighting, touchup, more lighting, then finally more touch up. Tis' the way to map.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Mr.Bill on September 23, 2004, 07:36:34 PM
better or worst? just changed most of the textures, but Its still a bit off ffrom dubbs, and by bit I mean lot of course :)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Malevolent on September 23, 2004, 07:43:43 PM
New textures make it look better, but I think we need to diverge from the norm Bill. We want our map to be different.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on September 23, 2004, 08:05:47 PM
Quote
better or worst? just changed most of the textures, but Its still a bit off ffrom dubbs, and by bit I mean lot of course :)
[snapback]29529[/snapback]

Looking better already :)  I don't think I like the texture on the "pillars", but the architecture seems solid enough and the rest of the texturing seems fine.

Bill - if you want me to send you the .RMF so you can take a look at the inner workings, I'd be more than happy to do so.  Are you up for it?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Satiagraha on September 23, 2004, 08:07:26 PM
Suggested Area Names:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/satiagraha/lmmap.jpg)

I tried to put some logic into this.

MS is a docking bay - the input/output of the geothermal plant. Where else would Marines show up first?

To the right is The actual raw resource gathering area. The equipment used in the plant is stored here. The actual Geothermal vent that provides the heat is also here, as is the receptor to capture the heat.

In the middle is Steam control. This is based off of what Geothermal plants are currently in RL. Heat creates steam, steam turns turbines, turbines produce power. The Steam Control room/area is basically the main junction for all the steam piping. It sends steam to the turbines.

Bottom Center is the Turbines. These are turned by steam to produce power.

to the left are the stability and regulation centers. The power produced by the turbines are regulated by running through some sort of transformer station or something to that effect.  Also here is the Stability Maintenance. This center maintains the stability of the entire plant, hence the name.

I'm undecided what I think the corner hallway RT area should be named, thus the "?"

As you can see, the plant is set up in a logical progression. From right to left, it aquires the resource, uses that resource to produce usable energy, and then formats that energy to an output. The Docking Bay is relatively centered to all the major areas, allowing access to the plant at an acceptable level.



Quote
Bill - if you want me to send you the .RMF so you can take a look at the inner workings, I'd be more than happy to do so.  Are you up for it?
[snapback]29538[/snapback]
I too would be interested in taking a gaze at the almighty source. A bsp leaves something to be desired (mainly mobility :p)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on September 23, 2004, 10:03:48 PM
Neat. Of course we need to keep in mind, as I keep beating this dead horse again: Geometry first! Let's just get the rooms in place and duct tape them together, THEN we can do all the prettying up and making one room look like 'nuclear chicken monitoring' and another like 'cargo silo power ventilation hive'.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on September 23, 2004, 10:41:20 PM
My hive probably looks more like a thermal borehole type thing.  Stability maintenence might work for the node, but it looks more like a pipe routing room.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on September 23, 2004, 10:48:42 PM
Here is my current progress on my section.  Please note that I spent very little time actually texturing and lighting.  This should give you all a good idea of what I want these areas to look like though.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Bijiy on September 23, 2004, 11:16:28 PM
I'm thinking of calling my hive "Cargo Processing", you'll understand why once I post screens later.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on September 23, 2004, 11:20:59 PM
Another thing that changed minimap leaves out is the awesomehuge venting shaft room thingy with the two crossing catwalks. And that will be a good sized room. I want people to walk into it and feel tiny. We'll see how well I can do this without making it an fps killer. It should be a pretty simple room, though, just very tall and very deep. It goes south of dubb's area leading towards the eastside hive, which is going to end up more where the vents are in that map. As soon as I finish building the room of awesomehugeness, I should be ready to turn the map over to bijiy to tackle the hive room. Hope you enjoy vertex manipulation.  :p

Edit: If you use the word cargo for a room name, I may have to throw you down an awesomehuge venting shaft. Just so you know.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on September 23, 2004, 11:32:44 PM
Alright, I have dedicated a gmail account to this project.  Feel free to use the lmmappers address for storing files.  The password will only be given to mappers.  PM me if I haven't given you the pass.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on September 24, 2004, 06:17:33 AM
Quote
Here is my current progress on my section.  Please note that I spent very little time actually texturing and lighting.  This should give you all a good idea of what I want these areas to look like though.
[snapback]29549[/snapback]

holy jesus - that's incredible work, deci!  I can't wait to see this all textured and lit up, because with the proper effects it could be absolutely killer.

to those discussing names - keep in mind that decimator's hive has huge pipes everywhere, so it would probably be best if its name reflected that.

third, I agree with bob about the crossover room - I tried to illistrate it but got lazy and only showed the two catwalks.  The way I'm imagining this, the giant crossover room will be above and perhaps to the left of the rightmost hive.  But then again, I may be visualizing this wrong.

Last, I don't have the time this morning so I'll sort out the sending of the source when I get back (that is, unless someone who already has it wants to have a stab at it).
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on September 24, 2004, 09:33:53 AM
Yeah, check out this layout which I posted a while back:
(http://bob.thezazi.net/layout2.jpg)
Just plaster in your stuff in the top right. The last room that you built, I added a corridor going out the lefthand side, with another corridor going south from it at a 90 degree angle, leading down to the large vent room (the white circle). So we're pretty close to remaining on track with this layout. Which is exactly what I wanted. The map shows basic directions, but to actually get from one point to another you have to walk around a lot more than just going in straight lines, and go through a couple rooms.

So from the large vent shaft room, I'll just make doors going out the east and south sides and let bijiy attach a hive to that. Then I'll start mapping out from the west side and towards the central rooms of dewm... maybe. This is where it starts to get tricky and where we may need to start duct taping everything together. I don't want to make a collection of  rooms too wide to fit inbetween bijiy's hive and deci's hive.

Anyway, since probably everyone else won't be sitting on the map for 3 months without doing anything, progress should be faster now.  :ph34r:
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on September 24, 2004, 11:03:24 AM
I'm going to do the node to the east of my hive next, so consider that taken.  I'm going to make the halls leading between my two outer nodes and I'll leave a small hall for the middle room to connect to, then I'll upload the rmf to lmmappers so the middle room can be built.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on September 24, 2004, 11:40:17 AM
Excellent. Just remember the elevation changes so we can make them nice gradual ramps or stairways, instead of lots of ladders. Being a dedicated Fade, I consider ladders my arch-nemeses.  ;)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Satiagraha on September 24, 2004, 03:03:25 PM
Quote
...Geometry first! Let's just get the rooms in place and duct tape them together, THEN we can do all the prettying up...
[snapback]29546[/snapback]
Right, But I agree with U235 that we should probably have some sort of theme going on each part, extremely subject to change of course. Those names are just my suggestions. I left out some areas and whatnot. I was just putting down the main areas.


Quote
My hive probably looks more like a thermal borehole type thing.  Stability maintenence might work for the node, but it looks more like a pipe routing room.
[snapback]29548[/snapback]
It's quite possible to reverse the names so that the "thermal borehole" and steam routing and such are on the left and the power reg and stability on the right. It's all just suggestions.


Bob: What's the white circular area around the crossing next to the right hive (Lovingly dubbed by me as the "Power Regulation" Hive ^_^ )
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Mr.Bill on September 24, 2004, 04:36:31 PM
Anyone mind me giving a hack at the hallways underneath the ms? Or should I wait for middle room to be done?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on September 24, 2004, 04:53:29 PM
Quote
Bob: What's the white circular area around the crossing next to the right hive (Lovingly dubbed by me as the "Power Regulation" Hive ^_^ )
[snapback]29589[/snapback]
GIANT VENTING SHAFT OF AWESOMEHUGE DOOOOOOOOOOOM! With the two catwalks crossing in the middle, the horizontal one is above the vertical. This means you have to take the long way to get to the hive, but you can take the short way out of it. I did put SOME thought into this, after all...  :p

Quote
Anyone mind me giving a hack at the hallways underneath the ms? Or should I wait for middle room to be done?
[snapback]29602[/snapback]
You can stake your claim on them, but I'd suggest not building them yet, as we don't know how much room you're going to have to work in. I'll try and leave ample space for them when I build out the middle areas.

At the moment it looks like the official passing around of the RMF is going to bijiy next, then I guess me again to do the middle areas, then probably we'll let decimator tack on his side. THEN Mr.Bill gets it to put on MS and those halls. At that point we should have the geometry work done, and can start on the make-it-pretty stages, and a whole new round of rmf passing about, and tweaking, and vent making, and texture work, and lighting, and so on and so on. Once we do have the map in a whole piece, there's nothing stopping us from working on multiple areas at once, as long as the designated points where they meet the next areas aren't changed at all. This could be tricky, but might work out OK.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Mr.Bill on September 24, 2004, 05:04:04 PM
/me calls halls underneath ms.

well... since I got time to spare...
*works on ms*
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Bijiy on September 24, 2004, 07:05:55 PM
This is what I have so far after about 40 minutes of work:

(http://home.comcast.net/~bijiy/wip/lmhive.jpg)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on September 24, 2004, 07:31:40 PM
It's a little dark here, but I realize that's because of the light forum background color more than anything.

the texturing looks great - clean, concise, fitting.  Just get some crazy mood lighting in there and you win :)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Satiagraha on September 24, 2004, 08:45:30 PM
Quote
Anyone mind me giving a hack at the hallways underneath the ms? Or should I wait for middle room to be done?
[snapback]29602[/snapback]
Wait a minute, there are halls underneath MS? Sounds like DC/SC heaven. Did we add these in after Bob posted the newest layout?  :huh:
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on September 24, 2004, 09:30:36 PM
Alright, the basic geometry for my section is done, for the most part.  The way things are shaping up I think we'll need to push the middle hive downward and sort of squeeze the center stuff in between to two outer hives.

Edit: and I've just discovered that the attachment is too big for the forums...  :angry:
Oh well, posted on lmmappers.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Bijiy on September 25, 2004, 04:17:39 AM
Okay so included in the file: My lights.rad settings, my custom wad that I used, the bsp compiled, the source in .map and .rmf form.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on September 25, 2004, 07:32:37 AM
Quote
Okay so included in the file: My lights.rad settings, my custom wad that I used, the bsp compiled, the source in .map and .rmf form.
[snapback]29625[/snapback]

for some reason, most of the room still is the untextured White when this is opened in hammer.

Are you absolutely certain that you've included all the wads you used?  It seems to be wanting, for example, "t_grate2aln" and other such textures.  And they just don't exist.  :(

Second, judging from the architecture, would it be possible to make a giant room around this?  Maybe this is some sort of "control room" in the corner of a giant room (on account of the fact that the hive you've mapped is very small).  Deci had an idea to make the hives incredibly hard to assault in order to prolong games and make them more 'epic.'  After seeing deci's hive, I'm inclined to agree with him - it would be damn hard to move into that hive.

And since we don't want one hive to be more inaccessable than others (gg caged), all three hives need to be equally spaced and equally sized.

All that said, this looks great :)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Bijiy on September 25, 2004, 07:56:12 AM
I just using all the official wads, and my custom one. It sounds like said texture is from the tanith wad.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on September 25, 2004, 09:03:11 AM
Alright, I uploaded Bijiy's latest stuff to lmmappers and took a look at it myself.  It's painfully dark ingame, but in hammer the brushwork looks very nice indeed.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on September 25, 2004, 09:12:00 AM
Hallways under MS = hallways south of MS. 'Under' it on the 2d layout view.

Decimator - you can't squeeze the center stuff. That's a majorly large part of the map. And the center hive is going to be rather big as well. THIS IS WHY I DIDN'T WANT THIS MUCH WORK BEING DONE IN SEPERATE PIECES!!!!! Oh well, we'll make it work somehow. Just remember that the center areas of the map and the center hive are where most of the battle is going to take place.

Look at maps like hera, with processing and datacore. Or tanith with cargo and fusion. Or caged with shipping tunnels and ventilation. Or nothing with viaduct and the mostly unnamed area around viaduct. The center hive is almost always the biggest fight. You want it to be generally hard to hold for both teams, to lead to more epic battles.

Anyway, like I keep saying, let's get it all and piece it together and then see where we stand on questions of accessibility and balance.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on September 25, 2004, 09:50:02 AM
Well, after seeing Bijiy's hive I don't know if we'll have a problem, especially if he flips it so that none of the entrances are facing the edge of the map.  We'll be able to shove it right up against the edge then.

Here's what currently is uploaded.  My mess is on the west and bijiy's hive is on the east.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/decimator007/westhive.jpg)

The area I currently have done:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/decimator007/decilayout.jpg)

I think that if we move my hive up a bit we should have plenty of room for the center hive.

Edit: if you want to take a look at exactly what I have done, it's up on lmmappers.
Double-edit ftw: I don't think theres really anything left for me to do expansion-wise, all that's left is detail work for my section.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Satiagraha on September 25, 2004, 10:00:40 AM
Quote
Hallways under MS = hallways south of MS. 'Under' it on the 2d layout view.
[snapback]29633[/snapback]
Doh! I feel stupid now... :blush:
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on September 25, 2004, 11:01:37 AM
Wow that's huge. I'll have to go download that and actually check it out. I'm assuming that goes all the way up to the edge of the elevator room. Hrmm... Well, let me just look at it before I start ranting again.  :p

Edit: Ok.... this may need trimming. This is ONE. HIVE. ROOM. It should not take up 1/4th of the available mapping space........

Edit Edit: Ok, I'm seeing the design more, it's not all hive, it's just confusing with all infestation textures. I see where it fits.

Ninja Edit: What you've got does look good geometry wise. The lava, I'm not so sure about. I'd like some more opinions on it. Big rooms with pits of lava always felt sort of goofy to me. Can you actually see someone using a bridge over a giant pool of lava? Wouldn't breathing in that room sort of vaporise your lungs? Also, the lava room looks like a good camping spot. Stand by the RT and you can cover anything coming out of the hive from that direction. So more cover may be needed. But again, I'm getting ahead of the current phase of development, so I'll TRY and shut up. I make no guarantees.

Psycho Edit: Bijiy's hive = looks nice. Too dark, too tiny, and there's some sort of weird hiccup where the edge of the RT platform meets the platform with the box right next to it. Walking over it a couple times I somehow got stuck and then took falling damage. Maybe scoot one of the platforms over a bit. And if you get inside the hive box thing area, it's kind of hard to get out without trick jumping. Might be a pain for gorges. And the door sort of needs to be on the other side of the room, where the hive is... >_<
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on September 25, 2004, 11:58:28 AM
Well, we'll see what the popular opinion is.  I personally love the room the way it is, but if nobody else does then I can very easily convert it to a pit of doom.  I've been adding more cover and now it's possible to get directly above the rt without being seen from down there at all, possibly even onos will be able to, I'd have to try it.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Mr.Bill on September 25, 2004, 12:13:20 PM
uber dark picture time. Im still trying to figure out a decent lighting way... so far most of it looks bad. I took off the floor lighting and added some from that "halo thingy on the ceilling" :) Still looking for more light in it, could be fixed with gamma though



(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/zoltri/ns_ms20000.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/zoltri/ns_ms20002.jpg)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on September 25, 2004, 12:39:12 PM
Wow, Deci - I didn't realize that you had that much finished :)

Since I'm in a rather do-nothing position right now, i'd be willing to help you texture and light your half if you need the help.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on September 25, 2004, 01:34:22 PM
Idle in #lm-map so we can organize.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Satiagraha on September 25, 2004, 02:35:39 PM
Ok, I couldn't stand looking at that crappy picture any longer. Color purification FTW!

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/satiagraha/lmmapgood.jpg)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on September 25, 2004, 02:38:45 PM
You have haxored my mspaint skillz! OMGZ!!!!
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on September 26, 2004, 11:35:19 AM
Now I have a question - is there anybody currently working on the area in the center of the map?  

If not, I've got some energy today and can start on it.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Mr.Bill on September 26, 2004, 01:40:13 PM
Well, Today is hammer pic day for you poor people you. Photobucket is a tad slow to that helps too. :-D

I think it goes in order starting from ms, moving to the right of the map then down towards the hll underneath ms, which is really AN OUTDOOR AREA OMGFTWH4X!?!?

 I decided to defy bob today and made it. If i dosn't pan out Ill just dd a glass cover or something and it an indoor tunnel with a window. chances are I wont be doing that unless I have to. the other alternative is redoing it compleatly.. *sighs*
Other then that I managed to fit in my own pipe orgy. (MY TURN). So if thats ok'd Ill be happy. :-D

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/zoltri/map4.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/zoltri/map3.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/zoltri/map2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/zoltri/map1.jpg)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on September 26, 2004, 09:42:48 PM
For the very curious, here's a crappy hammer wireframe 2d overhead pic of what's going on. (It's all highlighted because hammer was drawing it in some weird colors that made it hard to see, that's why it's bright red)

http://bob.thezazi.net/mapmess.bmp (http://bob.thezazi.net/mapmess.bmp)

(Linked because apparently I can't post a bmp?  :blink: New forum software broken?? It's a crappy 256 color bmp, ffs)
Decimator undertook the task of piecing everything together. Compared to the layout, it's actually looking pretty close. Dubb is currently fixing some texture problems, and I'm starting on the south hive room which we'll stick in later. Progress is being made, never fear. But you wouldn't want to see the map right now. Trust me.  :p
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Bijiy on September 26, 2004, 10:55:45 PM
My hive isn't tiny D:, it's cute.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: lolfighter on September 27, 2004, 03:12:40 AM
Quote
My hive isn't tiny D:, it's cute.
[snapback]29711[/snapback]
Best. Excuse. EVAR.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Bijiy on September 27, 2004, 05:20:59 AM
Quote
Quote
My hive isn't tiny D:, it's cute.
[snapback]29711[/snapback]
Best. Excuse. EVAR.
[snapback]29719[/snapback]
It really is. :(
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: lolfighter on September 27, 2004, 07:09:50 AM
Your gf is getting tired of it though.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on September 27, 2004, 07:40:34 AM
Feel the burn!

The problem is you can't really have any sort of battles in the hive. It's one tiny room. Can you even fit 16 info_team_starts in there? Have you tried?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on September 28, 2004, 06:53:35 AM
Okay - as a small update:


Sorry for the lack of activity yesterday - I ended up getting home at 10 pm and was dead tired.  So I did what dead tired people do.  You know - sleep.

I recently finished fixing the geometry of Bill's Northern section.  I've optimized it (using null textures, etx etx) and will begin the actual texturing process today.  Now, I would consider myself pretty speedy at texture work, so bill's entire section should be finished by tomorrow evening.

And then, if y'all want me to, I'll start Decimator's section (that is, unless Bob or anybody else wants a go at the funfunfun!)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Mr.Bill on September 28, 2004, 09:42:32 AM
Oh noes! mein baby!

Oh, if my pipes are replaced with halls someone is going to pay! *looks at bob*


but other then that Im pretty sure theyll let you d it dubb :)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on September 28, 2004, 10:49:57 AM
OK Bill. You're charming, you're lovely, and everyone wants to be like you. But if you honestly think we're going to let a hall with both walls and the ceiling made entirely out of pipes make it into the final map, you're crazy.

Dubb - I'm happy to do retexturing, just let me know exactly what textures are available for my use and abuse. I'm planning to start the southern hive, but I'd rather build out from what we've got now instead of starting yet another part of the map out in space. So I'd rather we got this part done-ish, then got the elevator room that you're working on completed. Then I can build the middle room and hive below it and know exactly the space I have to work in. Also, I've been out sick lately, so not much progress may be made very quickly at the moment.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Mr.Bill on September 28, 2004, 12:54:51 PM
it's 1/4 of the entier thing! like 4 pipes big even! ftw!? :-D

Im not asking for the ENTIRE pipe orgy, but just for that section I put in. :)

and if you dont think im crazy yet.. ;)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on September 28, 2004, 06:32:15 PM
Here we are.  I have a little update - I've redone bill's 'pipe orgy' hallway and, retextured it, and - to some extent - aded some lights.

I am now passing the torch to bob for a bit - because he's chomping at the bit in preparation to map.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Mr.Bill on September 28, 2004, 06:40:58 PM
I'm going to cut you.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Malevolent on September 28, 2004, 07:36:37 PM
Haf, pipe orgy. Such a good use of words there. But it was unique. Actually, I didn't think it was that bad. Different is good.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on September 28, 2004, 10:23:36 PM
There are several more pipes there that you can't see because the lighting level still needs a lot of tweaking. And fear not, Mr.Bill. I've even added some NEW pipes to MS while I've been retexturing it. Hooray!
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Bijiy on September 28, 2004, 10:26:57 PM
So I made my hive..."bigger". Bsp later.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on September 28, 2004, 10:36:54 PM
I find that strangely "exciting." Hawt mansecks later.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on September 30, 2004, 10:23:19 PM
Bump for shots of WIP marine start.

(http://bob.thezazi.net/ms1.jpg)

(http://bob.thezazi.net/ms2.JPG)

It needs a bit more, obviously. Pillars and such. The big black hole is where a hall will go, and the other hallway is untextured at the moment and pretty much dull, so ignore that.

Now I'll sit back and wait for Mr.Bill to kill me.  :D
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Malevolent on October 01, 2004, 04:51:22 AM
Oo, MS is lookin' good.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Mr.Bill on October 01, 2004, 02:42:20 PM
..thats the same as mine HOW?!?!

*stabs bob in the face with pure hate*
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Satiagraha on October 01, 2004, 08:40:19 PM
Quote
..thats the same as mine HOW?!?!
[snapback]30095[/snapback]
Ooooh! OOOooohhh!! I know! I Know!

They both have a stair to the MS! Yaaaaaay!
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on October 02, 2004, 08:41:27 AM
Quote
..thats the same as mine HOW?!?!

*stabs bob in the face with pure hate*
[snapback]30095[/snapback]

Slanted walls and half-pillars aside, this is just a retexture-job.   We also took out the skylight because it was probably 200 polies by itself  :p

Oh - and the RT placement changed a little bit too.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Mr.Bill on October 02, 2004, 09:07:21 AM
oh noes! mein skylight!

I better get those pillars back! :)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on October 02, 2004, 11:20:42 AM
Quote
oh noes! mein skylight!

I better get those pillars back! :)
[snapback]30147[/snapback]

Oh I agree  -We'll collectively slap bob around until he adds some sort of pillar because the walls look a little sparse as they are.

if you can hear this, bob: DO IT FOR THE CHILDREN
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dark on October 02, 2004, 09:20:14 PM
yes bob should really think of the children cause no pillars in ms make baby jesus cry

anyways keep up the good work and finish this baby since i want to playtest it as soon as possible B)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Bijiy on October 02, 2004, 11:29:40 PM
Hate. That. Wall. Texture. So. Much.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on October 03, 2004, 12:18:18 AM
Dubb did it. I was just continuing his theme. Get him. KILL HIM!

Still needs retexturing anyway because somehow we are still at 136 textures? I don't have a CLUE how that works out. I used maybe... 10? 20? in MS. And those are textures that are already used in the rest of the map.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on October 03, 2004, 08:55:50 AM
Quote
Dubb did it. I was just continuing his theme. Get him. KILL HIM!

Still needs retexturing anyway because somehow we are still at 136 textures? I don't have a CLUE how that works out. I used maybe... 10? 20? in MS. And those are textures that are already used in the rest of the map.
[snapback]30201[/snapback]

I say we need to show up at Bijiy's hive with pitchforks and torches.  That's the only thing that we can't be sure of.

Who would've thunk that going over one's texture limit would be so damn easy?

EDIT

I've recompiled the marine spawn to check out the texture usage.  So I compiled that data in a text document; I'll post the contentes here. (please note that we can strike at the very least two wads from the list because they're completely unused.)

Quote
TEXTURE USAGE IN MARINE SPAWN


ns.wad       -  12 textures
v.wad        -  11 textures
halflife.wad -   2 textures
bijiy.wad    -   1 texture
ns2.wad      -   1 texture
ns_bast.wad  -   1 texture
ns_tanith.wad -  1 texture
ns_nancy.wad -   0 textures
ns_nothing.wad - 0 textures

= 29 textures

Texture usage is at 0.95 mb (of 4.00 mb MAX)


Seeing as how the texture usage is below 1 mb, and seeing as how marine spawn and the surrounding areas are roughly 1/4th of the map, I'd say we're either on track or damn close to it.

I'm going to try to isolate each section to see where all the wads and texture usage are coming from (although my sneaking suspicion is that it's bijiy's hive, because there's an awful lot of brushwork over there.  I'm checking into it now.)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Mr.Bill on October 03, 2004, 11:05:07 AM
Well dubb, Which MYSTERIOUS area is killing us with textures? HMM!?!? WHICH!?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on October 03, 2004, 11:13:12 AM
Quote
Well dubb, Which MYSTERIOUS area is killing us with textures? HMM!?!? WHICH!?
[snapback]30210[/snapback]

you're a dead man, bill  <_<

anywho, I suppose I need to explain myself - apparently the section that nobody expected, my section from a year ago, (which we all just ignored because we figured it was good to go and because it was really old - big mistake) was using 2.59 megabytes of texture memory.  Coupled with the area leading up to Bijiy's hive, it was 3.09 mb (or something close to it).

Apparently I used nearly 90 textures  :blink:

But the point is this: I've nulled everything, and am now in the middle of retexturing it (and perhaps staying off the booze while i do so...) to get it to acceptable levels.  If all goes well, it should be good to go (for real this time ) by tonight.
 
Woopsies   :lol:


EDIT  gee - it's a frenzy in here.  don't tear me apart, guys.

Anyways, the problem's been fixed and we're rolling again.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Bijiy on October 03, 2004, 09:32:38 PM
Hypocritical bastard!

*Bijiy shakes fist
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dark on October 03, 2004, 09:36:25 PM
yes let's all blame dubb for the high texture counts
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on October 04, 2004, 06:03:56 AM
Quote
Hypocritical bastard!

*Bijiy shakes fist
[snapback]30254[/snapback]

Yes well, I happened to spend four hours fixing mine  :rolleyes:

:lol:


Oh yes - and as an update, the texture usage is down to 19 textures now, .67 megabytes.   So the only problem left is bob's computer room/bijiy's hive.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: lolfighter on October 04, 2004, 09:01:42 AM
I'm sorry for interrupting you guys again, but I'm curious: How far has this thing progressed? Anything like a percentage or a progress bar or something?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on October 04, 2004, 11:53:36 AM
I'd say geometry work is at about... 60-70%. Detail, lights, and texturing is at about... 30%. Left to be built is the central room with the elevator, the large room below that, and then the hive below that. I'll be doing most of that as soon as we stop fiddling around with texture related problems and can get the whole map itself in a position to be worked on. I'm putting a firm stop to working on multiple bits at once, the cleanup required negates any time saved. Also, the area around bijiy's hive needs to be finished, there's no hallways there at the moment. And there's some halls around MS still needing building. So there's a fair bit left to be done before we even have a playable beta version. But as soon as there is one, you'll all be the first to know about it.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on November 04, 2004, 07:59:33 PM
Here's a new hammer screenie to show that we are, in fact, still working on this. :p
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: LowCrawler on November 04, 2004, 08:59:53 PM
Quote
SIGN ME UP for hooting and cheering and whatnot of the sort of work that isn't actually work!
[snapback]17149[/snapback]


i am the best asshole in the world!

so if you can make a map that i can't somehow make fun of, then you're good.

so sign me as "Project Ass"
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Malevolent on November 05, 2004, 04:20:34 AM
Wewt, another pipe orgy!
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on November 05, 2004, 06:15:26 AM
Fine fine.  I'll post two screens myself to show that, while I've been slacking lately, I have actually been slacking mightily lately.  Oh wait - that didn't come out right...


Here is one of the Unpolished hallway under the marine spawn.  And no that elevator doesn't work - it's decoration.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on November 05, 2004, 06:16:19 AM
and a closeup of the actual shaft.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Malevolent on November 05, 2004, 10:55:45 AM
Well, your part of the map is looking good too, Dubb.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Mr.Bill on November 05, 2004, 02:38:41 PM
that hall resembles on of mine... SHE LIVES!!!

Well, I've just been idling in the chan... changing the topic and pointing ut that bob is a fast worker, thats basicly my limit now :-D
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on November 05, 2004, 03:19:26 PM
Yeah, we don't let MrBill touch it anymore.  We keep him in a cage and poke him with pointy sticks.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: fatty on November 05, 2004, 05:06:13 PM
i just saw a closeup of dubb's shaft  :o
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dark on November 05, 2004, 10:08:01 PM
sweet it lives again
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on November 05, 2004, 10:11:43 PM
It never died, it's just a camouflaged turtle that pops its head out of its shell every now and then. :p
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on November 09, 2004, 04:08:22 PM
Hrmm... map... vent shaft that I've been meaning to work on for a month now... hrmmmm.

Did I mention that aligning textures around pipes is probably the thing I hate most in the world about mapping? (And this vent shaft involves a lot of giant pipes that have to be textured outside and inside?) So yeah, every time I go to work on it I kind of... suddenly think of something else I've got to do.  :help:
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on November 09, 2004, 05:19:59 PM
Bob, align the textures to face and it suddenly becomes much easier.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on November 10, 2004, 06:25:12 AM
Quote
Bob, align the textures to face and it suddenly becomes much easier.
[snapback]33133[/snapback]

I usually just apply the texture, make sure it's running in the right direction, and set the x-shift and y-shift to zero.  it lines up nicely.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Mr.Bill on November 14, 2004, 04:08:06 PM
If I were bob, Id leave em the way they are and left some other poor bastard take care of it.

key words: GROUP EFFORT
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Kodiac on November 23, 2004, 06:34:22 PM
my head hurts from reading all of the words i dont understand, but it sounds like you'll be needing a playtester or two eventually...........let me know if/when you do
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Crispy on November 26, 2004, 08:18:41 AM
So this is where Bob does his mapping, interesting...  :ph34r:
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on November 26, 2004, 01:11:35 PM
Quote
So this is where Bob does his mapping, interesting...  :ph34r:
[snapback]34252[/snapback]

Yes.  And someday he'll do that vent shaft like he's supposed to.

OR SO HE SAYS  <_<
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on November 26, 2004, 02:05:24 PM
Actually, I have the vent shaft at the moment.  Bob gave it to me to texture, and I gladly did.  However, we'll want a custom texture for the inside of the pipes, none of the current ones will work.

Though, is this all there is, Bob?  I'd like to see how everything is coming together.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on November 28, 2004, 08:21:11 AM
Quote
Actually, I have the vent shaft at the moment.  Bob gave it to me to texture, and I gladly did.  However, we'll want a custom texture for the inside of the pipes, none of the current ones will work.

Though, is this all there is, Bob?  I'd like to see how everything is coming together.
[snapback]34264[/snapback]

oh  o_O

well then.  Now I need to find something else to climb on Bob's back about.  Perhaps the south hive?


Anywho, I have a new hallway finished. Screens to come.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on November 28, 2004, 02:43:44 PM
Quote
well then.  Now I need to find something else to climb on Bob's back about.  Perhaps the south hive?
Climb on if you wish. I got too involved in too many things all at once (mapping, ns pt, zp pt, forum mod, cal practice, having a job, not ignoring woman all day, etc.) and then hl2 dropped on top and the whole pile crumbled. I've been pretty much out of everything for a while now. I'm trying to get involved in things again... slooooowly this time so I don't get overextended.

Many apologies for not mapping all the stuff I promised to map.  :(
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on November 28, 2004, 03:55:53 PM
Quote
Quote
well then.  Now I need to find something else to climb on Bob's back about.  Perhaps the south hive?
Climb on if you wish. I got too involved in too many things all at once (mapping, ns pt, zp pt, forum mod, cal practice, having a job, not ignoring woman all day, etc.) and then hl2 dropped on top and the whole pile crumbled. I've been pretty much out of everything for a while now. I'm trying to get involved in things again... slooooowly this time so I don't get overextended.

Many apologies for not mapping all the stuff I promised to map.  :(
[snapback]34413[/snapback]

s'allright - Deci and I have been chugging along pretty lazily too.  However, I have gotten something done!

I call it:  Hallway below the Marine Spawn.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Mr.Bill on December 04, 2004, 09:15:12 AM
*grumbling* needs more pipes Grr *grumble
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Malevolent on December 04, 2004, 10:57:14 AM
Bill, control your fetish with pipes.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: That Annoying Kid on January 18, 2005, 01:28:32 PM
hmmm, I don't want to go to far out on a limb, but perhaps we could combine the map story but perhaps SE:S could take place on TLMM? That would open up a myriad of possibilities cause the hive drifting off into space had to end up somewhere... etc etc etc

I'm just tossing this idea out there to see how it is looked at.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Vinegar Ninja on January 18, 2005, 06:07:53 PM
if you guys ever get this done, it will be played on res slot night.
if you get it done :p
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on January 18, 2005, 06:33:45 PM
Heh, don't worry.  We're only half dead. :p
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: BobTheJanitor on January 19, 2005, 09:46:14 PM
Quote
Heh, don't worry.  We're only half dead. :p
[snapback]38809[/snapback]
I'm the dead half.  :(
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Mr.Bill on January 20, 2005, 11:13:10 AM
Technicly Im also half dead, as my mapping is too pwn for you guys, so they keep me locked up...


WHEN I ESCAPE!! I WILL REAK HAVOC ON YOUR PRECIOUS MAPS!! YOU WILL FIND OUT THE TRUE MEANING OF RAPE A MAP!! BHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

*bounces around in the cage*
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: SwiftSpear on January 20, 2005, 04:54:19 PM
Quote
Technicly Im also half dead, as my mapping is too pwn for you guys, so they keep me locked up...


WHEN I ESCAPE!! I WILL REAK HAVOC ON YOUR PRECIOUS MAPS!! YOU WILL FIND OUT THE TRUE MEANING OF RAPE A MAP!! BHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

*bounces around in the cage*
[snapback]38892[/snapback]
scary  :blink:
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: That Annoying Kid on January 20, 2005, 11:32:34 PM
by "rape a map"

I think he means spam pipes  :p
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Malevolent on January 21, 2005, 04:39:21 AM
Yes, the above pictures will show you how deep Bill's fascination with pipes goes.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Mr.Bill on January 21, 2005, 03:13:14 PM
Ive went through almost the past 9 10 pages (when I joined up) and I realized something.


I really, just own at ns, entirely.

Carry on with your work
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: That Annoying Kid on January 26, 2005, 01:26:07 PM
Quote
Quote
Heh, don't worry.  We're only half dead. :p
[snapback]38809[/snapback]
I'm the dead half.  :(
[snapback]38854[/snapback]

Do you plan to ever come back alive, or should the portions you were going to attempt be consoldated amongst the other mappers?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on January 26, 2005, 02:36:48 PM
Quote
Quote
Quote
Heh, don't worry.  We're only half dead. :p
[snapback]38809[/snapback]
I'm the dead half.  :(
[snapback]38854[/snapback]

Do you plan to ever come back alive, or should the portions you were going to attempt be consoldated amongst the other mappers?
[snapback]39307[/snapback]

Deci and I have already divvied up the remaining portions.

Progress crawls, but remains a constant.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dark on January 26, 2005, 05:03:54 PM
well you have learn to crawl before you can walk so i guess that will do for now
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: That Annoying Kid on January 28, 2005, 10:20:48 AM
progess that is ever so small, but constant is more than enough.  :)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dark on January 28, 2005, 12:15:29 PM
true but it still would be nice see something play testable you know but other than that keep up a pace that works for you guys
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on January 28, 2005, 01:18:04 PM
Well, at the moment the map consists of ms, one hive, and several nodes.  I am currently working on the center hive and I'm not sure which room Dubb is currently working on.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: That Annoying Kid on February 06, 2005, 12:13:37 AM
:mellow:

be sure to find a way to put ABS's ramp in the map, as he said if we get to a playable state he would donate it :blush:
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on February 06, 2005, 12:47:18 AM
The basic center hive is now done.  I have handed the map off to Dubb, who only has about two rooms and some hallways to do.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on March 07, 2005, 02:39:12 PM
UPDATE: We've killed all the messy errors that we've gotten (leaf saw into leaf, etc etc, allocblock: full, etc etc), and now have a full map.  An ugly map, but a leak-free, three-hive-and-one-marine-start map.

Work continues at a breakneck pace and actual, honest progress has begun to rear its ugly head.  Expect more and expect it soon.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on March 07, 2005, 04:17:09 PM
I say we need to add a second marine start, just for good measure.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Diablus on March 08, 2005, 07:22:35 PM
you know, heres my two cents: Though you already have the map layout strict and sticking to the plan, I can't help but suggest alitte something for the final version after everythings finished.

I've come to think, how cool would it be to look out of the window of the complex/ship and see another part of the map (which would be inaccesible) and see another fight going on, something like this:
You look out the window into another window in another area of a complex and see some yellow glares of shooting from muzzleflashes around the pitch black room, along with some tracers and mabye few permenant bullet holes in the window. And every once in awhile a shadow quickly going by it. Then it would stop, then mabye 1-2 minutes later would repeat in a different pattern of firing and whatnot, then after thats done another 1-2 minutes later the first "battle" plays and so on(kindve like the snowfall in ayumi).

I think it would add a pretty cool touch to see what looks like another battle of mabye a different group of Marines exploring / eliminating the threat in other parts of the complex.

Just my input for the final version to add some cool effects  :D
what do ya think?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on March 08, 2005, 08:29:45 PM
Would be cool, though there are two problems.  The map is set underground, so being able to see another part of the facility wouldn't really make sense, and entities are at a premium on ns maps.  Still, would definitely be worth looking into.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Diablus on March 08, 2005, 10:10:29 PM
I'm pretty sure something *could* be worked out :p

Quote
and entities are at a premium on ns maps

what does that mean?  o_O
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on March 08, 2005, 10:23:24 PM
Quote
I'm pretty sure something *could* be worked out :p

Quote
and entities are at a premium on ns maps

what does that mean?  o_O
[snapback]42846[/snapback]

Basically, the Half-Life engine can only handle a certain amount of Entities (entities are just brushes that do something - be it a window, door, something breakable, a res node or a hive, et cetera et cetera.  Since NS maps are much more detailed than most other Half-Life-based maps, the entity limit of the engine is often reached witthout even realizing it.  We're doing well with entities so far, and have some to play with.

This could be possible, be it maybe light and sound from a cracked, broken sliding door.    We'll look into it, but we must first get the map in playtesting form.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: SwiftSpear on March 09, 2005, 01:28:30 AM
I've started mapping... could you maby assign me a small inconspicuous room somewhere?  just so I feel special?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on March 09, 2005, 06:03:32 AM
Quote
I've started mapping... could you maby assign me a small inconspicuous room somewhere?  just so I feel special?
[snapback]42853[/snapback]

Visit us in #lm-map and we'd be glad to sort something :)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: 2_of_8 on March 09, 2005, 10:39:50 AM
Assign him a secret room!
:o
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: That Annoying Kid on March 09, 2005, 01:21:18 PM
heeey, thats a good idea, were having a secret room anywhoo and swifteh can feel <3'ed

put the maya maya song in the secret room  :huh:
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Bijiy on March 20, 2005, 07:43:27 AM
Who do I have to toss peanuts at to get a latest copy of the rmf?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: That Annoying Kid on March 20, 2005, 01:47:03 PM
Quote
Who do I have to toss peanuts at to get a latest copy of the rmf?
[snapback]44024[/snapback]

#lm-map?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: SwiftSpear on March 20, 2005, 03:41:16 PM
Quote
Who do I have to toss peanuts at to get a latest copy of the rmf?
[snapback]44024[/snapback]
elephants?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Necrosis on March 20, 2005, 05:20:53 PM
I say you have 3 MS so that Bill has plenty of relocates to choose from.

That or one HUGE MS with walls that you can individually weld up in order to form different combinations of MS.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on March 20, 2005, 06:24:03 PM
We hang out in #lm-map.  We'll gladly give you a copy if you come in there.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: SlickWill on April 03, 2005, 07:49:37 AM
So how far along is this currently?  It sounds/looks awesome.  Do you guys have a general idea when it will be done?  (I know to add 2-3 months on it  :p .)

Btw:  Some of the nodes seem to be a little close to the hives, seems that each hive is a guarenteed 2 rts.  Don't know, but that seems a little tough on rines, especially since there doesn't seem to be nodes near them.  Just my two cents.  Keep up the good work.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: duherman on April 04, 2005, 07:40:56 AM
Yeah hows the map going?
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on April 06, 2005, 06:53:19 PM
If you ask Deci, he wouldn't respond because he's been doing that 'real Life' thing lately.

If you ask Bill, he'd say that Dubbilex needs to get off his lazy arse and make a hive.

If you ask me, I would say that I'm getting to it, damn it  :p


We've hit the fundamental limit of the Half-Life engine, brushwise, so we've cut down a lot and have rebuilt a lot.  In conclusion, if I get really inspired and Bill does too, we could have this done within the month.  And even then it will be an alpha, and as such will require a lot of testing and balancing.  Oh we're just getting started - spending a year making the flipping map is only the first part.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: SwiftSpear on April 07, 2005, 03:58:54 AM
Quote
If you ask Deci, he wouldn't respond because he's been doing that 'real Life' thing lately.

If you ask Bill, he'd say that Dubbilex needs to get off his lazy arse and make a hive.

If you ask me, I would say that I'm getting to it, damn it  :p


We've hit the fundamental limit of the Half-Life engine, brushwise, so we've cut down a lot and have rebuilt a lot.  In conclusion, if I get really inspired and Bill does too, we could have this done within the month.  And even then it will be an alpha, and as such will require a lot of testing and balancing.  Oh we're just getting started - spending a year making the flipping map is only the first part.
[snapback]45698[/snapback]
Well if you get it finished you will have pretty much the most hardcore playtest whores you have ever seen.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on April 07, 2005, 06:44:17 AM
I'm around!  Well, not really.  I've been spending a lot of time with my girlfriend and because of that I haven't had time to get on my computer at home.  I'd get on irc during class, but my beloved college blocks irc traffic.   :angry:
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Mac on April 07, 2005, 11:29:33 AM
Hmm, speaking of maps, there was a new one being played on the server last night that I didn't have. It was late and few people on and I was gonna jump in for a few rounds, but it was taking a while to download so I went to bed.

Looking forward to the map in progress. Best of luck with that, and God's speed. ^_^
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Decimator on April 24, 2005, 05:43:08 PM
Screenie!

This is a screenshot of the eastern hive:

(http://gamma.applepics.com/7/userfiles/426c213fac08b.jpg)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: LowCrawler on April 24, 2005, 05:46:40 PM
more like screenHAWT!
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Malevolent on April 24, 2005, 06:38:34 PM
Still lookin' good.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: SlickWill on April 25, 2005, 01:12:03 AM
I just joygasmed in my pants.  Now if the play is as good as it looks...I may joygasm in yours.    :p
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: 2_of_8 on April 25, 2005, 05:12:01 PM
Quote
I just joygasmed in my pants.  Now if the play is as good as it looks...I may joygasm in yours.    :p
[snapback]46960[/snapback]

*me warns to make the play as horrible, horrible as possible*
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Guspaz on April 26, 2005, 01:58:45 AM
Errm. Remind me never to invite SlickWill to a play.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Mr.Bill on April 26, 2005, 09:28:24 AM
After a long conversation... with myself, it has been decided slick is banned from the map. :-D
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: LowCrawler on April 28, 2005, 03:07:29 PM
the secret is going to pwn
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Bryan on May 26, 2005, 10:00:58 AM
*bump*


Bryan
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Legionnaired on May 30, 2005, 09:26:54 AM
Quote
Quote
If you ask Deci, he wouldn't respond because he's been doing that 'real Life' thing lately.

If you ask Bill, he'd say that Dubbilex needs to get off his lazy arse and make a hive.

If you ask me, I would say that I'm getting to it, damn it  :p


We've hit the fundamental limit of the Half-Life engine, brushwise, so we've cut down a lot and have rebuilt a lot.  In conclusion, if I get really inspired and Bill does too, we could have this done within the month.  And even then it will be an alpha, and as such will require a lot of testing and balancing.  Oh we're just getting started - spending a year making the flipping map is only the first part.
[snapback]45698[/snapback]
Well if you get it finished you will have pretty much the most hardcore playtest whores you have ever seen.
[snapback]45737[/snapback]

QFT
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: KitsuneInuYasha on June 05, 2005, 10:11:37 PM
If I'm... not too late. I could contribue. I'm... fair with hammer.

I have a Map in Progress ATM, but I'm sorta low on ideas for it, so I could put time into this if you'd like:)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on June 06, 2005, 12:59:51 PM
Quote
If I'm... not too late. I could contribue. I'm... fair with hammer.

I have a Map in Progress ATM, but I'm sorta low on ideas for it, so I could put time into this if you'd like:)
[snapback]50355[/snapback]

Join us in #lm-map sometime on IRC :)
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dubbilex on July 24, 2005, 02:56:15 PM
Bumped because this might be done eventually.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Mr.Bill on July 26, 2005, 10:21:05 AM
You know... since that last screanshot... not much has happened :-D



Its really annoying when the map is almost compleatly done.. and then you have to delete half of it.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: LowCrawler on July 26, 2005, 03:32:17 PM
im thinking i took those pictures for nothing.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dark on July 28, 2005, 08:32:50 AM
yes you did but we still  <3 you anyways :p
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: LowCrawler on July 28, 2005, 03:06:18 PM
(http://www.blackmage.org/lowcrawler/S2010076.jpg)


(http://www.blackmage.org/lowcrawler/S2010077.jpg)





I WILL NOT LET THEM GO TO WASTE.
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: 2_of_8 on July 28, 2005, 05:22:53 PM
*stabs eyes out with really sharp objects*
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: SwiftSpear on July 31, 2005, 01:37:50 AM
Quote
*stabs eyes out with really sharp objects*
[snapback]52534[/snapback]
Agreed.

[edit] never thought I would go blind before LC did...
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: Dark on August 01, 2005, 08:40:54 AM
my eyes are burning >_<
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: That Annoying Kid on July 16, 2006, 01:47:05 AM
I finally have my own computer

I'm down for the hardcore playtest
Title: Lm Community Made Map
Post by: 2_of_8 on July 19, 2006, 09:50:00 PM
Quote
Quote
*stabs eyes out with really sharp objects*
[snapback]52534[/snapback]
Agreed.

[edit] never thought I would go blind before LC did...
[snapback]52557[/snapback]
Oy.